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Post by Black Knight on Jul 19, 2006 9:31:02 GMT -5
Captain America Spitfire The (original) Torch Namor Union Jack Hawkeye Ms. Marvel Reserves: Thor Iron Man Hey redstatecap, If you are the guy from CBR's board, then I think you will find this board much more to your liking, everyone is respectful here. Cool team.
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Post by redstatecap on Jul 19, 2006 22:39:46 GMT -5
Yeah, it's me from CBR. I don't post there much anymore -- too many pinheads. I'm glad to hear that there's a more reasonable level of discussion here. You should check out the Alvaro comic boards. They're usually a pretty good place for discussion. Except the *cough*Avengers*cough* board, where you get banned for life for breathing a criticism of you-know-who. Oh, and call me an Invaders junkie! ;D
RSC
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 20, 2006 14:18:21 GMT -5
I liked the Invaders when Rich Buckler and then toward the end Paul Kupperberg (I think) drew them. I could not take the Frank Robbins-drawn issues despite the fact that the stories were pretty good. I tried out the recent take on the Invaders but didn't care for it, either.
It would be cool if Marvel took some of their classic characters and mixed them with a new generation -- DC has been very successful with that strategy with JSA. Nice homage to the past, keeps the character licenses active legally, and provides for some cool inter-genreational dynamics.
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Post by tschamp on Jul 20, 2006 16:05:01 GMT -5
Superman Batman Wonder Wo...oops wrong comic Captain America- Leader Iron Man- Techno Geek Hawkeye- Heart Spiderman- Soul Spiderwoman- Cap's love intrest. Ms Marvel- Cap's other love intrest Reservist: Wolverine- Kick Iron Man's ass about SHRA Wasp- Tony's love intrest. I know this isn't going to go over well.
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Post by redstatecap on Jul 21, 2006 0:20:24 GMT -5
Superman Batman Wonder Wo...oops wrong comic Captain America- Leader Iron Man- Techno Geek Hawkeye- Heart Spiderman- Soul Spiderwoman- Cap's love intrest. Ms Marvel- Cap's other love intrest Reservist: Wolverine- Kick Iron Man's ass about SHRA Wasp- Tony's love intrest. I know this isn't going to go over well. Bah! It sounds like you've gotten wrapped up in Mr. Bendis' evil tentacles. Spider-Woman as Cap's love interest? WOLVERINE on the team??? Please! RSC
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Post by Van Plexico on Jul 21, 2006 8:02:56 GMT -5
Hey, I like it. I had Cap and Carol together, in my MS MARVEL series for MV-1. www.avengersassemble.net/msmarveltpb.htmlI want to point out one thing, though-- folks keep listing Tony as the "techno geek guy" or whatever. That's not who Iron Man is! A Hank Pym is that. Iron Man is one of the super-heavyweights, the heavy hitters. He doesn't (or shouldn't) tinker around with gadgets-- he makes one super-powerful suit of armor and proceeds to beat you down with it. That's Iron Man.
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 21, 2006 11:47:38 GMT -5
Isn't Hank a biochemist? Marvel's writers through the years sure took him away from his roots. I wonder if when he was known as "Dr. Pym" and used a variation of the Pym Particles to shrink weaponry down to micro size, then pop it back to usable size to zap bad guys -- if that is when many fans assumed he invented the weapons he was using...?
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Post by tschamp on Jul 21, 2006 15:39:52 GMT -5
Superman Batman Wonder Wo...oops wrong comic Captain America- Leader Iron Man- Techno Geek Hawkeye- Heart Spiderman- Soul Spiderwoman- Cap's love intrest. Ms Marvel- Cap's other love intrest Reservist: Wolverine- Kick Iron Man's ass about SHRA Wasp- Tony's love intrest. I know this isn't going to go over well. Bah! It sounds like you've gotten wrapped up in Mr. Bendis' evil tentacles. Spider-Woman as Cap's love interest? WOLVERINE on the team??? Please! RSC Too defend myself, I think Bendis handleing of the group has be sub par. All I was thinking about intresting interaction and character devolpment. Think about Spiderwoman's past and Cap's past. They have a lot in common with each other. Wolverine is there just to piss off those that think he doesn't belong. If Rage can be a Avenger, Wolverine can be one. (Only if done the right way.)
