Look at me! Look at me!

[daned]

Hey, how are ya. A little about me first. I realise I could write something continuing the 'is New Avengers really that bad' thread, but as a middle child, who's also a teacher, I have an uncontrollable urge to be the centre of attention, so, while this will be bagging out New Avengers somewhat, I need to tell you a little about myself.

I realised the other day that I was an old-school fan, as it has been twenty-odd years that I've been reading Avengers. My first issue was 283 - 'She Hulk Wild on the Streets" on the cover.

I've stuck with the Avengers ever since. I have missed all but one regular Avengers because of a subscription stuff up, and I bought 5 issues of Heroes Reborn (at least 3 more than any of my mates). And bugger it, I like Harras's Gatherers run.

I've seen Avengers go from great to road kill so many times, and while I've given up on some other titles (Spidey got me into comics in the Amazing Spiderman Gang Wars storyline, but lost me in MacFarlane's ruin <I actually meant to say 'run' but mistyped it. I think I'll leave it>) I've stuck with the Avengers.

I like Bendis. Let's get that out of the way. At issue 20 of NA I re-read his Daredevil run and thought it was great. I've read many of his Ultimate Spiderman run, but only through my mate's Trader Paperbacks and loved them. (As much as I love them, I refuse to pay for 6 comics, in a story that used to be told in one).

But Bendis is not original.

Ennis's Preacher is my favourite comic run of all time. There's no comment boxes in any single issue (I guess I should know what they're called, but I'm guessing you know what I'm talking about). Christopher Priest brilliantly use non-chronological story telling on Quantum and Woody and then Black Panther.

Bendis can do it, and do it well, but he's hardly original. So this cult that's sprang up around him, has me flummoxed.

New Avengers is stuffed. Want proof? I almost quantified it.

I sat down with issues 16-20 - the 'Collective storyline'. I annotated the number of pages and panels that were devoted to characters without Avengers, one Avenger, a couple Avengers, the whole of Avengers doing little more than standing around alking, and the Avengers actually doing something. Basically, there were more panels containing no Avengers than panels containing all the Avengers.

I would like to give you the facts in a brilliantly formatted table, however, I tried to do it while drunk and have no idea where I've put it.

But, if you're interested in seeing what I mean, pick up issues 14 and 15. Issue 14 spends more than half of the comic following Ms Marvel who then TURNS DOWN membership into the Avengers!! So why th %^&$&^ did we follow her for 15 &^$%&*^$ pages? Issue 15 is all about how a SHIELD agent doesn't want to call for help from the Avengers, and then, eventually, does. AND ... THAT ... IS ... IT!!!! And let's not forget that entire storyline. What happens? The entire thing ends with SHIELD using Iron Man and his Superfriends, but still ends with the return of an X-Men villain.

So how can I put the problem into words? I can do it in one.

RESPECT.

Respect the d**n product. Busiek lost me the moment he had the Avengers tied into knots by a guy who - wait for it - had the power of 3 regular humans. Oooohhhh!!! Avengers had Thor.

Bendis has had nothing but piss-weak opponents for a piss-weak collection of Iron Man flunkies. What irritates me is that Bendis hasn't appeared to 'get' any of the Avengers comics that he read. (He's obviously read some since that's where he got the idea for 'Disassembled' - without actually realising the problem was sorted.)

When the Avengers turn up, the situation's sorted. The Avengers don't go looking for members, superheroes graduate to the Avengers. At least Cage has some sort of respect (joining so he can tell his daughter he was an Avenger) but then makes them go work as crossing guards (which remember, took almost an issue).

I think what really gave me the irrits (I think it's an Australianism, so don't bother trying) is that my friend gave me a hard cover copy of Identity Crisis. It blew me away. But I hated that it did, because I've been a Marvel Zombie for years. The only DC comics I've bought have been Vertigo (and only two at that - Preacher and Transmetropolitan) and I've proudly ignored anything they did.

Identity Crisis changed all that. Marvel is supposed to do those stories, d**n it. DC has undefeatable heroes without any moral problems. Marvel does the hero stories. There is nothing more moving to me than Captain America on his knees crying over the torn picture of his mother. After a 5 issue story that had everything in it to tell a full story - and it was in chronological order.

