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Post by Van Plexico on May 26, 2006 12:57:59 GMT -5
Just a quick statement to kick off this thread (and sorry for the delay--was out of town)... This may have been my favorite Bendis issue thus far. I enjoyed it quite a bit. And it actually took more than two seconds to read. I was shocked!  Even the cover looked nice, IMO-- although Wolverine still managed to grab about 25% of it, there in the foreground. And of course good ol' Shellhead got a lot of "screen time" this issue, so I was relatively happy. Thoughts? |
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Post by thew40 on May 26, 2006 13:25:21 GMT -5
This was definetly the "exposition" issue, though some nice fight scenes too. I actually felt like there was too much information crammed in at once.
I'm in love with Maria Hill. She's such a mean character, but you can tell is someone that thinks that she's doing the right thing, no matter what. Very much "means justify the ends"-type character. The way she treated Peter and Vision was quite harsh.
Nice explanation for Michael, even though . . . I don't know. I didn't like how it was like "If I theorize it, it must be right!"
He landed on Genosha, which was neat. Hopefully, Bendis is aware of what has been happening in "Son of M."
I'm eagerly awaiting the conclusion.
~W~
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Post by manleychilde on May 26, 2006 23:03:02 GMT -5
It almost seemed for a brief moment that Iron Man and Cap were on the same side against SHIELD in trying to get Spider-Man and Vision out. Cap's confrontation with Hill felt pretty awkward after the way he left in Civil War #1. All in all I really enjoyed this one and I'm looking forward to see where this story will go.
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Post by thew40 on May 26, 2006 23:45:21 GMT -5
It almost seemed for a brief moment that Iron Man and Cap were on the same side against SHIELD in trying to get Spider-Man and Vision out. Cap's confrontation with Hill felt pretty awkward after the way he left in Civil War #1. All in all I really enjoyed this one and I'm looking forward to see where this story will go. Just so you know, this issue takes place before "Civil War" # 1. Placing it is a bit tricky. It's obvious it takes place after the draft of super-hero registration is written (which takes place in the "Road to Civil War" issues), but before the event in Stamford. Best bet? Between "Amazing Spider-Man" # 529 and 530. That explains why Spidey has his new costume and how it's possible that the Super-Hero Registration is being written. It's also possible that it takes place between the pages of "Civil War" # 1, possibly right before Johnny has his head bashed in. It's touch to get in there, but that's seems like a fit too. ~W~ |
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Post by TRENDIS on May 27, 2006 23:46:02 GMT -5
At this point, i only wonder when will this marketting gimmick end: BENDIS!, wolverine, Spiderman, Spiderwoman, Alterna-covers, Writing-for-the-trade, Multiple crossovers; when will it all end.
Nearly 20 issues filled with nothingness. Almost two entire years dedicated to spitting in 40 year's worth of Avengers legacy when not writting about nothing at all.
Get this guy a Sitcom; and take his monosylabic quips, over a multipage background of talking heads, where it belongs: The fantabulastic world of early cancelled Sitcoms.
Yeah. I'm a fan.
