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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 8, 2007 16:16:12 GMT -5
Loathe as I am to agree with Doom (our fellow AAer OR the Latverian dictator...), I seem to recall reading some manuals put out by Marvel, more than one if I recall right, where Marvel apparently seems to have adopted this as part of their canon: that Doom (the character...) is in fact the 2nd in line for the job of Sorcerer Supreme in Earth 616... I can't cite any sources, though, as I'm not exactly sure where it is that I read this...
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 8, 2007 17:00:35 GMT -5
You may be referring to the GN with Dr Strange where they free his mother from Mephisto realm. In a tournament to determine the new sorcerer supreme, Doom wins over everyone except Dr. Strange, so that makes him second, and second to the title too. (if anyone is curious, he used his armor computers and servosystem to memorize and reproduce all the spells the other magicians were using). Can't remember the title of the GN though.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 8, 2007 19:18:49 GMT -5
Loathe as I am to agree with Doom (our fellow AAer OR the Latverian dictator...), I seem to recall reading some manuals put out by Marvel, more than one if I recall right, where Marvel apparently seems to have adopted this as part of their canon: that Doom (the character...) is in fact the 2nd in line for the job of Sorcerer Supreme in Earth 616... I can't cite any sources, though, as I'm not exactly sure where it is that I read this... If Doom (the Marvel character) is second in line for the Sorcerer Supreme job, then you don’t agree with Doom (the Assembler), who was contending that Doom (the Marvel character again) is first in line. You may be referring to the GN with Dr Strange where they free his mother from Mephisto realm. In a tournament to determine the new sorcerer supreme, Doom wins over everyone except Dr. Strange, so that makes him second, and second to the title too. (if anyone is curious, he used his armor computers and servosystem to memorize and reproduce all the spells the other magicians were using). Can't remember the title of the GN though. Um… Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom: Triumph and Torment. I’ve already given reasons not to read too much into the results of the contest, which didn’t actually determine the “new” Sorcerer Supreme (the winner, Strange, already was in that position).
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 8, 2007 19:38:59 GMT -5
Ah! Sorry... It was an error on my part... I meant to say "First in line"...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 8, 2007 19:42:09 GMT -5
Night Phantom, to be fair Doom said that Doom was only first in line briefly.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 8, 2007 20:38:14 GMT -5
Night Phantom, to be fair Doom said that Doom was only first in line briefly. Who cares how long it took him to say it?!? ;D No, seriously, I think you’ve conflated two of his statements: It's long established canon that when Strange is gone, Doom is the next Sorceror SUpreme, as he is currently "first in line" after Strange. PS: And as the w says, when he made a deal with several helldemons he briefly became the STRONGEST sorceror on Earth.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 5:34:07 GMT -5
Yeah, it's an assumption that he's first in line. It's not a guarantee one way or the other. However, this all stems from my original statement, that he's one of the few sorcerors within a prayer of Doc Strange, and I believe that sill stands. AND WHADDYA MEAN YOU'RE LOATHE TO AGREE WITH ME, UA2? ?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 9, 2007 5:50:27 GMT -5
In an honorable & begrudginly respectful sort of way, of course, sir...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 5:51:50 GMT -5
d**n right!
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 9:38:14 GMT -5
you mean you don't think <ahem> Brother Voodoo would be next in line? (brother voodoo,.. good grief)
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 10:14:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure they aren't setting it up to kill Doc Strange in WWH and have Brother Voodoo replace him.
Which'll do until Doom decides to actually, you know, act in any way.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 10:21:54 GMT -5
Y'know ( by the way you realize you named yourself Vicky) Don't you think in this upcoming war that Doom is gonna try to hel get the Hulk pointed at Dooms enemies.
Doom, being brilliant, will have to see this as a wonderful opportunity to do in some opponents.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 13:25:00 GMT -5
Doom may well feel that by interveneing, he could make the situation worse though.
Plus either immediately after or immediately before he'll be getting destroyed by Bendi- battling the Mighty Avengers.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 17:26:13 GMT -5
but isn't making other people's situations worse one of the many ways Doom turns things to his advantage?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 9, 2007 17:30:14 GMT -5
No, I mean he could make the situation worse for HIMSELF.
It's why, in my mind, he didn't intervene in the civil war. Heroes fighting heroes is BRILLIANT for him. But the second they find out he's involved, they unite against him.
Hulk's already trashing Manhattan, weakening a giant program which undoubtedly poses a threat to Doom and targetting that Blasted Richards! What possible need would Doom have to intervene- if the heroes found out he had, then they might be compelled to UNITE with the people on Hulk's side or even Hulk himself to bring Doom down.
Naa, things are unfolding just fine. Although he certainly could act if he wanted to- Hell, he seems to be the character who worked out first that Hulk was going to return and wreak havoc. He may even be AGAINST Hulk- he does say "God help us all if- or when- he returns"". Us ALL. Hulk could be a threat to him too.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 9, 2007 18:54:55 GMT -5
Slight OT: Nutcase, the speed at which your posts number increase is amazing... It was 611 about a day ago, and now it's already 711
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Post by balok on Apr 9, 2007 19:24:35 GMT -5
Too, Doom may be the second most powerful sorcerer behind Dr. Strange (or he may not - the evidence seems inconclusive to me) - but he lacks the ethical qualifications. He'd sell the world to Dormammu for personal gain.
