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Post by starfoxxx on Jan 29, 2015 16:10:32 GMT -5
I'm not adding any insight about the current Avengers/New Avengers/Axis>Secret War comics..... because I haven't been reading them. But I DO buy the Marvel Handbooks whenever they appear, and the latest was an Avengers Handbook. I figure I'll save $$$ by checking in with the Handbooks (they're almost always well written) and then I can go back and buy whatever I missed that looks intriguing. Usually the Handbooks will say, for instance, Iceman.....his history in a few paragraphs, then some paragraphs about his recent exploits, like, he joined a new X-team, he fell in love with so-and-so, he fought Magneto, he teamed with Spidey to fight Sandman, then he helped Wolverine fight Sabretooth (all made up stuff, as a for instance) .....well the new Avengers Handbook has updates for Avenger-centric characters, but they're now paragraph after paragraph of Hickman's storylines, Black Swans and Mapmakers and alternate earths......it's REALLY hard to grasp WHAT THE HECK is going on! Now I don't want to read comics as simple as Super-Hero Squad, but Hickman's stuff is really out there. Just making a point, I guess.....will there EVER be a one-and-done or two-three issue storyline EVER again? Well, I'm hitting my LCS to buy Uncanny Avengers #1 this weekend, fingers-crossed, but if it's as confusing (or lame) as the other current Avengers titles, that's it for me.......I'll just wait for the next Avengers Handbook.
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Post by bobc on Jan 29, 2015 16:25:43 GMT -5
Tom--my view on it is pretty much identical. I think the slow burn between T'Challa and Namor has been phenomenal--but seriously, did it really need to take something like 3 years to tie up? I also like how Sam and Roberto have been written--but they actually speak so few times across this 3 year period that sometimes I forgot they were even around. I think when Hickman introduced the Chinese team, he really went over the edge. Now we have Avengers, a new Chinese group, all the alien groups, New Avengers, Secret Avengers, alternate Avengers, Uncanny Avengers and God only knows what else. Is anyone, at this point, NOT an Avenger? I stopped reading X-Men two decades ago because there were just so many X-Men, how could you possibly care much about any of them? It was easy to care when it was just Storm, Peter, Kurt, Logan and Scott. They waited a while to introduce Kitty, so there was time to actually get to know the others first, so that was cool.
By the way, I am now officially the dumbest poster on this forum. After my last tiresome tirade about shoddy art coming out of Marvel--today I purchased Secret Avengers without opening the book and looking at the art. What a big dope! The art is like a child with ADD drew it. I am not exaggerating.
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Post by bobc on Jan 29, 2015 16:35:26 GMT -5
Starry--I am at the point in "History of Marvel Comics" where Jim Shooter, in the mid/late 80's handed down a decree that he wanted all stories to be wrapped up in one or two issues--because he thought new readers were having trouble getting oriented to Marvel comics. What the hell happened? What's really strange to me, is that people today have the attention spans of hummingbirds and yet comics have gotten consistently longer, more drawn out, and complicated. Now Doctor Doom has his own NEW set of Avengers.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 29, 2015 21:55:18 GMT -5
Starry--I am at the point in "History of Marvel Comics" where Jim Shooter, in the mid/late 80's handed down a decree that he wanted all stories to be wrapped up in one or two issues--because he thought new readers were having trouble getting oriented to Marvel comics. What the hell happened? What's really strange to me, is that people today have the attention spans of hummingbirds and yet comics have gotten consistently longer, more drawn out, and complicated. Now Doctor Doom has his own NEW set of Avengers. Which History of Marvel Comics is that, that you're reading, there, bobc? The Sean Howe book, or someone else's? HB
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Post by bobc on Jan 30, 2015 8:44:08 GMT -5
That's a good question, HB. The book is at home and I'm at work--I don't know.
