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Post by medinnus on Nov 3, 2005 17:06:54 GMT -5
According to the DK Avengers book, Ronin's identity is that of a woman from Daredevil named Echo (I don't read DD, so I can't really provide more information).
He cheated, showing Ronin as clearly male while in-costume.
Bore in the Bendis tradition - The New Avengers fighting any given menace to justify the pagecount, and then someone else resolves the problem - in AvDissed it was Doc Strange, in the Sentry arc it was Emma "What, couldn't you have written in Moondragon???" Frost, and here its Viper sounding a recall because they'd exceeded orders.
God Forbid the Earth's Mightiest Heroes should be able to resolve the plots in their own book...
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 3, 2005 17:24:04 GMT -5
Huh.
I guessed Echo from the outset. I don't think Ronin looks male in-costume AT ALL. It will be interesting to see how this works out, since Echo will be appearing as Echo in a DD spin-off limited series.
This clinches it for me - FOUR whole arcs of the Avengers doing nothing in their own book? Bye-bye, birdie.
- Adrian
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curt
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 30
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Post by curt on Nov 5, 2005 20:46:14 GMT -5
Echoe?
I have no idea. I haven't read DD in ages.
I agree though in that the Avengers are doing nothing on or for themselves. Their best appearance thus far has been in Thunderbolts where they got their a**es handed to them.
Where's the glory?
Curt
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 5, 2005 23:45:15 GMT -5
Well, being the terrible completist that I am, I can say with absolute sincerity that AFAIC, every single appearance of the New Avengers in a book other than New Avengers has been better than all of their appearances in their own book put together.
Except, of course, for the scene in Young Avengers #7 with Cap, Cage and Spidey watching the YA on the news. That was only marginally better than BENDIS!'s work. (If people wish to know what my issue is with that scene, ask - but be warned that it will bring on a Busiek rant.)
- Adrian
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Nov 6, 2005 14:32:20 GMT -5
I have this theory than in some years, it'll be common opinion that BENDIS! is the Rob Liefield of Writing.
Unfortunately, right now, we're living through the 90's of it.
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 6, 2005 18:29:43 GMT -5
Oi! I quite enjoy Liefeld's early-1990s artwork!
- Adrian
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Nov 7, 2005 3:58:47 GMT -5
Oi! I quite enjoy Liefeld's early-1990s artwork! - Adrian  "How Dare You?" ;D |
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 7, 2005 4:46:56 GMT -5
*chuckle* That's MID-1990s, thank-you-very-much!  New Mutants, for example, was great stuff... - Adrian |
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Spider-Man
Great Lakes Avenger
With Great Power There Must Come Great Responsibility
Posts: 36
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Post by Spider-Man on Nov 30, 2005 12:59:09 GMT -5
what was wrong with the YA appearance
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Post by Gee on Dec 12, 2005 12:52:30 GMT -5
Adrian no offence mate but i think you must be kidding yourself if think you guessed echo! unless you can prove it i refuse to believe that you guessed that the clearly male ninja (and it was, i have even asked unbiased others) was a woman. also matt murdock said his friend had the same training and knowledge as him, echo does not have this. she can copy his fighting style but not his knowledge of the hand and the training he recieved from stick.
sorry dude i need to ask - how the hell did you guess?
cheers
gee
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Post by Gee on Dec 12, 2005 12:57:00 GMT -5
Adrian no offence mate but i think you must be kidding yourself if think you guessed echo! unless you can prove it i refuse to believe that you guessed that the clearly male ninja (and it was, i have even asked unbiased others) was a woman. also matt murdock said his friend had the same training and knowledge as him, echo does not have this. she can copy his fighting style but not his knowledge of the hand and the training he recieved from stick.
sorry dude i need to ask - how the hell did you guess?
cheers
gee
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curt
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 30
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Post by curt on Dec 26, 2005 20:45:57 GMT -5
Does it really matter? The way that the story ended one could have inserted any martial artist into the role and came out the same way: Murdock, Colleen Wing, Iron fist, shang Chi... Nothing came of it really. I don't read DD anymore- don't know who Echo is and it did not change the story's outcome in the least. Good job Marvel- you buffered me into nullness...
