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Post by thew40 on Jan 26, 2007 14:26:30 GMT -5
I felt the same way after Jean Grey was brought back. Here was another very moving death, and then we are told that it wasn't really Jean, that everything that happened with Jean after issue 100 was just the Phoenix entity, thinking it was Jean. Couldn't agree with you more. As much as I like Jean and I'm glad they brought her back, the whole idea that it was "Phoenix, not Jean" that died really bothered me. To be nitpicky, they didn't "keep" killing her off and bringing her back. They were two fake-outs (one in "The Hidden Years" and one in Uncanny X-Men 281ish). The only other time she actually died was during "Planet X." "Phoenix Endsong" was about her being dead, but the Phoenix wanting back. Jean was technically dead the entire time. ~W~
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jan 26, 2007 15:30:59 GMT -5
Having seen one 11-page appearance you're ready to declare it "poorly and cheaply". Well I guess no-one on THIS site ever pre-judges. I know that they never gave him his own comic again. So in NOT giving the best Flash ever his own comic again, thye AREN'T screwing over Flash readers according to you. What's wrong with people wanting a Captain Marvel series with the real deal again?
But this is another stupid case. Yes, Joe said "Dead means dead." But to say "Dead means dead, no matter how FANTASTIC a story is if we bring someone back ,EVEN if we only bring them back because of a phenomenal idea for them...." - Well that's just stupid. And if there IS the idea- why not? Bucky's return met mostly positive feedback.
And no ,Vision is NOT back. It is NOT the same and we all know it.
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 26, 2007 16:14:04 GMT -5
Having seen one 11-page appearance you're ready to declare it "poorly and cheaply". Well I guess no-one on THIS site ever pre-judges. I know that they never gave him his own comic again. So in NOT giving the best Flash ever his own comic again, thye AREN'T screwing over Flash readers according to you. What's wrong with people wanting a Captain Marvel series with the real deal again? But this is another stupid case. Yes, Joe said "Dead means dead." But to say "Dead means dead, no matter how FANTASTIC a story is if we bring someone back ,EVEN if we only bring them back because of a phenomenal idea for them...." - Well that's just stupid. And if there IS the idea- why not? Bucky's return met mostly positive feedback. And no ,Vision is NOT back. It is NOT the same and we all know it. I said that his was return was done poorly and cheaply.. Since that book was the return, I am not prejudging. Yes, thanks to Brubaker, doing a great job with the Bucky return, it has been mostly positive, in fact I liked it. However it does not change the fact that Joe Q sad "dead is Dead"... YOu play word games all you want, but this is the simple truth. First it is your opinion that Barry Allen was the best Flash every. Second, they never gave him back his own comic, because they know how important the death of the charater was, how much impact it had in the DCU, and that returning him to the main storyline, would ruin the best death scence that DC has ever done. Marvel on the other hand was happy to do it for the almight dollar. I am enjoying watching you twist my words.. Thanks
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jan 26, 2007 16:44:59 GMT -5
No, you said they stole the idea from DC. The Idea being the return of the long dead character and aftermath. You can say the INITIAL return was done poorly and cheaply but that was, as you YOURSELF admitted, a teaser- the explanation, depth etc of the return will occur in- Captain Marvel #1.
Then we're on the same page.
Well I've stated before my feelings on Joe Q and his twisting and distortion. But if you think he SHOULD have stuck by those words literally- well then you aren't realistic and comics would be the worse off for it.
Firstly, I know a good few Flash fans who'd agree on the best Flash ever, but yes it's opinion. Oh, and I'd say a few thousand Supergirl fans would maul you for the best death scene comment.
But here's the thing: GIving him his own comic DOESN'T ruin the character. We are NOT seeing his death scene tarnished because it's still going to HAPPEN. He's still going to die of cancer as a result of that storyline. The Death of Captain Marvel is an oft-forgotten classic, with this return if they honour the character properly then they will draw more attention to that storyline than ever before- in fact this might be what finally gives it the fame it is due.
