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Post by redstatecap on Mar 6, 2013 23:29:08 GMT -5
Hey y'all, long time no see. Just poking my head in to see what's been going on in the Captain America/Avengers corner of the Marvel universe. Anyone wanna give me a recap of the last three years or so? RSC
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 9, 2013 23:49:00 GMT -5
Anyone? Bueller?
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 10, 2013 7:04:32 GMT -5
Welllllllll, RSC old chum ( very nice to "see" your voice again, BTW!), you may be putting in too tall an order for many on the board to fill, although there may be a couple of deeply-informed stalwarts. Reasons being--- a) The last three years contained an overwhelming (read: chaotic, over-the-top, hyper-marketed, continuity-splintering) amount of developments in the Avengers realm-- from the end of all of the Civil War/Secret Invasion stuff through the multiple "Heroic Age" reboots and eventual failures, through subsequent "events" through whatever is going on at the moment. Man, it puts your question in the realm of something you'd see as an essay requirement for comprehensive exams for a Master's Degree. Yikes! b) The level of disenchantment on the board with the last few years of comics is pretty darned high, and not many folks have been following the current titles very closely-- although there are a few exceptions. And some are putting their toes back in the water again. c) Price point is still a big issue, I'm pretty sure. (Well, okay, it is for me. . . ) Heck, I didn't know Steve was Cap again until somebody here clued me in-! HB
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Post by woodside on Mar 10, 2013 9:30:52 GMT -5
If you're looking for story-wise, a surprising amount of Bendis stuff has ended up being resolved now that's he left the books. For example:
- Scarlet Witch has been on a track of redemption. She helped restore the Mutant race and save Scott Lang. It was also revealed that she was under the influence of super-powerful Life-Force during the events of Disassembled and House of M.
- Norman Osborn, who had managed to take over SHIELD after Secret Invasion, was knocked out of commission when he illegally declared war on Asgard. During this battle, the Sentry and Ares were both killed.
- Captain America briefly became the new head of SHIELD, but after Bucky-Cap was "killed" during the Fear Itself event, he took up the shield again. Bucky wasn't really killed; he was instead put back to work as a spy/assassin. I believe Maria Hill and Nick Fury Jr are running SHIELD now. (Nick Fury Jr is based on the movie/Ultimate version of Nick Fury)
- Doctor Strange became Sorcerer Supreme again
- Luke Cage quit to raise his family
The Avengers consist of two basic teams, but it's a little bit more complicated. There are now four "core" Avengers titles.
Avengers Assemble focuses on the primary team, which based on the movie's roster. The primary team is Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Black Widow, and Hulk. Spider-Woman is also very prominent in this title. It's really by Kelly Sue McCormack.
Avengers also focuses on the primary team, but also has a rotating team of reservists based on the type of threat and style of the mission. Newst additions to the team of back-ups are Cannonball, Sunspot, a new Captain Universe, Hyperion, and Smasher (from the Imperial Guard). The stories featured in "Avengers" run alongside the events of New Avengers, which features an Illuminati-type team that deals with big threats before they become threats. Both books are written by David Hickman, who is known for more sci-fi type, long form stories. So far, arcs have been limited to 2 -3 issues, with a few stand alones that focus on characters.
Uncanny Avengers is second team of a Avengers is actually a joint team with the X-Men. It's Cap, Thor, Scarlet Witch, Rogue, Havok, and Wolverine. This team was formed after the death of of Professor X during a war between the two teams over the Phoenix. Cap felt as though he wasn't doing enough to boost Mutant/human relations and so he formed this team of both X-Men and Avengers.
There are some other Avengers titles out there that I'm in as informed on. "Avengers Arena," which features a lot of teen characters being stuck on an island and having to fight it out for survival (it's not well liked). "Secret Avengers" is basically a SHIELD book about Hawkeye, Black Widow, Winter Soldier and others doing some deep undercover black ops work that they don't remember. "Young Avengers" which is about the young Avengers. "Hawkeye" which is about Clint on his days not being Avenger.
Right now, there's a big event coming called "Age of Ultron," which is supposed to be Bendis' big swan-song for his Avengers tenure.
