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Post by humanbelly on Feb 10, 2010 6:49:57 GMT -5
To some degree, I do kind of miss some of the restrictions the code imposed in those days. My daughter has a 4th grade friend who she says is a HUGE fan of the New Avengers. I think back to some of the stuff I've read & seen in that title (the entire team hanging naked and barely concealed in the Savage Land; that Skrull being horribly tortured to death by Masque; the extremely coarse language-- just to name a few things), and I can't imagine this being appropriate stuff for a fourth-grader at all. And I'm sure the vast majority of parents have no idea that a title they recognized as "kid-safe" in their youth has since become fare appropriate for teens & adults only. . . Whoops-- went off on an editorial rant--- HB @ HB: Do you know number of the issue ? I don´t know it and I would like have a look at the cover-image. Let's see, let's see-- strung up naked (and discretely barely covered by wandering smoke, camera angles, and possibly word balloons) in the Savage Land was in New Avengers # 4 or 5, I think. The Skrull's ugly demise was during Secret Invasion (naturally), but I couldn't tell you specifically which issue. I read them all in one stretch, and it was in the midst of several issues where the Avengers effectively didn't appear at all. The too-coarse-for-an-8-year-old language has been pretty much throughout the run. The thing is, I'm not a prude at all-- I'm truly not. But the obvious assumption is that comic books will always be available to younger readers, unless they're specifically displayed up high with a "mature readers only" sign nearby. And is any LCS owner not going to sell a copy of New Avengers to a 7 to 10 year old w/out their parents' okay? I truly doubt it. And my other knock, of course, is that it's pure National Enquirer-level sensationalism. Titillation. The language does nothing to help tell a better story. Naked-in-the-Savage-Land even less so, and was even beyond stupid, because a conversation ensued (in those dire circumstances) about how the men had been finding themselves unusually attracted to Jessica/Spiderwoman. Squirm-factor of 11--- and much more appropriate for Heavy Metal magazine, I daresay. (Well, okay-- maybe not that extreme. . . ) The captive Skrull incident is a little different, as that was the story--- but the incident was so revolting that I wished I hadn't read it afterwards. Which seems like a really counter-productive effect to be going for, sales-wise. Whoops-- there you go, Mich--- pulled another editorial rant out of me. . . HB
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Post by bobc on Feb 10, 2010 11:11:38 GMT -5
I'll admit those covers are pretty good.
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Post by sharkar on Feb 12, 2010 13:50:04 GMT -5
I'll admit those covers are pretty good. Glad you like them, Bob. I love how Kane handles the body (both male and female); I like the plasticity of his figures and his contouring (especially when inked by Murphy Anderson). I always liked Gil Kane, too--- but I must confess that his figures always had this odd look to me-- like they were being drawn from those posable, jointed wooden dolls that folks use in art class. Oh. My. God. Humanbelly--I was going to say the exact same thing about how his figures looked like those posable wood figures that some people try to use to learn how to draw human anatomy but I thought nobody would know what I was talking about...Eerie. Courtesy of Infantino... ;D
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Post by michidiers on Feb 14, 2010 8:43:08 GMT -5
The thing is, I'm not a prude at all-- I'm truly not. But the obvious assumption is that comic books will always be available to younger readers, unless they're specifically displayed up high with a "mature readers only" sign nearby. And is any LCS owner not going to sell a copy of New Avengers to a 7 to 10 year old w/out their parents' okay? I truly doubt it. And my other knock, of course, is that it's pure National Enquirer-level sensationalism. Titillation. The language does nothing to help tell a better story. Naked-in-the-Savage-Land even less so, and was even beyond stupid, because a conversation ensued (in those dire circumstances) about how the men had been finding themselves unusually attracted to Jessica/Spiderwoman. Squirm-factor of 11--- and much more appropriate for Heavy Metal magazine, I daresay. (Well, okay-- maybe not that extreme. . . ) The captive Skrull incident is a little different, as that was the story--- but the incident was so revolting that I wished I hadn't read it afterwards. Which seems like a really counter-productive effect to be going for, sales-wise. Whoops-- there you go, Mich--- pulled another editorial rant out of me. . . HB We´ve got nearly the same discussions here in Germany about sex in the current Marvel-superhero issues. Especially the last here in germany released X-Men (US Uncanny X-Men around #500). Brubaker, Fraction an especially drawer Greg Land performed the issues nearly like soft-porns. The quality of the storys degreased and the porn-factor in the storys increased. This is very bad progess and lots of readers don´t like it. I ceased buying and collecting the X-Man by the run Brubaker/LAnd. It was for me to foolish to buy these storys.
