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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 17, 2007 17:22:12 GMT -5
I have a question. Wasn't pennance one of the team members who didn't require restraints? Yet at their board meeting he is bound like the other hard cases present.
Then there is Bullseye,... man, he makes Osborne look like a Sunday School Teacher. He's nuts!
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Post by balok on Mar 17, 2007 19:33:21 GMT -5
Penance is Speedball with psychological issues, right? I know he registered, but I think he's working off his Stamford debt (otherwise he'd be in prison) with the T-Bolts. I'd imagine the fitted him with a set of nanites and whatever other restraints they could devise.
But issue #111 about made me throw up, so I quit reading the book at that point. I'd really love to know what Kurt Busiek thinks of his creation now. I'll bet most of it couldn't get past the board censor.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 17, 2007 19:35:41 GMT -5
I'll have to re-read 111 but I'm pretty sure as they were boarding their plane they said that speedball didn't require restraints.
and yep, it's speedball with issues
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 18, 2007 13:57:24 GMT -5
Balok, you're doing 'that thing' again.
Lots of people who like a creator and hate an event just assume that because they like the creator, said creator must HATE the event. Lots of people did it with Joss Whedon and Ed Brubaker with Civil War- to be proved completely wrong in both cases.
Honestly, I think Kurt Busiek probably thinks 'Wow, that's a very different take. I wonder how it's going.'
Anyway, loved Thunderbolts once again. This has to be the second most fun book I read right now after FNS! It's evil, it knows it's evil, and it enjoys it! 9/10
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 18, 2007 16:41:52 GMT -5
Evil is right,...you've always known bullseye is a badguy. No question. But the development of his character in this book. I can just see coming home to find him waiting. He is an absolute looney-toon. It takes a lot to make Norman Osborne look sane. I think he even shook osborne up in his rant about being God's only friend.
whew.
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Post by balok on Mar 19, 2007 15:04:09 GMT -5
Balok, you're doing 'that thing' again. Lots of people who like a creator and hate an event just assume that because they like the creator, said creator must HATE the event. Lots of people did it with Joss Whedon and Ed Brubaker with Civil War- to be proved completely wrong in both cases. Honestly, I think Kurt Busiek probably thinks 'Wow, that's a very different take. I wonder how it's going.' That's why I said "I'll bet" and not "I'm certain" I have read much of what Busiek has written, and I have participated in a mailing list where he participated (for his Astro City book). More goes into it than just "liking" him. For example, do you know why he ended his tenure on Avengers? Because he knew that when Marvel launched Ultimates, he'd be playing second fiddle to a book created to be "kewl." Now, I liked Ultimates as a different take on the Avengers. The point is that one can begin to conjure the shape of someone's thoughts from what they say. Busiek is a very Silver Age creator, and T-Bolts is a very Iron Age book. You're right that he wouldn't likely overtly criticize it, because when he doesn't like something he keeps it very low key. But as the creator of T-Bolts I'd expect he has more of an attachment to them, and I'll bet someone with a Silver Age comics mindset wouldn't really like seeing his creation made Iron Age. YMMV.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 19, 2007 15:30:13 GMT -5
You know, since they are collecting crazy-evil types for the team, why wouldn't they bring back joystick? She and Bulls-eye would make a great romantic angle. Imagine the crazy babies those two would put out.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 19, 2007 18:17:42 GMT -5
Actually, when you say "Knew", you imply that it came true. He was afraid of that very thing, but it didn't happen and it's kinda silly to say it did. Even pre-New Avengers, Avengers was already a more mainline book than Ultimates and the only way Ultimates could POSSIBLY be construed as "first fiddle" is the frenzy of the initial months or in sales. It's silly to say otherwise. He had every right to think that would happen, but it really didn't come true.
And Ultimates wasn't created to be "kewl", whatever you may think. It was provided to be a modern-day take on the Avengers and personally I think it's been easily the best Avengers title to come out since the Busiek run.
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Post by balok on Mar 19, 2007 18:31:18 GMT -5
You're right, but at the time he made those comments, he had no way of knowing that's how it would unfold. Presumably, he concluded that based on the insider information available to him at that time, and made his decision accordingly.
If you read Astro City, which (as a wholly creator owned book) is probably closest to Busiek's real worldview, you will see a Silver Age approach in most of the stories. Even the darker stories. And the theme of redemption Busiek explored when he created Thunderbolts sort of reflects that, too. The modern Thunderbolks, so far, do not appear to be about redemption. They appear to be a gang of thugs turned loose to beat up people the CSA doesn't like. That's pretty far from where Busiek originally took the T-Bolts.
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