|
|
Post by dlw66 on Aug 25, 2006 12:52:11 GMT -5
I guess the days of "ghost artists" are over. Of course, if you look at what was coming out of Image 10 years ago, I don't think it would be too hard today to find someone who could have covered McNiven on a short notice.
Do delays beat the old days of reprints all of a sudden showing up? Obviously you can't reprint in this situation, but I do recall my frustration when Marvel would slip us an old story (see #150 for an example).
|
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 27, 2006 6:41:45 GMT -5
Firstly, I've never seen anything from Joe Q about DC which seemed serious. Secondly, of course DC haven't made fun of Marvel- it's not like Marvel came out and said "HAH! DC do fill-ins!" They gave a DC comic as an example. BUT they actually added
"I?m not saying that DC was wrong to do this ? I don?t know what kinds of financial pressures they might have been under, or publishing plan pressures they might have been under."
See?
THe way Joe treats DC IS my idea of friendly. It's friendly mocking. Joe Q did NOT say DC were less concerned with poutting out a good product, he pointed out TRUTHFULLY that many people were disappointed with the fill-ins in Infinite Crisis. Not only that, but he GAVE EXAMPLES OF MARVEL BOOKS AS WELL as Infinite Crisis.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Night Phantom on Aug 27, 2006 12:55:25 GMT -5
THe way Joe treats DC IS my idea of friendly. It's friendly mocking. I’m no Quesada fan, but the Doc may have something there. Sometimes people do mock affectionately. This can vary a lot regionally, and ultimately from person to person. I find Joe Q rubs me the wrong way, but it’s possible his style plays well in (for instance) Brooklyn. But it would be nice if Marvel could find an editor-in-chief whose PR skills played more broadly. In any case, when I read his comments I try to look for “news I can use” rather than tone or insight. |
|
|
|
Post by imperiusrex on Aug 27, 2006 19:40:15 GMT -5
What about this one where Joe says they've got three times the a list talent that DC has (which is a matter of taste. I mean, Bendis??) www.comicfoundry.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=241And this one where Joe essentially eggs on a fan who didn't like Infinite Crisis? www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=005393and this one where he admits he takes shots at DC "all in good fun..." www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/30/AR2006063001880_pf.htmland this one where Joe talks about how he attributes the great publication and coordination of Civil War to his great editorial staff (this one just makes me laugh in hindsight) comics.ign.com/articles/720/720528p1.htmldoes DC find his ribbing good natured? Evidently not as they've gone on record to say they will not work with Marvel as long as the Q is EIC, so I guess someone besides me doesn't find his rivalry "fun." comics.ign.com/articles/634/634996p1.htmlwhy do they dislike Joe? Hmm maybe this link has a clue. "They might as well call it AOL Comics." oh and Joe curses about DC too. This is a family website so I wont repeat it... www.comicavalanche.com/columns/archives/cosmiccorner/cosmiccorner021905.htmmy finger is getting tired so I won't keep going, but Joe is a jerk and I can link dozens more examples of it. And the quote from Tom Brevoort that's discussed here about DC's publishing is fairly passive aggressive. i.e. "I don't know why they couldn't do a better job, maybe there was just too much pressure on them..." why bring it up at all except to make yourselves look better by comparison? anyway, I can sense I'll make no converts with this, but Joe seems to have a one sided rivalry which just appears to annoy DC from what their reaction has been. Maybe he should just concentrate on having good comics and let the fans create the rivalry. |
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 28, 2006 6:22:15 GMT -5
sorry Imperius, but many of those just don't work for me.
Firstly, I still maintain Marvel has a far better list than DC does and it is OBVIOUS that the EiC in Marvel would say as much. I mean, they're not going to say "Dc has 3 times the list we do!" Marvel has Bendis, who is excellent when not on Avengers, they have the fantastic Brubaker, the amazing Millar, the very tight JMS, etc, etc. The best DC have is Waid, who is BRILLIANT Miller- the same, but after that it falls flat. I mean, they have my least-favourite writer, Grant Morrison for Heaven's sake, the man who ruined magneto!
Secondly- you say he essentially 'eggs on' a fan who... again, RIDICULOUS.
QUESTION: I am a DC fan. But I've really been loving Civil War. Infinite Crisis was kind of ...
ANSWER: QUESADA: What?
FAN: Well ... you know?
QUESADA: C'mon say it!
FAN: Kind of been there, done that.
QUESADA: Hey, you said that, not me. Do you have a question?
FAN: No. I just wanted to make a comment and say I was really enjoying Civil War.
Again, that seriously DOES strike me as just ribbing at DC in a friendly manner and I maintain ANYONE would have done it since the guy began after all.
He DOES take shots at DC all in good fun.
