(New) New Avengers

[kidcage]

So I picked up New Avengers #1 (vol. 2) today, and you know... it wasn't half bad.

SPOILERS



Ahem... anywho. It actually seems to build things together well, where at the big celebration in Avengers tower after Siege. With all Avengers and allies there, Luke seems to not like being where he is, and Steve gives Luke the opportunity to still be part of theAvengers, and when Luke seems to not take kindly, Stark asks him for a dollar. With the help of Iron Fist (since Luke doesn't carry cash), he hands Stark a dollar. Stark than hands him the deed to the newly renovated Avengers mansion. Luke says who does he get and Steve's response is anyone he wants, just not Thor and Iron Man.

Also, there's a second running story in which Damon Hellstrom and Dr. Strange have been possessed and attack Brother Voodoo, seems some magics are afoot.

Cage, Jessica, Danielle, and Iron Fist show up at the Avengers mansion and here we get interaction with Victoria Hand and the addition of members of the team (Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, Mockingbird, Hawkeye, Wolverine, and Thing). While I'm not a huge fan of Bendis writing, during the convo with Thing and him coming aboard, he actually writes a decently funny line. While talking about him being so busy with the Fantastic Four, Wolverine pipes up "I'm on two Avengers teams AND the X-Men." When he's asked how he does it, he responds "It's my mutant power. Don't tell anyone."

The issue ends with the obligatory Bendis cliff-hanger, but it really surpised me how this book wasn't BAD. While not necessarily a classic (or as good as I found Secret Avengers and Hawkeye/Mockingbird to be), it does seem to hold itself above mediocrity.

I do like how the team is coming together to: Cage leads, Wolverine, Spider-Man, and Hawkeye seem to be on both teams, and then Ms. Marvel, Mockingbird, Iron Fist, Thing, Victoria Hand, and Jessica Jones bring up the "New Avengers only" Avengers side.

[freedomfighter]

actually if I may offer a slight correction- wolverine says "multitasking- it's my mutant power. don't tell anyone."
and yes this wasn't terrible.
here's the deal. I think when Bendis is dealing in his milieu, which is relatively normal settings with something extraordinary happening ala Powers, he's fine. The minute he tries to go full out with super heroes- the big fight scenes, the crazy origins, the outlandish plots, he leaves his "zone" and it gets all screwy.
he writes ordinary stories with super heroes well enough. he does not write super hero stories well at all, though.

[nova36]

I as well did not mind this issue.

It was nice to see a power-man/iron fist vibe going on and i think bendis got Ben Grimm's voice spot on.

I kinda wish they would have used the old gem theater as a HQ but it is nice to see Avengers mansion again.

I found the story to be better than the main avengers title, all in all I'll give this story arc a try.

;D

[Shiryu]

Same here, a nice issue overall. The two best things for me were having Avengers Mansion rebuilt and that Wolverine line about multitasking. I also liked the lunch they all had together, like a group of friends.

On the down side, Victoria Hand pointing a gun at Luke was outright dumb and I doubt that Tony would sell the Mansion given the affective value it has for him.

[martyp]

Definetly the best of the two Bendis Avengers books out now....but still, not that good.

More and more, it's starting to annoy me that ALL his characters talk like Spidey; they are all joking around all the time.

Now, with the first New Avengers run, we had the secret red line of the Invasion that kept things interesting, but without such a big plan (one of the things why I admire his first Avengers run. that stuff lacks in say the X-titles these days)....I am wondering how long Bendis will stay interesting/entertaining.

[humanbelly]

Nov 27, 2010 14:42:43 GMT -5 martyp said:

Definetly the best of the two Bendis Avengers books out now....but still, not that good.

More and more, it's starting to annoy me that ALL his characters talk like Spidey; they are all joking around all the time.

.

Yep, your latter point is a pretty common refrain around here (well, probably because I'm the one mostly 'fraining it all over the place. . . ). I'd also agree that New Avengers is definitely the better of his two flagship books-- but not to a degree where I'd ever endorse it. This current storyline has a very interesting central plot question, which is keeping me fairly engaged (Who is Agamotto, and what if he wants his eye back??), but the execution of the plot has been terribly slow, and downright awkward, even.

