In Missouri they've been typically showing it on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. I liked having it on my DVR when I got home from work, but moving it to Sunday makes a lot of sense. It is so nice to see a Marvel series done right. Marvel animated has run from decent to horrible, although the direct to DVD stuff was much better than I expected. As a long time comics reader I tend to be quite picky when changes are made, but all the alterations here are reasonable and tend to make sense. Plus, the little touches make up for the alterations. The mercenaries with Klaw being the commandos from Predator, Wild Bill being a Hulkbuster pilot, Bobbi Morse on a mission with Hawkeye, or Simon Williams wearing the original Wonder Man suit.. man, this show is just great! Especially commendable is the voice acting and dialogue. I will disagree with others who said Thor is a bit dumb. He's not from here, so it's more like a fish out of water thing. Sunday's episode is the Masters of Evil attacking the Mansion, and I can't wait. Simon will probably be killed and stored to use as a template for the Vision. I'd love to see Hercules and the Winter Soldier, and Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and the Falcon at some point. Keep in mind we still have Ultron, the Kree-Skrull war, and wouldn't it be neat to see a faithful version of the original Thunderbolts? Oh! And Namor! And the New Warriors! This show has so much potential.
It is so nice to see a Marvel series done right. Marvel animated has run from decent to horrible, although the direct to DVD stuff was much better than I expected. Especially commendable is the voice acting and dialogue. l.
Although we don't catch a lot of televised/cable animation or cartoons in our household these days (we've staunchly resisted ever getting cable-- and heck, we're all too busy anyhow. . . !), it's still always something that's dear to my heart. I'll tell you, one production aspect that is sooooooo often overlooked- or that producers are apparently willing to cut corners on- is the caliber of the voice-over work. When a cartoon doesn't seem to work, and you can't pinpoint the reason why-- take a second to listen to the dialogue and its delivery. "Plastic" acting; overwrought delivery; one level of energy; usually rushed (to make time for commercial breaks); "character voices" that are hopelessly one-dimensional and incapable of conveying any range of thought or emotion. . . and that's just off the top of my head. I find it very hopeful that Disney (whose V/O track record is extremely solid, on the whole) was savy enough to commit the same level of resources and talent to EMH. Now. . . I've gotta find the time to sit down and watch all of the darned thing. . . !
Good LORD--you both read my mind! It's almost like a rule that if you make a Marvel animated series, you have to have the dumbest voice-overs imaginable. Remember that dreadful X-Men cartoon where Storm's voice sounded like a cheesy Victorian era white woman? The minute I heard that, I stopped watching it! She was an African Goddess for God's sake! And I seem to recall seeing some cartoon where the Scarlet Witch had the exact same voice as Storm, only saying dumber stuff like "Winds of Destiny, strike!!" Some crap like that!
But this new Avengers has none of that! God forbid they actually found a black person to do the Panther, one with an African accent! The only character I'm iffy on is Thor, but you know it's a small gripe. Overall--great
Since I'm already gushing, I'd also like to add that I love the weird little team-ups that go on in the series, like the hulk with Hawkeye, Wasp with Thor, that kinda thing. I always like it when a lower powered super hero is teamed with a bigger powered guy--especially when the writer has the chops to make the lower powered one hold his/her own.
Thanks to everyone! It's good to be here. It will be interesting to see where the series goes. Has anyone else noticed Clancy Brown as Odin and Lance Henriksen as the Grim Reaper? Jeff Combs as the Leader is especially good. I totally agree that voice acting can make or break a show.
@shiryui think they are quietly setting up Captain America as leader. In the Gamma world episode when Tony tries to get T'Challa to enter the Gamma dome first and Cap says "leaders lead." That is perfect Captain America writing. Plus, in the Wonder Man and Wakanda episodes Hank Pym criticizes Tony quite a bit. Hands down, the character who has benefited the most in this series is Giant/Ant man. In the latest episode, Zemo is scared of him, at least a little bit. After all, he could potentially be hiding anywhere, ready to kick the Abomination through a wall... Anyway, I'm curious as to what restrictions are placed on the show. They've shown a couple of Fantastic Four villains, but will Doctor Doom ever show up? Will we see the Spider-man rogues? Is the Punisher or perhaps Scourge allowed? I think next week has Captain Marvel, but I'd love to see a throwdown between the Hulk and the Thing,especially if it happens on Yancy street.
