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Post by Black Knight on Feb 9, 2007 14:02:12 GMT -5
Actually, shocking though this may sound, I enjoyed this more than many Avengers issues for a LONG time. And yes it had it's colossal faults (Why exactly does Echo include the line "If you're reading this..." Should it not be more along the lines of "If you're reading this Matt, then congratulations on getting over the whole 'being blind' thing?" But yes, I enjoyed the issue. Why, you may ask? Because it's not the Avengers. WHAAAAA? You may ask. What is Doom smoking!? But it's not the Avengers. And I can stop pretending. Due to the lack of actual Avengers on this team, I can tell myself that this is NOT the real time of Avengers- it's even less Avenger like than New Avengers. And this time, there's an alternative where I can say "The REAL Avengers are here- it has Black Widow, Wasp, Ms Marvel, Wonder Man, Iron Man- it's Avengers enough for me." So I can pretend to myself that this loser NA team is the latest incarnation of the Defenders or whoever, but NOT the Avengers. And that frees me of my greatest problem with this book; that nit's supposed to be an Avengers story. As a consequence, I enjoy this. Most of you despise NA for everything, but I've always made clear that I mostly dislike the characters, the threats etc which make it not a real Avengers book. Unlike you lot, I generally enjoyed the writing okay. So now I can happily ready my real avengers every month and my TOTALLY DIFFERENT TEAM every month. Never thought I'd say this but props to Bendis. Glad, you can find a way to enjoy this book. To bad that it says AVENGERS in big letters on the cover. LOL
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 9, 2007 14:22:15 GMT -5
Glad, you can find a way to enjoy this book. To bad that it says AVENGERS in big letters on the cover. LOL I choose to studiously ignore that, it works for me
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Post by von Bek on Feb 9, 2007 14:25:07 GMT -5
But it's not the Avengers. And I can stop pretending. Due to the lack of actual Avengers on this team, I can tell myself that this is NOT the real time of Avengers- it's even less Avenger like than New Avengers. And this time, there's an alternative where I can say "The REAL Avengers are here- it has Black Widow, Wasp, Ms Marvel, Wonder Man, Iron Man- it's Avengers enough for me." So you´re saying the REAL Avengers book is the one that has Ultron as a girl striking sexy poses? And let´s not forget Ares, God of War...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 9, 2007 14:38:34 GMT -5
Honestly? Compared to the ninja crap we've endured for years?
Girl Ultron is fine.
And I still have no big problem with Ares.
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Post by Black Knight on Feb 9, 2007 15:11:08 GMT -5
Glad, you can find a way to enjoy this book. To bad that it says AVENGERS in big letters on the cover. LOL I choose to studiously ignore that, it works for me What you should do is glue the name Defenders across it. LOL
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Post by Black Knight on Feb 9, 2007 15:12:50 GMT -5
Honestly? Compared to the ninja crap we've endured for years? Girl Ultron is fine. And I still have no big problem with Ares. ' Actually this team is vastly more like a classic Avengers team. Iron Man, Black Widow, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, and the wasp are all classic members. Now aside from the inane villians, the comic looks good.
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Post by spiderwasp on Feb 9, 2007 16:10:01 GMT -5
I'm trying my best to reserve judgement on the Ares thing but boy is it tough.
As for the girl Ultron, I don't really see that it's that big of a deal. Now, if the story said that Ultron had always been a girl (And with Bendis writing, I won't discount the idea) then I would find it to be a problem. However, Ultron has had many incarnations and this is just the latest. I agree that's it's not that original (Jocasta, and that other one whose name is escaping me at the moment - War something?)
Although I myself have many times criticized Bendis and direction which Marvel has taken of late, I do have to agree that many of us are too quick to jump to judgements. Most of the line-up for MA is a huge improvement over anything we've seen in a couple of years. I for one am celebrating the return of Wasp, Wonderman, Ms. Marvel, and the Black Widow to the book and am choosing to stay optimistic until Bendis gives me cause not to be.
Now as for NA, the line-up, the preview art and that kick by Cage are making it way to hard to enter this with the same enthusiasm. I plan to pick up #27 because it's on my pull list, but unless I'm greatly surprised, I'll be dropping it after that.
