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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 1, 2008 19:00:59 GMT -5
Yup, giant noggin and all! With all those alluring heroines, it's no wonder she's hiding in the back!
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 12, 2008 11:46:01 GMT -5
That poster certainly depicts simpler times (and better storytelling!!).
As I have been reading A LOT of Silver and Bronze Age material lately, I am just floored at the amount of words on a given page! Seriously -- it takes me 15-20 minutes to read an older book, while today's books generally take me around 5 minutes (sometimes less, sometimes more). And, say what you will about some of the older art (and some of the gaffes that the Marvel method brought about between penciller and scripter), but the storytelling and pacing is rarely NOT solid.
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 17, 2008 10:51:16 GMT -5
That poster certainly depicts simpler times (and better storytelling!!). As I have been reading A LOT of Silver and Bronze Age material lately, I am just floored at the amount of words on a given page! Seriously -- it takes me 15-20 minutes to read an older book, while today's books generally take me around 5 minutes (sometimes less, sometimes more). And, say what you will about some of the older art (and some of the gaffes that the Marvel method brought about between penciller and scripter), but the storytelling and pacing is rarely NOT solid. I hear ya Doug. When I go back and read a book from the 60s or 70s, I actually have to read. Taking 20 minutes or so is not at all unusual to get through a single issue. I really feel like I got my money's worth! I would also agree that in general, artistic story-telling was better back then. Today's artists are typically more detailed and realistic but I find that the flow of the story often suffers. There are times when I can't even tell exactly what is going on. This does not encourage me to keep reading! Not that I don't enjoy realism; Neal Adams, perhaps the grand daddy of modern comics art, is one of my faves. But I see so much photo referencing now that it drives me crazy. Greg Land is probably the worst offender, as he tends to use the same pictures over and over. OK, I'm done with my cranky pants moment.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 21, 2008 12:53:25 GMT -5
This artwork really takes me back. Not only to Dave Cockrum's fine run on the All-New, All-Different X-Men, but also to a simpler time. Look at the characters -- there was a defined group dynamic -- each character providing not only specific powers, but specific personalities that led to story devices. This was before Claremont so convoluted the X-Universe and drove me and several other long-timers away. Sigh...
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 22, 2008 7:42:54 GMT -5
Issue #50 of The Jack Kirby Collector, otherwise known as Kirby 5-0! goes on sale tomorrow (Wednesday). It retails for $19.95, but Amazon has it for sale at a little over $13. It's a tabloid-sized trade paperback, and sure to worth how ever many shekels you pay!!
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steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
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Post by steed on Apr 22, 2008 12:17:01 GMT -5
I too miss the good old days when comic books had sequential art and actual stories that had a beginning, middle and an ending. I also miss the days when a story would usualy wrap up in 3 issues, when we had story lines not arcs (although an arc is a line) and heroes you could look up too. But those days are never coming back.
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Post by sharkar on Apr 23, 2008 18:26:21 GMT -5
Issue #50 of The Jack Kirby Collector, otherwise known as Kirby 5-0! goes on sale tomorrow (Wednesday). It retails for $19.95, but Amazon has it for sale at a little over $13. It's a tabloid-sized trade paperback, and sure to worth how ever many shekels you pay!! Another item for my shopping list! On a related note, I flipped through the Evanier book recently but I didn't buy it (though I'll undoubtedly purchase it at some point). But it didn't grab me, probably because there was an awful lot of Kirby's Golden Age art--and some 1970s and beyond art--but relatively little from the Silver Age, my favorite era! Then again, I didn't really look too closely, so this is just my initial impression. Has anyone else here picked this up?
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 25, 2008 22:11:21 GMT -5
I'll be picking up that issue of Alter Ego as well. What gorgeous artwork! That team of X-Men is still near and dear to my heart. You're right Doug, they meshed so well, with very complementary powers and personalities. The X-Men were fun and exciting, and a lot easier to follow back then!
