steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Aug 30, 2006 11:10:07 GMT -5
Got the latest NA in the mail yesterday (yes, I have a subscription my daughter bought because she knows how much I love the Avengers) and overall it wasn't that bad. Of course I have little emotional ties to Spider-Woman, any of them, so they can do whatever they want to her.
I find it funny they had no problem sticking a guest artist(?) on this issue and they have to delay the Civil War series so the artist can catch up.
And here is a major spoiler for you:
I also find it amusing that the other Spider-Woman pops up in the latest Ms. Marvel and both SW's are traitors.
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 30, 2006 11:18:38 GMT -5
Back Issue #17 has historical articles on Spider-Woman, as well as Tigra. It's worth a read if your comics shop carries it, or you can use the link to mail order. I really love this magazine!! www.twomorrows.com/
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Aug 30, 2006 11:28:50 GMT -5
I have or had some of the old Spider-Woman series but I was never that interested in it. I figured Marvel was just trying to protect possible infringements on Spider-Man and the Hulk so they came out with lame female copies that never did anything for me. In fact, She-Hulk rates in the top five of my "Lamest Avengers" list. (That was before NA. Wolverine, Sentry and Echo might push her off the top five.)
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 31, 2006 8:25:18 GMT -5
Big reading night for me last night -- NA 22 & 23, plus Civil War 2-3. Also read Agents of Atlas #1, and have given my two cents elsewhere.
What to say about NA? As self-contained stories, neither book was as bad as what we've come to know as New Avengers. But think about that -- many of us have said we have enjoyed Bendis' work on USM or Daredevil. The guy can write solo books. So, as NA 22 focused on Luke Cage (or is that Samuel L. Jackson, I forget...) and NA 23 was all about Spider-Woman (was it just me, or has she had a regression with her implants?), Bendis seemed to be a bit more in his element. Was the Cage slavery discourse out of line? Yes. Was the story about the decision for his gal and the baby to flee at least partly emotional? Yes. Do I yet care about all of these people? No. Am I looking forward to the Sentry in NA 24? Uh uh, no way. Don't care.
Both of these books were written as if they were the supplemental material to Civil War, not one of the main titles in this crossover "epic". I dislike the premise in the first place -- while I don't have a hard time believing the gov't would want some control, that anyone involved would give up their vigilante status is just ludicrous. I still think the fact that Stark and Richards have lived off gov't contracts for years is the push behind their stances. But for Peter Parker to out himself -- no way, don't believe it, wouldn't happen.
And as for Yu's art in #22, I would like to know how he thinks an adamantium shield would get a chip out of the edge... What exactly would be strong enough to cause that, and don't you think, since the first time we see that artistic example of braindeadness the shield is being thrown, that the aerodynamics might be a little off if it were chipped? Maybe I'm nitpicking, but that panel just leapt off the page at me. Know your characters and their equipment!!!
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Aug 31, 2006 9:40:15 GMT -5
And as for Yu's art in #22, I would like to know how he thinks an adamantium shield would get a chip out of the edge... What exactly would be strong enough to cause that, and don't you think, since the first time we see that artistic example of braindeadness the shield is being thrown, that the aerodynamics might be a little off if it were chipped? Maybe I'm nitpicking, but that panel just leapt off the page at me. Know your characters and their equipment!!! No you're not nitpicking. I was going to mention the chipped shield thing but I forgot where I saw it. The shield is made of an adamantium/vibranium alloy that is supposed to be impossible to damage. The only time I've seen it damaged was way back in the Avengers vol 1 where The Living Laser destroyed it (which makes me think that wasn't Cap's real shield) and that stupid first Secret Wars which so bad I tend to ignore anything that happened in it.
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 31, 2006 10:38:59 GMT -5
I guess it's that lack of attention to detail that has us all up in arms. Really, in a nutshell, that's it. Yeah, way too much dialogue and not always enough action (although in the action dept., #'s 22-23 were very fair), but most of us might be able to get through that if there wasn't the pervading attitude of "that was then, this is now and now is better so screw all you guys living in the past".
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Aug 31, 2006 10:41:49 GMT -5
Once again I reiterate: What do the editors do at Marvel these days. Are you telling me they didn't catch this gaff?
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 31, 2006 11:00:15 GMT -5
Ah, yes, back in the day Jazzy Johnny Romita would have come along and corrected that gaff.
I used to own an old page of original art from a Capt. America comic. I was curious because Romita had autographed the page. I didn't think he drew it, but when I wanted to sell it on ebay I listed it as drawn by him. Several buyers contacted me and pointed out my error, so I pulled the listing. One gentleman suggested I contact Roy Thomas, who could probably tell me of John's potential involvement. I did, and Roy was very helpful. I sent him a scan of the page, and he said that he thought John might have drawn the arm of one of the characters. I was able to re-list the page correctly and sell it, but obviously for much less (it was drawn by Sal Buscema and John Verpoorten).
There is no way that kind of touching-up still goes on today...
