With the DC shorts I hoped they would showcase a character who is maybe a bit out there or hard to have as a guest character. Ultra the Multi-Alien, Sgt.Rock and Easy Company, maybe members of the Power Company(anyone remember that title?) When I heard they were going to show Plastic Man and Animal Man I was so excited. Except they are both played for laughs. I thought it was a chance for DC to say "yeah, we have Superman and Batman, but maybe you'd like the Creeper, or the Haunted Tank, or see Booster Gold and Blue Beetle pull a prank on Black Canary" BTW, I have zero interest in Amethyst, but that segment's light hearted tone felt right, so that was good. On Ultimate Spider-man, which is not as bad as everyone says it is, each episode ends with with Nick Fury narrating a character profile so newer viewers can get a handle on what may be new characters to them.
As for Swamp Thing, I haven't read a whole lot of his comics, but the ones I have were excellent. A few years back DC decided that since ST was a plant elemental, they had to kind of round it out. So the current swamp thing isn't the only one. There have been many, and when they retire they take root in a South American grove to join previous STs as the Parliament of Trees, offering counsel to current Swamp Things. DC tried to expand the idea with a water elemental, Naiad, a wind one, Red Tornado(?) who metal body housed a Raanian wind elemental or something, and Firestorm, who was seen as a flawed elemental because Ronnie Raymond was never supposed to be Firestorm, just Martin Stein, like Solomon Grundy was a flawed plant elemental. The amount of bending-over-backwards to fit the thesis was sometimes goofy but always entertaining. The best part was Brother Power the Geek being simacrulum/homunculus elemental. The Spectre series was also quite good, sometimes horrifying. In one storyline the Spectre threatens to kill everyone in NY state if an innocent man is executed by the state. John Ostrander wrote the entire series as well as turned Firestorm from a superhero into a true nuclear man when he tries to threaten Cold War USA and USSR to disarm their nuclear weapons, or he will. It would never happen, by why couldn't some of these storylines be adapted into direct to DVD editions? Or have an anthology feature bookended by Cain and Abel in the House of Mystery, showing characters like Dr. Fate, Kid Eternity, Wesley Dodds, Etrigan or the Question? ...Now I really miss the Brave and the Bold, because they weren't afraid to turn over a few rocks to find guest stars,really that was the whole point. What a great show. And where is this I-sure it's lousy -but I'll-give-it a-chance show to replace it? I heard after the theater shooting during the newest Batman movie DC decided a Batman show with a gun toting Alfred maybe wasn't a good idea. Jeez, ya think?
I signed the petition too. Here is what gets me. Green Lantern is a quality show. I never thought I'd like a CG show but there you have it. I have a couple of gripes, but basically I'm excited about the universe they're showing me and I'd like to see it explored. If nothing else, it got me wondering what a similiar show starring the Silver Surfer might be like. Marvel has a much richer cosmic cast than DC IMO,if they can get past the Skrulls and the Kree.
So, style wise, I'm willing to give Beware the Batman a shot. It might be okay, it might be really good. What I don't get is I thought Brave and Bold was cancelled to make room for Beware (because god forbid Batman isn't grim in every portrayal) but now it seems we lost BaB AND GL for this show, and I doubt it'll be worth it. Part of it honestly is I don't especially like Batman with sidekicks. BaB alleviated that by having a rotating co-star every episode, and by picking atypical or different takes on those guests. Don't like Guy Gardner? Next week it'll be Plastic Man or Captain Marvel or maybe something crazy like the Creature Commandos. I know everyone reveres Batman TAS, and rightfully so. Some of the episodes don't hold up so well, but it was pretty much uncharted territory so that's understandable. In later years though when it got an edgier artstyle and Robin and Batgirl were in every episode it just lost something. I guess what I'm getting at is while a more lighthearted Batman seems to mix well with company, a grim Batman just doesn't. As for YJ, it's just lost potential. Heck, the 5-year jump alone threw away so much story potential! So after the jump, we have new characters, new situations, new potential. And it's getting cancelled. Well, that happens. But it's being replaced by the Teen Titans? I loved the TT show when it first aired years ago, but I've seen those episodes. What more can they really do with those characters? The tone seems to be more silly this time around, but the first series already did that sometimes, and they were generally pretty weak episodes. Do I really want to see Beast Boy laughing every time some one says "booger?" No, no I don't.
Drew, have you ever seen the Silver Surfer series from about 10 years ago. It was a bit trippy, but I really liked it. I didn't last long, of course.
I agree that a grim Batman is better off alone, and a more lighthearted Batman for teamups, but like you say, they must have a grim & gritty Batman.