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Post by thew40 on May 27, 2006 23:56:35 GMT -5
At this point, i only wonder when will this marketting gimmick end: BENDIS!, wolverine, Spiderman, Spiderwoman, Alterna-covers, Writing-for-the-trade, Multiple crossovers; when will it all end. Nearly 20 issues filled with nothingness. Almost two entire years dedicated to spitting in 40 year's worth of Avengers legacy when not writting about nothing at all. Get this guy a Sitcom; and take his monosylabic quips, over a multipage background of talking heads, where it belongs: The fantabulastic world of early cancelled Sitcoms. Yeah. I'm a fan. . . . okay. I see where this thread is going fast. For the sake of arguement: while Bendis has apparently "bent" or "ignored" continunity, he never really spit at all 40 years of Avengers history. ~W~ |
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Post by Shiryu on May 28, 2006 8:43:20 GMT -5
Looks like another chapter of the vs/pro Bendis issue.  Is there any big continuity / characterization problem in this issue too, or was Trendis' statement more general ? |
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Post by thew40 on May 28, 2006 10:03:28 GMT -5
Looks like another chapter of the vs/pro Bendis issue. Is there any big continuity / characterization problem in this issue too, or was Trendis' statement more general ? General. Is there any chance we can just talk about this issue in this thread and not bring up the insanely aggitating, seemingly never-ending vs/pro Bendis issue? There are about a kajillion threads on that. ~W~ |
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Post by spiderwasp on May 28, 2006 22:19:20 GMT -5
This was definetly the "exposition" issue, though some nice fight scenes too. I actually felt like there was too much information crammed in at once. ~W~ I understand your point but after so long with so little information offered in each issue, I'm not going to complain about too much. I think Civil War forced this story to move faster in order to get it in so the exposition had to come more quickly. Yay for Civil War! I know the generic covers make it much easier than having issue specific covers but, I personally, am tired of seeing every issue of every book with just another picture of the main characters. There are very few issues of NA that even hint at what's inside. And it's not just NA, FF does the same thing. Thank goodness for She-Hulk. Now there's some covers to love. Overall though, NA is getting better and I'm starting to have hope for the future of the Avengers again. |
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Post by Shiryu on May 30, 2006 8:04:07 GMT -5
I pretty much agree with W, we've talked a lot about Bendis, there is not much of a point in turning every thread in a "j'accuse", unless he makes some other big continuity mistake.
I'm also with Spiderwasp for the covers, I miss the days where you could get a glimpse on the content just from the cover itself. These days they are meaningless (at best) and sometimes confusing (at worse).
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Post by dlw66 on May 30, 2006 8:04:18 GMT -5
I don't have it yet -- did it skip the week it was supposed to ship?
I made a tongue-in-cheek post in another thread about the many styles of Brian Bendis. W, you might be interested to check it out -- I praise the man!!
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Post by bobc on May 30, 2006 13:31:13 GMT -5
I haven't bought the last two issues--I may be a slow learner but eventually I learned. I'd love to say Bendis spit in the face of 40 years of history, but that'd be implying he actually knew the history.
If Bendis had done something with this marketing ploy, it'd be different but it has been two years of nothing. You can only say "well, maybe next issue something will happen..."
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Post by dlw66 on May 30, 2006 16:55:55 GMT -5
As a lifelong Chicago Cubs fan, I find myself approaching New Avengers the same way, Bob -- Wait 'til next year (issue)! Problem is, like the Cubs, it never seems to get all the way there! I must be a masochist...  |
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Post by bobc on May 30, 2006 17:24:43 GMT -5
I keep waiting for me to become a millionaire with a mansion and a string of polo ponies, but that never seems to happen either.
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Post by Black Knight on Jun 6, 2006 7:43:02 GMT -5
Alright I got my issue of NA 19 and well to be blunt it was the best issue of the Bendis era, so I would put it between the best issue of the austen era and the worst of the Johns era.
Once more, we have Iron Man and Sentry fight Michael, didn't that happen last issue, Shield trying to capture spidey and Vision, wow I wasn't expecting that, and Michael goes to genosha, wow, I mean what great story telling. I feel like I am reading a write by numbers story.
Oh well, just a few more issues and I will see if I am even going to be bothering with this comic anymore.
God please let Cap not be in NA after Civil War.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Jun 7, 2006 6:29:54 GMT -5
Liked the story, too, but I´d rate NA #18 higher -- it was imo some more startling than NA #19.
Another question: are there any proofs (or mayby even acknowledging rumors) that this guy is Korvac? I did just read the Korvac saga and What If #32 ( both for the first time) and would rather believe (after reading the them) that he is not Korvac.