I guess we have to differ on this, but as I said before I think saying that a return ruins the original death is the true insult to the death story.
Marvel do it because they THINK good stories can be told with Mar-Vell which have not yet been told. That is what they believe- are they right? Are they wrong? Maybe, but that's an individual decision. They think good stories can be told- and yes, they want his series to do well. If you think DC DIDN'T expect "The return of Barry Allen" to rake in the hardcore Barry Allen-Flash fans, you're living in a dreamworld.
That's what they pay me for!
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jkemble
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the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Jan 26, 2007 18:32:26 GMT -5
I do so love that Joe Q when he took over Marvel stated "Dead is Dead" and that charaters once dead would not be brought back. So lets take a look at that. Captain Marvel (back) Hawkeye (back) Vision (back) Bucky (back) It is all about the cheap fast buck to marvel. Perhaps they should try acutally telling good stories, and they will see the money role in. and off the top of my head: Colossus (back) Psylock (back) NorthStar (back) Apocolypse (back)
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jkemble
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Post by jkemble on Jan 26, 2007 19:42:41 GMT -5
oh yeah, Magneto (back)
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ozbot
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Post by ozbot on Jan 26, 2007 20:43:54 GMT -5
Didn't we all suspect this was coming, anyway? I mean, I know that the teaser image and discussions have all speculated that it would be Mar Vell, so it shouldn't come as a big surprise or shock. Why all the vitriol? It's like "you think they're gonna do it?" "they better not do it." "I think they're going to do it." and then when the comic finally comes out, it's "I can't believe they did it!"
FWIW, I think that it's okay to bring Mar Vell back, that CW:The Return was poorly written, but that neither of these facts diminishes the original GN. Does this change the way you read the story WHEN you first read it? No? Then that story did what it was intended to do and you will always have that to look back on. Even re-reading it again, you will still feel that it was a great story, because you will say "Man, they just don't write these like they used to." Now IF you were someone five years from now who's been reading the Captain Marvel series since 2007 and THEN picked up an old copy of the GN, you might be able to say that the GN doesn't have the emotional impact it once had.
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jkemble
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the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Jan 26, 2007 22:52:07 GMT -5
okay, I suseed (or whatever) I never really cared that much for Captain Marvel (although I loved those issues of MArvel Spotlight with the Pat Brodrick art!) I'm sure there are a lot of Captain Marvel fans here who are thrilled by the Return, and I'm sure that Marvel has heard our (the fans) rumbleings and will take them into account with the first issue of Captain MArvel . I'm sure everything will work out okay. Here's why I say that. Magneto is my favorite Marvel villian / anti-hero. I wasn't reading New X-Men when Morrison via Wolverine publically exicuted Magneto. Cut his head clean off, and that's pretty hard even for an X-Man to come back from. I never read Morrison's stuff, I viewed it like a lot of you view Bendis' work; dis-jointed, uncharecteristic, and with gripes that match the ones I've heard here, editorial let Morrison do whatever. So, he killed Jean Grey (again) hooked Cyclops up with the White Queen (even before Jean was dead!), killed Magneto and told us that we had been reading Weapon X wrong, because it was really Weapon "10" (roman numeral). some really stupid stuff. some sticks, like the re-death of Jean Grey, and some becomes part of the mythos, like Scott and Emma. Still other stuff is forgotten, like the stupid Weapon 10 idea. so, at the end of the day, when all is said and done overall I'm just glad that Magneto is back. I guess you just never know, just because one person doesn't like something doesn't mean that we all have to jump off that same bridge. It's nice to see the Captain has this much support. I'm done.
peace!
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Post by The Night Phantom on Jan 27, 2007 6:56:27 GMT -5
Didn't we all suspect this was coming, anyway? I mean, I know that the teaser image and discussions have all speculated that it would be Mar Vell, so it shouldn't come as a big surprise or shock. Why all the vitriol? It's like "you think they're gonna do it?" "they better not do it." "I think they're going to do it." and then when the comic finally comes out, it's "I can't believe they did it!" We certainly considered that the returning hero might be Mar-Vell, but it was hardly a foregone conclusion, as a perusal of the early posts in this thread will plainly reveal. However, as I mentioned the other day, it isn’t just the who but also the how.