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2008 12:03:20 GMT -5
The July-shipping Back Issue also contains the Cockrum-era X-Men, as well as a bunch of other "stinkin' Muties!" -- I can't make out the date under Dave's signature, but I'm guessing this is a more recent piece than the cover of the Alter Ego above. You can see an evolution in the shape of Colossus' head, and Kitty Pryde is perhaps more reminiscent of Byrne's version. Personally, I like the Alter Ego style better.
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Post by von Bek on Apr 26, 2008 13:00:39 GMT -5
The piece is probably from the second Cockrum era, Wolverine is wearing the uniform John Byrne designed for him, and not the blue and yellow from Cockrum first run, among the other changes that Doug already noted. And I like the Alter Ego era style better too, it was almost as good as Byrne and Austin art that followed him in the X-Men. His style in the early 80´s was not that good...
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Post by starfoxxx on Apr 29, 2008 12:57:38 GMT -5
I don't usually post on silver age topics, as I'm more 80-centric, but I noticed you guys mentioning Dave Cockrum. I just saw in the new Previews, X-MEN: ODD MEN OUT ONE-SHOT. "Featuring two never-before-seen stories illustrated by the late, legendary Dave Cockrum." I actually didn't know he had passed, what a loss. And one of the stories is written by Roger Stern, so I'm definitely picking it up. It's coming out in July.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 30, 2008 8:49:50 GMT -5
Wow. John Buscema and P. Craig Russell. Run a search on ebay in the comics section, for FOOM. All kinds of goodies on there right now!
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 30, 2008 20:24:22 GMT -5
NOTE: Kirby 5-0 actually shipped today; I will post a "first impression" after my copy arrives from Amazon.
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Post by sharkar on May 2, 2008 9:48:16 GMT -5
I wish someone at Marvel would wise up and publish a Namor Essentials! My wish has come true-- Essential Sub-Mariner is coming in September!!!! ;D Essential Classic X-Men vol. 3, containing the Neal Adams issues, is also scheduled for September. (I already have the Adams X-Men tpb but I'm greedy so I want the Essentials too!)
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Post by dlw66 on May 2, 2008 11:25:29 GMT -5
My wish has come true-- Essential Sub-Mariner is coming in September!!!! ;D Any word on what's in this? I would assume it will contain Tales to Astonish and perhaps go up to Iron Man and Sub-Mariner #1. If so, I will hold off until volume II when the Big John art begins! I loved John's art in black & white in the Essential Silver Surfer.
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Post by Tana Nile on May 2, 2008 13:16:38 GMT -5
My wish has come true-- Essential Sub-Mariner is coming in September!!!! ;D Any word on what's in this? I would assume it will contain Tales to Astonish and perhaps go up to Iron Man and Sub-Mariner #1. If so, I will hold off until volume II when the Big John art begins! I loved John's art in black & white in the Essential Silver Surfer. But those TTA's had some gorgeous Marie Severin work! Although personally, I can't look at comics without color...
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Post by dlw66 on May 2, 2008 13:51:03 GMT -5
Ah, but I already have the TTA's in another format. Not that a certain Global Administrator would know anything about that...
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Post by dlw66 on May 3, 2008 9:40:46 GMT -5
I received Kirby 5-OH! via Amazon yesterday (note: ordered it Monday, and even with the Super Saver S&H I had it in four days!!). What a nice book, and for the online price of just under $14 you really can't pass this up. A regular issue of The Jack Kirby Collector goes for $10 -- this is a steal at Amazon's price.
The book is very large -- tabloid-sized like the regular magazine. It's squarebound, and seems to be put together well. It is B&W, but with a small color section that is, to be honest, underwhelming. It's OK, but there's just nothing especially cool pictured.
Speaking of pictures, I really thought the neatest photograph (there are lots of photos of Jack, and several of his family) in the whole book was a simple shot of a caddy on Jack's drawing table with three pipes standing up in it. Just a nice slice-of-life photo.
The book is premised on lists of Jack's work done in groups of 50. So various creators choose their best Kirby covers, and then a list of 50 is compiled. Same for pages of unused art and character designs (a great section for debate! Galactus is #27 on the list??). There is also a tribute section -- 50 creators influenced by Kirby.
