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Post by balok on Nov 30, 2006 16:00:50 GMT -5
Iron Man has villainous flunkies that he controls with nanobots and electric shocks. Doctor Doom has Doombot flunkies that he controls with remotes.
Iron Man thinks he has all the answers. Doctor Doom thinks he has all the answers.
Iron Man believes the ends justify the means. Doctor Doom believes the ends justify the means.
Iron Man is in bed with the government. Doctor Doom is a government.
Iron Man has a lot of money. Doctor Doom has a lot of money.
Iron Man has attacked heroes for attempting to thwart his plans. Doctor Doom has attacked heroes for attempting to thwart his plans.
Far as I can tell, the big difference is the color of the armor.
Anyone else?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Nov 30, 2006 20:18:57 GMT -5
Well, loathe that I am to be the one who says this, Tony isn't quite in the same league with Doom in the brains department, nor is he (yet) as ruthless... Oher than that, these days, no, no diffference... sigh...!!!
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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 30, 2006 21:29:38 GMT -5
There are lots of differences between Iron man and Dr. Doom.
Doom got along with Reed Richards in college but hates him now. Tony didn't know Reed in college but gets along with him now.
Doom has four letters. Stark has five.
Stark died and came back as a teenager. Doom died and came back as himself. (Well, there was Kristov and Stark is back to himself now, but hey)
See. There's a world of difference.
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Post by uberwolf on Dec 1, 2006 6:58:11 GMT -5
I always liked Iron Man. It's sad that Marvel is so cliche these days they had to go with Tony Stark is a RICH playboy, therefor his money makes him evil. It's bad enough they made him an alcoholic lush and took his company away from how many times now..? I think I liked him better when every fight that drained his armors life support would endager his damaged heart and nearly kill him, yet he fought on, risked his life more than anyone ever knew. He was a real hero, always one step away from death's door. Now, Marvel has made him a rich elitist dick. *sigh*
Doom? Doom was always a rich elitist dick, but in a cool way. Gotta love a guy that has more ego than 10 Hitlers. There's always been something to admire about the man. He could have been the greatest hero ever, but there's always that little failing that is his undoing. A little too much ego, selfishness, ruthlessness. It aways betrays him in the end.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Dec 1, 2006 8:42:38 GMT -5
Now, that´s for sure one interesting comparison.
Another difference would be: Doom (sometimes) uses magic (though personally I like it much better when he´s only trusting on technology). As far as I know Iron Man hasn´t used magic (ever?).
For me the next interesting question would be: Whom do you like better? Though he´s a villain, I´ll stay with the Doctor.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Dec 1, 2006 13:17:23 GMT -5
Iron Man has always been, by far, my favorite Marvel hero. Having said that, the consistent way in which Marvel keeps mischaracterizing him of late is tantamaount, in my book, to character assassination. Which makes me not care at all for this version of IM, for as long as Bendis, Quesada, et al, keep controlling his destiny.
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Post by Engage on Dec 1, 2006 15:47:40 GMT -5
Iron Man might think he has the right answers, but Dr. Doom knows he has all the right answers.
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Post by balok on Dec 1, 2006 16:41:28 GMT -5
The goal of this little tongue-in-cheek comparison was to wonder, in writing, at how Marvel decided that Iron Man should behave this way. He seems entirely out of character to me.
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Post by balok on Mar 2, 2007 17:35:02 GMT -5
Well, loathe that I am to be the one who says this, Tony isn't quite in the same league with Doom in the brains department, nor is he (yet) as ruthless... Oher than that, these days, no, no diffference... sigh...!!! Well, after Frontline #11, I think we can safely say that Iron Man now meets one of those qualifications...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 2, 2007 17:47:26 GMT -5
As the authority on Doom ( ) and quite affluent with Tony, I can basically list them, starting with "One is Evil, and one is not", ending with "They are actually radically different in almost every way". But really, saying "Iron Man has a lot of money" and "Doctor Doom has a lot of money" is just silly. Not to mention that it's undeniable that Cap has attacked heroes for trying to thwart his plans, Cap thinks he's always on the right side, Doom thinks he's always on the right side, Doom will stoop to make deals with criminals without checks, Cap will stoop to make deals with psychopaths without checks. And the "government" thing is ridiculous. Funny as a joke, pity it falls apart upon any sort of, y'know, examination. (And just fyi, Doom is my favourite marvel character.)
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Post by balok on Mar 2, 2007 20:32:22 GMT -5
The original post was a joke, as is explained in post #7 above.
But your assertion that "one is evil and one is not" does not bear close scrutiny, as is discussed elsewhere...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 13, 2007 21:08:46 GMT -5
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS THREAD!!!!!!!
HOW CAN YOU OVERLOOK THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE THAT COMPLETELY SETS THE TWO APART?
STARK IS OH SO PRETTY
Makes all the difference, you can be bad as long as you're pretty.
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Post by balok on Mar 13, 2007 21:22:14 GMT -5
Good point. Perhaps someone can drop by to give Tony a Two-Face style makeover!
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Post by Van Plexico on Mar 14, 2007 12:25:44 GMT -5
Two things.
One: Doom does what he does out of pure, self-centered selfish desire for power. Tony is doing it all, at least within his own mind, for altruistic reasons. Now, you may disagree with the reality of that, but I think in his mind he believes he's doing this to help the world, not for his own aggrandizement.
And two: While I don't love Tony's current direction, I am very much enjoying his vastly increased importance and prominence in the MU, for better or for worse. (Same with Ms. Marvel.)
