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Post by thew40 on Mar 21, 2007 18:25:26 GMT -5
The first issue of the actual "Back in Black" storyline came out today, being Amazing Spider-Man # 539.
Wow. Quite intense. Seeing Peter like that is just amazing. I saw what happened to May coming from a mile away.
JMS is back in his element. His work on ASM during "Civil War" was hit and miss (some great moments, some bad ones), but with this issue, it feels like he's back in the game. Garney is also doing some of the best work of his career here.
Can't wait until next issue.
~W~
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Post by balok on Mar 21, 2007 20:23:32 GMT -5
Glad to hear it. This is the only Marvel book I now buy (until JMS leaves, when I drop it), so I was hoping it would be good.
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 21, 2007 22:58:21 GMT -5
This is the first ASM I have bought in, oh say 20 years... give of take a couple... but has Peter developed a new webfluid that doesn't disintergate after a realtively short timespan?
And those who have read the book will probably understand why I ask this...
I thought it was pretty good. It was a good day at the shop, I also picked up the latest Ms. Marvel and found myself really enjoying that book.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 22, 2007 8:59:09 GMT -5
Peter has had organic webs for a while, ever since right before Avengers Disassembled, so probably they don't dissipate quite so quickly. I haven't read the book yet, but I'm glad to hear it is good
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 22, 2007 9:57:41 GMT -5
Peter has had organic webs for a while, ever since right before Avengers Disassembled, so probably they don't dissipate quite so quickly. Hmmm... seems to also coincide with the movies, which largely drives Marvel creativity these days...
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 22, 2007 10:41:01 GMT -5
Peter has had organic webs for a while, ever since right before Avengers Disassembled, so probably they don't dissipate quite so quickly. Hmmm... seems to also coincide with the movies, which largely drives Marvel creativity these days... POSSIBLE SPOILER AHEAD5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . What I am getting at is that Peter has had the black suit tucked away under ledge ornament on a skyscraper for how long now? I know this is the suit that BlackCat made him right? But that was what, the late 80's, which in Marvel time is like 8-10 years? It's nitpicky, I know, and it doesn't take away from the issue, just a curisoity on my part.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 22, 2007 14:56:05 GMT -5
I think the web thing is easy to explain- Peter has so many different kinds of web it stands to reason he'd have made a longer lasting one on occasion and so for this errand he concoted a batch that didn't deteriorate for decades.
He wouldn't use it normally for obvious reasons (THOUSANDS of web lines around Manhattan.)
And dlw, I'm not normally one to target you but your "seems to drive Marvel creativity" is just a cheap shot and COMPLETELY unfounded. There is basically no evidence to support the claim constantly levelled that marvel are driven totally by movies. How did Marvel change FF when the FF movie came out? They released one or two extra miniseries then kept the main title the exact same. Spidey 1? Same. Spidey 2? Same. Hulk? Same. Daredevil? Same. X-Men? Same. X-Men 2? Same. X-Men 3? Same.
The biggest thing you can throw at them is that they're in black costume in movie and comic but that just seems silly- not only is there a VERY good reason for Spidey to be in the black costume which flows logically and obviously from all of civil war so far, but it's NOT the symbiote and so is MORE likely to confuse moviegoers. Are you seriously going to claim all of civil war was created only to make Spidey able to briefly tie in with the movie? Especially when the movies have been proven to have basically no effect on the comic-READING populace?
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 22, 2007 15:02:06 GMT -5
So you think, for example, that the fact that the origin of the Ultimate FF with Doom as a comrade and a similar chain of events in the FF movie are mutually exclusive? And, that Spidey appears in black in the comics six weeks before the debut of Spider-Man 3, in which much of the pre-opening publicity has centered around the black costume, is mutually exclusive? Seems at the least like a nice piece of cross-marketing, at the most like the tail is wagging the dog.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 22, 2007 15:08:39 GMT -5
See the thing is, Doug, that just doesn't hold up.
Ultimate Doom is wildly different to movie Doom, and even worse. Movie Doom's only similarity is being metal. You ignore the fact that he has a COMPLETELY different power step, looks totally different, has different origins, different relationsghips with the title characters, plus ALL the characters are much youngere than they were in the movie and live in a wildly different setting, not to mention altering the origin to make it FARTHER AWAY from the movie origin than the classic origin is!