HB

[martyp]

Nov 28, 2010 7:14:02 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

This current storyline has a very interesting central plot question, which is keeping me fairly engaged (Who is Agamotto, and what if he wants his eye back??)

Heheh, too true. Kinda surprised this was never touched on before (right?). I mean, look at how long Dr Strange has been around, and this question has never popped up?

but the execution of the plot has been terribly slow, and downright awkward, even.

Too true. It's that typical writing-for-trade style.
I read his first NA run up until dark reign in trade, after that I switched to monthlies. It really reads better as a trade. As monthlies just not enough exciting stuff happens in one issue.

[humanbelly]

Yep, this title's still just barely creeping along as well. Long, long, LOOOOOOONG dinner-date discussion sequence with Luke & Jessica in the current issue. I mean, if I were a much bigger fan of these two characters, I could probably buy into it-- but I have to ask myself, how much of the current fan-base could possibly be beating down Bendis' door, or flooding his in-box, saying "give us more, MUCH more, of the Cage family! THIS is what we buy this book for!!" As with the incurable Hood fixation, I have to assume that there's an extraordinary (and likely willful) blindness to the fact that just because BMB wants to write about certain characters, it doesn't follow that folks' want to read about them.
The external antagonist for the issue is a single Doombot. In normal storytelling, this would have been a fine early element in a larger sequence of (interesting) events in a single issue. As martyp points out-- comic books are no longer being written for us, even though the charade of monthly publications continues.

Ohhhhhhh bitterbitterbitter is my mood of late. . .

HB

[owene]

I read one recently where the entire issue was dealing with the cage's babysitting situation. Page after Page of 9 panel grids showing off various obscure characters auditioning for the role, all making really obvious wisecracks in the same authorial voice.

One of which was the confusion that a team featuring Dr Strange, Luke Cage and iron fist, wolverine and Spider-Man was more like the Defenders than avengers which seemed pretty apt and like the sort of thing the writer must have realised.

along the way a bunch of characters got laughed at, wolverine and squirrel girl were established as lovers and finally wong turns up at the end speaking in exactly the same US hipster voice as everyone else and becomes the babysitter/live in help.

Wong. If anyone is going to have a different voice/style it would surely be him

a couple of pages on why a super powered family would have child care issues could actually be interesting and insightful but that was the whole issue. Maybe in a tpb it would seem like an interlude

I'm not someone who routinely bashes bendis as i simply haven't read very much and i've never considered myself someone who gets worked up over disrespecting characters or whatever but it was everything people on here say it was.

[humanbelly]

Feb 13, 2011 9:29:57 GMT -5 owene said:

finally wong turns up at the end speaking in exactly the same US hipster voice as everyone else and becomes the babysitter/live in help.

Wong. If anyone is going to have a different voice/style it would surely be him

.

Thank you, owen-- I'd meant to mention this particular affront as well, but lost track. The voice for Wong-- and I want to phrase this carefully, 'cause I absolutely mean no disrespect-- is undeniably that of a snarky, old queen. Or possibly Bendis' idea of a snarky old queen. While there's plenty of room in the Marvel Universe for this personality profile, plastering it in such a completely unprecedented fashion all over Wong (whom, for god's sake, we ALL have come to know over the years-!) is- oh lord, how often have I said this- self-indulgent, lazy, disrespectful of previous writers' works, and indefensibly illegitimate. And it would be just as illegitimate had BMB decided to recast Wong in the mold of a born-again televangelist, or a smooth-talking lounge-lizard, or a devil-may-care frat boy-- the MU characters are PEOPLE to us, and the reckless rending, ripping, transmogrifying, and reconfiguring of their most rudimentary natures is a horrifying affront to (I hope) a significant number of us.

Man-- I think I'd like to pass that senitment on up the ladder. To whom (or how-m?) would I communicate it?

HB

[starfoxxx]

Feb 13, 2011 12:31:11 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

Feb 13, 2011 9:29:57 GMT -5 owene said:

finally wong turns up at the end speaking in exactly the same US hipster voice as everyone else and becomes the babysitter/live in help.

