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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 16, 2006 21:52:39 GMT -5
How do you say “Zemo”?
The Baron Zemo characters are German. The name doesn’t look all that German to me. My guess is that when Lee and Kirby created Helmut’s father Heinrich, they weren’t too worried about the finer points of authentic German names. They probably pronounced the Z-name “ZEE-mo”.
I tend to pronounce it more like “TSEH-mo”, under the theory that a German name thus spelt would be thus pronounced. Of course, it’s possible that even if my imagined pronunciation is correct, an educated German with that name might anglicize its pronunciation to something like “ZEE-mo” when speaking English.
You say “ZEE-mo”—I say “TSEH-mo”—but let’s not call the whole thing off. How do you say it?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 17, 2006 10:55:08 GMT -5
...I say 'Zee- mo'. But then, I don't exactly think of it as a Germanic name, I just think of it as... Zemo's name
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 17, 2006 16:08:20 GMT -5
Zee-mo. Never gave it much thought, to be honest.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 17, 2006 16:47:52 GMT -5
Zee-mo. Never gave it much thought, to be honest. I swear to God, dlw66 makes a career out of watching me embark upon a rant and then briefly and effectively and far more clearly summing it all up in like a sentence. At least this time my rant wasn't so much a rant, more an incomprehensible spiel. Oh, he also tends to get into arguments with me but, y'know, he summarises me at other times.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 17, 2006 19:38:43 GMT -5
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 17, 2006 21:17:53 GMT -5
I try to be your conscious and your clarifier, my British comrade...
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 17, 2006 23:10:28 GMT -5
I was thinking today that the name “Zemo” might have been influenced by “Nemo”, the famous submarine captain from Jules Verne’s 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Mysterious Island. Visually, “Zemo” is “Nemo” with the N on its side! “Nemo” is a Latin word for “nobody”; it’s a great nom de guerre for Verne’s rogue who has left his past life behind, but it’s also a good fit for Lee and Kirby’s villain without a face. In English, “Nemo” is usually pronounced “NEE-mo”, making “ZEE-mo” a naturally analogous pronunciation. The Latin word would be pronounced like “NAY-mo”, making a Germanesque “TSAY-mo” a good baronial analogue. (I had suggested “TSEH-mo” earlier, but perhaps “TSAY-mo” is a better rendering of the sound I had in mind. English vowels often have glide sounds that can complicate cross-linguistic pronunciation comparisons…) In French (the language Verne wrote his novels in), the captain’s name is pronounced like “nay-MO”, but I don’t endorse word-final stress for the baron’s name.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 18, 2006 7:44:52 GMT -5
You go, Sergeant Semantics!!!
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Oct 18, 2006 10:22:20 GMT -5
I've always pronounced it "Throat worbbler mangove" , but I grew up watching too much Monty Python so what do I know.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 18, 2006 11:00:18 GMT -5
I try to be your conscious and your clarifier, my British comrade... I assume this is to me, if it's not I apologize! I believe you mean conscience, no? Oh,and BRITISH? I take great offence at you identifying me with the oppressors of my nation. No, I'm of the small but infinitely better island next to Britain known as Eire, Erin, the emerald isle. (Or, y'know. Ireland.)
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Post by von Bek on Oct 18, 2006 13:17:15 GMT -5
Night Phantom, wie viele Sprachen sprichts Du? Deutsh, português, tem mais? Doc, are you from Ireland?! My whole life I tought you to be from Latveria!!!
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 18, 2006 14:00:53 GMT -5
Ah, Doom, I stand corrected!! On my grammar as well as my international assumptions! I must have picked up the wrong accent...
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Oct 18, 2006 14:17:35 GMT -5
That explains the green cape.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 18, 2006 16:29:37 GMT -5
Night Phantom, wie viele Sprachen sprichts Du? Deutsh, português, tem mais? Doc, are you from Ireland?! My whole life I tought you to be from Latveria!!! You were mistaken. Doom has merely lived in latveria, he was born in better places It does indeed. Look closely and you'll see an embroidered shamrock pattern Ah well, I shall attempt to rectify that. <Ahem> Ach, top of the mornin' te ye, young sir! 'Tis a grand day, so 'tis, begorrah!