Personally, I'm rather limited on my funds, so I'm only picking up "Uncanny Avengers."
Your mileage may vary.
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 10, 2013 9:45:25 GMT -5
Thanks!
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 10, 2013 9:53:14 GMT -5
And a major exalt for our man Woodside. Woo-hoo! HB
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 10, 2013 21:38:18 GMT -5
I'm much obliged to woodside for the synopsis and I wish I had time earlier for a more extensive reply. Based on that I don't see a lot of reason to return as a Marvel customer. Not to beat a dead horse, but as I said three years ago it just strikes me that Marvel has gone too far down the road of hype and marketing over storytelling. It almost seems like a 90s redux, which oddly enough was another era I sat out. I believe that Marvel is trying to leverage its properties (ie the Marvel universe and all it's characters) out of the comic medium and into the digital medium, and that the comics are getting the short end of the creative stick. It had a large degree of success with the last several movies, but if Marvel has made a business decision to (in the long run) abandon the comic medium, then I can spend my disposable income elsewhere. All that said, I expect to be a regular poster again. I still love the characters and the medium, and no amount of disappointment with Marvel's creative direction, or lack thereof, is going to change that. I also have a project which has been long-delayed due to work and life, which I am finally at liberty to pick up again.
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Post by ultron69 on Mar 11, 2013 8:29:43 GMT -5
I'm with Humanbelly on this, so thanks to Woodside for the recap!
I also agree with Redstatecap in that I don't think I'm missing much by not buying new Marvel comics.
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Post by woodside on Mar 11, 2013 19:40:19 GMT -5
But their digital medium are still comics . . .
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Post by Marvel Boy on Mar 11, 2013 20:55:00 GMT -5
The problem with Age of Ultron is when does it take place and ultimately, will it have any lasting repercussions on the MU?
The first issue had New York City basically in ruins. As far as I know, no other Marvel title had a ruined New York City this month. Plus, certain titles have tie-in AU issues coming up, issues that are completely separate from their regular runs.
Then there is the time-jumping aspect, apparently Logan and Sue Storm travel into the past and end up changing or altering something.
So will this change be something major or minor? Dunno.
That would be the only reason I'd be interested in reading this story. Otherwise, it sounds like a story that would fit in better with the classic Marvel Graphic Novel line, a story that happened at some point in our heroes' lives.
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 11, 2013 22:13:29 GMT -5
But their digital medium are still comics . . . I'm afraid I have to disagree on this. If you can't hold it, smell it, and turn it over in your hands, it isn't a comic. And that gets me off on another beef of mine -- the thrust towards "electronic ownership" of goods. Let me tell you, if you don't hold something, you don't own it -- you rent it. Can you re-sell those electronic comics you *paid* for? Didn't think so. Let me put this in a real-world context. I work at a well-known used book store. Recently an older lady came in with a huge amount of comics. They were her husbands, who finally agreed to get rid of them because they were retiring and downsizing. She expected a minimal return, basically just to not see them go in the trash. Turns out it was all Silver Age, early Thor, Iron Man, Avengers, Daredevil, you name it. Beautiful Kirby covers that I'd never seen. She walked out of our store with a check for $1700, stunned. Try that with digital comics.
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Post by wundagoreborn on Mar 12, 2013 10:41:30 GMT -5
I have never and never plan to buy a digital comic, so I don't dispute the points you are making.
But 'Do you own it' and 'is it as valuable' are different questions from 'is it a comic?' I think you can answer the 1st 2 questions "No" not affect the answer to the 3rd question.