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 21, 2006 17:15:38 GMT -5
I disagree. Wolverine has a defined past with another team. Rage was created for the Avengers before he started turning up in New Warriors. And, if all you want is an antagonist, how about Hawkeye or Quicksilver? Hercules (in a big dope kind of way)? Moondragon? Why do we need to reinvent the wheel?
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Post by tschamp on Jul 21, 2006 20:02:43 GMT -5
I would have used Hawkeye, but I decided go alive character. With the whole Hawkeye live/dead thing, I don't want to put him on my list.
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Post by simonwilliams on Jul 24, 2006 19:38:23 GMT -5
I have put a lot of thought into this very question many times, and I have multiple ideas to show for it. LOL. I personally loved the two teams two coasts thing we had going back in the day. I say we do that and name two teams!
Team one (East Coast) Captain America, Diamond Back (yea you heard me right!), Wonder Man (of course), Ms. Marvel, Scarlet Witch (hoping for a new love triangle here), Photon, and the Falcon. reserves- Thor and Iron Man
Lets face it with the big three all in the picture you can't really develop any other characters. I like to see them in the Avengers too, but I can live with them coming and going. I think the Avengers need to further develop some characters like Photon who have been a huge part of the group in the past, and I can see Sam Wilson getting along well with her. Diamond Back is my new entry for this team. I would like to see them respark the heat between her and Rogers.
Team two (West Coast) Hawkeye, Black Panther, Black Widow, The Shroud, Luke Cage, Spider-Woman (the current one), Yellowjacket reserves: Wasp & Moonknight
The hope with this team is to write a differant type of Avengers story. I think you could go low profile or covert with this team pretty easy. For those of you scratching your heads and asking who the shroud is, he is a character that can basically create his own darkness. He is also blind if I remember correctly, and an excellant fighter.
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Post by redstatecap on Jul 24, 2006 23:27:55 GMT -5
I have put a lot of thought into this very question many times, and I have multiple ideas to show for it. LOL. I personally loved the two teams two coasts thing we had going back in the day. I say we do that and name two teams! Team one (East Coast) Captain America, Diamond Back (yea you heard me right!), Wonder Man (of course), Ms. Marvel, Scarlet Witch (hoping for a new love triangle here), Photon, and the Falcon. reserves- Thor and Iron Man Lets face it with the big three all in the picture you can't really develop any other characters. I like to see them in the Avengers too, but I can live with them coming and going. I think the Avengers need to further develop some characters like Photon who have been a huge part of the group in the past, and I can see Sam Wilson getting along well with her. Diamond Back is my new entry for this team. I would like to see them respark the heat between her and Rogers. Team two (West Coast) Hawkeye, Black Panther, Black Widow, The Shroud, Luke Cage, Spider-Woman (the current one), Yellowjacket reserves: Wasp & Moonknight The hope with this team is to write a differant type of Avengers story. I think you could go low profile or covert with this team pretty easy. For those of you scratching your heads and asking who the shroud is, he is a character that can basically create his own darkness. He is also blind if I remember correctly, and an excellant fighter. I like the two-coast format. However, I think you should spread the big 3 out amongst them. It would be a problem to have one team be only the heavy-hitters and one team be the sneak-and-peekers. It would also be counter-productive from a sales point of view to have all three on one team and none on the other. You'd be torpedoing one book right from the start. One interesting possible solution is to have Thor be a "mobile reserve." He could be attached to both teams an on call for whichever one needed the heavy-hitter. You could then have an intelligent reason to have him in both books occasionally. You've got kind of a "Cap's Harem" theme going on squad one. I'll go one further. West Coast Team: Cap, Spitfire, Ms. Marvel, Diamondback, Sersi, Black Widow, and Scarlet Witch. Now that should be interesting. Permanent Reserve: Firestar Mobile Reserve: Thor This provides a well-balanced active team with the leader (Cap), two heavy-hitters (Ms. Marvel and Sersi), a magic-user(scarlet Witch), a speedster (Spitfire), and two low-end scout-types (Black Widow and Diamondback) It is also nicely balanced in that there are two blondes, two brunettes, and two redheads. ;D East Coast Team: Iron Man, Hawkeye, Photon (or whatever the hell Marvel is calling her this week) Wonder Man, Beast, Phoenix, and Vision Permanent Reserve: Quicksilver (no longer "Slow, Evil Quicksilver") Mobile Reserve: Thor This provides yada yada yada. RSC
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Post by jonsnow on Jul 25, 2006 5:53:08 GMT -5
Heya guys! I'm new to this site, and it seems to me that this is the right place to get an answer for something that i can't seem to remember... Years ago, the Avengers fought a group of villains that were... how shall i say this? chemically inspired. For the life of me i can´t remember the name of said group, nor where they appeared.