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Sept 1, 2006 5:48:57 GMT -5
And as for Yu's art in #22, I would like to know how he thinks an adamantium shield would get a chip out of the edge... 'Cause it's kewl...! It's hawt! F*ck it... I don't even know what is anymore.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Sept 1, 2006 5:50:03 GMT -5
Once again I reiterate: What do the editors do at Marvel these days. Are you telling me they didn't catch this gaff? Marvel has Editors? That's news to me
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Post by imperiusrex on Sept 1, 2006 15:39:56 GMT -5
And as for Yu's art in #22, I would like to know how he thinks an adamantium shield would get a chip out of the edge... What exactly would be strong enough to cause that, and don't you think, since the first time we see that artistic example of braindeadness the shield is being thrown, that the aerodynamics might be a little off if it were chipped? Maybe I'm nitpicking, but that panel just leapt off the page at me. Know your characters and their equipment!!! No you're not nitpicking. I was going to mention the chipped shield thing but I forgot where I saw it. The shield is made of an adamantium/vibranium alloy that is supposed to be impossible to damage. The only time I've seen it damaged was way back in the Avengers vol 1 where The Living Laser destroyed it (which makes me think that wasn't Cap's real shield) and that stupid first Secret Wars which so bad I tend to ignore anything that happened in it. the shield isn't adamantium. very common mistake, but not the case... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_America#Weapons_and_equipmentI know wikipedia is often wrong, but not the case here. I very clearly remember the backup story where Kurt Busiek explained the shield in depth. I also recall he never wanted to say exactly what the metal is that comprises the shield because he felt it loses a little bit of magic to know everything. as to the shield chipping...well I only read the issue in my comic store and don't remember the scene in question, but the paint on Cap's shield does come off on occasion, could that have been it?
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 1, 2006 16:50:02 GMT -5
Confirm, the shield is harder than adamantium, which was created in an attempt to reproduce the special alloy of Cap's shield. As for NA, I managed to look at 22, but I really disliked the art. Right now, the best art I've seen is in Fantastic Four (and, soon, in EMH 2)
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 1, 2006 20:18:52 GMT -5
No, it's not a paint-chip; it's a chunk maybe about the size of your thumbnail out of the edge. Like it even was dented (?).
There's something in the Marvel Universe harder than adamantium?
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Post by imperiusrex on Sept 1, 2006 22:44:00 GMT -5
No, it's not a paint-chip; it's a chunk maybe about the size of your thumbnail out of the edge. Like it even was dented (?). There's something in the Marvel Universe harder than adamantium? Ok well anything more than a paint chip's worth is just taking a bit too much artistic license. And Cap's shield is presumably harder than adamantium due to its unique metallurgic properties. Could, say, Wonder Man using the edge of the shield decapitate Ultron? Dunno, but it would pretty cool if he did (not our Ultron, mind you. His head should stay firmly in place...) Now Uru has dented Cap's shield, but that was with Thor wielding the Odin Power, so who knows?
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 2, 2006 4:58:48 GMT -5
Perez depicted Cap's shield badly damaged in Superman's hands for the cover of Avengers/JLA 4, but that didn't actually happen in the story (even though Krona was probably powerful enough to destroy it if he wanted).
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Post by Doctor Doom on Sept 2, 2006 10:23:27 GMT -5
I don't care, that was an awesome cover. I think I can forgive Perez anything
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Post by balok on Sept 23, 2006 13:49:53 GMT -5
I'd just like to know how Jessica goes from a kick-ass babe in the first part of the book, leaving explosions behind her escape, to a whiney "please take me in I've got nowhere to go" emotional wreck at the end? Can someone explain that to me??
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Post by mrblaque on Oct 1, 2006 0:53:19 GMT -5
I thought the shield was made of a vibranium alloy and not adamantium?
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Oct 1, 2006 11:41:17 GMT -5
Someone want to tell me how a guy who has posted just once suddenly has a -2 karma. Is it because of his question about Caps shield?
I'm giving him a karma point back.
And as for the question, mrblaque, if you look back earlier in the thread this was covered. It is a vibranium alloy.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Feb 21, 2007 13:37:49 GMT -5
This may be my last chance to post on a New Avengers topic - -so I'm going with it, even though it's so late.
Found this issue at the antique mall for a dollar, so I bought it. I agree, that with only 1 main character to cover, Bendis was able to fit a lot more activity between these 2 covers. It was pretty good overall, I have to say -- but boy does seeing an evil Iron Man and an evil SHIELD bug me. I would have liked to have seen the Helicarrier go down permanently. I have always thought that vehicle was the most unlikely contraption to ever appear in comics. I can suspend disbelief for the cosmic cube, but not the helicarrier. That's just me.
But, it was a pretty good espionage counter-spy story. Too bad the greatest super hero book on Earth had to be sacrificed to support it.
I'm glad Jessica Drew has the Hydra and SHIELD monkeys off her back, finally. Both make good enemies for her.
I enjoyed the book a great deal, but it's still not worth 3 bucks or 2.50 or whatever the cover price is.
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