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 18, 2006 23:06:06 GMT -5
Night Phantom, wie viele Sprachen sprichts Du? Deutsh, português, tem mais? Alas, so dispiriting do I find the ongoing struggle to coax my native English into adequately expressing my thoughts that I cannot summon the courage to undertake an enumeration of other languages that I have essayed and failed to master…
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 19, 2006 9:36:00 GMT -5
Much better Doom. See, you were just writing yourself out-of-character!!
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 19, 2006 11:07:31 GMT -5
Much better Doom. See, you were just writing yourself out-of-character!! ...And people wonder why I'm convinced fans will cite anything unusual as out of character
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Post by Yellowjacket on Oct 29, 2006 5:30:18 GMT -5
Oops, here I am. I was thinking today that the name “Zemo” might have been influenced by “Nemo”, the famous submarine captain from Jules Verne’s 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Mysterious Island. Visually, “Zemo” is “Nemo” with the N on its side! “Nemo” is a Latin word for “nobody”; it’s a great nom de guerre for Verne’s rogue who has left his past life behind, but it’s also a good fit for Lee and Kirby’s villain without a face. That´s an interesting analogy. Personally, in point of character, I can´t think of Nemo as an archetype for Zemo but for the name itself it could be possible. After all Heinrich Zemo is all evil, which doesn´t apply for Nemo. Certainly they were looking for a cool sounding name and with Zemo they did find one indeed. In English, “Nemo” is usually pronounced “NEE-mo”, making “ZEE-mo” a naturally analogous pronunciation. The Latin word would be pronounced like “NAY-mo”, making a Germanesque “TSAY-mo” a good baronial analogue. (I had suggested “TSEH-mo” earlier, but perhaps “TSAY-mo” is a better rendering of the sound I had in mind. English vowels often have glide sounds that can complicate cross-linguistic pronunciation comparisons…) With "Tseh-mo" you are very close to the right German pronunciation. But your first vowel is "too long", in German it sounds more like "Tse-mo" - both vowels equally long and shortly accented. And I´m not sure "Tse" pronounces the German "Ze" entirely right, because "Ze" is in German (very) harsh and short spoken. And to end this little education. The subject "Wie sagt man "Zemo"?" would correctly be '"Wie spricht man "Zemo" aus?'. Which of course translates into '"How do you pronounce "Zemo"?'.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 29, 2006 9:14:16 GMT -5
Oops, here I am. And we’re glad! I didn’t want to delve deeply into the fine points of achieving a nativelike accent in German or the other tongues I mentioned. My concern is, If we treat “Zemo” as an authentic German name, what is the best reasonable way for English speakers to pronounce it within English sentences using their usual English phonology while still recalling the authentic German pronunciation? We shouldn’t expect people to come up with vowels and consonants outside their usual English inventory when speaking English (even if they speak German too), and so substitutions like “ts” for German “z” strike me as quite reasonable. By the same token, when I say my offline mortal name in another language, I don’t pronounce it 100% like in English; for example, the R’s always end up sounding different. Und wie sprichst Du „Zemo“ auf Englisch aus?
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Post by Yellowjacket on Oct 29, 2006 13:55:23 GMT -5
I didn’t want to delve deeply into the fine points of achieving a nativelike accent in German or the other tongues I mentioned. My concern is, If we treat “Zemo” as an authentic German name, what is the best reasonable way for English speakers to pronounce it within English sentences using their usual English phonology while still recalling the authentic German pronunciation? We shouldn’t expect people to come up with vowels and consonants outside their usual English inventory when speaking English (even if they speak German too), and so substitutions like “ts” for German “z” strike me as quite reasonable. By the same token, when I say my offline mortal name in another language, I don’t pronounce it 100% like in English; for example, the R’s always end up sounding different. I understand. You´re substituion "ts" is fine and I know that the German "z" isn´t that easy for an English tongue. My family name is "Zipperling" and my father told me (he was quite a few times in the States) that it is pronounced like "Sipperling". I wouldn´t have a problem with that and I even think this is still trying to recall the authentic German pronunciation as you said. Und wie sprichst Du „Zemo“ auf Englisch aus? That´s a good point. I think I take some liberties here. I´m reading English quite fluently (though not nearly as good as my mother tongue) which means I´m just reading it, I do not translate into German. When reading "Zemo" it sounds for myself like "se-mo" just like I would introduce myself as "Sipperling". But for "se" I´m using the German "e" which isn´t pronounced the same way in English (sorry, but I don´t know a better phonetic explanation). I´m not sure, if you pronounce your "tse" with the German or the Englisch "e", but either way it is fine for me.
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