Jack's Marvelmania posters are pictured, and there's an anecdote about those. There is also quite a bit of attention given to the recently-released Fantastic Four: The Lost Adventure that printed what would have been FF #103.
I did not know this: Joe Simon is credited with the design for Captain America; Jack designed Bucky. I am pretty sure I'd never heard that before...
It's funny when you read TJKC magazine -- it's never Lee/Kirby, but always Kirby/Lee. A little different perspective, and that's not all bad.
So, rush right out and get your hands on this book -- it's certainly at least worth a personal financial debate on your part at your local comic shop!
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Post by sharkar on May 4, 2008 22:15:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the review of Kirby 5-OH! It's on my shopping list. I did not know this: Joe Simon is credited with the design for Captain America; Jack designed Bucky. I am pretty sure I'd never heard that before... Simon often did the roughs/layouts during their collaboration (sometimes he also inked Kirby), so he was responsible for the design of some of their characters, including Captain America. Previously, I've read it was also Simon who designed Bucky (giving him a simpler costume than Cap's, sans stripes/star, no cowl, etc.) and that Bucky was named after an acquaintance of Simon's. So it will be interesting for me to read 5-OH's take on Bucky's creation (as you say, it's a very Kirby-centric publication.)
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Post by sharkar on May 4, 2008 22:52:36 GMT -5
Any word on what's in this? I would assume it will contain Tales to Astonish and perhaps go up to Iron Man and Sub-Mariner #1. If so, I will hold off until volume II when the Big John art begins! I loved John's art in black & white in the Essential Silver Surfer. Yes, from what I've read so far, the Namor Essentials will comprise Subby's run in Tales to Astonish. No Buscema, of course...but lots of Gene Colan (credited early on as Adam Austin) and Bill Everett, plus a few others (not Severin--I assume Tana was referring to Marie's Hulk work when mentioning TTA. Apart from the joint Namor-Hulk story in TTA #100 and some TTA covers, Marie started penciling the Subby strip later on, when he got his own book. The Severin issues should also be included Subby Essentials volume 2...is it too early to pre-order this? ). I know what you mean about Big John's work--simply gorgeous. A few weeks ago I bought the Marvel Saga tpb and it's a potpourri of wonderful work by a variety of artists--Kirby, Ditko, Byrne, Colan, Big John, Sal, Kane, Romita Sr., Everett and others--but IMO, John's three or four pages (Subby, coincidentally) were by far the most stunning.
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Post by dlw66 on May 8, 2008 12:15:44 GMT -5
For those of you who don't mind the Book-of-the-Month type clubs, the Science Fiction Book Club is having a drive right now. I got a mailer yesterday offering the initial membership package of 6 books for $1. In the flyer were DC's Trinity, Dark Knight Strikes Again, and Marvel offerings included the Avengers encyclopedia, the Marvel encyclopedia, a new Savage Sword of Conan compilation, Evanier's new Kirby King of Comics hardcover, and other stuff. Night Phantom's recommended Mouseguard was also available. The problem always for me is that once I get the intro. stuff, they never have enough new offerings that I feel good about fulfilling my membership (I mean I always do fulfill the contract, just not with stuff I'm really excited about). www.sfbc.comClick on the left side on "Altiverse" for most of their comics offerings.
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Post by sharkar on May 8, 2008 17:59:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the link...this looks like a really great deal! Consider yourself exalted.