Curt
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Dec 27, 2005 20:15:39 GMT -5
"Gee", I can PROVE that I guessed Echo ages ago but will not (well, perhaps to Van privately if he asks me, but not to YOU, as I have no idea who you are and don't really care whether you believe me). What I *will* do is explain how I figured it out and confess that I did not do it alone - it was a group effort.  YOU may believe that Ronin looks male. Many others seem to. That NEVER entered my mind. I believed from the outset that Ronin looked very feminine (at least in her earliest appearances - in the Ronin arc she was too inconsistent). That was the first clue. I also guessed this before New Avengers #1 was released, meaning it was more than a year before "murdock said his friend had the same training and knowledge as him" - and even if that information had been present, I would have ignored it, as I do just about everything else by BENDIS! now. As to how I actually managed to guess Echo... first of all, I know everything BENDIS! has written inside out. Jinx, Powers, Daredevil, absolutely everything. I have read every word of every issue of every comic he has ever had published. Know your enemy and all that. When I saw Ronin and thought (as have others) that it was a woman, I knew it would be a woman BENDIS! had used - because that is all he does. He just selects from the same tiny pool of characters. So I went through and looked at a) female characters he had used and b) female characters that solicitations showed he was going to use again soon. To be brutally honest, I initially thought Jessica Jones. I know that's a crap idea, but it is BENDIS! we're dealing with. I knew it would NOT be Elektra (why change her identity when she has a successful franchise of her own?). Spider-Woman was going to be in the NA already, Kat Farrel is not super-material... Basically, knowing that it was an existing Marvel character, knowing that BENDIS! only selected his characters from a small array, and suspecting that it was a woman, I went through all his females one-by-one until I found one with the sort of skills the Ronin costume suggested - I narrowed it down to three characters and in a very extended three-way chat on AIM we decided to settle on Echo. Back to Ronin "looking male", though... this is an entirely different debate. I suspect you are American, "Gee", and what looks male/female to you could very well be different to me. In fact, I am willing to bet that it is. As a non-American, I interpret many of the events and images in American comics differently to the way Americans do; as I am sure that Saudi Arabians interpret them differently to me. In fact, if you look at the archives of www.comicboards.com/avengers/, you will see that MANY people believed Ronin was female from the very beginning. Basically, what looks "male" to you and your culture doesn't necessarily look male to everyone else in the world. I NEVER thought Ronin looked male, and still don't. A flat chest does not a male make. - Adrian God, I hate BENDIS!. |
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Post by Baron Zemo on Jan 24, 2006 22:10:21 GMT -5
Actually, knowing how BENDIS! operates, I too guessed it was a woman all along.. though, to be honest, i was leaning towards Elektra... succesful franchise or not, that didn't stop him from pulling Wolverine and Spider-Man into NA. Oh that's right! Wolverine isn't a member... or he is... sometimes..
I just didn't take into account the fact that BENDIS! likes to use his half-baked characters... after all, that's who we really want to read, right? that's why Alias was a bestseller, and the Pulse still is... what's that? they both gather dust on the racks? Noooo!!
Stupid BENDIS!
Here's to another year of nonsensical drivel, written by a hack who wishes he was Frank Miller.. how sad.. and with civil war coming, you know things will continue among the same lines
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myg65
New Avenger
Posts: 9
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Post by myg65 on Feb 4, 2006 21:53:11 GMT -5
I have to admit (without bashing Bendis) the whole build up to Ronin was anti-clymatic...disapointiing to say the least. Also, the "new line-up" announced for issue 15 (some will go, old friends will return") was the biggest roster change disappointment since Avengers issue 150. Remember that whole mess when the line-up change was slated for that issue (which turned out to be a mostly flash-back back-up story), and readers had to wait until issue 151. well issue 15 certainly didn't live up to the hype!!!
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Post by bobc on Feb 24, 2006 17:49:51 GMT -5
Does anybody even care about Ronin?
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Post by bobc on Mar 22, 2006 20:59:43 GMT -5
Baron please never mention Bendis' name in the same sentence with Frank Miller. I can only take so much.
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