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 12, 2013 11:48:24 GMT -5
I have never and never plan to buy a digital comic, so I don't dispute the points you are making. But 'Do you own it' and 'is it as valuable' are different questions from 'is it a comic?' I think you can answer the 1st 2 questions "No" not affect the answer to the 3rd question. That is very well put, WGB. I was trying to think of a sensible contribution to make, as the question of "what's a comic?" seems more nuanced in this modern age. In fact, for digital comics, if you can literally download them onto your own disc or drive (as opposed to simply accessing them at a site), then the answer to the your first question would in fact be "yes". I mean, you "own" the music you download onto your ipod, right? It's simply that it's digital content, not tactile. And so the answer remains "no" to the second question, but I agree that it's definitely "yes" for the third. They're comics, yes. The creative process that produces them is essentially the same (just w/ better/different tools for the artists and letterers, perhaps), but they're comics in a format that holds no interest for me whatsoever. Like many folks, the physical, corporeal (for lack of a better word) form of the book is an essential part of the enjoyment. HB
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 12, 2013 11:55:11 GMT -5
Oh! By the way, RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company??), you TOTALLY get the "Inspirational Integrity Above All" Award for being so completely above board with that older lady, and not taking advantage of her lack of knowledge about what she brought in to your store. You're making us all look good, pal-!
HB
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Post by wundagoreborn on Mar 12, 2013 13:29:30 GMT -5
Oh! By the way, RSC (Royal Shakespeare Company??), you TOTALLY get the "Inspirational Integrity Above All" Award for being so completely above board with that older lady, and not taking advantage of her lack of knowledge about what she brought in to your store. You're making us all look good, pal-! HB Second that!! Outstanding.
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Post by ultron69 on Mar 12, 2013 15:08:08 GMT -5
I am anti-digital comic, too. I can't imagine spending money for it. Besides, I spend enough time on the computer as it is.
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Post by woodside on Mar 12, 2013 16:06:24 GMT -5
I'm not huge on digital comics, but with digital books, downloaded movies, etc etc, it's almost impossible not to jump into it. And if anything, it is a good way to reach an audience that may not be comfortable with having a huge amount of long boxes. It's a little easier to go "click click click" and suddenly have the issue in front of you than to go "dig dig dig dig is this it? no dig dig dig."
There will always been a collectbility (is this a word?) aspect comics. I think it'll be a LOOOONG time before print comics go. They're still making money. In fact, according Comichron (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012/2012-12.html) sales of print comics are up 16% over what they were in December 2011. As long as they're making money, we'll see print comics.
Plus, there's a lot of other issues that factor into this, including comic shops and Diamond printing. The Big Two know their money lies in their hardcore base, the majority of which (I believe) still want their paper comics (since they can also get the digital for free for a limited time after buying the comic new, it's like getting two copies).
You do strike a good point about ownership. It's one of the reasons that I still buy books, CDs and paper comics (and I'm only 30, still in the target age bracket). But digital is the future of everything. I think it would be foolish for the comic industry not to get in on this.
FYI, did you guys see Marvel's promotion for 700 free # 1s? For a limited time, they offered 700 first issues for free download. Crazy!
Also, if none of this made sense, it's because I had a two year demanding to sit on my lap the whole time.
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Post by spiderwasp on Mar 12, 2013 18:39:56 GMT -5
I understand that, technically, a digital comic is a comic. But, in reality, I'm more inclined to agree with RSC. If I can't touch them with my hands, thumb through them, collect them, file them away in my long boxes, or know that the possibility to resale them exists, they don't exist. To me, it's like downloading a painting. I can download the Mona Lisa if I wish or it set it as my background but I don't OWN the Mona Lisa. I don't even really own a copy of the Mona Lisa. I just own an image of the Mona Lisa. It's not the same thing at all.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Mar 13, 2013 11:26:00 GMT -5
I agree with the sentiment of the joy of holding, flipping through, and reading a physical comic. But I have also bought plenty of digital comics on comixology for a number of good reasons:
1) Saves money - not towards buying the books, but in gas money. My LCS is over an hour away from my home. Part of my comic budget may go towards paying for the gas I need in order to go get them. Buying digitally allows me to obtain the same exact issues without sacrificing money towards higher gas bills.
2) Convience - digital comics save on physical space. Like you, I have plenty of boxes filled with bagged and boarded comics, but space is running out at home. This also ties in with my desire to read certain titles and stories.
Which I think highlights a big difference in this regard, do you read comics or do you collect comics? I read comics, I don't collect them, meaning I am not overly concerned with completing any runs or buying certain issues or what have you. If you collect them instead, then I certainly see the need for physical copies, a need I find no fault with.