I don't know if those peripheral villains will show up--but good lord--already we've seen Modok, Enchantress, Zemo Executioner, Hydra, the Leader, Red Skull, Man Ape, and the list goes on and on. It's almost mind-boggling! In the older Marvel cartoons, they used to just repeat the same two or three stale villains--probably because they wanted to economize on the number of new animations they had to come up with.
I agree that Hank Pym has really benefited from this. The way they show him changing to Giant Man is usually very striking and impressive.
I also think the Wasp comes off as really funny. She has some great lines--so does Tony Stark.
Guys go on as many forums as you can and spread the word! We have to keep this on the air!
I don't know if those peripheral villains will show up--but good lord--already we've seen Modok, Enchantress, Zemo Executioner, Hydra, the Leader, Red Skull, Man Ape, and the list goes on and on. It's almost mind-boggling!
I agree that Hank Pym has really benefited from this. The way they show him changing to Giant Man is usually very striking and impressive.
I also think the Wasp comes off as really funny. She has some great lines--
Yeah, I was pretty blown away when MANDRILL showed up! (pheremones, to boot!)
And so far I really enjoy the characterizations....especially Hank and Jan. I also like the dual use of the Ant-man/Giant-man powers.
Too bad the actual (mainstream Avengers) comics aren't this cool. As I've stated somewhere before----this (so far) is THE cartoon I always dreamed of as a kid. The AVENGERS! Nuff said. ;D
Last Edit: Dec 6, 2010 15:56:40 GMT -5 by starfoxxx
I was impressed when I saw Arnim Zola, the Red Ghost and his super apes, the Constrictor, and Doughboy, not to mention the Griffen, The Mad Thinker and the Grey Gargoyle. This is completely the cartoon I wanted as a kid. I hope they have an episode where Cap and Hawkeye take out the Wrecking Crew. I'd also like an episode centered on Jan, as she is kind of the wallflower of the group. Come to think of it, she led the Avengers before...
Thanks to Shiryu's post earlier, I've managed to get up through episode seven (well, skipping 1 & 2, for continuity's sake).
I can't believe how great and thoroughly engaging this series is! And this may be the only film/video-based format that could accommodate a story this large with SO many different elements to be explored. One almost hates to analyze it too much, saying "HERE'S why it's good--", because one doesn't want to lose the ability to surrender to the story itself. But there are a LOT of things that are being done right-- very right-- and that's clearly the result of conscious choices on the producers' and directors' parts. Respect and adherence to details of story and character are first-rate. Clarity of story-telling seems spot-on-- though I'd be curious to hear opinions (if they exist) from folks (not on this board, clearly) who aren't familiar with the Avengers. Voice-over is top of the line. And a couple of elements that are even more often overlooked: 1) the incidental music is excellent-- which is so surprising for a cartoon, and 2) the foley work (sound effects/environmental sound/sound design) is flat-out astonishing. Those folks are CLEARLY taking an enormous amount of pride in their work here, and are working very closely with what the storyboarders are doing. Watch the initial Ant-Man episode-- the scene where Klaw & his goons break into the lab, and Hank "disappears"--- just watch that whole scene and listen to how well the sound effects combine w/ the animation to create and enhance the mood.
Also, I think what I'm liking about the animation itself is that, while a lot of it still relies on cost-cutting techniques pioneered by (yeesh!) Hanna-Barbera and advanced to death by a lot of cheap anime'-- these guys (Disney, I assume) don't try to ignore those limitations, but put a lot of effort into setting up solid, clever visual sequences to complement them. They compose their shots with care and artistry; and pay a LOT of attention to other pertinent visual detail (how a person's body really does move and flail when struck from behind, for instance). So, while the animation itself isn't groundbreaking, the result is incredibly engaging and dynamic storytelling.
Whoo-- so there's me NOT analyzing something to death. . . good grief. . .