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Post by bobc on Feb 16, 2010 13:37:18 GMT -5
Sharkie--if I ever find myself in need of a research assistant, I would hire you in an instant
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Post by michidiers on Feb 18, 2010 9:20:57 GMT -5
The gharstly Grim Raeper appears at the Avenger Mansion. Under the teammates are two spocial members for him. They are like brothers of the Reaper: - the Wonderman, natural born brother of the Reaper, and - Vision, who is programmed with Wondermans brain patterns. To prove beyond doubt, who of them is his real and true brother, he overwhelms the Avengers, puts them in chains and opens a trial : 1) Wonderman and Vision are the culprits (one of them, who isn´t the real brother will die after it - will be exicutioned by the Reapers scythe), 2) the Black Panther is compeled to be the attourney at law, 3) the other teammates are compeled to be the bystanders, 4) and the Grim Reaper is the Prosecuter, Judge and Exicutioner in personal union! After a long trial with a lot of testifys in court, the Grim Reaper comes to the court decision: The Vision isn´t a real brother and has to die! But Wonderman prevents the exicution and saves the life of Vision. He beatens the Reaper, Vision is saved! A crazy court. It reminds me to Franz Kafkas genius narration "The Trial"! I love this mad story. And artist Geoge Perez is in top form!
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Post by sharkar on Feb 22, 2010 21:02:01 GMT -5
A crazy court. It reminds me to Franz Kafkas genius narration "The Trial"! That's an interesting comparison, Michidiers! And even though the story is primarily about the Wonder Man-Vision-Wanda-Reaper dynamic, it's good to see T'Challa playing a prominent part here as the "attorney at law" (as you put it). Shooter's usually pretty good at getting characters involved, even when they're not the main focus of the story.
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Post by sharkar on Feb 22, 2010 21:04:11 GMT -5
Sharkie--if I ever find myself in need of a research assistant, I would hire you in an instant Now that's the best offer I've had all day! ;D
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Post by michidiers on Mar 5, 2010 9:39:12 GMT -5
My last Avengers Comic:After an exhausting-breakdown Dr. Pym awakes without memorys of the occurences of the near past. In the meaning, he is the old-fashioned Ant-Man (of the issues #1 - #3, VOL.I) , he puts on his old Ant-Man costume and heads to the Avenger HQ. There he meets Vision, the Scarlet Witch, Beast and Wonder-Man. In the meaning, that these „new“ Avengers are foes, he beatens them. Only after the little Wasp enters the Mansion the wee hero and his ant-army can be stopped. Hank Pym must be cured. With the application of a „ subliminal recall-inducer“ the Avengers hope to cope Pyms problem. As these first menace is averted, the next foe enters the mansion: Ultron! Ultron is searching for revenge in an ulitimate fight against the Avengers and beatens the whole team immediately and abducts the Ant-Man and the Wasp. The Avengers are beatened again… Crazy: It looks to me, that all foes strolls in and out the hight-tech protected Avenger Mansion like in a public parc. I think, it is unharmfuller to stay at night in Harlem/N.Y. as to live in the Avenger mansion. Positiv: A crazy cover, the Avengers in the menace of an ant-army! And the cute Wasp has got a new very nice costume! Wow!!!