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ozbot
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Post by ozbot on Jan 27, 2007 12:25:28 GMT -5
it isn’t just the who but also the how. Once again, I TOTALLY agree about the how. I get the impression from many of the posts here, however, that no matter WHAT the how, people would say it's a terrible story because ANY "how" would invalidate the Death Of story. In which case, they are really arguing that they don't want Mar Vell resurrected by any means. Fair enough. Actually, as I typed this, I can think of other "resurrections" that WOULD invalidate the story. For example, if an actor was hired to replace Mar Vell and that was the person who actually died, and Mar Vell was instead kidnapped by an arch foe or something. But this scenario is totally ludicrous and would never be approved by any writer or editor ever.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jan 27, 2007 12:36:16 GMT -5
You know, as ludicrous as that was, I'm willing to argue the case that I'd rather take a writer who comes with such a ridiculous and, even worse, unoriginal scenario, over SOME OTHER WRITERS I WON'T MENTION, who work under the principle of imperial fiat, capriciously have characters act & behave in ways highly atipical for them & situations likewise occur without rhyme & reason, all the while assuming they owe their readers nary an explanation for it...
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jkemble
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Post by jkemble on Jan 27, 2007 16:51:15 GMT -5
it isn’t just the who but also the how. Once again, I TOTALLY agree about the how. I get the impression from many of the posts here, however, that no matter WHAT the how, people would say it's a terrible story because ANY "how" would invalidate the Death Of story. In which case, they are really arguing that they don't want Mar Vell resurrected by any means. Fair enough. not me, I don't care that much about Captain Marvel. again, what really pissed me off was Joe Q's "Hey, let's sell the kitchen sink, the baby AND the bath water." sorry, I never liked sell-outs. maybe I can't put my finger on just what it is, but it seems that Marvel under Joe Q is selling anything they can. it's like all sensationalism, without any real content. 'let's take an old tried and true X-Men concept (registration) and apply it to the Marvel Universe at large. but since it's already been done at least four times, let's bring in the Sentinals (again), unmask Spider-man (again), kill some b-listers (again) Cap vs Iron (again) okay, so let's jazz it up by heroes Return, Thor, Dr. Doom, Captain Marvel, Black Costume Spidey, Pennance (III). . .'C so don't get me wrong, I am an x-head, I'm probably more down with tragic deaths and heroic resurections than the typical Avengers fan... where do you think the X-Men got their trademark "I got better" slogan from? I prefer that if they (meaning the Marvel editorial team) are going to make such wide sweeping changes to the charecters that thousands of people follow (like Storm, Black Panther, Spiderman, Hawkeye, Captain Marvel...) at least present them in a story that has some unique quality, try to make it a timeless tale, something memorable... remember quality over quanity. Even the 'Hero vs. Hero' concept is not new. the whole Civil War event is just a bunch of re-used ideas and Marvel is throwing everything at it to make it a big seller. Now don't get me started on Mervel's latest "retro-fitting" continuety... Brrrrrrr!
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jkemble
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Post by jkemble on Jan 27, 2007 16:54:18 GMT -5
...and I hear next summer he's turning his gaze back to the X-Men... double Brrrrrrrr!