Can you guys help me?
Thanks!
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Post by jonsnow on Jul 25, 2006 5:59:36 GMT -5
Btw... Dream team...
Captain America Thor Iron Man Hulk Vision Sentry Hyperion Ares
Reserves: Union Jack Thin Man
Truly, Earth's Mightiest Heroes!
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Jul 25, 2006 8:22:35 GMT -5
Heya guys! I'm new to this site, and it seems to me that this is the right place to get an answer for something that i can't seem to remember... Years ago, the Avengers fought a group of villains that were... how shall i say this? chemically inspired. For the life of me i can´t remember the name of said group, nor where they appeared. Can you guys help me? Thanks! Hey, The Elements of Doom. They were returning from the "Nights of Wundagore" run, and found them in Russia on a chemical accident, i believe. One of the few issues where Quicksilver is at it's top (he was with the Inhumans at the time, mostly). It's on Avengers v1 188. By the way, don't i remember your nick name from Newsarama?
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Post by jonsnow on Jul 25, 2006 8:31:22 GMT -5
Ultron, that's it! They were amazing! Do you know what's their status? Yep, that's me from Newsarama! Hope you don't think nothing bad of me!
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Post by bobc on Jul 25, 2006 11:07:55 GMT -5
Man seeing that cover makes me sad. To think how far things have fallen...
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Jul 25, 2006 14:20:13 GMT -5
Ultron, that's it! They were amazing! Do you know what's their status? Yep, that's me from Newsarama! Hope you don't think nothing bad of me! The Elements were seriously underused, and i never remember seeing them again until the time i outright stopped reading comics, but apparently they were reused in comics like Thunderbolts at one point: www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/elementsofdoom.htmAs for Newsarama i mainly skim for the news and remember seing your name in there ;D 'Rama looks like a Joe Q & BENDIS! appreciation society, which i guess ends up with Matt Brady getting material to post from them, unfortunately, results in pretty much anyone with a critical view of them getting the boot, sooner, or later.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Jul 25, 2006 14:28:26 GMT -5
Man seeing that cover makes me sad. To think how far things have fallen... Avengers Assemble!This issue was writen by Bill Mantlo. I don't know if people know this story, but Bill Mantlo only started writing comics to pay for his law degree, since his real desired career was in law. He finally did, and thus dropped comic book writing. However, one day, as he did his usual jogging he was victim of a car hit and run that never stopped. He was condemned to a wheel chair, and lost most his functions, out of brain damage. It's very sad. He wrote the first comic book i've ever read, and a great run in Hulk, Micronauts, Rom the spacenight, and so many other comics. Life, sometimes, is so cruel.