I may not agree with the direction Tony and Carol are taking, but Marvel has definitely made them at least as interesting and compelling to read about as they have been in years and years.
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Post by balok on Mar 14, 2007 16:43:12 GMT -5
What you say is true of the Iron Man I remember, but I have more and more trouble these days finding that individual within the Iron Man that Marvel publishes now.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Mar 17, 2007 12:26:53 GMT -5
Doom does what he does out of pure, self-centered selfish desire for power. Tony is doing it all, at least within his own mind, for altruistic reasons. Now, you may disagree with the reality of that, but I think in his mind he believes he's doing this to help the world, not for his own aggrandizement. I’m not sure this contrast is quite so stark (no pun intended). Doom is often characterized as believing (or lying to himself?) that his ruling the world is in the world’s best interest—and as Emperor Doom showed, he might not be entirely incorrect.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 17, 2007 17:05:38 GMT -5
I may not agree with the direction Tony and Carol are taking, but Marvel has definitely made them at least as interesting and compelling to read about as they have been in years and years. This I have to agree with. If they were wanting increased attention and focus on these two characters, they succeeded. They have been getting national TV and newspaper coverage. That's something.
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Post by Alchemist-X on Apr 27, 2007 17:24:27 GMT -5
The problem was mainly Civil War (Millar not Bendis guys, Bendis has done a reasonable job of keeping Tony in character during the NA run. (I say reasonable because every writer brings a little bit of their own touch to every character, but overall, I felt Tony acted very IM ish in the NA run, and his few appearances during MA) Civil war and Civil War frontline are where his real character assasination took place (So I blame Jenkins and Millar)
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 27, 2007 17:44:08 GMT -5
I have to TOTALLY disagree with you.
In New Avengers 22, Iron Man basically stutters and cannot come up with a good reply when Luke Cage makes a completely off-base comparison to slavery a five year old could defeat.
In the main Civil War series, Iron Man is a sympathetic character doing the right thing. He has doubts, he tries to reassure Peter, ec. Jenkins, MS and Bendis do the character assassination. Compare the scene in Civil War 5 to the one in ASM 535.
In ASM, Iron Man snaps that the prison is for life, threatens Peter imprisonment there and basically ignores all his legal concerns.
In Civil War, he cautions Peter to calm down, says the prison is only temporary, doesn't want to fight and tries to use reason. When Peter breaks out, he WANTS to try and convince him to stand down but is overruled.
Civil War portrayed probably the most sympathetic Iron Man of the event besides Iron Man's own title and "Casualties of War".
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Post by balok on Apr 27, 2007 18:30:51 GMT -5
Civil War definitely portrayed Tony in a more sympathetic light than did most of the satellite books. JMS is fairly liberal in his political viewpoint (this is known from things he said about various aspects of B5), and so it's no surprise that he'd portray Iron Man negatively in ASM.
But some of the stuff that happened - it's pretty clear they needed to write some kind of primer explaining to each writer what the Act, the Initiative, et. al. were - because there were fundamental factual differences between these books.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 27, 2007 19:28:28 GMT -5
I agree with Doom on the differing levels of character portayal. But just as you can say people in other titles are biased against him, you can say people on this title are biase for him. There are very few completely neutral people in the world.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 27, 2007 23:53:51 GMT -5
I wonder where are they keeping that alternate IM, the Iron Maniac (wotta revoltin' name, by the way...)? Think he might be in 42...?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 28, 2007 10:26:56 GMT -5
I think Marvel are a very liberal company with few conservative writers. Some writers let their politics affect their writing. So I think often if the writers portray the pro-reggers in any sympathetic light at all, they're smart enough to get the balance right. I mean, let's do a little comparison if you will, taking what to my mind were the strongest opinionated titles:
-Frontline, Black Panther, early Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, New Avengers: DEFINITE Anti-Reg slant.
Iron Man, "Casualties of War", Civil War, Ms Marvel, last two Fantastic Four issues- Middle of the Road slant.
So that's 15 middle of the roads and roughly forty anti-reg slants. Easy to tell why people went anti. The most pro-reg satellite titles- Ms Marvel, Iron Man, McDuffie's FF, got 2-3 issues each to tell their story! Whereas ASM got 7, Frontline got 11 etc! Nothing deliberate obviously, just a point to make.
But really, I'd be interested to hear what titles are biased for him. The worst is maybe Iron Man 14 which gets deep inside Tony's head and has Cap's side pull off a low ambush! It also pulls out the Punisher being psycho as a plot point.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 28, 2007 14:34:03 GMT -5
I don't think I can disagree with you there. There was definitely an anti-reg bias. I wish it had been more balanced. It might have made a difference in how some of the long term readers viewed the storyline.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 28, 2007 15:11:10 GMT -5
Indeed NOTE: Oh... I have been besmitalised! But this is my least contraversial day in some time! clearly someone doesn't like my view on modern art
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 28, 2007 15:33:46 GMT -5
How can you be sure it's in reference to that. I've seen you much more argumenative than that. Maybe it's from some other post.
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Post by balok on Apr 28, 2007 16:05:54 GMT -5
I have wondered, given the anti-reg sentiment among Marvel's current creative elements, how long the act will last. That things will change is a given - this is comics, after all. But will they change in six months or in six years?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 28, 2007 16:12:09 GMT -5
Depends how long Millar stays
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Post by balok on Apr 28, 2007 17:55:11 GMT -5
Depends how long Millar stays Didn't you report that he was out in 2008? I know I heard that somewhere, but I don't recall where, or why he'd leave at the height of his success...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 28, 2007 18:06:04 GMT -5
He meant out as in out of the closet. That's all
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