AvX?

[Ignore Me!]

Anyone reading this? Haven't been in a comic store in... years. Have to go two cities over to find one around here.

Just curious. Sounds like something I'd have bought in a second back in the 90's, but that doesn't mean it would have been any good.

[Ignore Me!]

So I'll take that as a no...

[spiderwasp]

Sept 25, 2012 16:19:35 GMT -5 Ignore Me! said:

So I'll take that as a no...

lol. Either that or we're taking your name way too literaly. ;D I know for me, I've avoided it like the plague. The only parts I've read were the crossover parts with Academy. That was pretty good but not that directly tied to the main title. I don't even understand what the whole mess is about.

[Crimson Cowl]

Sept 25, 2012 17:07:11 GMT -5 spiderwasp said:

Sept 25, 2012 16:19:35 GMT -5 Ignore Me! said:

So I'll take that as a no...

lol. Either that or we're taking your name way too literaly.

I'm so glad you had the guts to say that because I totally chickened out on it. But, no, I haven't read it.

[Doctor Bong Crosby]

All I know is that Cyclops, Emma Frost, Colossus, Magik and Namor became (all 5 of them... yeah...) empowered by the Phoenix Force and that later Cyclops reclaimed all the Phoenix Force for himself, killed professor Xavier and became Dark Phoenix... .

[Crimson Cowl]

Sept 26, 2012 4:32:41 GMT -5 Doctor Bong Crosby said:

All I know is that Cyclops, Emma Frost, Colossus, Magik and Namor became (all 5 of them... yeah...) empowered by the Phoenix Force and that later Cyclops reclaimed all the Phoenix Force for himself, killed professor Xavier and became Dark Phoenix... .

Good to hear that Marvel's keeping up its reputation for solid, down to earth storytelling without attempts to pump sales by resorting to sensationalistic shocks that can't be undone without making the overall narrative seem unrealistic, silly and pointless then!

[tomspasic]

I've read it, and a fair number of the tie ins.
The main concept is, for me, cretinous and poorly thought out. I expected to hate everything about it.
Imagine my surprise when I found that for the first six issues or so, I actually kind of liked reading the main title.
I still think the central plot is stupid, but if you ignore that, and everybody acting out of character, it's a mildly diverting superhero slugfest.
Since then it's just dragged on and on, getting increasingly tedious, and now it seems to have been going on for a very long time.
I would say I'll be glad when it's over, but know that will only usher in the next tedious "this will change everything!" Event from the same group of people who have left me unimpressed for the best part of a decade.
Maybe it will read well in the trade, though...

[dlw66]

I just have to laugh, because I keep thinking of a few years ago when some of Marvel's current honchos remarked that stories like "Celestial Madonna" or "Kree-Skrull War" don't hold up. Huh? We can't even get through the tripe they write today, so who would know if it will ever "hold up"??

Don't mess with the classics. Bronze and Silver, Bronze and Silver, Bronze and Silver...

Doug

[Ignore Me!]

I was just curious. They had a write up in the local paper and I've never seen anything about comic books in there before. Figured it was either really good or they just mentioned it because the movie was so big.

Did a little looking online and as soon as I saw "Phoenix Five" I knew it was something better
left alone.

[woodside]

Honestly, I've found it to be "okay." Not nearly as good as some of the other recent Marvel crossover offerings, it's been middle of the road. Some great moments, but nothing incredibly out-standing.

What's been really great about this crossover? The way this crossover is being done. All you need to read the main series. The side-series is disposable, the tie-ins aren't dominated by the main story and are able to do their own thing while still keeping in step with the event.

You guys wouldn't like it.

[Ignore Me!]

It's nice the tie-ins are disposable. I don't know who has the money to get every single issue of these big events. I sure don't. A little different from back in the day when a young Uber was buying comics that stated "Still only 25 cents!"

Time to be snarky, why didn't Reed Richards come up with a mathmatic formula to predict this and prevent it?

[Marvel Boy]

Funny, this concept only took four issues back in the 80s.

Haven't read any of it, not really sure I want to. I've heard that the entire conflict is forced and that certain characterizations are awful.

May get around to reading it in TPB......someday.

[woodside]

Sept 27, 2012 21:56:50 GMT -5 Marvel Boy said:

Funny, this concept only took four issues back in the 80s.

Haven't read any of it, not really sure I want to. I've heard that the entire conflict is forced and that certain characterizations are awful.

May get around to reading it in TPB......someday.

It really depends on the chapter, to be honest The Jason Aaron and Ed Brubaker issues are really excellent. The Bendis chapters are, well, Bendis chapters, you either love or hate them. The Hickman chapters are decent.

There are some really cool character moments -- notably when Spider-Man faces down a Phoenix-powered Colossus and Magik . . . and somehow ends up beating them. It's brilliant.

The crossover does a good job of building off of all the previous major stories -- Disassembled, House of M, Civil War, Messiah Complex, etc etc. I've been re-reading a lot of those in preparation for the last issue next week.