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fatbob
Force Works-er
Posts: 27
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Post by fatbob on Feb 9, 2007 19:28:10 GMT -5
I for one am celebrating the return of Wasp, Wonderman, Ms. Marvel, and the Black Widow to the book and am choosing to stay optimistic until Bendis gives me cause not to be. Now as for NA, the line-up, the preview art and that kick by Cage are making it way to hard to enter this with the same enthusiasm. I plan to pick up #27 because it's on my pull list, but unless I'm greatly surprised, I'll be dropping it after that. Me too, and I suspect my optimism will last until -Ooh, half way thru the first issue. I do not intend to pick up #27 after the dreadful abominations I've seen up to now and after reading about this issue here and elsewhere, I'm glad I'm saving my money.
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Post by redstatecap on Feb 10, 2007 1:08:15 GMT -5
As for the girl Ultron, I don't really see that it's that big of a deal. Now, if the story said that Ultron had always been a girl (And with Bendis writing, I won't discount the idea) then I would find it to be a problem. However, Ultron has had many incarnations and this is just the latest. I agree that's it's not that original (Jocasta, and that other one whose name is escaping me at the moment - War something?) Except that Ultron's Oedipus complex has always been a major part of his characterization, and this "development" throws that right out the window. RSC
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Post by von Bek on Feb 10, 2007 11:33:49 GMT -5
RSC hit the nail on the head. Ultron sees himself as a male (Busiek even elaborated more on that 'revealing' that Pym used his own brain patterns on the first prototype that became sentient), therefore he created Jocasta (in an attempt to steal the life essence - an recreate her in his own image - of the Wasp) and later Alkhema as females to be his bride (sort of). The idea of turning Ultron into a girl is not only asinine but damages the character history as well. And please don´t start that 'wait and see before making hash critiques' because I know more or less what to expect from BENDIS!.
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Post by sharkar on Feb 10, 2007 12:40:08 GMT -5
Except that Ultron's Oedipus complex has always been a major part of his characterization, and this "development" throws that right out the window. RSC Good point, RSC. I imagine it will now be an Electra complex--and they'll have she-Ultron trying to get it on with "daddy" Hank Pym!
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Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 10, 2007 13:50:21 GMT -5
And, since she/he/it has Pym's brain patterns, I imagine should that actually take place it would be the ultimate autoerotic experience!
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Post by spiderwasp on Feb 11, 2007 10:34:59 GMT -5
I never thought I'd say this but I miss the New Avengers. Granted I miss the old Avengers even more but I just bought #27 featuring the new New Avengers and they make the old New Avengers look like a masterpiece. I've not been happy with Bendis' direction of the book from the start but it did keep me just interested enough to keep buying. That is no longer the case. I pulled NA from my pull list and will just have to find out on these boards who Ronin really is. Oh wait, that's right, I don't even care.
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 11, 2007 19:43:08 GMT -5
I had the DVD-ROM out last night. I decided to check over the Disassembled issues, to see (as BigDuke suggested) if reading them in one sitting made a difference in my opinion. Nope. In fact this time, I couldn't even read it. I just looked at the pictures and almost cried. Granted, the last few arcs in Vol. III were going downhill (Search for She-Hulk, Lionheart of Avalon), but they look like fine literature compared to what Bendis and Finch did RIGHT OFF THE BAT. Someone call me when this is over. I, too, am pulling NA from my list, and, while I may pick up the first issue of MA, I will not add it to my list. I am so sad. My wings are drooping on my cowl
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Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 11, 2007 23:31:07 GMT -5
Are you ready to leave for Canada... or France. dlw66...?
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daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Feb 12, 2007 6:42:30 GMT -5
That... the whole kick in the girl thingy thing... has made me laugh like very few things have recently. Thanks Bendis.
Obviously it was a joke. I mean, why else would the art look like a cartoon strip.
Oh by the way. New Avengers is now off my list.
Bendis you *&^%*^.
"If you see Elektra in Japan, kick her in the girl thingy." he he he
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daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Feb 12, 2007 6:45:25 GMT -5
Okay, and the automatic PG rating translator thing, changing the v word into "girl thingy" runs a close second.
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daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Feb 12, 2007 6:46:38 GMT -5
And I'm now a Young Avenger? How do the Young Avengers outrank the Wackos?
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 12, 2007 10:09:29 GMT -5
And I'm now a Young Avenger? How do the Young Avengers outrank the Wackos? Van likes that book better! And as for the censor? We asked Shiryu to make some changes so that we could talk about Dave Cockrum, instead of Dave Thingyrum!!! Maybe Shiryu can help you, too!
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Post by Van Plexico on Feb 13, 2007 7:41:16 GMT -5
Exactly. Sorry for the intermittent absences, gang. Coordinating a dozen writers working on the upcoming SENTINELS anthology collection, writing vol. 3 of that series, working on a novella for FLYING ACES vol. 2 for Wild Cat Books, and trying to pull ASSEMBLED! (the Avengers book) together (in the final stages!)... all while having a full-time job. Not much time left over. Aren't excuses great?? www.whiterocketbooks.comI'll try to be here more regularly in the future.
