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Post by owene on May 5, 2011 15:51:42 GMT -5
Not the early tpb, I was just wondering what people's favourite storylines were involving some classic Marvel villains.
so what are your personal favourite stories or issues featuring the following classic bad guys (reasons why would be great as well)
Kang ( include any incarnation if it is one of the others)
Ultron
the grim Reaper (not in the same league as the others maybe but it is an avengers board)
the red skull
Dr Octopus
Loki
The Mandarin
the mad thinker
Dr Doom
The skrulls or super skrull
Magneto
the leader
Dormammu
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Post by Shiryu on May 5, 2011 17:03:30 GMT -5
Uhm, that's one big list! For the moment I'll pass on Mandarin, Mad Thinker, Skrulls, Leader and Dormannu, chiefly because I've only read a handful of their stories.
For the others
Kang --> The war in Busiek's run. There is something about a villain actually fighting and winning for a change. Most of the times they other keep getting defeated or suddenly win by some deus ex event, only to quickly lose it all in the next issue. But here we see Kang deserving victory, fighting the war and conquering Earth, only for the gradual counterstrike by the Avengers. It would have been the best event ever if only Marvel had gone with it.
Ultron --> I'm torn between the classic issue where he kidnaps Wasp and the Ultron Unlimited storyline. I'll go with the latter for the same reasons given above, having Ultron mass-murder everyone in Slorenia was a powerful image, for an indestructable killing machine he had hardly permanently harmed anyone over the years. The original Jocasta story had an amazing cliffhanger and I can only imagine how shocking it must have been thinking Cap and the others were really dead. But I think that once you know they will be fine (ie, buying the story as a TPB years later) it loses some of its impact.
The Grim Reaper --> Uhm, never ^^ Some of his voodoo stories are amusing, but he is not one of my favourite villains.
The Red Skull --> At the very end of DeMatteis' arc, when we are introduced to the Sisterhood of Sin and he fights an ageing, dying Cap only to die in his arms.
Dr Octopus --> Probably the Master Planner storyline. In general I'm not a huge fan of the very early Silver age -- too much text in the boxes, too many goofy moments -- but Spider-Man is the big exception and the Master Planner story epitomizes that period for me.
Loki --> He is tricky, in the sense that despite appearing almost every other issue, there aren't that many of his stories that really stand out to me. It's like Loki is the constant thorn in Thor's side, but it's Surtur or Mangog, or even Seth who are the true dangerous ones. I'll have to think about this one.
Dr Doom ---> oh boy, there would be so many. Having to pick one, I go for the 10th issue of the original Secret Wars, when he steals the Beyonder's powers. The captions ("the pain would make any other being close his eyes and wish to die, but he is Doom"), the final attempt at deceipt, the way he plays friends and foes alike throughout the entire LS go a long way to make him stand out above every other villain. Other stories I like with him are "This land is mine", and generally all stories showing he has an honorable side too. "Emperor Doom" (again, villain succeeding, albeit a bit too easily) and the Graphic Novel with Dr. Strange to rescue his mother's soul.
Magneto --> I like him more as a hero-ish. Probably "God loves, Man kills" or the Avengers/X-Men crossover.
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Post by starfoxxx on May 6, 2011 15:53:51 GMT -5
I tend to enjoy the villains that are a little less powerful, but i enjoy when they join forces ala the Egghead Masters os Evil or the Mansion Siege Mof E.
The Wrecking Crew (loved seeing them on the cartoon) Absorbing Man Grey Gargoyle Kraven Tiger Shark The Serpent Society (some are duds, some are great) The Lethal Legion (the first 3 LL's are made of villains that work best as a group, IMO) Whirlwind Radioactive Man (he's a VILLAIN!) Sandman (DITTO!) and you gotta love the Taskmaster
I know the request is for stories, but any comic with these villains (and decent writing/art) is probably amongst my favorites.
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Post by humanbelly on May 7, 2011 9:29:33 GMT -5
Oh, I do enjoy these kinds of threads! I've just a couple of minutes, here--- but let me chime in briefly, eh?
