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Post by bendiszombie on Apr 9, 2007 16:22:14 GMT -5
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 16:25:53 GMT -5
well, at least they are sending in ninjas in Technicolor
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 16:54:43 GMT -5
I'm going to copy paste what someone else put up at CBR for this:
"Spiderman: Actually, im registered, so you can only really do me for aiding and abetting,right?
Wolverine: me too! Mutants Rock.
Spider-woman: i didnt sign up, but i WAS a SHIELD agent, meaning you've got all my info too. Does that mean im exempt?
Doctor Strange: No, im Exempt. Your just aiding and abetting like the others.
Luke Cage: Sweet Christmas, im the same as Spider-Woman!Aiding and abetting for me too!
Iron Fist:...ah crap...."
...Seriously though, looks pretty good though I could care less about ninjas. IGN advance reviewed it and gave it three stars, though they raised a good point- Doc Strange can kick all kinds of ass now but he can't teleport them all to Japan?
Though with Lenil Yu's characters, not only does Doctor Strange appear to have the mother of all hangovers, not only does it seem that thank GOD Luke Cage has unbreakable skin because if he nicked his arm a blood vessel or seven would burst, but as the entire New Avengers go to battle position against ninjas he decides to... well, I'm not sure what he's doing, perhaps firing his fists at them?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 17:19:24 GMT -5
Also, does anyone else notice that Iron Fist has a bad case of Jay Leno jaw?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 17:21:08 GMT -5
Question; does Wolverine DIE since his power is negated and he has a load of poisonous adamantium in his body?
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 9, 2007 17:50:13 GMT -5
Oh my eyes.... that art is hideous. NO...no more ninjas! Make it stop!
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 18:05:03 GMT -5
Who is battling who on that cover anyway? And why that selection? Okay, we clearly have:
Wolverine vs Iron Man (Er... yeah, tough luck Wolvie) Ares vs Ronin (Poor, poor, poor Ronin) Ms Marvel vs Spider-Woman (Ouch for you, Spider-Woman)
But that's where it gets bewildering.
Doctor Strange appears to be fighting the space above Wonder Man as Luke Cage faces off with the space below. It looks more like Wonder Man is facing Cage though (in which case, Cage hasn;t a hope in Hell) At first glance, Spider-Man is facing Sentry but then we actually see the Wasp attacking him, so I give that round to Spidey. Instead, it seems Sentry is facing... IRON FIST? This is just ridiculous.
Then we have Black Widow, staring at nothing, like Doc Strange apparantly.
Naturally it would have been ridiculous to expect them to all actually be facing someone, or have remotely similar power sets. I mean clearly you want to send Doc Strange against NOBODY rather than, say, Iron Man or Sentry or even Wonder Man...
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Post by thew40 on Apr 9, 2007 18:19:42 GMT -5
I don't really see how Wolverine's powers could be negated. He's a Mutant. It's in his genes.
That being said, I think the negation field (as it were) may also cause some sort dizziness or confusion.
But yeah, Doctor Strange does indeed kick ass.
Oh, and Bendiszombie, awesome avatar, buddy. Purely awesome.
~W~
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 9, 2007 18:26:03 GMT -5
I think Doctor Strange looks like Wolverine. At the end of a really bad day. I don't really see how Wolverine's powers could be negated. He's a Mutant. It's in his genes. Mutates like Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, and Luke Cage also have their powers in their genes.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 9, 2007 19:00:11 GMT -5
In the X-Men animated series, Wolverine had his powers negated 2 or 3 times and never died, despite being in considerable pain everytime he had to "snikt" his claws. In Genosha they even had some collars to negate mutant powers. Has this ever happened in the comics ?
As for the other heroes, in Contest of Champions II, the Brood deprived them of their powers in a very similar way, basically blocking the areas of their brains that control them.
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Post by balok on Apr 9, 2007 19:00:22 GMT -5
Observations: - I can't stand Yu's art. If I liked the book otherwise it would be enough to send me packing. ALL his characters have rock-like jaws, except the chicks, who look like bony parodies of real women.
- A character called Forge once devised a mutant inhibitor that briefly stripped Storm of her powers, and he worked for the government. While "catch all" inhibitor tech strains credulity at least there is precedent, and... most of the powers these characters have strain credulity.
- Although I have heard adamantium described as poisonous, in order to have the durability it has, it would have to interact poorly, if at all, in chemical processes. Otherwise it would rust, corrode, be dissolved by acid, etc. So I'd think its poisonous properties might take some time to take effect. But even if not...
- ...Iron Man probably doesn't care. If Wolverine died he would chalk it up to him resisting arrest, as he did Goliath and Typeface and others. Remember, this is the man who thought the SHRA was such a good idea he was willing to start a war with Atlantis and commit wholesale violations of basic civil rights to scare people into registering.
- Aiding and abetting SHRA violators is probably covered under the SHRA. Most times when something is against the law, the code contains provisions forbidding people from helping others do it, as well. If true, then the constellation of crimes these folks have committed kind of does fall under the general rubric of "SHRA violations."