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Post by jonsnow on Jul 25, 2006 15:26:10 GMT -5
But do you know, for my part i do enjoy what Q & B have been doing... and i have been reading comics for over twenty years, so i guess maybe i could be pissed at some of the decisions being made. I love the Avengers, always have, always will. For me they are the premiere super-team in any universe, the JLA has nothing on them. What gets to me is that of late, and this is Pre-Bendis, they've not been EMH anymore. So i would go for a lineup that reflects that. They are discipline, efficiency, and above all, power. While i really look forward to a new Avengers title, and though i love Bendis, i'd have prefered that this one went to someone else. Casey has proven himself worthy of it. Perhaps after EMH2? Alas, i still say that the perfect guy for Avengers is Geoff Johns, and it's amazing how nothing he's written before or since his run really comes close to what he did there. Artwise, though i love Cho, maybe this could've gone to Travel Foreman, or Trevor Hairsine.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Jul 26, 2006 4:45:29 GMT -5
Problem is both Q and B seem to be clearly in it for the money. And that's ok, but it's not ok for me as a costumer when that money is made out of providing me a product i consider inferior.
If Q and Cº truly wanted a decent Avengers book, they'd get Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern, or even Slott, and partner them with Alan Davis, or unfortunately, one of the many Pérez like artists DC Comics has since stroke as exclusives for years and years while Marvel was at sleep.
Unfortunately after the job Geof Johns pulled in the few issues of the Avengers he did, he left the clear impression on me that was not the man for the job. He seems to be as guilty in this regard of shock, sex, death, blood, gimmickery as substitutes for quality writing and plotting as Q, Millar, BENDIS! and company.
It just seems to me that they clearly are more interested in cheap fast cash solution than a quality product, and in a shorter gain, than a longer, more quality constructed, vision of the future.
The people at Marvel know full well what they need to do to get Avengers back and running, they just don't want to, because, at this time, they're making more money doing something else that takes a lot less work.
Kurt Busiek left when this all started, and he voluntarily left, when the Ultimates gimmick came along, then came the Disassembled gimmick, then came the NewVengers gimmick, then came the HOM gimmick, then came the NewVengers Disassembled gimmick, then came the Civil War gimmick, and now, finally, comes the MightyVengers gimmick.
3$ a pop and with lot's of them alternacovers.
And that's what this is all about.
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 26, 2006 10:42:53 GMT -5
You are cynical, Ultron, but alas I believe you are right on the mark on this one. You know, while reading your post it occurs to me (and maybe this isn't some great epiphany -- maybe you've all sensed it) that today's comics companies look at our favorite titles as finite, while the consumers look at them as infinite. For example, back in the mid-80's, DC I believe honestly felt their universes were in need of a makeover. Hence, Crisis on Infinite Earths. While controversial at the time, I think most people who read some DC might agree that the changes were improvements. However, after having Infinite Crisis a few months ago, I am convinced that that series served the purpose only to market new books and new looks for certain characters. I didn't find it particularly good, although the story was believable coming off the end events of the 1985 Crisis. But I would definitely say this last "event" was driven by dollars and not necessarily the "big picture" that is the DC Universe.
Outing Spider-Man? Killing Sue Richards? These are going to be tough things to "return to normal" certainly in the short-term. I just wonder if in the Marvel editorial room there are naysayers to some of Joe Q's proposals, or if there are just a bunch of "yes men" sitting around. If so, that is hardly creativity in action.
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Post by redstatecap on Jul 26, 2006 12:36:36 GMT -5
I agree with all of what Ultron and Doug are saying. To put it another way, there is currently way too much cynicism and way too little love at Marvel right now -- love for the characters and the history. When I read some of the older books I could tell that the writers and editors were committed to writing good stories that generally fit within history, and writing good characters that the fans could identify with and care for. Now days it's much more about the gimmick, the shock, the re-boot. That's not a good sign. Cynicism will make Marvel money in the short term. No doubt about that. But -- IMO -- only love will produce lifetime fans that will keep buying.
RSC
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 26, 2006 14:52:19 GMT -5
Remember when it was a big deal to celebrate the 100th, or 200th (etc.) issue of a comic? Does that happen often anymore?? Today, in agreement with your comment about reboots, we see #1's every few years. Avengers will have seen four #1's in the space of about 10 years (or less) by the time Mighty Avengers hits the stands. That's Vol. II, Vol. III, NA, and now MA. And, perhaps the most blatant slap-in-the-face to consumers was when Marvel switched numbering midstream when they noticed a 500th issue was about to come out -- remember when books carried TWO numbers on the covers?