Wong. If anyone is going to have a different voice/style it would surely be him

.

Thank you, owen-- I'd meant to mention this particular affront as well, but lost track. The voice for Wong-- and I want to phrase this carefully, 'cause I absolutely mean no disrespect-- is undeniably that of a snarky, old queen. Or possibly Bendis' idea of a snarky old queen. While there's plenty of room in the Marvel Universe for this personality profile, plastering it in such a completely unprecedented fashion all over Wong (whom, for god's sake, we ALL have come to know over the years-!) is- oh lord, how often have I said this- self-indulgent, lazy, disrespectful of previous writers' works, and indefensibly illegitimate. And it would be just as illegitimate had BMB decided to recast Wong in the mold of a born-again televangelist, or a smooth-talking lounge-lizard, or a devil-may-care frat boy-- the MU characters are PEOPLE to us, and the reckless rending, ripping, transmogrifying, and reconfiguring of their most rudimentary natures is a horrifying affront to (I hope) a significant number of us.

Man-- I think I'd like to pass that senitment on up the ladder. To whom (or how-m?) would I communicate it?

HB

This is why people who grew up loving classic Marvel comics should hate BMB, IMHO. I actually consider him a scumbag, and that's strictly based on his ignorance of why I love Marvel comics.

All you can do is stop buying his garbage.

[humanbelly]

Feb 14, 2011 16:08:48 GMT -5 starfoxxx said:

Feb 13, 2011 12:31:11 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

Thank you, owen-- I'd meant to mention this particular affront as well, but lost track. The voice for Wong-- and I want to phrase this carefully, 'cause I absolutely mean no disrespect-- is undeniably that of a snarky, old queen. Or possibly Bendis' idea of a snarky old queen. While there's plenty of room in the Marvel Universe for this personality profile, plastering it in such a completely unprecedented fashion all over Wong (whom, for god's sake, we ALL have come to know over the years-!) is- oh lord, how often have I said this- self-indulgent, lazy, disrespectful of previous writers' works, and indefensibly illegitimate. And it would be just as illegitimate had BMB decided to recast Wong in the mold of a born-again televangelist, or a smooth-talking lounge-lizard, or a devil-may-care frat boy-- the MU characters are PEOPLE to us, and the reckless rending, ripping, transmogrifying, and reconfiguring of their most rudimentary natures is a horrifying affront to (I hope) a significant number of us.

Man-- I think I'd like to pass that senitment on up the ladder. To whom (or how-m?) would I communicate it?

HB

This is why people who grew up loving classic Marvel comics should hate BMB, IMHO. I actually consider him a scumbag, and that's strictly based on his ignorance of why I love Marvel comics.

All you can do is stop buying his garbage.

A co-worker recently admonished me, in fact, for not being more dilligent about "voting with my wallet"-- and I know you guys are right about that in the larger scope. But I still have misgivings that it may not have any effect. Heck, I've done that (through attrition) with X-men & Spiderman over the years--- I have yet to see Pete & MJ's marital status restored. I did it with Cap-- but Bucky's still wearing the uniform.

Is it possible to actually engage the creative or editorial staff at Marvel about these issues that seem so destructive? It used to be-- but I don't have any sense of that characteristic back-&-forth relationship with them anymore. As much as I/we may rant away on a board like this, the eyes & ears here aren't ultimately the ones that need to witness our concerns. Any idea of the current receptivity up there?

HB

[spiderwasp]

Feb 14, 2011 16:27:12 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

A co-worker recently admonished me, in fact, for not being more dilligent about "voting with my wallet"-- and I know you guys are right about that in the larger scope. But I still have misgivings that it may not have any effect. Heck, I've done that (through attrition) with X-men & Spiderman over the years--- I have yet to see Pete & MJ's marital status restored. I did it with Cap-- but Bucky's still wearing the uniform.


HB

So, do you vote? I do, but there have many times that the people I've voted for haven't won. I still know know my vote counts. I feel the same way about buying garbage. I detest Bendis with a passion. I cannot, for the life of me figure out why he isn't standing in the unemployment line . I stopped buying all titles that he writes months ago. He is still employed but I have to know that even though I may not be getting him kicked off my favorite books, I'm not part of the reason he's there. I can take some small satisfaction in knowing that he's there despite me, not because of me.