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Post by starfoxxx on Jan 30, 2015 16:12:22 GMT -5
Now Doctor Doom has his own NEW set of Avengers. hey bobc......I actually bought and read the DR DOOM/Avengers comics, they were Avengers World #15-16, (I reviewed them somewhere here, a few weeks ago) and the art and story was actually pretty good, probably some of the better comics I've read in recent years. I had avoided Avengers World like crazy, especially since the covers seemed to only feature Shang-Chi (NOT AN AVENGER, IMO). But ANY comic with Stingray will get me interested. Also, the best part was the story wrapped up in TWO ISSUES! It was a bit anti-climactic (send me a private message and I'll spoil it for you), but still Okay, again, IMO. Now I'm not sure if bobc was referring to this story or something else Marvel has planned with Doom and the Avengers, I'm not sure if they'll become a permanent team, but a team with Stingray and Valkyrie, written and drawn well, intrigues me.
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Post by bobc on Jan 31, 2015 17:05:12 GMT -5
Yeah it's Avengers World--but I had to go look to figure out which of the 10,000 current Avengers titles it was. I like Valkyrie too--she is another character who has been criminally overlooked over the years. I agree that the art is pretty good, particularly the coloring. That one panel where Stingray dives into water is really beautifully colored. But who is this Bloodstone woman? I never heard of her before.
HB--yes it is the Howe book.I just read the part about how Secret Wars was only concocted to sell action figures, and was named Secret Wars because some ad research agency discovered that the words "War" and "Secret" made kids go nuts! MY GOD I was naive-going-on-stupid as a kid! I had no idea how much of Marvel's output over the years was so cynically conceived!
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 1, 2015 6:54:00 GMT -5
Yeah it's Avengers World--but I had to go look to figure out which of the 10,000 current Avengers titles it was. I like Valkyrie too--she is another character who has been criminally overlooked over the years. I agree that the art is pretty good, particularly the coloring. That one panel where Stingray dives into water is really beautifully colored. But who is this Bloodstone woman? I never heard of her before. HB--yes it is the Howe book.I just read the part about how Secret Wars was only concocted to sell action figures, and was named Secret Wars because some ad research agency discovered that the words "War" and "Secret" made kids go nuts! MY GOD I was naive-going-on-stupid as a kid! I had no idea how much of Marvel's output over the years was so cynically conceived! Aaaaa, we were all naive-going-on-stupid at that age, bobc. It's the nature of the beast. Around '92 or '93 we lived next door to a somewhat-troubled 12/13 year-old metalhead wannabe youth who was in absolute denial of the fact that Spinal Tap was not a "real" heavy metal group-- that they were indeed fabricated as part of a delightful satire of the genre. But hey, here's a thought to maybe ease your mind a bit: Just because something is cynically conceived, it's not at all a given that it will be cynically executed. Could anything have been more cynically conceived than The Monkees? And yet could anything have been more of an enduring hoot in the 45 years or so since? Or a more original piece of television? Some aspects of the original Secret Wars kind of grated on my nerves-- but I would be flat lying if I said I didn't enjoy it a heck of a lot back then--! Hmm-- the Bloodstone woman? I'm totally going to guess that she's the daughter of one Ulysses Bloodstone-- who appeared in the Rampaging Hulk Magazine 'way back when. Monster hunter, or something similar--- TRULY unimpressive character. I guess making Him a Her is edgy and forward-thinking. . . or something. (Being the name-claiming offspring of an obscure, ho-hum character cannot be regarded as an improvement, I dinnae think. . . ) HB
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Post by bobc on Feb 1, 2015 18:37:24 GMT -5
That's hilarious, HB--the poor kid probably doesn't have the miles on him to get the joke about Spinal Tap! It's one of my favorite movies. "Giant mudflaps, my baby's got 'em!" Man they just don't write love ballads like that anymore!
HB--I was really just giving myself crap about being naive. I enjoyed Secret Wars, cynically conceived or not! I also learned from that book that the only reason one of my favorite characters, the She-Hulk, was created in the first place was because Marvel thought the producers of "The Hulk" TV show were going to create a female version of the Hulk--and they'd therefore have the copyright! The guy who wrote the first issue remarked that the first She Hulk issue was "really nothing." I guess all legends have feet of clay!