And you're sayingi t's just STAGGERING co-incadence that the whole Civil War storyline flows so seamlessly into Back in Black? IF anything I'd say they decided what the crux of the story should be then thought "Hang on, the movie's also out around this tiem, we HAVE to put in the black costume now it works perfectly."
The whole "driven by movie" idea is nice but it just doesn't hold up. Back in Black is the closest it's ever come, and even it's pretty different- beisdes, it could be the exception that proves the rule.
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 22, 2007 15:18:48 GMT -5
I think its probably safe to say that regardless of what main storyline was going on in the MU, that Spidey would be in black to coincide with the movie.
And I wouldn't even begin to say that Civil War was a means to flow into Back-in-Black... if anything it was meant to bring IM to the forefront of the MU, with the benefit of helping promote or create interest for the IM movie next year. Rest assured, he will be a completely vindicated and re-born full-fledged superhero by the time May 2nd, 2008 rolls around.
As for the my original post, the spidey webbing. Look, I could think of several reasons why a sack of webbing has survived exposed to the elements atop a skyscraper for years. It's just nice, and good writing IMHO, if they don't ignore glaring questions like that. They go through the trouble of building this whole mythos, and the "science" behind it all, and then just ignore all that work... just seems odd to me. How hard would it have been, for Pete to note that his special webbing formula held-up after all this time, or that it still seems to be in good condition, even though it had been a while since he last checked on it... or something... anything at all, as a tip of the hat to the fan who has any the smallest knowledge of Spidey-lore. That's all I am saying.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 23, 2007 3:38:47 GMT -5
By far the biggest continuity error was actually that May's maiden name is in fact Reilly, not Fitzpatrick.
And I think it's absolutely RIDICULOUS to say that civil war was created to drive a future Iron Man movie, but I know I won't change your minds.
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Post by balok on Mar 23, 2007 13:25:38 GMT -5
And I think it's absolutely RIDICULOUS to say that civil war was created to drive a future Iron Man movie, but I know I won't change your minds. I agree. First off, Civil War is *much* too complex to draw in the movie audience - movies have to sell tickets to people other than diehard comic book fans to succeed. Second, the chant is that the Mandarin will be the movie villain, and he was MIA throughout Civil War. In the sense that Marvel wanted to make the character high profile, perhaps Civil War will help the movie - but there's a long delay there. And Iron Man, as one of the most important Marvel characters, had to play an important role in Civil War in order for it to be a Kewl Epic Miniseries. I actually liked (4/5) the new Amazing Spider-Man (#539). It could have gotten 5/5 except that "Aunt May in peril" has been done to death - she always recovers. In the emerging Rust Age it's slightly possible that JMS will be allowed to kill her, but I'd bet not.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 23, 2007 15:24:49 GMT -5
The important question is when are they going to have spidey weraing the hoodie in the movies?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 23, 2007 17:30:55 GMT -5
You... agree? ...Agree? ....Sorry Balok, it's just that I've never heard those two words strung together from you like that before
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Post by balok on Mar 23, 2007 18:08:05 GMT -5
You... agree? ...Agree? ....Sorry Balok, it's just that I've never heard those two words strung together from you like that before It happens. Now, if the seas start to boil, and the sky weeps fat droplets of blood, and great fissures rend the earth, then it might be time to worry...
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 24, 2007 18:48:48 GMT -5
Agree on the two continuity mistakes. The web one I can understand (even though Peter was supposed to have burnt that costume), but May's maiden name is lack of knowledge on past history, pretty much like Spidey saying that IM shouldn't know about his spider-sense a few issues ago.
Except for this, a nice issue. Best scene: Peter throwing a car (!)against the sniper ;D
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Post by balok on Mar 24, 2007 19:16:11 GMT -5
Except for this, a nice issue. Best scene: Peter throwing a car (!)against the sniper ;D Absolutely. That's what I alluded to on the other thread. I can't remember all the changes that came from the forgettable "The Other" but I think he must have picked up some more strength in there somewhere...
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 24, 2007 19:26:06 GMT -5
Yep, I think he has at some point. This being said, he used to be in the 10 class (= able to lift / press up to 10 tons), which should be plenty enough to throw a car. According to the handbooks, Peter usually holds back a lot to avoid hurting normal humans. Guess he didn't do it this time
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 24, 2007 21:06:25 GMT -5
Yup, throwing the jeep was a 'wow' moment. Spidey's strength tends to be downplayed, in a universe where the powerful can lift 50+ tons. But lifting 10+ ain't nothing to sneeze at.