[humanbelly]

I'm not quite sure the voting analogy is 100% solid, though, SW. (But yep, I do indeed vote. Absolutely my civic duty). Voting is an innately pro-active measure, where you give direct voice to your beliefs, desires, perceived rights, etc. Even when your candidate loses, you know that your support for your candidate is still quantifiable and merits consideration from his opponent (well, in theory).
Simply not buying the book will of course be effective in the very long term, given enough like-minded folks who do the same. But it also seems like giving up on the possibility that it could become good again. And silence isn't a very strong advocate when the remaining voices- even if they're few- are all clamoring how great these books are right now. The only feedback is positive. Emporer's New Clothes syndrome, kinda.
In this sense, the voting analogy would sort of suggest that dropping the book would be more like quitting the country if one's candidate doesn't win (which I, of course, know isn't the direction you were heading in with it). At the same time, every decision will be driven with sales as the bottom line (basically heard that directly from an editor's mouth once), so there may be no other alternative.

I don't know--- I'm as wishy-washy as they come sometimes. Possibly, if I'm intent on being proactive, then my subscription $$ are also buying me the right to get directly on Marvel's case a lot more than I've done in the past, and I just need to commit to doing that. Probably starting on their own boards would be a good plan. . .

Hey, thanks for giving me food for thought, eh?

HB

[starfoxxx]

Feb 14, 2011 21:09:36 GMT -5 spiderwasp said:

Feb 14, 2011 16:27:12 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

A co-worker recently admonished me, in fact, for not being more dilligent about "voting with my wallet"-- and I know you guys are right about that in the larger scope. But I still have misgivings that it may not have any effect. Heck, I've done that (through attrition) with X-men & Spiderman over the years--- I have yet to see Pete & MJ's marital status restored. I did it with Cap-- but Bucky's still wearing the uniform.


HB

So, do you vote? I do, but there have many times that the people I've voted for haven't won. I still know know my vote counts. I feel the same way about buying garbage. I detest Bendis with a passion. I cannot, for the life of me figure out why he isn't standing in the unemployment line . I stopped buying all titles that he writes months ago. He is still employed but I have to know that even though I may not be getting him kicked off my favorite books, I'm not part of the reason he's there. I can take some small satisfaction in knowing that he's there despite me, not because of me.

Spiderwasp, I had to give you your #50 exalt/karma point, for once again, eloquently stating my exact thoughts. Not only am i a Bendis-hater, but i recently realized that many of the kudos earned by Bendis were from his early Ultimate Spider-man stories. And I'll admit i've never read Ult Spidey, but it's not like BMB had to come up with an original idea there---hey let's make Spidey A TEENAGER. Wow, that's never been done before. Still haven't bought any Bendis books since New Avengers #50.......right now I'm loving Gage's Academy, Abnett/Lanning's Heroes4Hire (took me a while to warm up to it, but it's pretty darn fun), and Levitz's new Legion stuff. These guys should get the Avengers gig, not BMB.

[humanbelly]

Waiting in the mall while Daughter of HB is at dance class-- which gives a fellow a chance to yammer on probably more than anyone cares for him to! (Fair warning, friends. . .)

So, I did indeed go over and check out the Avengers boards at Marvel's main site. Without going in too deeply, it appeared to me that their whole board system has only been operating since this past May (which doesn't seem possible). I also noticed that the format, tone, and everything showed a noticeable similarity to our own happy community here. Coincidence? Or fiendish conspiracy??

But here's the big thing: A VERY busy, much-used current thread is entitled something like "Does anyone else think Avengers & New Avengers is terrible right now?" (or some near paraphrase).
And I'll tell ya, there is NO lack of agreement from about 95% of the posters there. They sound (dare I say it?) a lot like us. The very same criticisms and complaints, right down the list-- although possibly a shade less harsh than we can sometimes get. (The board monitors are serious about maintaining a respectful tone.) There are other threads that drift into the same subject. And there are at least a couple that discuss intelligently and at length why DC is much more readable and enjoyable than Marvel right now.