Your example of DC not working with Marvel is hardly because of the shots he takes at them, I would more say it is because the two companies are, AS THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED TO STATES, moving in opposite directions.
Your last article is of course about the DC/Marvel hatred. Joe Q raises some valid points- I have long been of the opinion that they have brilliant heroes and don't know what to do with them. Clearly he wants to encourage a rivalry and rightly so.
|
|
|
|
Post by imperiusrex on Aug 28, 2006 9:28:56 GMT -5
well, then we're just of completely different opinions.
first to say you have three times their a-list talent when much of the talent flows back and forth is pointless. How about just saying "we have a talent roster that I think is the best in the industry?"
For Joe it works because he wants this rivalry, BUT DC DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY.
And it's not just the different directions thing -DC has directly said when the top management at Marvel changes, they'll work with Marvel again. DC doesn't play the calling out card, because, again, they don't want to have this rivalry that Joe is trying to start.
If you think that this following quote is friendly and good natured and valid and the way an EIC of a company that has SpiderMan and Captain America should talk then I certainly am never gonna change your mind...
He went on to state “What the f--k is DC anyway? They’d be better off calling it AOL Comics. At least people know what AOL is. I mean, they have Batman and Superman, and they don’t know what to do with them. That’s like being a porn star with the biggest thingy and you can’t get it up. What the f--k?”
You stay classy Joe Quesada...
|
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 28, 2006 13:12:38 GMT -5
Oh I agree with many of your points but here's the thing. I don't see ANY of thse as critiques of Je Q, but as critiques of the industry as a whole. I am 100% of the opinion that ANY editor of ANY company would have said most of those things. It's just the way the business world works. Of course DC don't like Joe Q, because he helped SIGNIFICENTLY in turning Marvel around and making them a competitor who are now on average beating DC worldwide. It is great publicity for DC to refuse to work with them, and it gets people talking in a negative way about the editor of Marvel- which is of course exactly what DC want.
|
|
steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
|
Post by steed on Aug 28, 2006 13:25:46 GMT -5
How about we get back to the topic at hand, namely the delay.
This is what Millar says about the delay...
"Steve is a pretty fast artist, maybe a nine or ten books a year guy, but he only had a six or seven week head start on this series. Absolutely nothing at all. And it was always going to catch up with him, especially given that 100 characters appear in every issue and it's the most labor-intensive thing he's ever drawn."
OK, so if you know that the artist can only put out 9 or 10 books a year, then why don't you plan a little more in advance and have 3 or maybe 4 issues of a series completed before you start publishing it. Is Marvel so strapped for cash that they can't have an artist and writer work on a special mini series in advance to make sure it comes out in time, especially when it's supposed to be an event that changes the MU for a long time.
And just so some one doesn't think I'm on a Marvel bashing kick, DC does this crap too and it also upsets me. Look at that 7 Soldiers of Victory series they tried to do. Shipping schedules got so messed up I never knew when the books were coming out. Today I saw Westfield Comics is soliciting the final issue and I laughed. I lost interest in this soooo long ago I'll never buy it. Not even in a collection.
It just goes back these guys having no respect for us, the readers. They know they can do whatever they want with the characters and publish it whenever they feel and that we'll still buy it.
And they definitely have no respect for the small retailers who have to plan their budgets on the release dates set by the Big Two, only to get screwed.
And on a different note, how do you guys put those slick looking quote boxes in your posts. They look so cool.
|
|
|
|
Post by balok on Aug 28, 2006 15:33:30 GMT -5
I spoke to the guy who owns the comic shop I mostly visit and he didn't seem concerned. Apparently it's not uncommon for books to appear and never ship, apparently without any explanation at all. Of course, he could be saying that as damage control - downplay the impact to a nervous customer.
Personally I regard this slip as a serious f**kup that (were I the owner of Marvel) would cost people their jobs. Mistakes like that on flagship books (and right now that's what CW is) cost the company a lot of cash flow. They'll certainly lose some readers as the gloss of it wears off over the period of the delay. Proper planning would have given McNiven sufficient lead time to go his job. It wouldn't even matter if the book was a minor player or an ongoing series not a flagship book or even a cross-over book. But this is the single significant story of the year for this company.