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BigDuke
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 136
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Post by BigDuke on Feb 13, 2007 10:03:23 GMT -5
I had the DVD-ROM out last night. I decided to check over the Disassembled issues, to see (as BigDuke suggested) if reading them in one sitting made a difference in my opinion. In my defense, I suggested re-reading New Avengers. Disassembled sucked.
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 13, 2007 10:48:18 GMT -5
You are correct, and I stand corrected for insinuating that you were promoting Disassembled, which does suck . But, after looking through it, I couldn't bear to go into the Breakout issues...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 13, 2007 15:54:31 GMT -5
I wanna throw in there that I never despised New Avengers with the passion of some of you but yes, Disassembled does suck. I mean, honestly the sad thing is that Disassembled is ALMOST tolerable when compared to Lionheart of Avalon and the rubbish that came before it. ...Almost. I mean if we ignore everything Hawkeye says, remove Wanda, take out the long, long, long dialogue sections, pretend the action makes sense, pretend there were no more Vision parts, say Ant-Man WASN'T a moron for going out to JoH like that, and say everyone was acting in character. Then I'd almost give it 5/10
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Post by Black Knight on Feb 13, 2007 16:31:07 GMT -5
I think that is another big part of some peoples love of NA, that anything next to the Austen era Avengers, looks down right amazing.
I mean the NA run, as slow as it is, and as out charter the charters are in it, still shine like gold, when you put them up next to Austen's garabage.
It is to bad that Marvel used the horrible sales for Austen's run to support the idea of NA.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 13, 2007 17:20:37 GMT -5
Oh I dunno Black Knight, I thought Hawkeye lecturing Cap on smacking women, the Captain Britain mythos being mutilated and Thor having mega-powerful arrows despite his apparant lack of a bow are highlights in Avengers History The ironic thing is, I actually remember thinking "Wow! That's a great Wanda costume in this story!" as the only good thing about it. Course within 10 issues that ceased to be a concern. Either the costume OR having only one good thing. I can find at least two good things about each Bendis issue! PS: Was I the only one who after Avengers 500 thought there was still SOME promise there based solely and entirely upon Cap telling the authorities to treat Jarvis as though he were an Avenger?
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Post by Black Knight on Feb 14, 2007 8:59:43 GMT -5
I think my problem is that for every one or two things you find right (mostly to do with Spider-woman or Cage, I am willing to bet), I can find three or four things wrong.
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Post by Tana Nile on Feb 14, 2007 13:17:07 GMT -5
Bottom line, it just doesn't 'feel' like Avengers to me. I am done with NA for the present, will try MA. But I'm not expecting any miracles. Oh, and the crotch kick? A new low for Avengers. And let me say, it still hurts to be kicked there for us too - although not quite the same as for you gents I gather.
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 15, 2007 9:28:02 GMT -5
From comicscontinuum.com, Marvel's latest solicitations: NEW AVENGERS #30 Written by Brian Michael Bendis, pencils and cover by Leinil Yu. The New Avengers versus the Hand! And the New Avengers versus the Mighty Avengers! And the identity of the new Ronin revealed! Who is the new mystery player in the New Avengers? Find out here! Guest-starring the Mighty Avengers and... wait for it... Brother Voodoo! Brother Vodoo? Brother Voodoo?? Who says this isn't the Marvel Age of Comics??
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Post by redstatecap on Feb 15, 2007 12:04:49 GMT -5
Three issues from now we're still on ninjas!?! lol
RSC
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 16, 2007 21:42:09 GMT -5
Well, I did it. When I went to my comic shop after school today, I picked up NA 27, EMH II #6, and the latest Detective Comics. When I paid I told the owner to drop NA from my pull list. Sign me up for MA #1 only. For the first time in forever (since I've been a no-fail monthly buyer -- 23 years??) I do not have Avengers on any list or subscription. Feels kind of weird. Then I read #27 and said "yep -- good call". First off, it was a Daredevil comic (with no DD, for crying out loud!), and then the Defenders showed up. Dialogue descended into the utter depths of "forced to be funny" hell. And oh, yeah -- there was the issue of the crotch kick. Wow. Throughout my approximately 34 years of reading the Avengers on a regular basis, I've seen some low times, some bad stories. They were Shakespeare compared to this. But I don't have to worry about wasting my $3 anymore...
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