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jkemble
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Post by jkemble on Jan 27, 2007 20:51:32 GMT -5
this just in: Joe Q talks about The ReturnNRAMA: We're going to have to go into SPOILER HEAVY MODE here for a few - this week's Civil War: The Return. Allow us to summarize the feelings of many readers – “Good Lord, man - why? The Death of Captain Marvel was one of landmarks of an era” ... and this ... well, going back to the start - what was the editorial department scuttlebutt like when this particular return was suggested? JQ: There was no scuttle at all, we just have a very cool plan for the Captain, so stay tuned is all I can say. I recall the same kind of reaction to the idea of Bucky returning, don’t you? Truth be told, this is really simple, tell a great story, give fans the unexpected and this kind of knee-jerk reaction goes away. If we don’t do our job right, it doesn’t matter who you bring back or who you kill, it just ends up not working. So, from my point of view, while I appreciate interFRETS reaction and the passion that lies behind it, I can’t run my business based upon it. As I’ve said many times, if I did, we would be out of business and if not that, then at the very least we would be looking at a Marvel sans many things beginning with the Ultimate U and moving onward from there. NRAMA: "Coming Soon - Captain Marvel #1" - got a date and creative team for that? JQ: I have no idea what you’re talking about? Oh, okay, you got me…. You’ll have to wait and see [laughs] NRAMA: Was Jim Starlin consulted or asked his feelings? Obviously, his work was work for hire, but the OGN was very personal... a la the use of Elektra or something like that... JQ: We didn’t speak with Jim about it at this time, because this story doesn’t really invalidate the Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel. However, a few years ago, when the previous Captain Marvel series starring Genis was running, there was a period where we considered resurrecting Mar-Vell, and at that point Jim didn’t have a major issue with those plans. NRAMA: Still though - the reason he was brought back...to be a warden in a jail, and now, as a soldier on a side where he doesn't really understand the conflict...is that...um...in your view, what does that do for the character? JQ: No, he was brought back to be an active character within the Marvel Universe, and to have stories told about him. And you’ll see those stories in the weeks and months to come. As a literal man-out-of-time who knows the hour and day of his own death, there are now all sorts of interesting avenues where you can take Mar-Vell. NRAMA: Just so we're keeping track of all the appropriate genies and bottles, was this (bringing Captain Marvel back) one of your plans all along, or did this one sneak up on you? JQ: His return was planned out early on during the Civil War planning stages. from Newsarama's Joe Friday #32 www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays32.html
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 27, 2007 21:32:48 GMT -5
Okay, I just picked up the book so it's time to weigh in.
First, I have to disagree with the folks that say that this issue cheapens "The Death of Captain Marvel" which was a great story. The reason I say this is because the Captain Marvel who has returned is from an alternate timeline, therefore it does not mean that the death in question didn't really happen. I agree that the return of Jean Grey did cheapen the death of the Phoenix, because it explained that Jean never really died. This story didn't do that.
However, with that said, I still wasn't crazy about the book. I didn't understand why only Captain Marvel could be the warden for the Negative Zone prison. Hopefully this will be explained later. I also get really annoyed with all the relationships Sentry supposedly had with all these characters in the past. That was a dumb story when it was first told and it remains dumb every time they rewrite history to include the character as a central part of it.
Also, there is a debate that has been going on in another thread about the use of thought balloons, footnotes, and narrative boxes. I agree with the folks that say that these things can be used well or used poorly. I don't agree with Joe Q's feelings that thought balloons and footnotes automatically take away from the reality of the story. However, if those things are a distraction, aren't the silly narrative boxes that have some outside voice (The writer, I guess) explaining the story to the character even worse. I really hate boxes that say things like "It's too early. You didn't expect to return to the real world so soon, but unforeseen circumstances dictate...as they always do." This really takes me out of the story because no one is even talking to me. Is Captain Marvel reading the story or am I? This continued right on through the Sentry story. Was anyone else bugged by it?
Oh, and on the subject of Joe Q's promising that "Dead is dead." I agree that when handled properly, a return can be okay but when everyone returns it does kind of make you not care when someone dies. The main reason this issue with Joe annoys me isn't that I think he should not allow any returns just because he said it, but that he should be more honest in what he says in the first place. And I don't think these have been mentioned... Two Gun Kid...back from the dead Agatha Harkness...back from the dead (Or so it seems) At least I did like that when Sentry destroyed the Absorbing Man, it was stated right out that "You already know he'll be back." At least it was honest. Of course, I would have liked it much better if Sentry had simply thought "Oh well, he'll be back."