Peter is really deep deep in the pit at the moment, and his extreme reaction makes sense. I have to say I really have enjoyed ASM the last few months. I hated the Past Sins arc, couldn't even finish it. But through the course of Civil War, I thought JMS did a very good job with Peter and his cast.
And Peter David pretty much admitted he's back in black due to the movie. Duh!!!
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 25, 2007 16:36:31 GMT -5
There will probably be some purists who want me dead for saying this, buuutttttt,... I always liked the black costume (movie or no) You don't see too many blue/red spiders. But when you see a pure black spider, you start worrying.
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 25, 2007 17:21:41 GMT -5
Oh, I liked the black costume, too! I thought it made sense as it segued into Venom. Venom's first appearance was great! BUT, it happened to coincide with the "let's make everything dark and let's overexpose Punisher, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, and Venom until old farts like dlw66 (and I wasn't even old then) can't even see straight!!"-period.
The black suit as a design is very cool.
And I'd add this: I don't think "Kraven's Last Hunt", one of my all-time favorite Spidey stories, would have been as meaningful in the red & blue. The black suit just fit the mood of that story so well.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Mar 25, 2007 18:14:22 GMT -5
I think it's his best costume but, with Venom around, it looks a little redundant... I think a chromatic variation of his classic costume would have been interesting, and also biologically correct: instead of blue, black, and instead of red, yellow...
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 25, 2007 21:53:02 GMT -5
I think the web thing is easy to explain- Peter has so many different kinds of web it stands to reason he'd have made a longer lasting one on occasion and so for this errand he concoted a batch that didn't deteriorate for decades. I have trouble buying this excuse. It seems that if he’d had such a formula for so long, it would have come up before, for instance in a new attempt to sell its rights ( cf. #18). May's maiden name is lack of knowledge on past history Not just history but present, for it’s being used in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 26, 2007 4:43:42 GMT -5
May's maiden name is lack of knowledge on past history Not just history but present, for it’s being used in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. That's even worse I actually like the black costume a lot myself, infact I had Spidey wear it throughout Marvel Ultimate Alleance when I played it. However, I also like the classic costume a lot ^^ I think the period where he would alternate between the two costumes was the best for me in this respect. Going back to Peter throwing the car, "Civil War Battle Report" gives him class 25 strength (ability to lift 25 tons), which is 15 more than he used to be. While still being far from the top class characters, he should now be a lot stronger than all of his classic opponents ! I seem to remember that class 25 is what Namor is outside water
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Post by balok on Mar 26, 2007 14:04:03 GMT -5
A jeep weighs circa 2000 lbs. I'd think the least amount of strength one would need to throw one would be 25 ton deadlift, perhaps more. The equivalent for a man who can deadlift 200 lbs would be throwing an 8 lb object - a heavy book, for example, as a line drive fashion a distance of 20-30 feet.
Of course, it's really dramatic storytelling used to emphasize Peter's anger - he's so angry, it never occurs to him what happens if he compromises the structural integrity of the building and people die in the collapse...
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 30, 2007 19:07:37 GMT -5
Regarding continuity problems, from today’s New Joe Fridays #41: JMS’s explanation doesn’t ring true for me. Can anyone cite where the requirement for modification has been established? Again, the explanation would seem to contradict ASM #18. If the groundwork JMS refers to exists, I would still find it bothersome unless there’s some clever way in which it all can be reconciled.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 31, 2007 12:49:24 GMT -5
I had read the JQ Friday, but it still shows that JMS lacks a lot of info on Spidey's past. May's maiden name is something a SM writer should know at heart IMO
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 1, 2007 16:45:47 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree with Shiryu. There are things that can be messed with and then explained, however lamely. But certain aspects should remain constant. I believe that as sure as my name is,... uhhhh,... nevermind.
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Post by balok on Apr 1, 2007 21:43:38 GMT -5
I had read the JQ Friday, but it still shows that JMS lacks a lot of info on Spidey's past. May's maiden name is something a SM writer should know at heart IMO Yes. It appears that JMS has reached or will soon reach the stage all writers reach if they write a particular book for long enough: the stage where the creative well runs dry and must be recharged - something that can only happen when the writer leaves the book for some period (not less than a year).
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 2, 2007 15:48:20 GMT -5
I'd guess from that that JMS thought he knew the name (and was perhaps right) but mailed to find out- I honestly don't think it's THAT crucial knowing- and, as it said, was misinformed.
The webbing I have no clue but don't find it particularly implausible.
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