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 5, 2010 12:49:22 GMT -5
My last Avengers Comic:After an exhausting-breakdown Dr. Pym awakes without memorys of the occurences of the near past. In the meaning, he is the old-fashioned Ant-Man (of the issues #1 - #3, VOL.I) , he puts on his old Ant-Man costume and heads to the Avenger HQ. There he meets Vision, the Scarlet Witch, Beast and Wonder-Man. In the meaning, that these „new“ Avengers are foes, he beatens them. Only after the little Wasp enters the Mansion the wee hero and his ant-army can be stopped. Hank Pym must be cured. With the application of a „ subliminal recall-inducer“ the Avengers hope to cope Pyms problem. As these first menace is averted, the next foe enters the mansion: Ultron! Ultron is searching for revenge in an ulitimate fight against the Avengers and beatens the whole team immediately and abducts the Ant-Man and the Wasp. The Avengers are beatened again… Crazy: It looks to me, that all foes strolls in and out the hight-tech protected Avenger Mansion like in a public parc. I think, it is unharmfuller to stay at night in Harlem/N.Y. as to live in the Avenger mansion. Positiv: A crazy cover, the Avengers in the menace of an ant-army! And the cute Wasp has got a new very nice costume! Wow!!! Ooo, lots of neat things to talk about w/ this issue, Mich. Yep. The art is just terrific. Really like that last panel w/ Jarvis coming into a room of defeated Avengers. Your point about practically every mugger & pickpocket being able to infiltrate this supposedly high-security mansion was not missed at the time. In just a few months, this is going to lead to HUGE problems for the team's ability to officially function. Agh! You like the Wasp's Disco Prostitute costume??? Oh, say it ain't so! (Okay, okay-- granted, I was about 16 when this came out, and I'm pretty sure I eyed it favorably at that time. . . ) I particularly liked that Hank, while in a state of mind that he was doing the right thing, was solidly holding his own against a VASTLY more powerful Avengers team. That may be mitigated by the fact that they didn't want to hurt him, certainly-- but you know what? He was able to use that to his advantage. An incredibly resourceful battle on his part. It was great to see what little ol' underrated Ant-Man was capable of. Boy, and the whole thing just speaks yet again to the chronic instability of Hank's mental health. I do wonder if anyone- even at this point- had looked carefully at Hank's total continuity arc? I know we explored it in depth once his deeper marital troubles came into play (circa issue #220 or so?), but he really does seem to have always been an emotional and mental loose cannon. I recently read the end of his tenure in Tales To Astonish (maybe 10 or 12 issues that he shared with the Hulk), and I was surprised that even then he was often- and possibly inadvertantly- portrayed as a moody, obsessive, inattentive, distant, fiery-tempered, and/or insensitive boor. Generally, though, this was a bi-product of slip-shod writing, manipulating Hank's state-of-mind in an effort to create circumstances to force the desired plot to take place. (For two of the stories, in fact, there was an overt editorial apology that the stories were not as good as they probably should have been. Man, there's a bit of marketing genius.) But by carelessly damaging their puppet, the writers ultimately laid a solid foundation for a particularly troubled and interesting character to be built upon for decades after. HB
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Post by sharkar on Mar 8, 2010 21:23:17 GMT -5
Oh, say it ain't so! (Okay, okay-- granted, I was about 16 when this came out, and I'm pretty sure I eyed it favorably at that time. . . ) Not to mention the cover shot of the Scarlet Odalisque--probably another treat for the eyes of a 16 year old (or for a lad of any age, I guess!). Boy, and the whole thing just speaks yet again to the chronic instability of Hank's mental health. I do wonder if anyone- even at this point- had looked carefully at Hank's total continuity arc? Good question. I don't know if Shooter checked out Hank's past, but it wouldn't surprise me. In hindsight there were episodes that could lead one to the idea of Hank being unstable, or at least not strong enough to withstand certain pressures. For example, there's Pym's first Marvel appearance as the non-costumed protagonist in a Tales to Astonish story--he's portrayed as your garden variety disgruntled scientist who wants to show the world how brilliant--and misunderstood--he is. Later on, he's like a "mad scientist" when he experiments on Jan and transforms her into the Wasp complete with wing implantation. And as many have noted (in hindsight), he loses it completely in Avengers #14 when Jan is gravely injured (though it's understandable...he loves her). When Hank rejoins the team in #28 there's some self-doubt (and being stuck at 10 feet doesn't help), but in a few months he settles in and seems capable and competent and combative (with Hawkeye mostly) and functions as the team's de facto leader (when Cap's absent). But during this time he was also subjected to rays of all sorts, such as an "experimental molecular space transformer" (#35); a new "reducing ray" (#46); a "vibrotron" and a "stim-o-lator" (both in #51) and so on. Could all this punishment (in addition to his growing and shrinking) have affected his nervous system, or his psyche? Then in Avengers #56 and Avengers Annual #2 (1968), there was the trauma of time travel. In the Annual, Hank comes face to face with "himself" and he does not handle it well at all (Cap even remarks that Hank's on the verge of losing it). Compare Hank's reaction to Jan's (who also comes face to face with "herself") and you can appreciate how resilient and strong Jan is; she handles meeting her old self with far more aplomb than Hank does. (And--again in hindsight--Roy's device of the two literal Hanks in the Annual is, IMO, an interesting foreshadowing of Hank's mental/emotional split, a few issue later in #59). And a couple of years later, the senior Avengers didn't hide their astonishment when Hank showed up in Ant-Man regalia in Avengers #93. Hank's reasoning: "A call went out for the original Avengers, it was Ant-Man then and so it's Ant-Man now." Hmmm.... Yep...there were instances along the way that a writer could use to expand into a credible characterization.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 17, 2010 14:25:22 GMT -5
@hb and Shakar: I´ve read your last post about Hank very interesting and carefully And after it y ´ve pondered a lot of time about Hanks evolution of the issues 1 - 160. And in fact I have to say that Hank is indeed the most instable teammate of all. He has changed so often his name, his costume, his membership (he joins the Avengers and he resigns them so often), his attitude. After all, even James Shooter has written it unintended, this is a logical and a direct consequence of the occurences of the last years. Perhaps you a family with a famos german theatre-drama/book "Woyzek" from the writer Georg Büchner, even the movie Woyzek from Werner Herzog with Klaus Kinski as Woyzek. Woycek is even disoriented, receives lots of setbacks, is a subject of a lot of disappointments and frustrations. But finally Woyzek murders his wife and mother of his little child... And his development reminds me a little bit to Hanks.
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 18, 2010 16:15:17 GMT -5
@hb and Shakar: I´ve read your last post about Hank very interesting and carefully And after it y ´ve pondered a lot of time about Hanks evolution of the issues 1 - 160. And in fact I have to say that Hank is indeed the most instable teammate of all. He has changed so often his name, his costume, his membership (he joins the Avengers and he resigns them so often), his attitude. After all, even James Shooter has written it unintended, this is a logical and a direct consequence of the occurences of the last years. Perhaps you a family with a famos german theatre-drama/book "Woyzek" from the writer Georg Büchner, even the movie Woyzek from Werner Herzog with Klaus Kinski as Woyzek. Woycek is even disoriented, receives lots of setbacks, is a subject of a lot of disappointments and frustrations. But finally Woyzek murders his wife and mother of his little child... And his development reminds me a little bit to Hanks. Wow, that would be a development we'd hope to NEVER see with poor ol' Hank! It would take this latest, long, long trend of "dark" storytelling past the point of no return, as far as he's concerned. I'm not familiar with the play or film. It does indeed sound very dark, and I must confess that the theater I work for tends to gravitate towards relentlessly dark material (Darfur; the holocaust; the inquisition; McCarthyism; Yugoslavia; Conflicts in Israel throughout history; etc, etc), and I rarely read or go to see pieces of that nature. Just too much gloom for my sunny nature, I think! And Hank is even a little more out of whack right now in "Mighty Avengers" (his current title). Taken on yet another identity, and has had a definite shift in his personality. Also, I'm pretty sure there are at least three of those "Omigod, Jan's hurt and I'm completely flipping out!!! YAAAARGHHH!!"- type breakdowns in his history. He's a wreck, bless his heart. HB
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Post by sharkar on Mar 18, 2010 20:42:39 GMT -5