As far as Joe is concerned, my opinion is that his "good natured ribbing" conceals a deeper rooted animosity. In fact, companies don't hate, the people who run them do. And good managers don't hate competitors, they regard solid competition as incentive. Energy wasted hating is energy not spent improving. What Quesada has done strikes me as unprofessional. Levitz' responses are somewhat more professional, but he should be willing to do a crossover book if it will sell well, regardless of what Quesada says. A professional doesn't talk smack. A professional also ignores the other guy's smack and quietly goes about the business of making and selling his company's product.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Night Phantom on Aug 28, 2006 17:20:20 GMT -5
What Quesada has done strikes me as unprofessional. I generally agree, and I think the dearth of professionalism extends beyond the Civil War comments or Joe Q’s relationship with DC in general. As an example, I think his lengthy taunting of Speedball’s possible impending death was cruel to fans of the character. It’s one thing to tease by hinting and holding back, but resorting to fallaciousness and mockery is another. Another example: I remember Joe Q, when asked about a certain property (I believe it was Thor), said that fans would “love I disagree” when plans for said property came to fruition. I think the comment stands on its own. And on a different note, how do you guys put those slick looking quote boxes in your posts. They look so cool. Wrap the quotation in [quote][/quote] tags. E.g., [quote]With great power comes great responsibility.[/quote]: If your intent is to quote another post on the board, usually it’s simplest to use the “quote” link that appears at the top of the post, rather than a “reply” link. The “quote” link acts like the “reply” link but sets up the original post in [quote][/quote] tags for you. |
|
Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
|
Post by Ultron on Aug 28, 2006 19:27:00 GMT -5
I spoke to the guy who owns the comic shop I mostly visit and he didn't seem concerned. Apparently it's not uncommon for books to appear and never ship, apparently without any explanation at all. Of course, he could be saying that as damage control - downplay the impact to a nervous customer. Admitedly, all the retailers i spoke with, i was not costumer of, we were good friends and speaking in the absense of costumers. The problem with Civil War is that it's the best selling comic - best grossing - on the stands, and that the books delayed are major books and more than one, they represent[ed] a pretty good chunk of expected revenues till the end of the year. |
|
Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
|
Post by Ultron on Aug 28, 2006 19:40:27 GMT -5
BENDIS! writes better runs than Frank Miller, even though he never read an issue of Daredevil in his life. Joe Q never childishly beschmirches DC, even though he apparently never read one of his interviews - The only way of never having noticed it ;D A pattern seems to be forming: Knowledge vacated by Belief. |
|
|
|
Post by Shiryu on Sept 1, 2006 17:02:34 GMT -5
Going back to topic, am I the only one who thinks they could have changed artist (or at least alternating) ? McNiven art is not that good IMO, and great crossovers of the past (ever since Secret Wars) have had 2 artists.
As for Quesada, the fact that we haven't had a Marvel / DC crossover after Avengers/JLA speaks for itself.
|
|
|
|
Post by balok on Sept 1, 2006 21:48:35 GMT -5
Going back to topic, am I the only one who thinks they could have changed artist (or at least alternating) ? McNiven art is not that good IMO, and great crossovers of the past (ever since Secret Wars) have had 2 artists. As for Quesada, the fact that we haven't had a Marvel / DC crossover after Avengers/JLA speaks for itself. I would agree, but I suspect the same hasty process of bringing together the project might have precluded other artists as well. You'd want a good one - ideally a fan favorite - for a project that's to be the flagship of the company's entire year. And those guys are often committed to other projects in the near term from any particular point. So it comes down to this: the project was pulled together too quickly. It might even by that Marvel quietly looked around for a fill-in artist and the ones available didn't meet its requirements, so it dropped back ten and punted, saying that the delay was for reasons of artistic integrity. People usually lie, and none more often than public relations specialists. It's their job after all. As for Quesada, that's suggestive but not conclusive. Crossovers require a lot of work in the planning phase because each company is chiefly there to use the project to promote its own characters and that usually results in tensions pulling at cross purposes. Each company wants its characters to win any conflicts so they don't look like chumps, and I'd imagine a series of rather delication negotiations have to take place that define the story parameters long before scribe sets fingers to keyboard. |
|
Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
|
Post by Ultron on Sept 1, 2006 21:54:47 GMT -5
Going back to topic, am I the only one who thinks they could have changed artist (or at least alternating) ? McNiven art is not that good IMO, and great crossovers of the past (ever since Secret Wars) have had 2 artists. As for Quesada, the fact that we haven't had a Marvel / DC crossover after Avengers/JLA speaks for itself. It has since been taken as policy in DC Comics that no further crossovers will be made until the management in Marvel changes. I believe Dan is on quote as not collaborating with Marvel while Joe Q is EIC. |
|
|
|
Post by Shiryu on Sept 2, 2006 5:00:34 GMT -5
Well, you can't really blame them then. I wouldn't want to work with someone who consistently attacks me either.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Doom on Sept 2, 2006 10:21:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry? I assume that was referring to me, even though it was completely wrong. If it wasn't me, I apologize. But I have never once said that Bendis writes better runs than Frank Miller. I have said repeatedly that IGN claims that, showing that everyone has different opinions. Indeed, I believe I expressed my doubts given Miller's highly lauded run.
I have read MANY of Joe Q's interviews, and I maintain it is not Joe Q personally's fault and that any Editor could and would have done it.
|
|