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 1, 2015 23:11:14 GMT -5
That's hilarious, HB--the poor kid probably doesn't have the miles on him to get the joke about Spinal Tap! It's one of my favorite movies. "Giant mudflaps, my baby's got 'em!" Man they just don't write love ballads like that anymore! HB--I was really just giving myself crap about being naive. I enjoyed Secret Wars, cynically conceived or not! I also learned from that book that the only reason one of my favorite characters, the She-Hulk, was created in the first place was because Marvel thought the producers of "The Hulk" TV show were going to create a female version of the Hulk--and they'd therefore have the copyright! The guy who wrote the first issue remarked that the first She Hulk issue was "really nothing." I guess all legends have feet of clay! Oh, that guy was right about that first She-Hulk issue-- I don't disagree! I think the art was a John Buscema rush job that ultimately looked more like Sal B on dependable auto-pilot. It was probably the weakest issue of that whole original run (which wasn't always stellar, no mistake-- but it still kept me engaged, and I was sorry to see it come to an end). HB
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Post by tomspasic on Feb 4, 2015 10:29:49 GMT -5
Well, if we are going to discuss "cynically conceived", it's worth noting that pretty much all comics are published to make money. According to Stan, Fantastic Four was just a cynical response to how well JLA was doing at DC. JLA was just a cynical response to how well JSA and All-Winners Squad had sold years before. And those books were just cynical attempts to cash in on how well books with more than one character sold. Very, very few comic books are published because of some Pure Artistic Vision, or a Need To Tell A Great Story. What's kind of cool is that the artistic vision ans Stories emerge from the cutthroat commercial world. Indeed, I've heard it said that most Great Art and Music and Literature was produced under near factory-like commercial conditions, belting out one commission after another. Dickens, Shakespeare, Michaelangelo, Mozart, all produced commercial work for pay, but all managed to crank out things many consider masterpeices. Of course, I'm not sure if Secret Wars or She-Hulk prove that theorem, I believe it incorporates a variety of Theodore Stugeon's 99% of everything is crap" rule, too...
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 4, 2015 13:04:33 GMT -5
Well, if we are going to discuss "cynically conceived", it's worth noting that pretty much all comics are published to make money. According to Stan, Fantastic Four was just a cynical response to how well JLA was doing at DC. JLA was just a cynical response to how well JSA and All-Winners Squad had sold years before. And those books were just cynical attempts to cash in on how well books with more than one character sold. Very, very few comic books are published because of some Pure Artistic Vision, or a Need To Tell A Great Story. What's kind of cool is that the artistic vision ans Stories emerge from the cutthroat commercial world. Indeed, I've heard it said that most Great Art and Music and Literature was produced under near factory-like commercial conditions, belting out one commission after another. Dickens, Shakespeare, Michaelangelo, Mozart, all produced commercial work for pay, but all managed to crank out things many consider masterpeices. Of course, I'm not sure if Secret Wars or She-Hulk prove that theorem, I believe it incorporates a variety of Theodore Stugeon's 99% of everything is crap" rule, too... "Make a buck, make a buck. . . even in Brooklyn it's the same thing." (Who's got the quote? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?) Ohhhhh, I'm betting you're employing just a touch of hyperbole to make your point there, maybe, TomSp? "Cynical", of course, can't be the simple catch-all descriptor for every creative or artistic venture that's trying to turn a profit. And actually, the venue that comics provide would inevitably attract folks who, indeed, are driven by Pure Artistic Vision and Need To Tell A Great Story (interestingly, there's been an explosion of exactly that type of work, via graphic novels & small press series, in the last decade or so). But nah-- the vast majority of the work falls into a very wide, comfortable grey area in-between. Sometimes the balance goes 'waaaaay to the cynical/commercial. . . sometimes 'waaaaay to the artistically-indulgent. Jumping on a hot trend in an effort to suck fast money out of customers regardless of any true value. . . THAT'S cynical. Think: Multiple Foil-Embossed "Collectible" Covers of a single issue of any book. Think: cancelling and re-starting long-running series with "new" #1 issues (and no other relevant change). Think: Heroes Reborn (sort of-- a desperation play). But coming up with a product that the creator believes in, and that editors/publishers feel might find a popular audience and sell a lot of units? That's not cynical, that's just a happy coordination between artistic merit and market savvy-tude. Think: The New X-Men. Think: Walt Simonson's run on Thor. Think: The Death of Capt.Marvel (and the birth of the graphic novel). I think it's as simple as looking at what the likely initial question was. And when that question is something like, "What two likely title words test strongest for adolescent boys/"-- well, I think it's tippin' one's hand pretty clearly-- yep.. . HB