Perhaps you a family with a famos german theatre-drama/book "Woyzek" from the writer Georg Büchner, even the movie Woyzek from Werner Herzog with Klaus Kinski as Woyzek. Woycek is even disoriented, receives lots of setbacks, is a subject of a lot of disappointments and frustrations. But finally Woyzek murders his wife and mother of his little child... And his development reminds me a little bit to Hanks. Michidiers: Funny you should liken Hank to a theatrical character, because I was thinking something similar the other day: that Hank is a bit like a comic book version of Billy Bigelow from Carousel (or like Liliom, which was Carousel's source). Okay, I'll state this upfront: the following is decidedly off-topic ;D Woyzek: wow, Mich, a blast from the past for me! In college my History of Theatre professor loved Buchner, so we read not only Woyzeck, but also Danton's Death and Leonce and Lena. (Plus I like Berg's opera Wozzeck). I saw Herzog's film years ago; as can be imagined, it was a hard film to watch (which should surprise no one who's read your plot synopsis above). Kinski and Eva Mattes--whom I liked in Fassbinder films--were very good.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 19, 2010 13:16:30 GMT -5
And his development reminds me a little bit to Hanks. Michidiers: Funny you should liken Hank to a theatrical character, because I was thinking something similar the other day: that Hank is a bit like a comic book version of Billy Bigelow from Carousel (or like Liliom, which was Carousel's source). Woyzek: wow, Mich, a blast from the past for me! In college my History of Theatre professor loved Buchner, so we read not only Woyzeck, but also Danton's Death and Leonce and Lena. (Plus I like Berg's opera Wozzeck). I saw Herzog's film years ago; as can be imagined, it was a hard film to watch (which should surprise no one who's read your plot synopsis above). Kinski and Eva Mattes--whom I liked in Fassbinder films--were very good. Bergs opera "Woyceck" : I´m waiting for a long time for this opera coming to our theatre here in my city Oldenburg. But accidentally last week I´ve bought four tickets for my family and me to visit a modern (rock)-opera "Woyczek" in a big theatre in Hamburg in April. The matter of the story is nearly the same as the original play from Büchner. The music is written by Tom Waits. I think, you know the famos american singer-songwriter Tom Waits. He´s quite popular here in germany, too. I like his musik very well.
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Post by sharkar on Mar 23, 2010 19:37:02 GMT -5
But accidentally last week I´ve bought four tickets for my family and me to visit a modern (rock)-opera "Woyczek" in a big theatre in Hamburg in April. The matter of the story is nearly the same as the original play from Büchner. The music is written by Tom Waits. I think, you know the famos american singer-songwriter Tom Waits. He´s quite popular here in germany, too. I like his musik very well. Sounds interesting. I like Waits' work but I'm not familiar with his Woyzeck... thanks for the info, Mich! Let us know how you like it.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 24, 2010 12:52:16 GMT -5
Sure, I will do it.
Ah, before I forget it: It is very fine for me to read, that you americans are knowing a lot of german movie directors, actors and writers. Here in Germany we got since decades a running rumor, that americans only interested in own american or englich speaking kultur.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 25, 2010 11:50:13 GMT -5
US AVENGERS #162 „The Bride of Ultron“ continued from #161: Ultron is planning a terrible scheme. He fixed the Wasp and drains her life-force into a metalloid body lying next to her. A beauty female - vessel of steel beeing filled with the Wasps life force. For this difficult work he has brain-washed the Ant-Man to help him. Ant-Man (Hank Pym) is now in the meaning Ultron is his buddy in the fight against the avengers. After this Ultron plans to take the robot-girl as his bride. As the Avengers gains knowledge of this sinister schedule, the rest of the teammates, Thor, Wonder-Man, Iron Man and Black Panther (the others are bad injured by the fight of #161) headed to Ultrons hidden lab in Long Island. A desperated fight for the life of the dying Wasp begins. Avengers are helpless against the power and indestructibility of Ultron. Even as Iron Man offers to smash and slay the half-living metalloid robot-woman, Ultron desperately gives up the resistance and releases the code to reverse the process. The Wasp is saved. Ultron flees into the night-sky of Long Island, his metalloid „bride-to-be“ is lying lifelessly in the lab. Ant-Mans brain-wash isn´t over, he blames the Avengers as his foes and can´t accept the Wasp as his real woman. A very distinguished story without winners and actually full of loosers. Ultron is in a total another condition like in his last appearences, he shows a lot of human characteristics like love. The story reminds me of the movie „Frankensteins Braut (Frankensteins Bride)“ and the metalloid vessel looks like Fritz Langs female robot in „Metropolis“. In a one page interlude we see Hawkeye and Two Gun Kid staying on a farm. Two Gun Kid is reading a Rawhide Kid comic an thinks by himself: „This hombre Kirby draws Rawhide Kid pretty good!“