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Post by dlw66 on May 19, 2008 12:51:11 GMT -5
GAAHHHHH! The Silver Age Marvel Comics Cover Index is down!! Sure hope they get it moved/fixed/whatever soon!! www.samcci.org/
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Post by dlw66 on May 20, 2008 9:45:22 GMT -5
Excellent! DC is going to collect more Neal Adams work in a series of three Archive editions. I have the three-volume Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams, and they are treasures in my collection. I'm very excited about this announcement! DC UNIVERSE ILLUSTRATED BY NEAL ADAMS VOL. 1 HC Written by Robert Kanigher, Bob Haney, Gardner Fox, Neal Adams, Cary Bates, Len Wein and Howard Liss, art by Neal Adams, Joe Kubert, Nick Cardy, Dick Dillin, Steve Harper and Vince Colletta, cover by Adams. At last, it's here the first of three hardcover volumes collecting nearly every DC Comics story and cover by Neal Adams not already collected in Green Lantern/Green Arrow, Batman or Deadman titles! Featuring rarely seen stories from Our Army at War #182, 183 and 186, Star Spangled War Stories #134 and 144, Detective Comics #369, Teen Titans #20-22, Action Comics #425, Superman #254, Weird War Tales #12 and 13 and more! 192 pages, $39.99, in stores on Oct. 22.
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Post by dlw66 on May 30, 2008 7:40:52 GMT -5
Speaking of Neal Adams...
Interesting nugget from the Joe Sinnott interview in The Jack Kirby Collector #36: Joe tells that when he received Neal's pencils, which came from Neal's Continuity Studios, it was apparent that the main figures in the foreground were done by Neal. Figures and some buildings, etc. in the background seemed to have been drawn by someone other than Neal. This anecdote was specifically in regard to Joe's work on Thor.
Joe has a statement comparing Kirby's Thor to Buscema's Thor. I'll post that later. It's interesting, and at least for me, speaks elequently of the point I was trying to make with our own Doctor Doom last week in regard to the same subject.
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Post by sharkar on May 30, 2008 15:42:28 GMT -5
Speaking of Neal Adams... Interesting nugget from the Joe Sinnott interview in The Jack Kirby Collector #36: Joe tells that when he received Neal's pencils, which came from Neal's Continuity Studios, it was apparent that the main figures in the foreground were done by Neal. Figures and some buildings, etc. in the background seemed to have been drawn by someone other than Neal. This anecdote was specifically in regard to Joe's work on Thor. Yeah, ol' Neal was known for having a stable of helpers/assistants. He also used photos extensively--not just for reference but he would trace them (such as the Egyptian background/locale seen in the famous splash to X-Men #56). Having multiple artists doing the "grunt work" was not exclusive to Neal. This was a pretty established way of working, at least during the Golden Age. The main artist would do the major stuff (main characters, layouts, etc.) but filler would be provided by others, usually neophytes. This was necessary because of the tight deadlines and this is in part how so many comics were churned out during the GA. For instance, the Simon-Kirby team often used young artists for drawing/inking backgrounds. Dick Giordano has written about rising through the ranks by doing such assembly-line work (backgrounds, then inking, then "graduating" to penciling). In the 70s, Colletta was also known for shipping out work to assistants; he inked the primary action figures/objects, but reportedly much of the background/peripheral stuff was inked by others.
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Post by dlw66 on Jun 11, 2008 9:47:17 GMT -5
Also in regard to TJKC #36, Thor aficianados will love the lengthy article on Tales of Asgard, as well as some apologist literature for the much-maligned Vinnie Colletta.
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 3, 2008 10:18:22 GMT -5
Saw this on ebay and thought it was cool -- so I'm just sharing!
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Post by Tana Nile on Sept 3, 2008 21:47:30 GMT -5
A cool shirt! What cracks me up is all those faces are by Kirby (I believe) - except of course for Wolverine, who apparently has to appear on not only every team but every t-shirt too!
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Post by sharkar on Sept 3, 2008 23:29:37 GMT -5
Great shirt! The Surfer looks like the work of J. Buscema (possibly from the cover of SS #6). The Inhumans, Torch, Ben, Reed, T'Challa, and Wyatt heads are from one of my favorite covers, FF #54 by Kirby (IMO, a rare instance of an effective floating heads cover, and one that we've discussed in this very thread!). The shirt contains some modifications--Ben's head is narrowed, Triton is given a stronger jawline, his and Reed's mouths look a bit altered, etc. EDIT: reposted FF #54 cover
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