You mean the new TT show will be goofier than the last one? I enjoyed the previous show, but it really took me a while to get used to. I found the anime style animation very offputting (perhaps even moreso than CG) and it was goofier than I was ready for. Once I got past that stuff, though, it was a fun show.
Last Edit: Jan 31, 2013 7:33:13 GMT -5 by ultron69
Ultron. I do remember that show. It was around the time Marvel was really pushing their animation branch. There was a sub-par Hulk show which seemed to feature She-Hulk in almost every episode, there was a second rate FF, there was one more I think. The SS program was insanely hard to catch in my area due to various reasons. I saw maybe two episodes and thought it had potential. My favorite Surfer artists were Moebius, Ron Lim and of course King Kirby. The episodes I saw were very Kirbyesque, maybe too much. I love Jack's work, and am immune to how odd Silver Surfer sounds, but some of his DC stuff is just bizarre. The old Superboy series (at around issue #50 or so) started heavily adapting Jack's creations into the series downplaying the sillier elements. The first story arc, for example, finds SB amnesiac and unable to speak on an island full of evolved animals.
It's amazing to me though that Marvel has an entire lack of cohesion in their animation. Iron man: Armored Adventures is a decent CG featuring teen tony, Ultimate Spider-man is a slightly goofy/modern take on Spider-man and his Amazing Friends (waaaay better than the comic, but that's not hard.) Super Hero Squad is sometimes amusing but clearly for little kids, EMH is great but cancelled, and then there are the Japanese-themed (I don't know the right word.) Iron man, Wolverine, and a separate show for the X-men. Wolverine and the X-men, an entirely different show, was just hitting it's stride when it was cancelled... what is going on with Marvel? I know back in the day Marvel execs signed away various characters to different studios but I figured the Disney clout would clear up that mess. Much like the current Batman fiasco, EMH was crushed by success of the movie. Yeah, they could have reworked it slightly to have more in common with the movie, but that makes sense. Better still to scrap it and have a new kewler version of Avengers debut while the buzz around the movie is still hot... except it didn't come out. All that momentum was wasted. I have three nephews under the age of ten. They like Spider-man and Batman because they look cool and are larger than life. If they were to see movie outfit Hawkeye, well, it looked good in the movie, but sitting on a shelf next to Captain America? No contest. What is important to realize is that not every iteration of a character has to look the same. Purple Hawkeye is clearly a super hero. Movie Hawkeye is essentially G.I. Joe.
So why can't deadpan Batman and movie Batman co-exist? Do they think people will be confused or something? Does it somehow dilute the character? Apparently YJ and Teen Titans cannot co-exist; they are too disimiliar and we can't have that. On the old TT shows the sillier episodes, some of which I liked, were prefaced by the theme song being in Japanese. A warning if you didn't like that style. From what I understand, now the entire show is like that. The DC nation clips' version on the TT will be featured, focusing on "humor", sort of their own version of Super Hero Squad... and that's fine, variety is great. But why squash YJ to do so?
"Movie Hawkeye is essentially G.I. Joe." Hey, you're right.
I don't know what The Powers That Be are thinking in that certain shows can't coexist. Thanks for the watning on TT. I guess I'll give it a shot though. I may get used to it, as I did, more or less, on the previous Titans cartoon.
See, even the more serious episodes of TT could have their moments of silliness/exaggeration and that was fine. One episode I remember well was Robin trying to find a new sensei to hone his skills. While he was gone the others raid his closet and play with his gadgets. It had a nice balance. A real problem I can see with a revival of TT is it seems like they've told all the TT stories they really can with that group. I'd liken it to Jean Grey and the Phoenix:I've seen it so many times I don't care anymore. I don't really want to see Deathstroke try to recruit Robin again, I don't want some wacky Tamaranian concoction Starfire cooked up, and I don't want to see anything with Trigon again, ever. My favorite season of TT was the last one, where the essentially get mixed up with the Doom Patrol and attract the attention of the Brotherhood of Evil, who proceed to trash the Titans. It was such a new approach to a series that felt very familiar, somewhat like Invasion. On the other hand, I did like the episodes featuring Ding Dong Daddy, Mad Mod, and Larry, the Robin-mite. I guess we'll see.
My wish, which isn't going to happen, is that the New Teen Titans, (which isn't really new, but whatever,) is a huge flop and either YJ is reinstated or is brought back under the name Teen Titans. If not, casual cartoon viewers might have to see a White Aqualad! Won't they be horribly confused? And what would the audience be for the returning TT show anyway? I'm assuming little kids, but they have no reason to watch because the don't remember the previous series. I guess the jokes will be all new but that's all I got. The whole appeal of TT was the balance. Imagine if Brave and Bold came back and every episode was "Chill of the Night!" or "Legends of the Dark Mite!" that would be a horrible show. I would do desperate things to see an Aquaman show, but only in John DiMaggio stars.
