Most improved

[spiderwasp]

Okay, some time back I did a poll regarding the most ruined characters at Marvel. I'm happy to say that, in my opinion, many characters have either greatly improved or on the right track since then so I created another poll. I put as many characters as I could so if you have one that is missing please feel free to start a write-in. Here are my picks.

Thor - When he first returned, it was good but he felt like he wasn't really a part of the MU. I haven't read his Bendis appearances but his other appearances make him seem much more integrated.

Steve Rogers- Yes, I still want him in the Cap suit but even without it, he feels more like Captain America than he did during Civil War.

Quicksilver - I love Pietro. He's in my top 10 favorite characters but for a while there he was pretty awful. The lows he sunk to during "Son of M" were just unpleasant to read and I was afraid we'd lost him forever. Good news - He's back to being obnoxious and loveable at the same time. He is one of the highlights of Avengers Academy.

Speedball- I also love goofy fun characters. Penance was not goofy or fun. Thank goodness he is gone.

Valkyrie - This character was interesting when she first appeared with the Defenders. After a couple of years, that stopped. Now, for the first time, she is very cool.

Tigra - For too long, she was just the ultimate victim. Now she's not.

Hawkeye- Even before Bendis killed him off, he had taken a bad turn by turning overly critical of Hank Pym who he had been great friends with during WCA and sleeping with his woman. When Bendis brought him back from the dead as Ronin, it was worse than when he was dead. His new series with Mockingbird actually feels like the old Hawkeye.

Mockingbird- I was skeptical of a need for her return. I liked her okay in WCA but she was always far from compelling. So far, in the Hawkeye/Mockingbird series, that's just what she is.

Hank Pym- He no longer seems like the joke of the MU. I am so glad to see him getting a little respect. Taking the Wasp identity is still completely lame but if it really is true that he's about to become Giant Man again, well...

and my number one most improved character is...

Sentry - Yes, I know he's dead. Yes, that's the improvement. Now if we could just forget he ever existed, he'd be improved even more. Where's Mephisto when you really need him?

[spiderwasp]

Darn. I should have included Crystal in the poll. Oh well, too late now.

[humanbelly]

Here's an interesting observation regarding your list, SW: No less than FIVE of these characters- Steve, Thor, Hawkeye, Mockingbird, and Valkyrie have been portrayed as being officially, unquestionably, irretrievably DEAD in recent years (well, except maybe Val's "death", which went back a ways longer). But, even with the given advantage that being a living character as opposed to a dead one, I'd still probably call it a toss-up between Steve/Cap & Hawkeye, because I thought both were being handled inconsistently (Steve) or flat-out poorly (Clint) in the pages of the Avengers before their respective demises. Hmm-- but then I'm gonna commit to Clint anyhow, 'cause he was handled even WORSE after his resurrection, and has only in the last 9 months or so become himself again.

In fact, I just read the first World War Hulk series (I know, I know-- I hear the eyebrows raising), and was surprised to see that Greg Pak had Ronin actually sounding like Hawkeye! Big ol' smart mouth in the face of an overmatching opponent-- there was our boy, right there-- in the hands of a good writer! Who knew?

HB

[spiderwasp]

Sept 7, 2010 8:00:53 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

In fact, I just read the first World War Hulk series (I know, I know-- I hear the eyebrows raising), and was surprised to see that Greg Pak had Ronin actually sounding like Hawkeye! Big ol' smart mouth in the face of an overmatching opponent-- there was our boy, right there-- in the hands of a good writer! Who knew?

HB

Of course, right there is the very thing that has caused Bendis to be responsible for destroying so many characters. He doesn't get that it's not about the costume, it's not about the powers, and it's not even about the plot - the sign of a good writer is understanding the characters. We can forgive a lot if the characters ring true.

[humanbelly]

Sept 9, 2010 22:38:33 GMT -5 spiderwasp said:

Sept 7, 2010 8:00:53 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

In fact, I just read the first World War Hulk series (I know, I know-- I hear the eyebrows raising), and was surprised to see that Greg Pak had Ronin actually sounding like Hawkeye! Big ol' smart mouth in the face of an overmatching opponent-- there was our boy, right there-- in the hands of a good writer! Who knew?

HB

Of course, right there is the very thing that has caused Bendis to be responsible for destroying so many characters. He doesn't get that it's not about the costume, it's not about the powers, and it's not even about the plot - the sign of a good writer is understanding the characters. We can forgive a lot if the characters ring true.

I couldn't agree more, SW-- well-put.

Mind you, this particular medium/genre has always had a pretty sizable contingent of readers for whom depth of character is easily a secondary (or even tertiary) consideration. There may be no getting around that. Upon asking, "What do you see as being Wolverine's central character trait?", the response can very often be, "That he totally rips dudes apart with his awesome adamantium claws!" Aaaaaand I guess putting a nose firmly in the air and saying, "No, you boob-- that's what he does, not what he is.", is of course hopelessly and unacceptably elitist and offensive.
BUT- I do wonder if BMB's early roots were maybe as that type of fan? Someone whose tastes were satisfied much more by what was happening than by who it was happening to (or why it was happening, for that matter). Ultimately, his tastes and talents combined to lead him to his current success. And, regardless of personal opinion regarding his work, he has to be considered successful in this field by several objective standards. Is it sustainable? I don't know--- are the X-Men still the sales juggernaut they once were? Did anyone think Claremont could ever go that long on the book? Was it still good by the end of his tenure? There's just nothing in this field that sustains indefinitely, and I kinda fear that Marvel has put an awful lot of eggs into the Avengers basket (anticipating the film) JUST as readers may be getting plenty satiated with the current creative/editorial regime.

I've. . . I've lost track of what I was editorializing about. . .

And now it's time to get on w/ a busy Sunday morning (Costco run). . .

So, I'll leave these thoughts open for all-

HB

[Shiryu]

This needs some thinking. Let's see

- Thor: he was important before, but it felt like his weight in the MU skyrocketed since his death and return. He is also portrayed as a much wiser and calmer character -- more mature probably.

- Bucky: I'm one of those wishing he had never come back, but at least he is finding his place and his own role in the MU. Having him join the Avengers, even in a book written by Bendis, is a nice step forward in that sense.

- Hank Pym: At least he has moved forward from his wife-beater image and MA restored him as one of the geniuses of the MU.

- Justice: In comparison to the star-struck boy of the Busiek era, he has come of age as a good mentor figure recently. I'm just sorry that he broke up with Firestar, I liked them as a couple.

- Hercules: Especially with the upcoming Chaos War. His book was hit and miss for me, but the character has certainly grown in popularity and importance considering he hadn't had an ongoing title... well, ever IIRC.

- Norman Osborn: He is gone from Spidey villain to MU villain sitting alongside the likes of Doom and Loki.