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Post by tomspasic on Feb 4, 2015 15:22:16 GMT -5
Yes, HB, "cynical" is somewhat hyperbolistic (I think I made that word up). We can't actually know the mental state of anybody else, so it's somewhere between guesswork and inference. "What two likely title words test strongest for adolescent boys/" might still not rule out some integrity. Suppose you've got your Magnum Opus, either fully realized or just sketched out in your imagination. You still have to pitch it and sell it, which is where the catchy titles and exaggerated covers come in handy. "Secret Wars" certainly strongly suggests the cynical mindset, but maybe it's the jaded artist merely resignedly giving the audience what they want.
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 6, 2015 22:19:53 GMT -5
Yep, you're absolutely right-- you immediately had me thinking about how Gene Roddenberry had to pitch STAR TREK to the network execs as being a very straightforward, conventional "space western", 'cause that's what he knew the brass would want to hear. Producers, publishers, Executive Directors--- THAT, I daresay, is where yer most bountiful crop of cynicism is harvested from-! The name "Cary Grant" was fabricated to remind the ear of the name "Clark Gable"-- which was fabricated to remind the ear of "Gary Cooper"--- sheesh!
HB
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Post by Marvel Boy on Mar 29, 2015 9:18:37 GMT -5
I'm not the most tech-savy person in the world so I don't know what happened, it's just for quite a few months there, every time I'd try to come here, the board wouldn't load. It would lag and lag and lag and never load and that was on my laptop, my Kindle Fire too. Strange. So on a whim, I tried it again the other day and BAM! it's back. And so I am. Yeah, I'm still reading the Avengers with some New Avengers tossed in. Since the Time Runs Out storyline began, I've enjoyed the title more, Sam and Roberto have been getting some quality time (at last) and Sam raising a child with Izzy is an interesting development. But Hickman's story is still a bit too GRAND for my taste. From what I gather elsewhere on the Interweb, this culmination of his storyline which leads into Secret Wars has it's roots going all the way back to his run on FF, in fact, seemingly every Marvel title he's written so far has laid the seeds for this event. Give the man credit, he does play the long game but if you haven't read all of his material, then some reveals and twists make little to no sense.
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Post by bobc on May 14, 2015 13:30:33 GMT -5
Glad you're back, MB. Too grand for ya? Have you picked up Secret Wars? Although I enjoyed it, I have to admit that after two issues, I have no idea who is on what team, if there even are teams at this point (other than the Cabal), and since nobody seems to be fighting anybody, why is it called Secret Wars? I really like Hickman--I really do. But he so overextends himself with thousands of characters that you can't even tell what's going on. He also has a habit of enlisting thousands of heroes, then he devotes an entire issue to just one (like Shang Chi). What's the point of that? A few other complaints: Hickman has turned Captain America into a self-righteous, curmudgeony old goat who is not the least bit likeable anymore IMO. He used to be one of the most likeable character in the MU. And finally, while Hickman is very good at writing dialogue, when he goes wrong it is INCREDIBLY wrong. For instance, he just wrote Thanos saying "how goes it?" HUH? Don't get me wrong, H has done wonders with Thanos, and written some fantastic dialogue for him (for instance, when he and the Cabal visit the Necropolis and find that the Illuminati not only have stockpiled doomsday weapons, but also have prisons with captives, Thanos remarks something to the effect of "I think I'm starting to like these humans.") Another cringe-worthy dialogue moment came when Dr Strange unleashes some crazy demon from hell on the faux Justice League in New Avengers, Hickman has the Black Panther looking up at the monster and saying "My God." He's been saying "Goddess" for the whole series! Any of the other characters, with the exception of DR Strange, would have been fine saying that. On the bright side, he is infinitely better at dialogue than a certain someone whom we are mercifully free of these days.