I'm not keen on yet ANOTHER Batman cartoon. I'll look at it just to see what it's like but I'd rather see another Justice League cartoon, especially if Warner is serious about doing a JL movie soon. A cartoon would help build momentum for such a film. Plus, Warner needs to stop thinking of these characters as separate franchises. For years, Batman or Bruce Wayne couldn't appear on Smallville because of what was going on with the Batman movies. That's rubbish. The audience isn't as dumb as they think. We can accept and love a grim Batman along with a super-detective Batman as well as Silver-Agess Fun Batman.
I'm more upset over cancelling Green Lantern. This is a fine cartoon. I love how they've handled the different Corps. The team dynamics have been fun. And I really like Razor and Aia's relationship. Yeah, we may have seen this done before, but this hasn't been forced, they've taken the time to develop this relationship as shown by that last episode where Razor feels the Manhunters can never have true intelligence and emotion, his outburst causing concern and hurt for Aia.
Which is why I'm mad that she 'died', is this a result of the cancellation? Their way of wrapping up plot lines? Man, I hope not. That was brutal and sad how she 'died'. How will Razor handle this, after finally being able to admit his feelings for her? A great show so of course, they cancel it.
As for Young Justice, the writing was on the wall for awhile but it still sucks to find out for real. I liked the TT cartoon, even their new shorts. I'm looking forward more to watching that than the Batman cartoon.
I loved seeing Conner chew out Dick over the rising costs of his plan. Things are spinning out of his control despite his best intentions so how many friendships is he burning to accomplish this?
Good point about the JLA, MB. Who would be on the team/ what would team structure be? I liked the idea of JLU, but there was a ton of characters they never used or were only in the background. It was disappointing to see so much Supergirl, Green Arrow and Green Lantern when characters like Aztek, Waverider(?) or Rick Tyler-Hourman were spotted in the background and never used. Also, they completely crapped on Hawkman. Chances are John Stewart would not be the only/primary GL, due to both the GL and JL movies. Interestingly, apparently younger people whose only exposure to comics was JLU were either unaware Hal, Kyle, or Guy existed, or thought John was the original GL of Earth. By that way of thinking they wouldn't know about any Flash but Wally, are unaware of Nightwing, and probably assume Aquaman is supposed to be missing a hand. So assuming a rotating cast, who is in the league?
Yesterday's Green Lantern was "meh". I actually preferred the Black Lightning short that followed and even think it has some potential as a regular series.
Even though the Invasion thing on Young Justice has dragged on a bit too long for my taste, and I don't care for the 5 year jump, there are some elements of interest, such as what's up with the Beetles and what Lex Luthor's role in all this is, and will be.
I liked the Black Lightning shorts also. I was always frustrated by the "ethnic superfriends" not because they were lame (wonderdog was on the team!) but I'd seen enough comics to know Black Lightning and Red Tornado existed, so it made no sense why they weren't on the show. Later I found out about the legal issues on BL, and it's funny because there have been more fake versions/appearances of BL than the real deal. I liked the tribute episode on JLU, especially when Aquaman takes out the Wonder Twins single-handedly. (no pun intended.)
On YJ, yeah, the overall Reach plot is bringing things to a crawl. The green beetle isn't quite what he seems, but the Lex Luthor thing reminded me first of his everyman project in 52, then how he was a backer of the Ultimen in JLU, and a little bit of Teen Titans vol. 3? the Dan Jurgens one where a group of potential superhumans are kidnapped by aliens and activated. The thing is, while the kidnapped kids are sort of interesting, I really want to see what Roy, Garfield, Nightwing, Impulse, etc. are up to. Also, it could be just me, but I'm getting a little tired of Jamie. It makes sense he'd be a key player in a Reach storyline, and maybe I just want that storyline over, but it seems like we see a lot of Jaime in YJ. He showed up a lot in Brave and Bold, so that probably didn't help. Also, for power armor that can do anything, he only creates wings/a jet, blades, and a sonic cannon. If the Reach really wanted to take out Green Lanterns, wouldn't they have made the scarabs yellow/able to change color?
Post by Marvel Boy on Feb 12, 2013 22:42:55 GMT -5
If I could do a JL cartoon, I would stick with the concept used in JLU, but use it more stringently. The big guns like Superman, WW, and Batman, I wouldn't use at all unless there's some overwhelming threat that took the entire League to combat it. Have different threats and tailor the team to fight that threat.