The Leader (and his "Awesome Android") in Inc. Hulk #'s 115-117. Mostly a sentimental favorite, of course-- but much of it was the Silver Age Hulk at his best. . . great moments with Betty/Hulk; both Banner AND the Hulk respectively saving the world (which T-Bolt never acknowledges, for some strange reason), the Leader just HOPELESSLY arrogant in his belief that his plans and plasticene prisons are unshakable. A great slugfest with the android in the last segment-- good stuff for ol' HB.
Magneto in his second appearance (I believe) with the All New X-Men-- #'s 111-113, I think. Has them all captive in a base hidden in the magma under Antarctica? Bound and being attended to by a robot nanny? As retribution for his own regression to babyhood earlier in the Defenders? They were just so overmatched by him at that point. . .
Both Doc Ock and Hammerhead in that long arc in Amazing Spiderman where Ock was going to wed Aunt May, and Hammerhead was bent on his own gangster agenda-- culminating with him blowing up Ock's island hideout. It was such a delightfully different, outrageous tack for a villain to take.
Oops-- aaaand out of time already--- Still lurking, all!
HB
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Post by humanbelly on May 7, 2011 19:35:42 GMT -5
ALSO-- really enjoyed The Jackal's extended arc in Amazing Spider-man-- although I was rather disappointed in its ultimate resolution. As with many sub-plots that are based withholding a given villain's true identity, once the identity is finally revealed, it's ALWAYS a let-down (See: Hobgoblin, Red Hulk, and I'm sure many others). In this case, it was just too wildly implausible anyhow, and was predicated on an extremely creepy retrofitted fixation on Gwen by an otherwise minor, minor character. But loved his tenure up til then.
I've also enjoyed Annihilus in several FF arcs. The one during John Byrne's run, where he brutalizes Alycia, and Franklin is found nearly dead, is particularly chilling. An unusually disturbing portrayal of a truly ruthless villain in an era just before that became trendy. A GREAT & informative portrayal of Annihilus comes in the original What If-? run: What if Susan Richards had Died? It's probably one of the best-written issues of the entire run, and is in fact kind of frightening in how it does a subtle perspective-reversal when a dispassionate, vengeance-driven Reed is chasing down a panicked and unhinged Annihilus. His terror is palpable. Good stuff.
HB
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Post by owene on May 8, 2011 11:05:09 GMT -5
Uhm, that's one big list! yeah it kind of grew a bit bigger than I wanted I'd bailed on the title before this, i've picked up the avengers assemble volumes (well apart from the extortionately priced v2) and look forward to reading this but whenever I start reading anything from Busiek's run I get pulled back and think 'maybe i should start earlier...' I think i'll try and read Busiek and Waid's various titles from the period together over the summer holidays. As for me I have really fond memories of the two parter in the 20s that introduces Ravonna and has a fairly low powered avengers team against all of Kang's armies. Not as complicated as some Kang stories but still a favourite. I find Ultron stories quite repetitive, he's long since gone past the point where it really means anything for him to show up, the Mighty Avengers appearances really had no impact at all on me but that Busiek story did break the pattern a bit. I do like the goofy sci-fi concept of the bride of ultron story. He's one that kind of sparked this as I'm not sure I really like any of his stories yet he must be up there in the avengers top 5 or 6 villains. I liked the one around #100 when i read it as a 7 or 8 year old (in a beaten up second hand black and white Marvel UK edition) but i didn't like it as much when i came back to it Nicely different choice, i haven't read much of DeMatteis's run. I'm not sure personally, I like both Gruenwald and Brubaker's take on him but they both had him in the background for dozens of issues at a time rather than had something you could single out as a top story. The silver age ones generally havent aged well, I liked the cosmic cube body swap idea in the first Falcon story but the rest is a bit variable. I love that story (and Ock's debut, one of the best early marvels i've read on my current read through) but the death of Captain Stacey arc would be my favourite. Amazingly kinetic art from Gil Kane. yeah I thought something similar, to the point that I think my favourite where is an antagonist is probably the norn stones story in 116 onwards. whereas there are a lot of Thor stories I prefer to that one where Loki is kind of there manipulating stuff but there's another primary villain. Two of my (and most people I guess) favourite GNs. I'm also fond of the really over the top Latverian set story in the 80s of FF or Waid's Demonic doom storyline (with the FF in latveria in the follow up) I can't remember much of the av/x-men one but I like that period. I really like the Secret Wars 2 crossover where he talks Rachel Summers out of killing some anti-mutant bigots and the issue of New Mutants where Emma Frost sends the Avengers after him. Really remember liking the art on that one.