Hey HB--I thank GOD we actually have something to gush over after six years of Bendis! I agree with all your analysis! GUSH AWAY!!
Whoever is running this show obviously understands the Avengers! And Marvel in general! I must also add that this Avengers cartoon proves that the people on this forum are NOT opposed to change, as long as it makes sense and stays with the spirit of the original Avengers. I don't mind Captain America fighting Hydra instead of nazis at all--what I care about is Cap having nobility, providing leadership, etc.
I must also add that this Avengers cartoon proves that the people on this forum are NOT opposed to change, as long as it makes sense and stays with the spirit of the original Avengers. I don't mind Captain America fighting Hydra instead of nazis at all--what I care about is Cap having nobility, providing leadership, etc.
That's a very good point, bobc--- I think you're absolutely right, and I'm glad you pointed it out. Clearly, this cartoon is 'wayyyyy outside of the continuity that we oldsters are accused of being overly-wed to--- but it's like- I don't know, what would you call it?-- a spiritually faithful reboot of the Avengers Saga? It's not trying to break new ground by being edgy or pushing the envelope of acceptability or flat-out trashy & violent (*cough* ULTIMATES *cough*)-- it's just doing a great job of recreating that story in an updated setting. Maybe a little bit like when John Byrne re-booted Superman in the mid-80's.
I do understand that sort of excising the Nazis out of the saga, both here and in the movies, is probably prudent and justifiable. Not only is it a marketing issue, but it also creates a shadow of unnecessary (and unintentional) wound re-opening. I get it-- and for those of us for whom it's important, we recognize what Hydra is more or less representing here.
Hey-- I like the theme song! There's a lyric or two where I go, "You couldn't come up with something at least a little better?"-- but I think that driving pop-rock chorus is really catchy!
HB (now at home, working on the !@#$% Christmas tree. . . )
The animations are indeed pretty good, they are hardly recycling frames as far as I could tell and characters move around quite a lot.
I also love how many "easter eggs" they are throwing in in almost every episode. The latest one had a newspaper referencing the X-Men and the FF for a second or two. I'm sure we will see some anti-Spider-Man Daily Bugle headline before long.
@shiryui think they are quietly setting up Captain America as leader. In the Gamma world episode when Tony tries to get T'Challa to enter the Gamma dome first and Cap says "leaders lead." That is perfect Captain America writing. Plus, in the Wonder Man and Wakanda episodes Hank Pym criticizes Tony quite a bit.
You could be right, after all Cap wasn't team leader in the comics until the Kooky Quartet period, and he already seems to be adjusting to the present. I also liked in the last episode when Black Panther tells Hawkeye that maybe they'll make him team leader, I hope the issue of leadership comes up at some point.
Yeah I think that CA is just too newly thawed at this point--focusing more on being a man out of sync in time. If you think about it, having most everyone you knew dead would be extremely sad. I think he'll get over it in an episode or two, but like Shir said--they are already cramming so much cool stuff into each episode that there probably hasn't been time to develop CA as leader yet.
Hey--I have to ask this. Am I the only one who didn't 'get" the fact that the Black Panther threw CA's shield, saving CA from Zemo? Maybe I'm dense but I replayed that little part like five times before I got what happened. It was very cool, don't get me wrong, but for some reason it sorta lost me.
I got it straight away, but I watched the episode in HD avi file. Maybe the framerate is a bit lower on the YT videos and that detail was lost?
BTW I forgot to say that there is also a 4-issue comic book going on with this series. I haven't found it yet and I don't know if it's just a paper version of what we are watching or a tie-in with new stories, but apparently issues 1 and 2 are out. It titles like the cartoon, "Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes".
Ha ha! I can see that Shriyu! Spider-Man! Threat or Menace? I'm liking Hawkeye and Black Panther hanging out, as BP is a good foil for HE's character. HB, I agree entirely on your take. Really the only thing I would change would be having Nick Fury serving with Cap in well.. not WWII, I guess, but the Hydra war. It would explain the white hair and give Cap a contemporary to touch base with. Still, it's fine the way it is. I actually liked the Ultimates, at least the first two volumes. The Ultimate line sank because people like Bendis change stuff just to change it. When Byrne wrote the Man of Steel (a favorite of mine) it was successful because it honored the past but acknowledged the present. I'm actually curious as to what the creative team could do with other concepts. The obvious one is the JLA, but I'd really dig a Heroes for Hire series.