Should be interesting (for me, at least)

[humanbelly]

Sept 27, 2012 20:47:00 GMT -5 woodside said:

Honestly, I've found it to be "okay." Not nearly as good as some of the other recent Marvel crossover offerings, it's been middle of the road. Some great moments, but nothing incredibly out-standing.

What's been really great about this crossover? The way this crossover is being done. All you need to read the main series. The side-series is disposable, the tie-ins aren't dominated by the main story and are able to do their own thing while still keeping in step with the event.

You guys wouldn't like it.

Ha! Thanks, WS. And I personally take your parting assessment as honest and helpful, eh? Letting me know that, as green-pepper pizzas go, it's a pretty good one, but knowing that I can't STAND green peppers, you're lettin' me know that this one won't be for me--

(Hmm-- I think I may have coined that metaphor right here in front of all of you. How did the literary world ever pass up on enlisting me??)

HB

[Ignore Me!]

WS, as someone who has kept up with the past decade of Avengers, how do you think it will be recived ten or twenty years down the road? As dlw pointed out, recent movers and shakers at Marvel itself have said older stories don't hold up. Will collectors go "that's some great stuff or just say "meh"?

[woodside]

Other than Bendis comments about the Korvac Saga, I'm not aware of anyway saying those older stories were out-dated and/or "bad." :/ Either way, we still see plenty of references to them (Secret Invasion has a lot of references to the Kree-Skrull War).

Anyways, you know, it's tough to tell. I think it really depends on this last issue. If we get the pay-off that's been building for 11 issues, it might be fairly well-regarded. I have my fingers crossed Jason Aaron is writing it and he's done no wrong thus far.

I think, honestly, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I've recently felt extremely nostalgic for my comic heydays of the mid-to-late 90s. I recently re-read comics from that time and found that some of it (while enjoyed back then) just didn't stand the test of time.

I don't think AvsX will have the sustainability of, say, the Kree-Skrull War or the Dark Phoenix Saga. There are some juicy bits in there and I've liked it, but I don't really think it'll be as big and iconic as those books.

That being said, out of the recent events (stretching from Disassembled to AvsX), I would point to Civil War as being the most memorable. The comic has been critically well-received, is easily accessible by outside readers, carries a then-timely message, and contains a lot of big "moments" (the Stamford explosion, Cap's escape from SHIELD, Clor's arrival, "the punch," Spider-Man's unmasking, and more). I think the media coverage of this comic will have helped.

Marvel really wants AvsX to be big and splashy and memorable. But . . . I dunno. It's been fun, but it's been too uneven.

[humanbelly]

Sept 30, 2012 1:08:39 GMT -5 woodside said:

Other than Bendis comments about the Korvac Saga, I'm not aware of anyway saying those older stories were out-dated and/or "bad." :/ Either way, we still see plenty of references to them (Secret Invasion has a lot of references to the Kree-Skrull War).

Anyways, you know, it's tough to tell. I think it really depends on this last issue. If we get the pay-off that's been building for 11 issues, it might be fairly well-regarded. I have my fingers crossed Jason Aaron is writing it and he's done no wrong thus far.

I think, honestly, it's all in the eye of the beholder. I've recently felt extremely nostalgic for my comic heydays of the mid-to-late 90s. I recently re-read comics from that time and found that some of it (while enjoyed back then) just didn't stand the test of time.

I don't think AvsX will have the sustainability of, say, the Kree-Skrull War or the Dark Phoenix Saga. There are some juicy bits in there and I've liked it, but I don't really think it'll be as big and iconic as those books.

That being said, out of the recent events (stretching from Disassembled to AvsX), I would point to Civil War as being the most memorable. The comic has been critically well-received, is easily accessible by outside readers, carries a then-timely message, and contains a lot of big "moments" (the Stamford explosion, Cap's escape from SHIELD, Clor's arrival, "the punch," Spider-Man's unmasking, and more). I think the media coverage of this comic will have helped.

Marvel really wants AvsX to be big and splashy and memorable. But . . . I dunno. It's been fun, but it's been too uneven.

As far as it's being memorable and enduring goes, I think that question relates closely to the ongoing "Watershed" discussion we're having else-thread. Technically, I imagine AvX could be considered a watershed, because it looks like the plan is to irrevocably change the status quo with it. . . BUT, in what seems (to me) to be a frenzied, on-going effort to perpetually create the next Kree/Skrull War, or Phoenix Saga, or Korvac Saga, etc, irrevocable change has actually become the status quo, so I strongly suspect that the memory of AvX will be diminished (or at least will its sense of impact) before very long at all, as it will probably be steam-rolled by the next series of event-arcs.

Oddly enough, it's sort of like Stan's old Silver-Age promotional bombast (where every new event/character/comic, etc was going to be "the biggest thing EVER, True Believer!!") taken to its outermost extreme limits. I felt like Marvel had hit the wall with that method of operation many, many years ago, and yet it seems like there's no end in sight . . .

To paraphrase the Incredibles:

"When EVERY story is the biggest one ever, NO story is the biggest one ever-!"