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Post by owene on May 8, 2011 11:09:32 GMT -5
Oh, I do enjoy these kinds of threads! I've just a couple of minutes, here--- but let me chime in briefly, eh? The Leader (and his "Awesome Android") in Inc. Hulk #'s 115-117. Mostly a sentimental favorite, of course-- but much of it was the Silver Age Hulk at his best. . . great moments with Betty/Hulk; both Banner AND the Hulk respectively saving the world (which T-Bolt never acknowledges, for some strange reason), the Leader just HOPELESSLY arrogant in his belief that his plans and plasticene prisons are unshakable. A great slugfest with the android in the last segment-- good stuff for ol' HB. Magneto in his second appearance (I believe) with the All New X-Men-- #'s 111-113, I think. Has them all captive in a base hidden in the magma under Antarctica? Bound and being attended to by a robot nanny? As retribution for his own regression to babyhood earlier in the Defenders? They were just so overmatched by him at that point. . . Both Doc Ock and Hammerhead in that long arc in Amazing Spiderman where Ock was going to wed Aunt May, and Hammerhead was bent on his own gangster agenda-- culminating with him blowing up Ock's island hideout. It was such a delightfully different, outrageous tack for a villain to take. Oops-- aaaand out of time already--- Still lurking, all! HB Good to see you back. Nice choices, I was after some slightly different ones as I'm getting really curious about the big gap in my knowledge away from my three areas of the silver age, 79-86 and 98-2000. I haven't read the hulk or spider-man ones but will have to dig the essentials out and try them That X-Men story is a real classic, I love the way they used the Beast trying to find his old team mates in the intro and just how out of their depth everyone says they are going up against magneto.
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Post by owene on May 8, 2011 11:11:34 GMT -5
I've also enjoyed Annihilus in several FF arcs. The one during John Byrne's run, where he brutalizes Alycia, and Franklin is found nearly dead, is particularly chilling. An unusually disturbing portrayal of a truly ruthless villain in an era just before that became trendy. A GREAT & informative portrayal of Annihilus comes in the original What If-? run: What if Susan Richards had Died? It's probably one of the best-written issues of the entire run, and is in fact kind of frightening in how it does a subtle perspective-reversal when a dispassionate, vengeance-driven Reed is chasing down a panicked and unhinged Annihilus. His terror is palpable. Good stuff. HB I've always liked just how creepy Annihilus is. One of my first FF stories as a kid was a british reprint of a 70s Annihilus story (I think the one with agatha Harkness from the 110s of FF) and he just seemed so horrible looking to me as a tiny kid. I haven't really read that many stories with him in but he's a really powerful villain. Strange how those first impressions last.
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Post by Doctor Bong Crosby on May 16, 2011 17:38:20 GMT -5
Well, the Leader once detonated a gamma bomb over a small town so, for my money, that's pretty hardcore as well. Has he ever fought the Avengers, though...? I'm not able to remember any such story. Am I just forgetting such confrontation...? I know Byrne has many detractors around here but, IMO, he handled the Mandarin exceedingly well while he was writing Iron Man, finally turning him into a worthy antagonist for Shellhead. In fact, I think he wrote the definitive Mandarin during his "Dragonseed Saga" storyline. I wholeheartedly recommend it. When it comes to Loki, one storyline sticks out for me and, again, I think not many will agree with me: I'm talking about "Acts of Vengeance", which has a terrible reputation, perhaps deservedly so, but I always thought the basic idea behind the story was great, even if the execution of it was poorly handled. I did like the final confrontation between Thor and his stepbrother, though, in the same Isle of Silence which appeared in Avengers #1, where Thor asks Loki if he has no honor, to which the trickster god replies that he's wasting his time talking to him about honor, just as he would talking to a deaf person about music.