. Really the only thing I would change would be having Nick Fury serving with Cap in well.. not WWII, I guess, but the Hydra war. It would explain the white hair and give Cap a contemporary to touch base with. Still, it's fine the way it is.
I guess there'd be the problem of truly relative ages (which has been a rather necessarily fudged issue in the MU proper for quite awhile). Without any vitality-enhancing formulas and what-not, Nick and all of the surviving Howling Commandos would now be at least into their early 80's. It's kind of funny to consider that, when Cap was revived in 1964 (am I right on the date?) his "man out of his own time" factor was actually less than 20 years. Oddly enough, if he had been frozen at the end of the Viet Nam war and revived today, that span would be more than doubled! Not really sure if there's anything meaningful there-- just an interesting difference in perception in what we might consider "recent" past and "distant" past.
[Modifying after checking my math: NEARLY doubled, actually-- not MORE THAN doubled. Heh.]
Last Edit: Dec 9, 2010 11:38:21 GMT -5 by humanbelly
Did you all see the latest Avengers episode? It was great!
Guess who appears? Mockingbird! I was always pretty ambivalent towards that character, but this series made me a fan! Whoever is writing this series knows our favorite comic team backwards and forwards! And don't give up on the Black Widow either!
Wow! The series is now on Sundays here in Austin, at 9 am
Yes! And the Cosmic Cube and Skrulls! We even had Carol Danvers in the previous episode! They are introducing ton of old-style Marvel material in this series, updating it to present time whilst still being faithful to the original spirit.
BTW I found the first two issues of the related comic and it is indeed a tie-in with new material. The art is cartoonish but the stories are nice and fill-in little holes in the cartoon continuity, for example the presence of Crimson Dynamo among the Masters of Evil. They even have the Super Adaptoid and Winter Guard! I'd say they are worth a look, especially as a 4-issue mini.
Another great episode! Hawkeye is getting a lot of screen time lately, and that is fine by me! I was concerned that having Bobbi Morse appear was a throw away, but they actually followed through, which shows the writers are paying attention. I loved the mentioning of the "fat man" and Aleksander Lukic. Maybe we'll eventually see Daredevil and the Winter Soldier. I wouldn't mind a episode focused on Captain America, and resurrecting Bucky would be a good way to do that.
I also thought the characterization of Hawkeye was spot on. He's a little arrogant, hot headed, and sometimes a cocky jerk, but he's also a decent guy and dependable teammate. The circus line thrilled me, as did his mysterious escape, the ricochet shot, and the fact that he can run out of arrows. I wouldn't mind if they established that he is skilled in other weapons, since his bow seems to get smashed quite a bit. I don't want to say much more because I don't want to spoil anything. Suffice it to say the ending was quite a surprise, but I have mixed feelings about it. When some of you others see the episode we can discuss it.
I wouldn't mind if they established that he is skilled in other weapons, since his bow seems to get smashed quite a bit
I'd like that too, especially if they introduce the Swordsman. Probably the only thing I didn't like in the episode was how his bow was smashed and yet later it was fine again. I'd rather see Clint disarmed or showed having another little replacement bow stashed somewhere. Oh, and Bobbi's pole becoming telescopic (that's Son Goku's Niobo). But still it's small details in such a good show.
Regarding the ending
SPOILER It's clearly reminishent of Secret Invasion, but as this would be the Skrull's first appearance I'm hopeful that the similarities won't run too deep. I thought SI was not a bad idea per se, just poorly executed.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one with misgivings about the end of the show. The second I saw the "surprise" at the end, I have to admit my stomach got a little queasy. I loved that little bit where Madame Hydra opens the pin on the grenade with her mouth as if relishing it--what a great touch! And then...the "surprise." UGH. I know Shir is eternally optimistic, but I saw that and got a bad feeling about it. We shall see.
Maybe after my worst fears about the new "Man Without Fear" comic came true, I'm feeling a bit cynical.