Close to that moment was the last issue of Thunderstrike where, the second full-page splash page - of the entire series - Thor shed a single tear when he realised Eric was dead.

Bugger, I've lost my place.

Respect. That's it.

Bendis doesn't seem to respect the Avengers, or the concept of Avengers. He plays with his little favourites, turning it into issues of Marvel Comics Presents - which also focused on Wolverine.

Bring back my Heroes.

Bring back the Avengers.

(Sorry if this turned into an article. I have a tendency to get self-righteous and verbose after a six pack.)

[bobc]

I agree completely--the Avengers have been thrown in the garbage can.

Funny you should bring up Captain America crying over the pic of his mother getting ripped up. That whole scene was borderline genius in regards to how well the writer "got" the captain America character. Cap waited until the whole battle was over and quietly slipped off to have a sad moment with the only picture he had of his mother. With all the damage done to the mansion, Hercules in a coma, he himself beaten half to death--none of that even fazed him, but the ripped up picture did. That photo was from WW2 and obviously one of a kind so it had tremendous emotional value to him.

Look--it's only a comic book, but what a stroke of genius to add that little touch to the end of Under Siege. You know it really only makes me dislike Bendis more for what he's done to this book. Shallow garbage.

[redstatecap]

Preach on, my brothers!

RSC

[asgardian]

What can I say that hasn't already been said?

[Doctor Bong]

I guess anyone would know, just by looking at your handle, that you were a fan of Harra's run... so am I, but I fear we're on a definite minority here, Daned... From what I could gather (pun intended) on the different forums here, that period seems to be considered by the majority as an Avengers low point... Too many soap opera elements for the taste of most people, perhaps...? Yet, those elements seemed to work fine with Spidey... At least there was plenty of characterization (which lack thereof is a major complaint among many fans) while at the same time the action elements were, I believe, still present (unlike what happens in other current runs that I need not mention...!!!)
He made me like & care about the Black Knight (who previously had been kind of a stiff to me) & Crystal. But back then I didn't collect (and still don't) the X-Men titles, so I mercifully wasn't aware that the Avengers looks at the time were rip offs of the X-Men, and specially Dane's look was copied from Gambit...
Crystal's still one of my favorite Avengers (I know... not many people would publicly claim this) and, I really think that, like in Wanda & the Vision's case, her powers have been underused, perhaps because no writer has actually cared to define them clearly, and yet they are potentially very cool...!
And finally, allow me to welcome you aboard, Astraulian Assembler! (Sorry, couldn't resist...)

[spiderwasp]

ua2 said:

I guess anyone would know, just by looking at your handle, that you were a fan of Harra's run... so am I, but I fear we're on a definite minority here, Daned... From what I could gather (pun intended) on the different forums here, that period seems to be considered by the majority as an Avengers low point... Too many soap opera elements for the taste of most people, perhaps...? Yet, those elements seemed to work fine with Spidey... At least there was plenty of characterization (which lack thereof is a major complaint among many fans) while at the same time the action elements were, I believe, still present (unlike what happens in other current runs that I need not mention...!!!)
He made me like & care about the Black Knight (who previously had been kind of a stiff to me) & Crystal. But back then I didn't collect (and still don't) the X-Men titles, so I mercifully wasn't aware that the Avengers looks at the time were rip offs of the X-Men, and specially Dane's look was copied from Gambit...
Crystal's still one of my favorite Avengers (I know... not many people would publicly claim this) and, I really think that, like in Wanda & the Vision's case, her powers have been underused, perhaps because no writer has actually cared to define them clearly, and yet they are potentially very cool...!
And finally, allow me to welcome you aboard, Astraulian Assembler! (Sorry, couldn't resist...)

Hey, I'll admit it. I was a Crystal fan too which surprised me because I always thought she was a bit annoying in the FF. Harras managed to make her interesting and show that she had some real power. I also agree that I had never before cared much for the Black Knight, but he changed that too. I started out loving Sersi, but she went downhill instead of up as things moved on with the storyline. Overall, Harras' run would not be my favorite (That honor would have to go to the Busiek/Perez run or the period surrounding the Korvac saga even though I can't remember who wrote that,) but it is nowhere near as bad as many people seem to be remembering and I looked forward to each issue with eager anticipation. With NA, I buy each issue reluctantly, just hoping that this will be the one where things turn around.