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 25, 2010 20:00:34 GMT -5
Yep, I think we'd have to assume that Jocasta's resemblance to the lady-robot in METROPOLIS had to have been on purpose, yes? As a sort of tribute to a great old film-maker, and a wink to all of us fellow film/sci-fi buffs? (Boy, great film, that somehow contained some wildly contrasting acting styles from the time-- from quietly naturalistic to overt visually-declamatory stylization.) Possibly, that even gets touched upon in a later letters page. . . I LOVED Jocasta once they got her fully up & running a little later on, and found the brutally callous treatment she endured at the hands of pretty much every member of the team to be one of the Avengers' most regrettable and unforgivable mistakes. It may have been a consequence of shifting writers and plotlines, but I surely wish someone would have made more of an effort to explore her potential. And hey, see what Sharkar & I were talking about with Hank Pym's unending sequence of mental health issues? He is REALLY messed up here! And there's no quick-fix, super-duper mental-stabilizationizer ray to plop him in front of-- heck, one has to wonder exactly how they plan to bring him back to normal. . .
HB
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Post by sharkar on Mar 29, 2010 17:36:16 GMT -5
Sure, I will do it. Ah, before I forget it: It is very fine for me to read, that you americans are knowing a lot of german movie directors, actors and writers. Here in Germany we got since decades a running rumor, that americans only interested in own american or englich speaking kultur. Yeah, I loved the New German Cinema, michidiers: Fassbinder (I remember seeing Berlin Alexanderplatz when there was a several weeks long festival at a NY cinema--it was an event!), Herzog, Wenders, Handke (I know he's primarily a playwright/novelist), et al. Hanna Schygulla, Bruno Ganz and Edith Clever are some of my favorite actors.
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Post by sharkar on Mar 29, 2010 17:55:36 GMT -5
I LOVED Jocasta once they got her fully up & running a little later on, and found the brutally callous treatment she endured at the hands of pretty much every member of the team to be one of the Avengers' most regrettable and unforgivable mistakes. Oh, I too love Jocasta. There's a particular scene--with Jocasta and the Vision--in a subsequent issue that is so heartwrenching every time I read it: she's so vulnerable and he's pretty cruel to her (IMO), which compounds her loneliness. She has such a great look; in addition to the Metropolis connection HB and michidiers have mentioned, she reminds me Tina (from the Metal Men), plus there's the Metropolis connection, but obviously much less confident and secure, and more introspective. as HB and michiders have noted. Incidentally there's a great Avengers story featuring Jocasta in the recently-released tpb "What If? Classic" volume 6--so sad! If you haven't read the story called "The Leaving" and are in the mood for a good cry, pick up this tpb (or the original issue What If? #38). A real tear-jerker.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 30, 2010 11:52:27 GMT -5
@ HB, shakar: I´m very tensioned what will happen to Hank in the next issues.
What if #38: I and a lot of comrades here in Germany will do an comic-order at an net-comic shop (mycomicshop or milehigh) in the USA in the next weeks. Normally the last time only I´ve ordererd there Avengers issues from the Vol. 1. But in at the next time I will have a look at What if #38.
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Post by sharkar on Mar 31, 2010 13:16:54 GMT -5
What if #38: I and a lot of comrades here in Germany will do an comic-order at an net-comic shop (mycomicshop or milehigh) in the USA in the next weeks. Normally the last time only I´ve ordererd there Avengers issues from the Vol. 1. But in at the next time I will have a look at What if #38. Mich, no need to do that. If you don't mind reading it online, try this link. The Avengers story I'm referring to is the first one in the issue. www.htmlcomics.com/Book/html.asp?Series_Name=What%20If%20(V1)&Book_No=038&Page_Number=2&Alpha=|&Lookup=What%20IfAlso, the story is included in the trade collection "What If? Classic" volume 6, which was recently released (in the US, anyway) just this past January. Perhaps your local comic shop--or bookstore--carries this book.