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Post by redstatecap on Jan 27, 2007 23:54:42 GMT -5
One of the major issues I have with Joe Quesada, and his supporters, is that they portray the choice as either-or. That is -- either Marvel can be profitable and stay in business, or Marvel can stick to a standard of artistic integrity. This contention is false. Marvel managed to stay in business for 42 years while Bucky was dead. Marvel managed to stay in business for 25 years while Captain Marvel was dead. There is room to make money while honoring and preserving the great stories of the past. What is really happening is that Joe Quesada and co. have chosen to prostitute out every property that Marvel possesses and tilt to the far extreme of the "profitability vs. integrity" spectrum. Of course, Quesada will never admit this, and instead camoflages his motives with semantic games and outright falsehoods.
RSC
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jan 28, 2007 12:27:02 GMT -5
Wow.
That was all at once so obscenely biased, pathetic, twisted, moronic and totally utterly wrong that I am literally lost for words.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Jan 28, 2007 16:30:14 GMT -5
That was all at once so obscenely biased, pathetic, twisted, moronic and totally utterly wrong that I am literally lost for words. Seems you managed to find a few.
Maybe Captain Marvel isn’t really Mar-Vell? I was thinking about something I posted previously: Could the returning hero be…another aspect of the Sentry? The guy’s got multiple-personality and -manifestation issues already, and he also has some history with the Negative Zone… Did the Sentry find Captain Marvel? or did he create a Captain Marvel?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jan 28, 2007 21:41:50 GMT -5
Uuummm... is this the same Doom who, up until now, always managed to argue & counterargue without falling into the swampy terrain of personal attacks...? Et tu, Doom...? And what I mean by that is that you call redstatecap's opinions "moronic"... Well, shouldn't he be entitled to them as much as you are to yours, even when some of us find them unreasonably, eeriely upbeat & optimistic...?
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 28, 2007 22:08:47 GMT -5
Wow. That was all at once so obscenely biased, pathetic, twisted, moronic and totally utterly wrong that I am literally lost for words. You know, I won't say I agreed with Red's original statement completely. I don't think Joe Q is out to purposely prostitute everything about Marvel, but the statement wasn't THAT outrageous. Had a bad day, Doom?
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jkemble
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the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Jan 28, 2007 22:52:34 GMT -5
well, he is evil after all...
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jan 29, 2007 3:55:48 GMT -5
I've found a better way to define those people whom I consider "unreasonably, eeriely upbeat & optimistic": Stepford Fans...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jan 29, 2007 5:47:17 GMT -5
Indeed, I apologize- I was in a bad mood at the time and seeking a strong adjective. "Moronic" was not the word I sought but it was all my weary mind could proscribe for him. "Radical" would be the word I was seeking, methinks. So I apologize to you all for that childish insult.
...and am I the only one who finds it ironic that the "unreasonably, errily upbeat and optimistic" one is the one named "Doom"?
Indeed I have. But I disagree with almost every single sentence of RSC's post. To demonstrate:
This speaks for itself. Neither Joe nor myself or any fellow supporter have ever portrayed this choice as either or because we don't believe there IS a choice because as stunning as this may be for you to believe RSC, we're pretty sure Marvel right now sticks to a standard of artistic integrity.
I don't think anyone has ever said that resurrecting these characters was keeping Marvel afloat. Rather, resurrecting these characters opened up countless new story-telling possibilities in what is, after all, a story telling medium. To portray it otherwise is a falsehood itself.
Except that no, because at present I believe they are balancing it very well and there are thousands of fans who would agree with me.
This just reeks of arrogance RSC. You're saying that because YOU believe this, it MUST be true, and Joe and all his fans MUST know it's true and MUST be lying to cover it, rather than, y'know, saying the truth as we see it.