[bobc]

I didn't mind that period--I just didn't find it very memorable for some reason. I thought Crystal was okay in the Avengers but I guess at that point I was thinking there were already like 5000 Avengers, so why bring her in when all the others were languishing in obscurity? The jackets didn't bother me either. Just a matter of taste I suppose.

[Black Knight]

From my handle you can guess I liked that period because BK was in it. I felt that his charater really moved forward, and it was shown that he could be popular. Oh well...

[dlw66]

That was a line-up that never reached its potential. You had a strange mix of characters, but the Gatherers storyline was just too long and drawn out.

And as I've said, I did not care for the bomber jackets...

[bobc]

I liked The Black Knight in the Avengers. I remember seeing him when I was a little kid and thinking he was really cool.

[Black Knight]

bobc said:

I liked The Black Knight in the Avengers. I remember seeing him when I was a little kid and thinking he was really cool.

And then you had Ostranders H4H which made him even cooler, and then pretty much nothing. Droped for amazing charaters like X-23 and gravity. *rolling eyes*

[bobc]

I never heard of those characters

[Black Knight]

bobc said:

I never heard of those characters

Your joking right...
X-23 the female teen clone of wolverine that Joe Q has said will be the next big thing.. LOL
Or gravity, the pointless teenage hero.
Or mabye you have heard of Arana the female teen version of spider man who is also the next big thing according to Joe Q...

LOL

[bobc]

Nope--never heard of either of them although I may have an ever so hazy memory of some female wolverine character that was in some cross-over comic a while back. I just assumed it was a bad dream.

[dlw66]

Well I have heard of all of that, but have made a conscious effort to stay away from the X and Spider books. Instead, I've been spending my money on New Avengers!!

How come there's no smiley that looks like he's puking?

[bobc]

We need more Wolverines. I just cannot get enough. I think there should even be a transexual Wolverine. And a pre-pubescent Wolverine. Maybe even one who's a fetus.

[Ultron]

Wolverine Wolverine - A wild Wolverine gets caught and taken for laboratory experiences by a man scientist, Dr. Bob W Verine, gets transformed into "Wolverine Wolverine" by an experimentent gone beserk, seing it's skeleton turn to Adamantium, regenaration augmented, developing a taste for cigars, and displaying a macho man halo of mystery about it's past even though it only has four paws and it's clearly non-human.

[balok]

bobc said:

Nope--never heard of either of them although I may have an ever so hazy memory of some female wolverine character that was in some cross-over comic a while back. I just assumed it was a bad dream.

I think you heard of them... and then used your Ronco Pocket Defibrillator for a little amnesia inducing impromptu electroshock therapy.

Because NONE of those characters are worth remembering.

[balok]

According to X-continuity, and if memory serves me, Wolverine was Weapon X - as in "Weapon 10." X-23 is the twenty-third iteration in the series, incorporating all of the lessons learned, so of course she's much cooler.

And Weapon 1, the original prototype? Captain America, the very first Super Soldier. Yep, Cap has a place in X-continuity, although he's ten times less cool than Wolverine and a solid twenty-three times less cool than the psychotic wolverchick.

Hey, I don't make this stuff up.

[ozbot]

Well, I liked the Harras run, myself, and I liked the jackets, too, FWIW. I loved the Gatherers storyline, but I never liked Sersi so much, so when it became 'her' story, I started to wane in my enthusiasm. So overall i guess I have mixed feelings about it. The sad part was, this was about the same time that I started to get more "educated" about my comics reading (i.e., more "critical" in the sense of trying to be more discerning) so the Avengers, what was once pure moments of fanboyish glee and acceptance, became more scrutinized to various, and often more strigent, standards.

It's this same discernment that allows me to abandon the New Avengers even tho the inner fanboy still thinks that the line-up is pretty cool.

[bobc]

I didn't mind the Harras run either. I didn't feel strongly one way or the other--I liked when the Black Widow fought Red Skull. I thought that was a memorable battle. I liked Crystal being around but she never was really shown to do much.