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Post by starfoxxx on May 14, 2015 15:05:56 GMT -5
I tried reading Hickman's AVENGERS and NEW AVENGERS a few years ago (I'm not even sure if either of those titles is still going or if they have been rebooted yet) in my opinion, Hickman was just another Bendis......not very good at writing the Avengers. All promise and nothing delivered. I preferred (and stuck with) Remender's UNCANNY AVENGERS, which got a reboot after a couple years, and a title that I'm not sure will survive the SECRET WAR.
Don't get me wrong....Remender's stuff was far from greatness, but good enough for me to enjoy......Hickman was boring and not even CLOSE to worth the $4 a book.
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Post by bobc on May 14, 2015 15:37:33 GMT -5
I love Remender's stuff.
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Post by spiderwasp on May 14, 2015 16:17:25 GMT -5
I tried reading Hickman's AVENGERS and NEW AVENGERS a few years ago (I'm not even sure if either of those titles is still going or if they have been rebooted yet) in my opinion, Hickman was just another Bendis......not very good at writing the Avengers. All promise and nothing delivered. I preferred (and stuck with) Remender's UNCANNY AVENGERS, which got a reboot after a couple years, and a title that I'm not sure will survive the SECRET WAR. Don't get me wrong....Remender's stuff was far from greatness, but good enough for me to enjoy......Hickman was boring and not even CLOSE to worth the $4 a book. I agree completely. I really tried giving Hickman a chance on both the Fantastic Four and Avengers but his work just isn't worth the money. I hate comics that make me feel stupid and that's exactly what his do. I get into the book and find that I really have no idea what's happening or why. This is partially due to the cast of thousands that you were referring to but it's also because he doesn't even touch storylines for months at a time. I'll pick up and issue and just start to figure out what's happening. The next issue will come out and make no reference to it. Then the next and the next. By the time he gets back to the story, I've completely forgotten what was happening. He also depends way too much on metaphysical things or other dimensions. To me, this is lazy writing. Rather than bothering with being consistent with the established character and history, you just plunk your own version of the character out of nowhere and say "It's an alternate version." I won't go so far as to say he's as bad as Bendis though. For me, saying that about someone is hitting them below the belt. I also agree about Remender. I still long for the days of Roy Thomas, Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern and more but Remender is okay. The only ones that are around today that really make me not miss the old days though are Dan Slott (Usually) and Christos Gage (Consistently.)
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Post by starfoxxx on May 14, 2015 17:42:25 GMT -5
I also agree about Remender. I still long for the days of Roy Thomas, Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern and more but Remender is okay. The only ones that are around today that really make me not miss the old days though are Dan Slott (Usually) and Christos Gage (Consistently.) And I (as usual) agree with spiderwasp......The BEST post-Disassembled writers of Avengers titles IMO are Slott and Gage......Mighty Avengers was really good (except for Hank as the WASP, uggggh), but it suffered from having to include the many tie-ins and general disarray of the MU at the time. Avengers:Initiative and Academy were even better, and Gage handled all the tie-ins exceptionally well, IMO. Then I'd have to include Remender for Uncanny Avengers.....am I missing any good modern era Avengers writers??? (I know there's a lot of Young Avengers fans here; they just never appealed to me)
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Post by Marvel Boy on May 16, 2015 9:00:25 GMT -5
I think #44 was the final issue of this current volume of Avengers. I have yet to read it (just got it in the mail last week) but I think it's rather ironic that one of the few complete comic runs that I own is Hickman's volume of Avengers....go figure.