- There goes Spider-Man's trust in and use for Iron Man. Iron Man ain't never getting that back. And Spidey's right - it's a vile trick.
- I would find it deeply amusing if Dr. Strange sent them all to, say, Nightmare's realm for a time. The effect of that visit on Sentry's fragile psyche would provide amusement for some time to come. Fortunately, Strange has better ethics than that. All, well, we can dream, can't we?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 20:54:45 GMT -5
Maybe Dr Strange actually sent all of US into nightmares realm.
think about that
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 9, 2007 21:28:22 GMT -5
It's really hard for me to get past Yu's scritchy-scratchy art and look at this with an open mind. But there's no denying that with the exception of Dr. Strange, the NA team is grossly out-matched by the MA team.
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 10, 2007 1:44:08 GMT -5
More ninjas. Lots more ninjas. Yay. Judas Priest, that art is horrible! Someone please grab and icepick and stab me in both eyes so the pain will go away. And why do I get the feeling that Dr. Strange just cast "Monster Summoning VI" and will follow it up with "Fireball" and "Chain Lightning," or perhaps "Mordenkainen's Sword?"
RSC
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Post by thew40 on Apr 10, 2007 2:32:12 GMT -5
You know, I just remembered. During 2000's "Mutants No More" storyline, the X-Men lost their powers for a short amount of time. Wolverine did indeed have "Adamantium poisoning," but it was a slow process. The Mutants had their powers gone for 7-10 days and he was still kicking.
So, ignore my earlier post.
~W~
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 10, 2007 4:38:24 GMT -5
[/li][li]...Iron Man probably doesn't care. If Wolverine died he would chalk it up to him resisting arrest, as he did Goliath and Typeface and others. Remember, this is the man who thought the SHRA was such a good idea he was willing to start a war with Atlantis and commit wholesale violations of basic civil rights to scare people into registering.[/quote] Waaaaay too far, even for you Balok. You know better than anyone he couldn't have prevented Typaceface's death (He was half a city away!) and Goliath's death WAS resisting arrest. And let's not forget it's less "thought the SHRA was a good idea" and more "Knew humankind would be EXTINCT if he failed". And wholesale violations of human rights is eithere a gross exageration or a lie but I have enough faith in you to believe it's the former. [/li][li]There goes Spider-Man's trust in and use for Iron Man. Iron Man ain't never getting that back. And Spidey's right - it's a vile trick.[/quote] Yeah I'm pretty sure that was gone some time ago- not sure if it was after the Thunderbolts, or maybe when they fought. I can tell you I doubt Iron Man trusts Peter after Petey was among those foully ambushing him at what was supposed to be a peaceful truce.
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 10, 2007 12:23:33 GMT -5
More ninjas. Lots more ninjas. Yay. Judas Priest, that art is horrible! Someone please grab and icepick and stab me in both eyes so the pain will go away. And why do I get the feeling that Dr. Strange just cast "Monster Summoning VI" and will follow it up with "Fireball" and "Chain Lightning," or perhaps "Mordenkainen's Sword?" RSC ;D At least he didn't cast Faerie Fire.......
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 10, 2007 12:42:34 GMT -5
Why, do they yet Yu draw, it is horrible. I stand corrected it is worse then the New Warriors limited with the horrible cartoon art.
Also, more ninjas, please, can I have another 20 issues of ninjas. *sigh*
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Post by balok on Apr 10, 2007 17:38:36 GMT -5
More ninjas. Lots more ninjas. Yay. Judas Priest, that art is horrible!Yes. Yes, it is. And why do I get the feeling that Dr. Strange just cast "Monster Summoning VI" and will follow it up with "Fireball" and "Chain Lightning," or perhaps "Mordenkainen's Sword?" I believe you meant to say, "Acheron's Assistance", "Faltinian Firebolts", "Etherion's Electrical Elegy", and "Balthakk's Battling Blade." Since the Marvel Universe isn't a signatory of the Open Gaming Treaty (version 1.0a) of 1997, of course...
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Post by balok on Apr 10, 2007 17:46:16 GMT -5
Waaaaay too far, even for you Balok. You know better than anyone he couldn't have prevented Typaceface's death (He was half a city away!) and Goliath's death WAS resisting arrest. Both of them died resisting arrest. It isn't about how they died, but about whether the "new and improved" Iron Man cares if his enemies, even those who once upheld the law, die. He's an "ends justify the means" sort of person now, and the classic statement of that ethic is "can't make an omelet without breaking eggs." People like Goliath, and Typeface, Spider-Man and Cage ... they're just eggs to him. He exploited the death of a man who was his friend for decades to lure former friends into a trap! The man's on a slow elevator to Hell. Or maybe not so slow. And let's not forget it's less "thought the SHRA was a good idea" and more "Knew humankind would be EXTINCT if he failed". A humankind that forgets respect for the basic rights of an individual in a mad charge towards imagined safety deserves only extinction. And wholesale violations of human rights is eithere a gross exageration or a lie but I have enough faith in you to believe it's the former. I'm referring here to the early days of the Civil War, when his enemies were imprisoned without trial or access to legal counsel, in an alien and dangerous dimension. Those things are basic civil rights, and Iron Man elected to ignore them. Yeah I'm pretty sure that was gone some time ago- not sure if it was after the Thunderbolts, or maybe when they fought. I can tell you I doubt Iron Man trusts Peter after Petey was among those foully ambushing him at what was supposed to be a peaceful truce. And once Spider-Man and the New Avengers start telling people what Tony's really about, NO ONE will trust him. What effect will that have on his ability to run SHIELD, one wonders?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 10, 2007 20:06:20 GMT -5
the thing about your last point is this. Spider-man DID tell everybody. It didn't make a difference.