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Post by Black Knight on Jun 7, 2006 7:52:40 GMT -5
Liked the story, too, but I´d rate NA #18 higher -- it was imo some more startling than NA #19. Another question: are there any proofs (or mayby even acknowledging rumors) that this guy is Korvac? I did just read the Korvac saga and What If #32 ( both for the first time) and would rather believe (after reading the them) that he is not Korvac. Its not Korvac, it is a mailman who happened to be in the path of the mutant energy, and happened to be named michael, thats it. Typical Bendis bait and switch crap. |
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Post by bobc on Jun 7, 2006 9:17:14 GMT -5
I just realized something after reading you two's exchange about Korvac. If Mark Millar were
the writer here, I'd be all excited that Korvac might be coming back. I'd be thinking ooooh goody--what will Millar do with this almost forgotten character that'll be really exciting? Then I realized we're talking Bendis here (I just woke up so i'm a little slow) and a sinking feeling hit me that instead of creating excitment, Bendis will create a huge buzz and then deliver ZERO. Bait and switch is a perfect term for what this guy does. My God he even made Hawkeye and Ant Man dying seem boring.
You'd think, after two years of Captain America and Wolverine on the same team, there'd at least be SOME spark of interesting conflict, but nothing.
Comparing Millar to Bendis is like comparing The Sopranos to Three's Company.
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Post by dlw66 on Jun 7, 2006 9:50:08 GMT -5
Ah, that Suzanne Summers.... I think it must have always been cold on the set.
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Post by Black Knight on Jun 7, 2006 11:16:03 GMT -5
I just realized something after reading you two's exchange about Korvac. If Mark Millar were the writer here, I'd be all excited that Korvac might be coming back. I'd be thinking ooooh goody--what will Millar do with this almost forgotten character that'll be really exciting? Then I realized we're talking Bendis here (I just woke up so i'm a little slow) and a sinking feeling hit me that instead of creating excitment, Bendis will create a huge buzz and then deliver ZERO. Bait and switch is a perfect term for what this guy does. My God he even made Hawkeye and Ant Man dying seem boring. You'd think, after two years of Captain America and Wolverine on the same team, there'd at least be SOME spark of interesting conflict, but nothing. Comparing Millar to Bendis is like comparing The Sopranos to Three's Company. First just let me restate it is not Korvac. Bendis already said as much in the comic, although he did try the bait and switch with that. Bendis has been doing the bait and switch since he was first anounced as the writer on Avengers. His first was saying how much he loved the Avengers, then he destroyed them. Bait and switch. He said how much he loved Hawkeye, then killed him. Bait and switch. He said that the team would be like the JLA having all the popular charaters. Then we got some popular charaters and spiderwoman, sentry, luke cage and ronin. Bait and switch. And so on and so on... NA has just been one huge propaganda machine. |
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Post by bobc on Jun 7, 2006 13:51:41 GMT -5
I know it's not Korvac, BK. I was just saying IF it was...
Anyway--yeah I remember how there was all this hoopla that the New Avengers was going to break all this ground and make all these dramatic Marvel universe changes, blah blah blah. In my 30 years of collecting comics, this has been the biggest letdown, by far.
What really annoys me is when Bendis moonies imply that those of us who have hated this run hate change. Not true. I love the Ultimates, love Ultimate FF, loved the new team of X-Men. I liked most of the changes Priest made to the Black Panther.