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 29, 2007 9:11:55 GMT -5
No what I said was the stole the time travel before he died from DC... Take a look at Barry Allen, all his appearances are based on that. The difference is that CM is just a cash in, Barry Allen was part of a story. What he should do is say what he means, instead of playing word games. I agree if he had stuck by it comics would be worse off, this does not excuse the fact that he lies. And I know Flash fans that would disagree. Surprise. But you can lay good money, that if the comic sells well, CM will cheat his death somehow... That is my problem with it. Lets be honest, Marvel did it because they think they can suck in the old time fans and make some more money. I know they are business but it seems like everything they do anymore is based around a gimmick or a flash in the pan idea, to get quick money. This is just another one. Really I would love if they would just tell some stories, that had a beginning-middle and end, and try and sell the charaters they have. Oh well... each to his/her own i guess.
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ozbot
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Post by ozbot on Jan 29, 2007 13:52:51 GMT -5
Lets be honest, Marvel did it because they think they can suck in the old time fans and make some more money. I know they are business but it seems like everything they do anymore is based around a gimmick or a flash in the pan idea, to get quick money. This is just another one. Really I would love if they would just tell some stories, that had a beginning-middle and end, and try and sell the charaters they have. Oh well... each to his/her own i guess. So we all agree that Marvel wants to make money. That's true. But why does any attempt to want to make money come across as crass? It isn't. What if the creators at Marvel really WANT to make Captain Marvel stories? What if they really WANT Captain Marvel to be embraced by a new generation of readers? Chances are, these are the real reasons behind this "money-grubbing" decision. How can you tell if it's supposed to be a flash in the pan or quick money unless it pans out as truly a revitalized franchise? As for telling stories beginning-middle-end, that only works to some extent with a medium that is by nature episodic. As for telling stories with characters they already have, how can you ever introduce new ones?
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 29, 2007 14:14:30 GMT -5
Lets be honest, Marvel did it because they think they can suck in the old time fans and make some more money. I know they are business but it seems like everything they do anymore is based around a gimmick or a flash in the pan idea, to get quick money. This is just another one. Really I would love if they would just tell some stories, that had a beginning-middle and end, and try and sell the charaters they have. Oh well... each to his/her own i guess. So we all agree that Marvel wants to make money. That's true. But why does any attempt to want to make money come across as crass? It isn't. What if the creators at Marvel really WANT to make Captain Marvel stories? What if they really WANT Captain Marvel to be embraced by a new generation of readers? Chances are, these are the real reasons behind this "money-grubbing" decision. How can you tell if it's supposed to be a flash in the pan or quick money unless it pans out as truly a revitalized franchise? As for telling stories beginning-middle-end, that only works to some extent with a medium that is by nature episodic. As for telling stories with characters they already have, how can you ever introduce new ones? Let me reverse that, and ask, how can you tell that they are not. This stinks of gimmick, flash, quick money. Lets stick this in on the end of CW to bring somemore people. How many charaters does marvel have out there already, do you know. Lets be conservative and guess over 100... Do they already have a charater with the name Captain Marvel, well by god they do, surprise. Maybe if they dedicated time to that charater, it would work out better. Since Joe Q took over, marvel has become a series of gimmicks and flashy big events, that 5 months later mean little. Sure they have the writers trying to tell good stories like Brubaker, Oemming, Slott, David and Kirkman. I am sorry but I disagree with you and you did not make a single statement that showed that mine where wrong. thank you
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ozbot
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Post by ozbot on Jan 29, 2007 15:58:40 GMT -5
I'd just like to point out that I'm not trying to parse statements in order to prove that you are wrong. For either of us to prove our side of the arguement, we'd have to most likely be working for Marvel and have tangible evidence if not first hand experience that Joe Q is demanding purely superficial gimmicks from all writers while pointing to a sales chart. Perhaps a video of him gleefully chuckling while money runs over his wriggling fingers. Perhaps a photograph of him swimming through coins like Uncle Scrooge. Or perhaps a diary with entries penned in his own hand with "it's mine, all mine!"