Not to offend anyone, but nearly anything BMS writes is, to me, quite horrible. I honestly gave his stuff a chance but.. ugh. His slash and burn writing tactics just rub me the wrong way. On the other hand, I thought Geoff Johns on the Avengers was quite good, especially the issue where Jack of Hearts and Scott Lang clash, if anyone remembers that...
I was not a fan of Secret Invasion, I thought it was cheap revisionist stuff. There was some cool stuff in there, but essentially resetting reality when you paint yourself in a corner isn't good writing. But- I think the Skrull reveal will be handled well, based on what we've seen so far. There are so many side stories working it's crazy.
Apparently Nick Fury has a long term plan for Hydra, AIM and Modoc (hah!) are going to exploit the Cosmic Cube, the Black Widow may or may not be a double agent, the Red Skull hasn't been shown since the Captain America episode, we haven't seen the Mandarin yet, and apparently Hydra is uniting the criminal underworld. Loki is up to something, the Leader potentially has increased intelligence, and it's been awhile since all the random super villains have really been shown. I'd love to see a power struggle between the Kingpin, the Hood, and Silvermane or Hammerhead. I usually hate those stories, but the writing/acting is so good I think it would be fun to watch.
Shiryu. In the Ultimates Hawkeye was basically a hero version of Bullseye, and while that was a bit much, if he takes out a bunch of Hydra agents with guns, runs out of arrows and is surrounded... would he pick up a gun and start shooting? I think he would. Anyway, I seem to remember the original Swordsman was a mentor to Hawkeye, then betrayed him and Clint studied under Trickshot... I think he has 3-4 bows stashed in his costume at all times, along with some trick arrowheads. It's a little goofy, but it's a minor issue.
Anyway, I have been wondering about the level of violence allowed on the show. For comparison, in the '90's we had Batman:TAS , which usually featured handguns, and the Spider-man series in which everyone had rayguns and Spidey wasn't allowed to punch anyone. In episode six of Avengers, which is clearly a warzone setting, Bucky crushes a Hydra guy with a drawbridge. That blew my mind. I wonder if they'll ever show Mephisto, (who is basically Satan) or someone like Ghost Rider? I was curious if anyone had some insight on this. I really enjoy analyzing this show, so if anyone wants to just geek out and talk about it, I'd enjoy that.
Shiryu. In the Ultimates Hawkeye was basically a hero version of Bullseye, and while that was a bit much, if he takes out a bunch of Hydra agents with guns, runs out of arrows and is surrounded... would he pick up a gun and start shooting? I think he would.
I think so too - but only to injure rather than to kill unless absolutely necessary. After all an arrow at short range is even deadlier than a bullet but so far IIRC his only victim has been Egghead and that was an accident.
Anyway, I have been wondering about the level of violence allowed on the show. For comparison, in the '90's we had Batman:TAS , which usually featured handguns, and the Spider-man series in which everyone had rayguns and Spidey wasn't allowed to punch anyone.
Considering it's on a Disney channel I wouldn't expect much blood or gore but there could be more cartoonish violence. Batman's series featured guns but the producers were not allowed to use modern-looking guns, which is why everyone had weapons from the 30s despite the series being set a bit more recently ^^ It was a smart way to get around the problem if you ask me.
That is a smart solution. I was just wondering since Hawkeye pointed that sharp arrow at Black Widow like he intended to kill her, only to save Mockingbird instead. I certainly don't want extreme violence, but that part made me wonder. As I recall, Hawkeye shot Egghead's gun to save Hank Pym, then the gun blew up. They put him on trial, but Hawkeye wasn't especially broken up about it. That was a great comic, and the situation seemed pretty close with Viper/skrull, who looked dead at the end.
Right! If she was merely knocked out she should be contained somehow. But skrulls revert to their default shape when killed. I'll watch the episode again and see if I missed something. I didn't know the series was taking a break; but I understand. Maybe a skrull invasion will give us a chance to see the super-skrull, the power-skrull, Nova, Adam Warlock, Thanos, Silver Surfer, and Galactus. Personally, I'm glad that Kang is the next focus since I've always liked the character.