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Post by Black Knight on Jun 7, 2006 14:47:58 GMT -5
I know it's not Korvac, BK. I was just saying IF it was... Anyway--yeah I remember how there was all this hoopla that the New Avengers was going to break all this ground and make all these dramatic Marvel universe changes, blah blah blah. In my 30 years of collecting comics, this has been the biggest letdown, by far. What really annoys me is when Bendis moonies imply that those of us who have hated this run hate change. Not true. I love the Ultimates, love Ultimate FF, loved the new team of X-Men. I liked most of the changes Priest made to the Black Panther. I know when I asked them to explain to me why I loved brubaker's Cap, which was full of change, or why I liked the new stuff that is coming up for X-Men, they just get silent or start insulting me. Most and I stress the most of the Bendis moonies, really are just one track records, who have been told that he is the hot writer and they should love him. |
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Post by spiderwasp on Jun 7, 2006 15:57:28 GMT -5
I know it's not Korvac, BK. I was just saying IF it was... Anyway--yeah I remember how there was all this hoopla that the New Avengers was going to break all this ground and make all these dramatic Marvel universe changes, blah blah blah. In my 30 years of collecting comics, this has been the biggest letdown, by far. What really annoys me is when Bendis moonies imply that those of us who have hated this run hate change. Not true. I love the Ultimates, love Ultimate FF, loved the new team of X-Men. I liked most of the changes Priest made to the Black Panther. You're totally right. I've had people compare the changes in previous Avenger lineups with New Avengers and be confused as to why we think this change is different. You've hit the nail on the head. It was all the hype that this was going to change the book and make it so much better. Instead, it was just another new lineup BUT Bendis felt the need to abolish the previous team to do it. When we complain that the team doesn't seem like the Avengers anymore, we realize that change has always been a predominant factor in the books, however it wasn't us that built this change up to be different than the ones that came before - it was Bendis. Then once he did it (Oh and he also professed to loving the Scarlet Witch, one of his favorite characters and then - Bait and Switch) he dropped the ball and didn't give us any incredible changes. I wish someone would tell me one thing that has happened in NA that explains why it couldn't just have easily happened with just another lineup change rather than destroying the team. Now that the status quo seems to changing again, though, and I finally have high hopes for the future. |
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Post by bobc on Jun 7, 2006 16:05:51 GMT -5
Ha! Don't ask me to list anything that's happened!
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Post by Black Knight on Jun 8, 2006 7:33:53 GMT -5
I know it's not Korvac, BK. I was just saying IF it was... Anyway--yeah I remember how there was all this hoopla that the New Avengers was going to break all this ground and make all these dramatic Marvel universe changes, blah blah blah. In my 30 years of collecting comics, this has been the biggest letdown, by far. What really annoys me is when Bendis moonies imply that those of us who have hated this run hate change. Not true. I love the Ultimates, love Ultimate FF, loved the new team of X-Men. I liked most of the changes Priest made to the Black Panther. You're totally right. I've had people compare the changes in previous Avenger lineups with New Avengers and be confused as to why we think this change is different. You've hit the nail on the head. It was all the hype that this was going to change the book and make it so much better. Instead, it was just another new lineup BUT Bendis felt the need to abolish the previous team to do it. When we complain that the team doesn't seem like the Avengers anymore, we realize that change has always been a predominant factor in the books, however it wasn't us that built this change up to be different than the ones that came before - it was Bendis. Then once he did it (Oh and he also professed to loving the Scarlet Witch, one of his favorite characters and then - Bait and Switch) he dropped the ball and didn't give us any incredible changes. I wish someone would tell me one thing that has happened in NA that explains why it couldn't just have easily happened with just another lineup change rather than destroying the team. Now that the status quo seems to changing again, though, and I finally have high hopes for the future. I honestly can't list a single thing that was done that could not have been done without the following: 1) Destroying the avengers team 2) restarting the book. |
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Post by Van Plexico on Jun 8, 2006 10:23:16 GMT -5
Well, of course the obvious answer to the question you guys are asking-- "Why did they have to do it (Bendis era) the way they did it, with such hoopla and fanfare and destruction and killing and promises of things we'd never seen before, yadda yadda?" -- is simply this:
It sold more copies this way.
Way more.
So--question: why? Answer: $$$
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 8, 2006 11:47:17 GMT -5
Sigh, money is always the alpha and the omega |
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Post by Black Knight on Jun 8, 2006 11:55:12 GMT -5
Sigh, money is always the alpha and the omega It is to bad that money is the end all, but they are a business, however busiak's Avengers sold just as well, and yet there was no distruction, little fanfare, and no promice of a different direction. Interesting. |
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Post by bobc on Jun 8, 2006 14:52:33 GMT -5
I want my Avengers back. I could riot at any moment.
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Post by mantech2003 on Jun 10, 2006 5:48:21 GMT -5
Really........I think New Avengers' lineup would have been more welcomed if they had the following lineup -
THOR
Cap
IM
Spidey
Hulk
She-Hulk
Wolverine
And bring back a second team consisting of -
Wonder Man
Vision
Wanda
Hawkeye
Ms Marvel
Falcon
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