However, I want to read and enjoy the stories. Buying digitally allows me to do this without sacrificing any physical space for issues that in the end, I find that I don't like and thus would clutter up my space and collection.
If I really enjoy those stories, I would then buy the physical TPB collection of those stories to keep.
3) Sampling - comixology runs discount sales and free first issues of a wide variety of comics. This allows for a cheaper way for me to check out these varied titles that I find of interest than if I went to a brick store to buy all those same issues for cover cost. Plus, as with convience, I can check out issues of various Big Two titles to see if I want to read them. If I do, then I decide to follow them. If I don't, I'm not losing or wasting space on books I don't need.
I am not completely digital though. I maintain mail subscriptions to certain titles and I have just come across a recent LCS who offers mail subscriptions as well. Determine your pull list and they will mail your books to you at a discounted price. (Although I do have the option to go physically pick them up, this store is only a half hour away from the my home)
Depending on your situation and circumstances, digital comics can be an affordable solution.
Although that Marvel promo sale recently crashed the comixology servers and locked a large number of consumers out of their accounts. So, the system is not foolproof yet......
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comaboy
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 34
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Post by comaboy on Mar 29, 2013 8:08:50 GMT -5
Are physical comics worth all that much today? The thing that makes Silver Age issues valuable is their scarcity. My impression is that comics are printed in significant numbers, released digitally and then collected into TPBs. Additionally, titles are restarted so often that I have a hard time seeing first issues garnering the kind of attention they did in the past. Put that all together, do modern printed comics have the "legs" to be valuable collectables?
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Post by spiderwasp on Mar 29, 2013 8:20:11 GMT -5
Are physical comics worth all that much today? The thing that makes Silver Age issues valuable is their scarcity. My impression is that comics are printed in significant numbers, released digitally and then collected into TPBs. Additionally, titles are restarted so often that I have a hard time seeing first issues garnering the kind of attention they did in the past. Put that all together, do modern printed comics have the "legs" to be valuable collectables? I think current books don't have the value potential at all for the very reasons you've mentioned. I've also said before that the quality of the paper used detracts from their value. The thicker, stronger paper is indeed better and last longer without showing damage - however, that's the problem. So many issues from the past are in various states of quality if they weren't outright destroyed. That makes a mint copy really worth something. If everyone's copies are in perfect condition 30 years from now, none of them will be worth anything.
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 4, 2013 1:24:04 GMT -5
Are physical comics worth all that much today? The thing that makes Silver Age issues valuable is their scarcity. My impression is that comics are printed in significant numbers, released digitally and then collected into TPBs. Additionally, titles are restarted so often that I have a hard time seeing first issues garnering the kind of attention they did in the past. Put that all together, do modern printed comics have the "legs" to be valuable collectables? I think current books don't have the value potential at all for the very reasons you've mentioned. I've also said before that the quality of the paper used detracts from their value. The thicker, stronger paper is indeed better and last longer without showing damage - however, that's the problem. So many issues from the past are in various states of quality if they weren't outright destroyed. That makes a mint copy really worth something. If everyone's copies are in perfect condition 30 years from now, none of them will be worth anything. Two things drive the collectible book (comic books included) market -- scarcity and condition. Yes, current comics are usually reprinted as a TPB, but that still isn't the comic itself. If we look at production numbers, today's comics start from a position of relative scarcity. Successful titles today print 50k. Successful titles 30 years ago printed 500k. But then, probably more people today bag&board everything immediately and don't treat comics as expendable. So who knows how these things will sort out in 30 years. As to condition, yes the better paper will lessen condition problems and make the minty-level comics less valuable, because much will be minty. If I see anything that truly detracts from the potential value of today's comics, it's that they are a mature and no longer groundbreaking medium.
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comaboy
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 34
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Post by comaboy on Apr 4, 2013 9:13:44 GMT -5
But then, probably more people today bag&board everything immediately and don't treat comics as expendable. Yeah this has to be a big factor; comics in excellent condition are far more common now, unlike when I was a kid.
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