If Doom ascends to the post, the world ends.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 21:07:44 GMT -5
Slight OT: Nutcase, the speed at which your posts number increase is amazing... It was 611 about a day ago, and now it's already 711 I was out sick today. So I watched movies, read Avngers (issues 198-218) and talked to my favorite comic buddies. I try to make them count for something at least. If not serious content, then small attempts at humor. sometimes very small
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 10, 2007 0:29:25 GMT -5
Is this topic even about the Hulk anymore? ;D
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 10, 2007 4:56:20 GMT -5
Too, Doom may be the second most powerful sorcerer behind Dr. Strange (or he may not - the evidence seems inconclusive to me) - but he lacks the ethical qualifications. He'd sell the world to Dormammu for personal gain. Well he's unquestionably among them and nearly rivals Strange. I doubt he'd sell the world to Dormmamu for naything since the world is his prize and giving it awa... what could Dormmamu offer him in return? True but wouldn't it be an awesome "WHat if?" title?
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 10, 2007 11:41:19 GMT -5
And then, what if Dr. Doom, Sorceror Supreme got hit by a gamma bomb? That's the kind of stories we'd have if writers wrote the way Liefield draws.
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Post by Alchemist-X on Apr 12, 2007 20:00:35 GMT -5
The Incredible Doom Supreme? whoooooaaaa and his physical anatomy has to make totally no sense, and he has to have one of those weird faceguard helemt thingys, a sword, and for the love of god, at least two robotic limbs. Only then can truely be as bad as anything Liefield has drawn.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 12, 2007 20:24:34 GMT -5
He also has to be a ninja in keeping with current trends. Wasn't this a Hulk thread at sosme point?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 15, 2007 5:00:43 GMT -5
So, what's the deal with Doom these days...? (I mean the fictional character) Has he once more opted for a more balanced approach which shuns neither science nor magic...?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 15, 2007 5:02:08 GMT -5
Just how strong is the Hulk these days...? I keep hearing he's more powerful than ever...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 15, 2007 6:59:18 GMT -5
So, what's the deal with Doom these days...? (I mean the fictional character) Has he once more opted for a more balanced approach which shuns neither science nor magic...? He's very rarely appeared since "Unthinkable" and his death in "Authoritive Action". JMS addressed this very poorly by basically ignoring Authoritive Action (Incidentlaly one of my favourite FF stories ever) and the brilliant development of Waid's Doom trilogy. He basically retconned Authoritive Action so Doom was in Hell as he was last seen in Unthinkable, and no one apparantly remembered just how heated their confrontations were or what they had done to one another. He also retconned it so that Doom was in Hell in full mystic armour, which was not the case, and since his return his usage of magic has not been brought up at all. There are also no plans to use him in FF. I'd guess that unfortunately the waid Trilogy will be forgotten and he'll go back to 80% science 20% magic. (The development I refer to was the escalation of the Reed/Doom rivalry to basically an all time high with the sealing of Franklin in Hell and the KILLING of Ben, which one would imagine the FF, not least Ben himself, might refer to when confronting a returned Doom.) As for how strong the Hulk is... he's not at his all time high or anything but he's in the upper echelons.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 16, 2007 14:07:05 GMT -5
I think Doom's pride & grandiose sense of self would have prevented him from making any deals with demons, especially such Johnny-come-latelies as those three... He's had more than enough dealings with their ilk to know that the prices you pay for their help are high indeed... Otherwise, how come he never considered bargaining with Mephisto for his mother's soul...?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 16, 2007 14:23:58 GMT -5
There was a high price, Doom was just convinced he could outwit them because he's Doom. Remember, his pride was the reason for his undoing in Unthinkable- he basicallu convinced himself that he wasn't really dependant on the demons at all, that it was all him and thus he owed them nothing. His arrogance also convinced him that HE could make a deal with a demon and come out unscathed- because after all, he is Doctor Doom, not like those other fools!
Oh, and he DID bargain with Mephisto for his mother's soul. Specifically, he tried to win her back by force every single year in an annual contest, remember? That was back when he had much less ability to tamper with Hell and whatnot, and you can damned well be sure there's no WAY Doom stops that annual game until he wins, no matter what other ways to victory there are!
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 17, 2007 12:08:06 GMT -5
You know I asked peter david about the whole Hulk being an accidental mass murderer thing and he had this to say on his website Peterdavid.net...(my question is in lowercase. Peter's answer is in upper case)
Peter unless I'm off base, it appears the thinking at marvel these days is that any number of civilians have been killed during the Hulk's rampages over the years. Does that work and still leave the character sympathetic and or redeemable in any way? It just strikes me as horribly unsettling to know that thousands might be dead because of Bruce's mental disorder and the coping mechanism that grew out of it. I can't imagine he could live with that either...
CAN'T SAY AS I SUBSCRIBE TO THAT THINKING. I MEAN, I KNOW IT SEEMS PREPOSTEROUS THAT THE HULK COULD HAVE BEEN DESTROYING AS MUCH AS HE HAS ALL THESE YEARS AND NO ONE HAS DIED. BUT THAT'S NOT A CAN OF WORMS I WOULD HAVE OPENED.
I know it's not likely to change any minds, but to know that probably the best writer the Hulk has had in thirty five years agrees with me about the idea that Marvel is putting forth does bring some sense of satisfaction...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 17, 2007 12:27:29 GMT -5
That's a bit of a two-handed slap on the back though, rex. He admits that the alternative is "preposterous", he just thinks it's a large can of worms. Which is fair enough.
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