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Post by Yellowjacket on Jul 28, 2006 5:52:59 GMT -5
It seems older reader (me too) most always dislike these (entirely unnecessary) new starts of old series. Here in Germany it´s even worse, way worse. In 40 years (since 1966) Marvel Comics published in Germany we had only 4 books reaching the 1xx´s (with Avengers reaching once exactly 100 - an no issue more) and one Spider-Man book reaching the 2xx`s.
Of course, this is due to different publishers over the years. But things did even go worse with the Panini publisher in the last ten years. Countless new starts of Spider-Man series, X-Men as well. Changing of formats within one (US-)series - normal books, then books with two issues, then books with four issues, then tradepaperbacks thick as essentials and so on. The last book of FF lasted only 3(!) issues. Simply terrible, though I have to admit this is due the fact we haven´t got enough buyers over here.
What I don´t get with Marvel USA - who (and why) decides the numbering of the books. What I mean is, FF and Avengers getting back their old countings was great. But why, for example, did they drop the additional Volume 1 numbering (which was better than nothing) when Brubaker took recently over Daredevil? A problem with Diamond? Doesn´t Quesada like double numberings? Are new readers discouraged by double numberings?
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Post by Van Plexico on Jul 28, 2006 18:57:44 GMT -5
I echo the remarks about Bill Mantlo. I have praised his work often in past years, including in a post in the Iron Man board just now.
He was one of the fastest comics writers ever. He wrote so many Marvel comics, back in the Seventies, because he could just sit down and bang them out on the typewriter. He was a fountain of great ideas and had (apparently) an encyclopedic knowledge of Marvel characters and settings, far and wide. See my Iron Man remarks for all the various characters and places he managed to squeeze into just a couple of years on that book.
I remember an old, sort of dark joke that went, "Stevie Ray Vaughan is dead and we can't even get Jon Bon Jovi near a helicopter," and it makes me think of Mantlo...
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Post by bobc on Jul 28, 2006 19:41:09 GMT -5
That is the funniest joke I ever heard! LOL
That being said--can you all answer two questions for me:
1. What did Bill Mantlo write of note? I recall his name but can't think of a thing he did--I was never into writers like I was artists
2. SUE RICHARDS IS DEAD? Huh? Please tell me you're joking.
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 28, 2006 23:59:57 GMT -5
Mantlo wrote a lot of Marvel Team-Ups, I believe. That is where I most know him from.
There is currently an FF mini going on where I believe the major premise is that Sue will die. The book is called "A Death In the Family".
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Post by Van Plexico on Jul 29, 2006 10:42:43 GMT -5
The joke, I now recall, was from Denis Leary.
Regarding what Bill Mantlo wrote, it's probably a better question to ask what at Marvel he didn't write, back in the Seventies. I loved his runs on IRON MAN (around 90-120) and MICRONAUTS (the first few years, at least, with gorgeous Michael Golden art). I think he wrote a little of everything, though.
But I'm afraid to say off the top of my head, because I always confuse his work with another favorite of that era, Doug Moench (MOON KNIGHT, SHOGUN WARRIORS, SHANG CHI, etc.).
For instance, one of them wrote ROM, but I couldn't swear which. Though I think it was Mantlo.
I was always wondering why neither of them got to write AVENGERS...
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Post by Yellowjacket on Jul 31, 2006 8:41:19 GMT -5
There is currently an FF mini going on where I believe the major premise is that Sue will die. The book is called "A Death In the Family". A mini series? "A death in the family" is a oneshot. And yes, Sue does die. But no, it´s not our Sue, it´s the Sue of an alternate reality. I´m very dissapointed with the story. Of course, a character like her won´t probably die. But the hype was huge and they even skipped the regular FF book that month. All that for a quite dissapointing story.
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