*extra side thought: there's also the whole grimmer question of whether comics as we know them now will even exist 10 or 20 years down the road. I'm kind of not seeing the industry being able to sustain itself for that much longer under its current cost/circulation model, y'know?*

HB

[Marvel Boy]

Sept 27, 2012 22:45:56 GMT -5 woodside said:

It really depends on the chapter, to be honest The Jason Aaron and Ed Brubaker issues are really excellent. The Bendis chapters are, well, Bendis chapters, you either love or hate them. The Hickman chapters are decent.

That's one of the problems I've read about. The writing dynamic here in this event doesn't seem as fluid as say, Waid/Johns/Rucka/Morrison was on DC's weekly mini 52.

On 52, each writer handled certain character beats that meshed together in nearly every issue, allowing for a unified front. On AvX however, with each writer handling a whole entire issue themselves, characterizations may not be consistent throughout the event due to the writer's own views and influences. (Cap seems to be a big example of this)

I think it's the percerption of this event that hurts it the most. X-Men used to be the dominant franchise, now it's the Avengers. X-Men have been steadily re-building themselves, but to reach prominence again, they have to do so through the Avengers. Mutants aren't supposedly going to be as hated as they once were under Claremont's watch.

I'm not saying that is Editorial's position, just fan perception.

[Ignore Me!]

Sept 30, 2012 6:35:31 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

*extra side thought: there's also the whole grimmer question of whether comics as we know them now will even exist 10 or 20 years down the road. I'm kind of not seeing the industry being able to sustain itself for that much longer under its current cost/circulation model, y'know?*

HB

There's that too. Personally, I really don't care for a lot of the dynamics of modern comics. It's nice to have on going arcs but to decompress an entire storyline to the point that single issues aren't even entertaining is a huge mistake.

Back in the day I remember getting a stack of comics for $2 and spending the rest of the day lost in the Marvel Universe. Complete stories with a beginning middle and end. Sometimes you had a two or three parter that made them that much more special.

Then the Eighties came alone with the intruduction to the major crossovers that evolved into these massive yearly events. As HB pointed out, the whole concept is cheapened when it happens every year.

[dlw66]

Sept 30, 2012 1:08:39 GMT -5 woodside said:

Other than Bendis comments about the Korvac Saga, I'm not aware of anyway saying those older stories were out-dated and/or "bad." :/ Either way, we still see plenty of references to them (Secret Invasion has a lot of references to the Kree-Skrull War).

It runs in my mind, and I could be 100% wrong, as the memory ain't what it used to be, that Brevoort said something about one of the "classic" stories...

Anyway, I personally wonder if mega-event after mega-event won't diminish the potential for anything in the last 20 years to go down as a classic. I think many buyers in today's market are really fickle, with no staying power. And it's not really their fault -- with "directions" and creative teams and what is and is not canon changing constantly, why would anyone stick around for the long haul?

Doug

[woodside]

Sept 30, 2012 18:49:31 GMT -5 dlw66 said:

Anyway, I personally wonder if mega-event after mega-event won't diminish the potential for anything in the last 20 years to go down as a classic. I think many buyers in today's market are really fickle, with no staying power. And it's not really their fault -- with "directions" and creative teams and what is and is not canon changing constantly, why would anyone stick around for the long haul?

I disagree (surprise!) about current readers and all the "constant changes." But meh.

But I do agree about mega-events losing their impact and potential classic status, hence why I believe that Civil War will stand the test of time, as it was early enough in the line of events.

[woodside]

The last issue came out today, so I took some this evening to read all 13 issues of the mini-series. I've been reading all of the major mega-events and crossovers over the past few weeks to prep for this and I have to say, when all is said and done, it actually delivered.

The book seemed to put things back in its place: the arrival of new mutants, the end of the Phoenix, and Wanda fully redeemed as a hero again.

I've tended to see the events from Disassembled to AvsX as one huge story (which is what I believe it was intended to be). When read together, the Avengers material feels like one big story. When I have the time and money, I plan on re-reading all of it, as one big saga. I think there's some interesting things in there.

I still think Civil War is the "big classic" story due its scope and more grounded story, but AvsX wasn't too bad.

[Marvel Boy]

My word, the response this last issue, and this whole event, has garnered from the X-community has been both harsh and critical.

They feel that, while the X-Men have achieved more recognition and prominence within the MU, it's only because the Avengers sanctioned it. The level of hatred and animosity towards Cap and Wolverine is surprising.

In a way, I can see their point, but I'm definitely reading this event now just so I can catch up and form my own opinion.

Uncanny Avengers comes out next Wednesday. The future is Now.

[Shiryu]

I thought AvX went on too much, had it been compressed in about 7-8 issues, it would have been fine. It's a lot of flair without substance, but I suppose I enjoyed most of it.

[pulpcitizen]

Oct 7, 2012 11:14:59 GMT -5 Shiryu said:

I thought AvX went on too much, had it been compressed in about 7-8 issues, it would have been fine. It's a lot of flair without substance, but I suppose I enjoyed most of it.

Pretty much the same for me, with the added caveat that the final issue was probably the strongest of the core series, and better than i expected with what went before.