As for Secret Wars, I've read #1, bought #2 but haven't read it just yet either. For those who may not be aware, the Marvel Universe died last week...along with the Ultimate Universe...and quite a few prominent characters as well. And here's where my cynicism comes into play.
I have long hated the Revolving Comic Door of Death, publishers have trivialized one of the most powerful tools in a writer's arsenal, all in favor of the dollar and goosed sales. So while these characters 'died', I have a hard time accepting that it will stick. Yes, we're not entirely sure yet what the 'new' Marvel Universe will be like after SW but the emotional weight these deaths should invoke isn't there for me given Marvel's track record with these occurrences.
I don't hate Hickman but neither do I see the reasoning behind the overwhelming love he receives elsewhere on the Interweb. I do feel that his big scientific ideas sometimes supersedes actual characterization. I agree bobc, I don't like his wizened old Steve. I have no idea if his Tony is supposed to be the 'inverted' Tony from AXIS or not. And like spiderwasp said, sometimes I get lost in the dialogue because I feel like I missed an important detail somewhere.
But in his defense, Hickman does offer up some interesting character insights occasionally. From #43, I did like Reed's confession to Steve that while Reed may be fractionally smarter than Tony, Tony is better because he is able to multi-task solving problems while Reed normally focuses on one problem at a time.
But in my view, Hickman is far better than Bendis and look at the Time Runs Out story arc for the latest proof. Within TRO, you see Cyclops as the leader as 'Nation X', he has Sentinels at his beckon command, and he's acquired something called a Phoenix Egg.
What is Nation X? Why and how is Scott using Sentinels? And what is a Phoenix Egg and where and how did Scott acquire one? We don't know. Whereas other Marvel books have caught up to TRO's eight month time jump, Bendis hasn't. Because he's known for quite some time that he is leaving the X-franchise, it appears that he has been dragging out unimportant storylines. His Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier was beyond bad and seemed unending. Maybe this new X-development will be explained by Hickman at some point because Bendis, supposedly the head writer in charge of the X-franchise, sure hasn't.
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Post by Marvel Boy on May 17, 2015 11:09:42 GMT -5
Wow, what a difference one issue makes. Secret Wars #2 shows us our first glimpses as to the makeup and workings of this new Battleworld. I've read elsewhere of comments on how this gives off a Game of Thrones vibe, but I can't comment on that since I haven't watched the show nor have I read any of the books.
Still, how the differing Kingdoms are set up, how they relate (or war) with each other, the Shield Wall, I have to admit it, I think Hickman has really stepped it up here (and yes, the idea of a Thor Corps, devoted to protection and upholding justice, love that). And then you throw the Cabal into this mix, how and what is Thanos is going to do about this, I'm interested to see where this is going now. Ribic's art, man oh man, he is creating some stellar work here, easily some of his best ever.
Yeah, there's a whole smorgasbord of tie-in books with this major event, all based (apparently) on various alternate realities and futures that Marvel has given us over the years. I'm not sure yet which ones I may follow, the Spider-Man ones look interesting, a couple of the X-Men books look interesting, the idea of the differing Ghost Riders teaming up looks interesting. One book I will definitely check out is the Thors book by Aaron.
Yeah though, strange as it may sound, my interest level in this event just went up several notches.
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Post by starfoxxx on May 17, 2015 18:50:22 GMT -5
One "modern" AVENGERS spin-off title I really enjoyed was HOUSE OF M: AVENGERS.....it was written by Gage. I really wish Christos Gage or Dan Slott were currently writing an Avenger title.
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Post by bobc on May 18, 2015 8:49:43 GMT -5
I have SW #2--the art is stellar. BUT I have to say something. Do you all watch Game of Thrones?
This issue has so many blatant similarities to Game of Thrones that IMO it is almost plagiarism. They are even drawing Dr Strange so that he looks just like Little Finger, a major character on GOT. It's very distracting. I could list the blatant similarities but I don't want to do spoilers.