And I'm thinking, "This is Marvel's OWN SITE that I'm reading this on! SURELY someone has GOT to be in charge of passing this feedback on up the ladder, right??"

Don't worry, though-- I shan't be lured away to that other, corporately-approved board. This here's muh Avengers home--- I ain't a-never gonna leave it. . .

(Well, unless I'm driven out by torch-wielding peasants or something. But now I'm mixing my movie cliches. . . )

HB

[martyp]

Well, it's been a while since I was here, but life has been hectic lately.

Things have changed comic-wise as well for me.

I was one of the few here who didn't mind Bendis' first New Avengers run.
Sure, I had problems with him writing everyone with a 'Spidey-voice' and missed the classic Avengers feel, but I could read it.


But since the Heroic Age, it has been crap. New Avengers was readable (just), but Avengers was and is utter crap.

I recently quit buying the monthlies because I wanted to switch to trades (hey, they write them in tradeformat already, might as well buy it that way).
So, waiting for the trades....I really don't miss it. At all.

With his first NA run, Bendis had a big long term plan that made his writing bearable, but now it annoyed me more and more with every. Single. Issue.
Time to drop.

Sadly, Secret Avengers, which started out great, will get yet another writer, and I kind of had enough of that as well. I will await reviews of the issues, and I might pick up the trades of this book, but Avengers and New Avengers are dropped for good.

Why marvel? Why two Bendis Avengers books? Why not one with another writer? Diversity!

[humanbelly]

It has honestly been a relief to have stopped reading the titles. It was adding a small but entirely unnecessary level of stress to an already-overstressed daily campaign ("life", I believe we call it. . .). Rather than being a happy diversion, I was feeling quite noticeably worse after every brief reading. That's just nuts.

My subscriptions are still rumbling along, though, so the books do pile up quietly. Out of curiosity, I opened the latest one received-- an issue of New Avengers. Could Not Make Myself Read It. Sort of browsed through-- Norman Osborn creating yet another team of Dark Avengers, using the uniforms and trademarks of their heroic counterparts-- and still managed to come across a throw-the-book-down-in-disgust moment: Norman O. is resurrecting Clint's dead brother, Barney Barton. Gonna make him "Dark Hawkeye", clearly. Oh my god. Nothing-- NOTHING is sacred. It's everything bad that drove me off in the first place-- and it's still blithely going on without any sense of creative respect OR responsibility whatsoever. See? See how it makes me feel bad?

Yep, my cold-turkey decision is still lookin' like the healthy way to go (for me, at least).

HB

[martyp]

Couldn't agree more. Where is an editor when you need one.

The only thing I will miss is Deodato's art. It kicks all sorts of ass.


I have given the X-line another shot, but I have a feeling that it won't end well as well (buying wise).
The only X-title I have enjoyed each month is X-Factor, so I won't be dropping that but the other titles (Legacy, Uncanny and Wolvie & the X-Men) will get one arc to convince me.

I recently started re-reading Claremonts first run.
man, so much stuff happens in there! And characterzation too!
Compared to current comics, the current ones feel so empty...so devoid of...LIFE and JOY.

More and more I'm thinking I should quit reading current comics (with some exceptions ofcourse) and focus on getting the older issues.
They are by far, far superior to the current crap they call Marvel comics.

(again, with some exceptions)

[goldenfist]

NEW AVENGERS IS NOT CRAP MARTYP, IF YOU DON'T LIKE ANY OF
THE STUFF MARVEL PUT'S OUT TODAY THEN GO BACK TO THE OLDER BOOKS.

[martyp]

Dec 6, 2011 13:25:30 GMT -5 goldenfist said:

NEW AVENGERS IS NOT CRAP MARTYP, IF YOU DON'T LIKE ANY OF
THE STUFF MARVEL PUT'S OUT TODAY THEN GO BACK TO THE OLDER BOOKS.

First, I never said New was crap. Read.

Second, no need to shout.

Third, that's what I said I was considering.

But I guess there is hope left for us who want to see someone else getting a shot writing Avengers:
Bendis is leaving!
www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/06/brian-bendis-to-leave-the-avengers-in-2012/