I would try to split the teams up via type. Have a JL street level team, like with the Question, Nightwing, Huntress, and so on. Have a JL cosmic team (with a GL on it naturally), a magic team( led by Fate who ends up embroiled in one of Constantine's messes) and so on. I would also include the JSA but as their own unit within the League. You want a mentoring program for these up-and-coming youngsters? There you go.
But after all these years, I would use Ted Kord, Blue Beetle. Use Ted with Booster. That would be animation gold.
The last two GL episodes were good, I thought. Didn't really foresee Aya's actions concerning the Anti-Monitor, but Razor should understand that he is dealing with a machine intelligence that takes statements literally. Telling her to shut down everything else to focus on the task at hand was about the worst thing he could've said.
As for the aftermath, seeing the three of them work together sans rings was fun. Just wish they gave a tad more info about the aliens they encountered. I get their hatred for GLs, but they defeat the big monster and the one dude asks what did they do to Mother? What?! :lol:
As for YJ, I'm not tired with the Reach storyline, but I'd rather see the focus switch back to the Light. Vandal was on Rimbor, Luthor taking on the Runaways, how will they deal with the Reach now?
The Runaways episode was good but the Warworld episode was great. Mongul should wipe the floor with the Juniors but seeing how Mal and Bumblebee stopped him was cool.
Just hate to see Jaime converted so soon. And blow his cover by openly taking the Warworld keystone. Couldn't he or Green Beetle have covertly stolen it later on without having Jaime blow his cover?
I like the idea of modular teams, sort of like the Legion Espionage team. In a way, Batman has been culturing his own team for years. We saw some of that in KC, DKR, and Batman Inc. It's a nifty concept, especially if Oliver Queen was second banana and questioned everything Bruce said and maybe Nightwing or Connor Hawke would be the voices of reason. Another bonus would be keeping Ted Kord earthbound while Jaime was exploring the cosmos. I don't see it happening for an animated series, cool as it sounds. The constant is always Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman. Any studio exec is going to insist on that. JLU got around that by giving those three something to do. Superman is on a space mission, Batman has a crisis in Gotham, etc. I'd keep the GL spot in open rotation, maybe throwing in Kilowog, Mogo, even Gnort once in awhile. The Flash, Barry or Wally are fine, though I'd prefer Barry. Hawkgirl/woman without Hawkman makes no sense to me. Hawkman / Hawkwoman would be ideal liasons between the JLA/JSA. I'd go with Vixen first or even Black Canary as a distant second, or have Zatanna as a part timer. J'onn and Aquaman are integral parts of the team. The trend recently is to put Cyborg on the JLA, but that just seems odd. Black Lightning is a much better choice. He's as old/maybe older than the rest of the team, he's mature, level headed, is respected personally/professionally/superheroically? plus he has a power no one else on the JLA has. Add in that maybe he's there a bit reluctantly, but feels the need to be a role model for his daughters. He was a teacher after all. Plus, the guy has been around long enough it's just ridiculous that he doesn't get enough exposure. I'd love to see Atom, Plastic Man, Firestorm, etc, but they are probably better suited as specialists.
Gl has been solid if not surprising, with the questions raised probably never to be answered. YJ was better IMO, Luthor and Savage are probably working to stab the Reach in the back. I'm just glad the Impulse/Neutron negative future plot might see some resolution, nevermind the Krolotaen stuff. Also, it was cool to see Mal get something to do, he was getting dumped on for awhile. I liked the post 52 story where he was bonded with parts of Red Tornado after a Zeta beam error and joined the Doom Patrol. Too bad it didn't last.
Post by Marvel Boy on May 23, 2013 20:54:22 GMT -5
I've been catching up on Season 1 of YJ. Prior to watching Season 2, I only ever saw the first hour-long episode where they rescued Superboy.
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite DC cartoons. The mash-up of Titans and Young Justice characters and situations is fun. Even knowing of their respective futures, seeing how Dick and Wally interact, Megan adopting to human culture, Kaldur grow into his role as a leader, Roy operating on his own, all of it handled in an excellent manner.
What's even more surprising, in the credits, you have the usual credits of creators for Superman, Batman, Aquaman, etc. But they acknowledge the current creators as well. They list Johns in the credit for Miss Martian. And more modern characters such as Psimon, they credit Wolfman and Perez. That is so great to see.
But how Warner has handled the release of this series stinks. Right now, I am watching the combo DVD pack of the first 12 episodes, the first half of Season 1. So I will have to acquire the DVD that contains the rest of Season 1, all of these, by the way, having next to no special features.