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Post by humanbelly on May 16, 2011 20:34:55 GMT -5
Well, the Leader once detonated a gamma bomb over a small town so, for my money, that's pretty hardcore as well. Has he ever fought the Avengers, though...? I'm not able to remember any such story. Am I just forgetting such confrontation...? I know Byrne has many detractors around here but, IMO, he handled the Mandarin exceedingly well while he was writing Iron Man, finally turning him into a worthy antagonist for Shellhead. In fact, I think he wrote the definitive Mandarin during his "Dragonseed Saga" storyline. I wholeheartedly recommend it. When it comes to Loki, one storyline sticks out for me and, again, I think not many will agree with me: I'm talking about "Acts of Vengeance", which has a terrible reputation, perhaps deservedly so, but I always thought the basic idea behind the story was great, even if the execution of it was poorly handled. I did like the final confrontation between Thor and his stepbrother, though, in the same Isle of Silence which appeared in Avengers #1, where Thor asks Loki if he has no honor, to which the trickster god replies that he's wasting his time talking to him about honor, just as he would talking to a deaf person about music. Holy Hoppin' Hormones, Bong--- you've started yourself over again?? Ha! There are, what, four clones of you installed on the board? Five, perhaps? This is yet another of your fiendish plots, eh? You're just going to entirely repopulate the board with. . . well. . . a whole bunch of you's, and then "democratically" seize control, eh? Eh? Why, I'll just bet that you are the ONE LONE FAN who honestly did follow and enjoy the enire Spidey Clone Saga. . . and this is how it's being manifested. Well, or maybe you are hailing from several alternate universes. "Council of Crosstime Bongs"-- or something similar to Reed's recent Reeds-Only Mens Club and Grill. I believe the Leader's utopian city under the arctic ice cap was at least a crossover into the Avengers (or maybe an Annual or something). I do seem to recall Avengers being involved in that storyline at some early point. But yeah-- he slaughtered an entire town of people, and that seems to have been largely forgotten in the intervening years. Much as Kang has apparently been forgiven/absolved/given a pass for enslaving the entire planet, including concentration camps where we WITNESSED people being killed to serve as an object lesson to others. But yeah-- the Leader is plenty bad--- just oddly interesting (even charming) and engaging. HB
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Post by owene on May 17, 2011 3:28:02 GMT -5
Well, the Leader once detonated a gamma bomb over a small town so, for my money, that's pretty hardcore as well. Has he ever fought the Avengers, though...? I'm not able to remember any such story. Am I just forgetting such confrontation...? I know Byrne has many detractors around here but, IMO, he handled the Mandarin exceedingly well while he was writing Iron Man, finally turning him into a worthy antagonist for Shellhead. In fact, I think he wrote the definitive Mandarin during his "Dragonseed Saga" storyline. I wholeheartedly recommend it. Those were the two that came to mind for me as well, it's been a long time since i read the Byrne one and wasn't sure how it would hold up for me but I couldn't think of any others that stood out. I'm not sure i've ever actually read his silver age ones in order though so maybe they aren't bad. I'm not sure the Leader has ever faced anyone but the Hulk , that early PAD story is definitely the one where he was allowed to use his intelligence and ruthlessness really well.
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Post by sharkar on May 18, 2011 18:54:08 GMT -5
I've always liked just how creepy Annihilus is. One of my first FF stories as a kid was a british reprint of a 70s Annihilus story (I think the one with agatha Harkness from the 110s of FF) and he just seemed so horrible looking to me as a tiny kid. I haven't really read that many stories with him in but he's a really powerful villain. Strange how those first impressions last. My first encounter with Annihilus was in FF Annual #6 (his debut), and he was scary and terrible, just as he was in the FF issues Owen mentions. And HB is spot-on about the issues in which Annihilus brutalizes Alicia and Franklin--horrible stuff, as only Byrne can do it. The What If? story HB mentions is powerful too. But a couple of years ago I read FF #140 for the first time and saw this panel, and I actually started to feel some pity for him. edit: added comments about HB's post
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