I may be about to get slapped down for this but there is one thing about the MAJORITY of America. We are willing to turn a blind eye to the things we don't want to know in order to feel safe.
We know that many of our politicians are corrupt and almost always willingly listen to feeble explanations in order to feel secure with a government.
I don't think Spidey's actionw did or will make a difference, because the Marvel world is starting to imitate ours a little too closely.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 10, 2007 21:41:00 GMT -5
Indeed... I'm hoping... can only hope that, at some point, it will be too much & will cause a backlash...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 10, 2007 21:44:40 GMT -5
so you're hoping for the straw that breaks the camels back? me too, but I don't know what it'll take.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 11, 2007 3:36:35 GMT -5
Going back to the preview, a point for each side: Good: Looks like Dr. Strange may make the difference, which is appreciated since he is the only one with non-physical powers in the group. Bad: The art ! I was under the impression that this fight would have continued somewhere else, like Mighty Avengers or Fallen Son, so was hoping for a better art
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Post by balok on Apr 11, 2007 13:52:25 GMT -5
the thing about your last point is this. Spider-man DID tell everybody. It didn't make a difference. You raise a valid point that Spider-Man's credibility isn't high, and certainly Tony will be using Stark Enterprises' PR department to spin this the way he wants it seen. But even small revelations can eventually create avalanches. If, for example, Armory came forward and described her experience at the Stamford base, and a few other folks talked about what they knew, the who rotten house of cards would come crashing down. I may be about to get slapped down for this but there is one thing about the MAJORITY of America. We are willing to turn a blind eye to the things we don't want to know in order to feel safe. You're right, of course, because most people fail to realize that the world is an inherently unsafe place. We can take reasonable actions within the constraints of respect for individuals to foster safety, but we can never eliminate peril entirely and it is foolish to try. It is dangerous to try when doing so sacrifices the rights of individuals, for they are the vital building blocks of which any successful society is formed. Make enough of them unhappy, and they'll get together and restructure society to their liking. And the fastest way you can make a man unhappy enough to do violence is to take his freedoms. It make take time to build up a head of steam, but history shows us that it always happens.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 11, 2007 15:35:24 GMT -5
well put.
and most of the population aren't willing to make those sacrifices.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 12, 2007 12:45:04 GMT -5
You raise a valid point that Spider-Man's credibility isn't high, and certainly Tony will be using Stark Enterprises' PR department to spin this the way he wants it seen. But even small revelations can eventually create avalanches. If, for example, Armory came forward and described her experience at the Stamford base, and a few other folks talked about what they knew, the who rotten house of cards would come crashing down. Er, no that's rubbish and I think you know it. "Armoury's Experience"- NO-ONE, and I mean no one, would care that she lost her weapon or whatever. Now if it came out about the death of MVP here's what would ensue: Damage control, Gyrich would probably be fired. In fact, if that came out it would probably strengthen the Initative greatly by getting rid of the rotten apples who let it happen. I'd say there are thousands of faster ways actually. I mean I think I'd be more ready to commit violence if my family were rbutally killed than if I was incarcerated, for example. It's okay to say that taking away freedoms can incite them but the blanket statement you made cannot possibly be supported, certainly not by history.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 15:24:54 GMT -5
Doom, let me ask you straight out.
Do you believe it is a good thing to sacrifice a given amount of freedom for an equal amount of safety?
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Post by balok on Apr 12, 2007 15:58:52 GMT -5
Keep in mind, when you answer that, that generally you can quantify what freedoms you lose. But you have only the government's word for it that you're safer.
People who still support individual rights would agree that Armory was mistreated, but there are probably not enough of them to demand major changes. However, as each new incident of rottenness comes out (and with Stark and Gyrich running things, there will be more rottenness), it will corrode support for the Initiative. Eventually even the dullest pro-government citizen will begin to ask what they bought when the sold out the superheroes. Unless the government has a solid answer, there will be trouble.
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Post by Alchemist-X on Apr 12, 2007 16:04:51 GMT -5
After re-reading Civil War, the whole Innitiative seems to more and more a logical result of events. After Stamford, it really seems like the will of the people is that masked people shouldn't be above the law (Techncially already a law, isn't it illegal to flee a crim scence, and or dispense vigilante justice). As far as the general public is concerned, it isn't their freedom thats being given up, its super people's freedoms, so I think it would take a lot of roteness to out weight the benefits that the Innitiative has provided them, considering most of the bad things aren't happening to the general public anymore.
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