Super Duper Iron Man

[Nutcase65]

I am interested in everone's opinion here but specifically I would like the good Doctor Dooms opinion.

1st, from the time I first picked up Marvel I loved Iron Man, Favorite hero hands down

2nd, from the time I first picked up comics I preferred Marvel to the distinguished compitition mainly because Marvels heroes seemed more,.. human. (i.e. that entire galaxy is about to crash into our planet, what ever will we do? Look up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a pl,... you get the picture)

Then came extremis,

Now Tony, in my opinion is a Superman class hero. Almost all powerful. Which,for me takes the fun out of the character.

So,.. Civil War aside. What do you guys think about about Iron Man's power level?
Is it too much?

[Doctor Bong]

For all the hoopla about Extremis, I'm not sure Tony is REALLY that much more powerful than before...
He's supposed to be able to react much faster now, but I'm not sure if this has really been noticeably demonstrated on his book (or others); other than that, the one ability that he HAS gained is truly awesome: to summon a veritable army of "Iron Men".
What really worries me (aside from the way his personality is currently portrayed) is the level of POLITICAL power he wields now....

[balok]

Extremis also repairs his injuries and may possibly enhance his physical capabilities. In addition, he is never without the suit, if memory serves, because he stores it inside him somehow.

[Nutcase65]

There is also the issue of him having total accessability to all electronics basically. All information, seems like a lot of power

[Doctor Bong]

Yeah, but in actuality, THAT ONE was already in operation for some time before Extremis happened, only the wtiter didn't seem to realize it...
There are several instances prior to extremis on his own book & in the Avengers were he, while wearing his current armor, manipulates electronic devices without having to touch them...

[Nutcase65]

but it is even more pronounced than before. He c an access all information worldwide, instantaneously. He can see though television cameras.

He can read what I'm,.typing,..as,...I,....type,.....

Know what, forget it,..... I love Iron Man

[balok]

It seems to me that such a thing is a two way street. Someone with real computer skill has already taken control of Tony's armor. With extremis onboard, someone could take control of him. Sure, it would take a real genius, but Marvel has a number of them in the stable. With that much power, they could make him do almost any kind of harm.

A villain, interested in seeing registration shown as a failure, might well do this sort of thing to discredit its chief proponent. It would also be a nice twist, to show Tony what it's like to be one of his nanobot victims.

[Bored Yesterday]

Those powers don't sound like the hero I remember. Sounds like a new hero, "Bandwidth Man," maybe -- but Iron Man, to me is all about a human-sized tank with a fragile person inside who forgets to close his eye slits at crucial moments.

[balok]

Well, Iron Man is sort of Marvel's "uber engineer" so if his powers were to evolve, this is the logical direction in which they should evolve.

[Bored Yesterday]

Yeah, but his previous accomplishments have been in the areas of mechanical and aero engineering. Software engineering is a totally different science.

To support your point, Tony has demonstrated expertise in electro-magnetic energy, aero-space dynamics, and metallurgy -- all of these would be different fields of science in the real world -- so maybe you're right -- Tony is the all around "know it all" guy after all. I wonder if he keeps up with entertainment news or if he's totally clueless when it comes to things like "the People Magazine edition of Trivial Pursuit." He must have at least ONE weakness.

And Bandwidth Man would be totally boring to read about.

[Nutcase65]

well it is like Tony said during his sililoquy in 'the confession' his talent is really in seeing what needs are going to come up and then inventing things that fill those needs. That being the case he WOULD master those things that allow for that, and know that he has extremis on board he processes that kind of stuff even faster.

[Doctor Doom]

I am interested in everone's opinion here but specifically I would like the good Doctor Dooms opinion.

Wow! Sorry it took me s overy long to notice! I apologize most profusely.

My view is simple: Nope. I honestly feel the calibre of a heor's power should depend on the hero. Superman has ridiculous amounts of power because in general, someone with his power level should be able to defeat his rogue gallery in a second. Same with Sentry. Thor doesn't have too much, because his rogues gallery match him- the same with, say, the Green Lantern. But Iron Man... I feel more power is fine for him, as while his rogues gallery may not match, it provides enormous fodder for storylines which couldn'#t be told with such power in the hands of, say, Sentry.

[Nutcase65]

I swear Doom I actually seek out your input and you snub for a long time. I'm hurt.

[balok]

Iron Man has foes at a wider range of power levels than many heroes. No one would ever put Blacklash in the same class as the Mandarin. With Extremis onboard, writers should concentrate on Tony's most powerful opponents, and even give him some new ones. This would also fit with his new, increasingly important stature in 616.

[Nutcase65]

Who would you see him fight in his augmented state.

I'd like to see Loki heavily augment the Spymaster and then have Tony face first the one and then the other.

[Alchemist-X]

His power over technology, to have his suit at a momments notice and control it with thought are really the only things enchanced. In the pure brawn department his suit is more or less the same. Fighting Fin Fang Foom for example would be just as hard and just as fun. (Maybe more fun)

What I think would be cool is if someone gave a Titanium Man an Extremis does and sent him out there to crush IM, now that would be an arch-nemesis.

[Nutcase65]

The thing is, He was already pretty strong as it was. Those extra things Extrimis did for him makes that Strength a much more potent weapon. It adds spped, enhanced response,.. and actually thinking back to the Extremis story it seemed to boost his basic strength somewhat as well. I'll go review it later, but in that las fight it seemed he was able to battle more physically than before.

I'm looking froward to seeing some of the long-term effects this is bound to have.

[balok]

It's been awhile, but I think without his armor, extremis-Tony approaches what an Olympic level athlete can do - the nanomachines optimized his wet parts. In addition, he stores his armor in the hollows of his bones (note: bones are not hollow - they contain marrow and other cells) and he has mental control over at least the armor. I don't think he's notably more effective with the armor than he was before, but extremis removes his principal weakness: what happens if someone throws him out of a plane (for example) without his trusty briefcase.