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Post by michidiers on Apr 6, 2010 13:01:32 GMT -5
What if #38: I and a lot of comrades here in Germany will do an comic-order at an net-comic shop (mycomicshop or milehigh) in the USA in the next weeks. Normally the last time only I´ve ordererd there Avengers issues from the Vol. 1. But in at the next time I will have a look at What if #38. Mich, no need to do that. If you don't mind reading it online, try this link. The Avengers story I'm referring to is the first one in the issue. Oh, I´ve read the story just now online. Hombre, what a sad story!!!
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Post by michidiers on Apr 13, 2010 9:08:48 GMT -5
US Avengers #163 „The Demi-God must die!“ In this issue the Avengers become again unasked visit: Thypon was sent to earth by Pluto to catch Hercules and deliver him to Pluto. For this, Typhon defeats first the obviously weakest Avenger: “Beast”. With this pawn he forced Iron Man to meet Hercules and overcome him. In the streets of New York Iron Man eventually comes up to Hercules. But the god isn´t alone, his teammates of the Champions, Black Widow and Ice Man, are at his side. A bad fight through the streets of New York begins until Iron Man can clear up the confusion and explains the authentic story about Typhon and his hostage, the beast. After that clearing the three heroes are attacking together Typhon. Pluto realises, that Typhon cannot defeat all of them and draws him back to hades… Hmmm, I suppose that I´ve seen better storys of my favorite team The Avengers. It is common story. But is has beautiful drawings by G.Tuska/P. Marcos, especially the Black Widow looks very pretty. And I guess, the Avengers will have got a new “problem child” in the next sorys. The Beast is doubting about his rule in the team: “It seems like every time I turn around anymore I´m being captured, clubbered or held hostage…and I´m sick of it!”
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Post by sharkar on Apr 13, 2010 14:16:30 GMT -5
Mich, no need to do that. If you don't mind reading it online, try this link. The Avengers story I'm referring to is the first one in the issue. Oh, I´ve read the story just now online. Hombre, what a sad story!!! Isn't it emotionally-wrenching? I was crying the whole time I read it! Mich, I don't know if you're reading the new stuff with Hank and Jocasta (Mighty Avengers), but I half-expect something similar to happen with Jan and Jocasta...
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 13, 2010 14:27:58 GMT -5
Mich, I don't know if you're reading the new stuff with Hank and Jocasta (Mighty Avengers), but I half-expect something similar to happen with Jan and Jocasta... Hoo-boy, as contrived as it would be (sort of along the lines of the Vision getting his "real" body back via a mind-switch with an alternate-dimensional double near the end of the Gatherers arc), I am going to welcome that development if it indeed plays out. The line between Jan/Jocasta/robot/human has gotten reeeeeeally blurry as it is, all of a sudden, and honestly there's plenty of safety net available to not actually kill Jo off permanently if she should decide to sacrifice herself. HB
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Post by michidiers on Apr 18, 2010 12:32:00 GMT -5
Shakar/HB: Do you know the number of the us-issues of the new mighty avengers - stuff about Hank an Jocasta?
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 18, 2010 17:08:59 GMT -5
Well, it's all of the current issues. They're up to issue 35 right now, and I believe issue 36 will be the final one of its current run, before this big, upcoming revamp of all of the Avengers titles. I think it sort of becomes "Hank's" book around about issue 20 or 21. It's an enjoyable title, but DEFINITELY hard to follow on its own (at least for me). Because of all of the cross-overs, there's always a feeling of having missed one, or two, or five episodes of the ongoing story.
HB
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Post by sharkar on Apr 21, 2010 11:44:14 GMT -5
Mich, HB is right; your best bet for Hank-Jocasta is probably to start with Mighty Avengers #21. In fact , MA issues #21-#26 are available in the Mighty Avengers "Earth's Mightiest" trade paperback (or hardcover). Your local comic book store should carry this book, or try Amazon. The hardcover collection for Mighty Avengers ssues #27-32 "The Unspoken" is out now, and from what I've read the trade paperback version will be available soon. If you'd like to go back further and read about Jan's (IMO seeming) demise, she apparently died in Secret Invasion #8 (which I have not read). That issue is included in the Secret Invasion trade paperback.
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