I think the picture we'd be much more likely to see is one that paints Joe Q more like Richie Rich than Uncle Scrooge. If something is cool or sparks his interest, he does it. Someone says, hey, let's go to that one deli we haven't been to in a while. Joe Q says, whoa, that's right! I LOVE that deli! Hey, let's go for our big lunch meeting, so everyone can go! Maybe we could even start a tradition-- every Thurs. is deli day! Let's do it!
It makes for interesting publishing schedules and probably wouldn't survive a more corporate enviornment like, say, Walt Disney Co., who seems more interested in demographics and market research in order to gauge public interest. But it does make being a comics *consumer* more fun! Look at all the lively debates it causes!
Now, I'm still horribly, horribly, down on The Return. It *was* poorly executed and a lackluster comic in and of itself. Perhaps if he tied it to Annihilation instead, would everyone still be getting upset?
Also, I just remembered. Wouldn't it be Bill Jemas that would be the king of superficial gimmick? Remember Tsunami? U-Decide?
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 29, 2007 16:08:59 GMT -5
Oh yes I remember Tsunami and U-decide, both where bad... Now we have the word New getting stuck in front of comics, and all the dead charaters that Marvel swore for years and years would never come back, coming back.
Tell me that is not gimmick... Your right though Bill Jemas was the king of gimmicks, Joe Q is just the prince....
Who remember HOM? Dissasembled? Reload? and now CW (Although I will give you CW does seem like it may acutally last and effect things.
ON a side not, I just imagined Joe Q jumping in to piles of cash and laughed I disagree off, thanks. LOL
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jkemble
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Post by jkemble on Jan 29, 2007 19:34:19 GMT -5
... Who remember HOM? Dissasembled? Reload? and now CW (Although I will give you CW does seem like it may acutally last and effect things. hey now, let's not bring House of M into this. even though I admit it was poorly wrote, the after effects are still being felt, mostly due to Decimation. but the de-powering of mutants was not the only change that HoM/Decimation produced; there was also the recollection of Wolverines past, even though it hasn't played out very much yet, Storm marries Black Panther (even though it seems unrelated, it was like "the Return" in that it seems to be spawned from the x-universe shake-up.) then we got a quasi-evil Quicksilver re-power mutants with stolen Terrigen Mist which leads to a cold war with the Inhumans. also, even though it's not a big seller, I think Ms. Marvel's new title spun out of HoM, and I'm really digging it. Plus, I think HoM played directly into Civil War as more fire to build the case for registration. on top of all that, with the loss of so many mutants, the X-Men themselves had to restructure their teams and Rouge got her own squad, and actually, it's now my favorite x-men book, not because of Rouge, but because the writing. So, as an oft stated x-head (every message board should have at least one), please don't dis HoM. even though it was lackluster, it did shake things up a bit and set a new direction for the x-titles. maybe Captain Marvel #1 will be that kind of book, lackluster intro to a great series. for all you fans, I hope so. I'm sure the effects of Civil War will be felt into next (2008) year, like the HoM residue. It might work, I just think that someone at Marvel is selling everything they can with Civil War to make it a media giant, and it leaves me to wonder with what's left, or will these changes actually matter down the road? House of MAgneto was a tired concept, I've seen reality altered in the X and Marvel U too many times for it to be fresh, but the resulting Decimation that de-powered a reported 90% (although it's hard to tell) of the Marvel Mutant population is something you don't see everday. temporarily, yes, permanently, no. anyway, my final thougths are something like this: Joe might have a plan, unmasking spiderman, decimating the mutants, bringing back Bucky, Thor and Captain Marvel, and even though we don't all agree on the exicution, one day we might look back and see that the man did have an ace up his sleeve. maybe. maybe he's sitting in a dark room somewhere sweating how he's going to fix things, but, that's probably what he hires writers and editors for. don't stress, things might turn out alright.
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Jan 29, 2007 19:38:54 GMT -5
uh, is it just me, or is Doc's avitar showing up broken on your monitor too?
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