[Nutcase65]

I have to disagree Balok. He is much more effective. Look at the fight with the extremis guy before and after extremis Tony.

Tony is much faster and has better response times that he fully credits to extremis.

[Alchemist-X]

I think Tony is just as fast as before, but his reflexes are 100% in sync with control of his armor so he can utilize his top speed with more agility and maneaverability, especially since this armor isn't as bulky as some others versions before.

And while all this extremis stuff makes him better in his own book against his enemies, I don't see it changing his spot in the overall spectrum of marvel powerlevels

[Nutcase65]

Before:
Issue 4 Tony talks about lacking "speed of deployment...speed of operation" and that extremis "moved faster than I could operate my armor"

After:
Issue 6 " I'm as fast as you and running this suit by thought" meaning he wasn't as fast before. Even if it is just an increase in response the result is an increase in speed, because he wasn't as fast as extremis before.

Before:
Issue 4 "where is he"

After:
Issue 5: "Maya I can see thorough sattelites now" Meaning he couldn't do that before.

Issue 7: Introduction
"Presently,we find Tony Stark now biologically integrated with his Iron Man armor, imbued with unprecidented powers and abilities That seems to denote a marked increase in,.. well powers and abilities.

Issue 8: introduction "enabling him to easily overwhelm villians who previously would have prsented a major challenge to his powers." again this seems to denote a major increase in power level. Their words, not mine.

Also issue 8: "I channel data,...DIRECTLY INTO MY HEAD!" (emphasis Stark's) He couldn't do that before.

All this plus enhanced healing.

I'd say this all shows an increase in base stats. I didn't find any reference to enhanced personal strength but with what Extremis did for the regular joe it would do for Stark. He ran the same program with his own enhancements on himself.

Again, feel free to check but these are statements made by the people who say what Iron Man can and can't do. All taken in the context in which they were meant.

[balok]

Nutcase65, since you remember it better, which of those things does he need the armor for? Or does he have all of those powers sans armor?

I know that extremis jumped up his sensory abilities and his data processing, but I wonder how much it amped up his physical prowess outside the armor - unless the eventual goal is that Tony no longer requires the armor - he can do it all with the extremis inside him... I'm not real sure he'd be "Iron Man" any longer should that come to pass. He'd be closer to the Sentry, albeit less powerful.

[Nutcase65]

not so much memory Balok, I had the issues in hand.

The brain access to information does not require armor assistance. He can access all the information and control his armor along with other devices sans armor.

As pointed out before it seems his un-armored body is performing at a little past peak human perfromance due to the original design of Extremis

Now this is just guessing, but I believe we will see other developments to his body due to extremis, but we'll just have to see.

[Alchemist-X]

The strength of Extremis I think will be sort of a flash in the pan. Sure it helped him take down that other Extremis user, but I think other than mental control of technology, we won't see IM in armor demonstrating strength or speed past his usual norms. Sure in Execute Program and Extremis he seemed stronger, but Just think about his portrayal in CW not just in his own books, but the others as well. The only real focus of Extremis is the control of tech and having the suit built into his bones throughout CW, there does not seem to be any apparent note to increased physical output.

[Nutcase65]

alchemistx said:

The strength of Extremis I think will be sort of a flash in the pan. Sure it helped him take down that other Extremis user, but I think other than mental control of technology, we won't see IM in armor demonstrating strength or speed past his usual norms. Sure in Execute Program and Extremis he seemed stronger, but Just think about his portrayal in CW not just in his own books, but the others as well. The only real focus of Extremis is the control of tech and having the suit built into his bones throughout CW, there does not seem to be any apparent note to increased physical output.

He's already stood toe to toe with Wolverine daring him to slice him and "watch me heal" while out of the armor.

Throughout CW we really didn't see much of him out of the armor. In issue 14 during the civil war tie in he punched through the bullet proof re-inforced glass of Stark tower while in civies. The same galss that Spider-man couldn't bust through with a full force, full body punch in CW issue 5. That looks like enhanced strength to me.

As far as pulling just from his own books, those are the writers that ultimately decide his direction.

As far as Extremis being a flash in the pan, it's hard wired into his brain. The same thing that gices him enhanced reflexes within his suit, gives it to him outside of his suit. It has adjusted his bodies reflexes to match that of his mind.

I'm not saying anybody is wrong because I'm right. I'm just showing what the writers have written.

Again, this isn't my opinion. These are the facts as laid out by the writers. You may disagree with THEM but they are the ones who decide what is going on with the character.

[Alchemist-X]

Well in armour he hasn't shown to be much stronger than he gets when he usually upgrades. (I Site the Graviton incident as a surprise attack, more brutal than IM usually is, not nessecarily stronger)

Out of armour I missed the connection between the two busted windows until you said it. But I do wonder if Marvel writers intended for him to be so strong or if that was a lack of coordination between writers as far as the glass being that strong. Stark out of armor demonstrating that level of strength far exceeds "a little stronger than normal humans" which seemed to be the level he's shown everwhere else. But since thats speculation I guess Tony has some serious strength without the suit.

As for flash in the pan, all I can say is Iron Man's upgrades always sort of fade in strength the longer it's been since they were introduced, I think Extremis will be the same, but like you said, ultimately we will have to wait and see where writers go.

[Nutcase65]

armor strength would have to be a technical improvement. Extremis only affected him, not the armor. It's just that some of the affects on him also affect armor performance. Not neccessarily strength.

As far as the long run with extremis, I am sure that there will be a heavy price for Stark to pay. You don't introduse a storyline like extremis without expecting to use it to mess with the character later on.