After reading issue #2, I went on line to read some reviews to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but Game of Thrones came up over and over. It is pretty shocking.
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Post by humanbelly on May 18, 2015 17:22:35 GMT -5
I have SW #2--the art is stellar. BUT I have to say something. Do you all watch Game of Thrones? This issue has so many blatant similarities to Game of Thrones that IMO it is almost plagiarism. They are even drawing Dr Strange so that he looks just like Little Finger, a major character on GOT. It's very distracting. I could list the blatant similarities but I don't want to do spoilers. After reading issue #2, I went on line to read some reviews to make sure I wasn't imagining things, but Game of Thrones came up over and over. It is pretty shocking. That's. . . that's just so lame! Where does the responsibility for that kind of thing lie/lay? (Oddly enough, it's sorta reminiscent of ol' Martin Goodman's policy of jumping on any hot comic trend to try to milk it dry. In fact, Marvel's never really shied away from that, have they?) Lazy. Laaaaaazy, lazy, lazy, whoever's to blame. . . HB
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Post by bobc on May 18, 2015 18:14:52 GMT -5
Well let's hope that maybe this one issue is an homage or tribute to GOT. I can forgive that or actually admire it. But the next issue had better veer into its own territory. Hickman is a very good writer and can do far better than this.
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Post by bobc on May 18, 2015 18:15:43 GMT -5
To be clear--the issue was very good. Unfortunately I've already seen the script on Game of Thrones.
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Post by Marvel Boy on May 18, 2015 20:49:59 GMT -5
Well, like I said, I've never seen the show, nor read the books so I can't comment on how close or familiar GoT may be to what Hickman has shown so far in this set-up for Battleworld. The concepts of feuding Houses/Kingdoms, a barrier wall to protect against barbarous hordes, a royal hierarchy and such, these are all classic tropes of the fantasy genre, even appearing in sci-fi over the years (Dune springs to mind). There's no denying the immense popularity of GoT though so a comparison to it may be inevitable, but I thought how Hickman had adapted the elements of the MU into this structure was creative and interesting. Or maybe Doom is a fan of the show. My biggest question at the moment, how did the Cabal end up in the Raft? What happened to our heroes who aboard it previously?
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Post by bobc on May 19, 2015 7:50:01 GMT -5
SPOILERS: MB I know that none of these plot devices are exactly new, but this isn't a fantasy book. It has been a science fiction book up until this issue and suddenly it is a fantasy book mixed with sci fi. I think the panel where someone hands over a scroll with a house sigil symbol on it, the exact way news is spread in GOT, the book crossed the line. Then there is the accused man (Sinister)who is about to be taken away, but instead demands a trial by combat. The good guy appears to have won, only to be taken down by the seemingly defeated bad guy. Exact same thing happened in GOT. GOT had as a wall that keep zombies out of the various kingdoms, and so does Secret Wars. Dr Strange looking just like Little Finger. The Greek architecture, the sudden switch to everything seeming medieval? All of this in one issue?
I'm going to stick this out, but I am skeptical. I am far from the only person who has noticed these similarities.
Anyway--I don't know why the Cabal was in that ship instead of Reed and the others. The book is confusing.
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Post by starfoxxx on May 19, 2015 16:23:19 GMT -5
Hey Marvel Boy! I really like your "cornerbox" avatar! I miss those....I guess with Hickman's "Expanded" Avengers roster, a cornerbox woulod take up the whole page!
I want to get a cornerbox tattoo.....at least I feel pretty safe on the AA boards, no one will steal my idea because VERY few really read our posts, right??
MY cornerbox would include the Big Three, Beast, Vizh, Wanda, Hawkeye, and either Tigra or She-Hulk (probably SheHulk for the color!)
I know that's a serious diss to Jan, but her head-shot is just too boring.....maybe a little Wasp flying over the box ala the 60s X-men's Angel!
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