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Post by Tana Nile on Aug 6, 2007 21:03:33 GMT -5
I picked up the latest Ms. Marvel, wanting to give the book a try again. I found that I like what is going on with her personal life. But why oh why does Reed keep saddling her with these grade C villains? A hero is always measured by the villains they fight, and in Ms. Marvel's case, she's apparently working her way through the C list (and in some cases, even worse). I mean, can we get something other than AIM, or MODOK, or the Doomsday Man? These guys were bad enough, but now he's dragging the Puppet Master back into play? Are you kidding me? The freaking Puppet Master.
If she's going to be "the best of the best", we have got to see better villains than this. It's the same issue I have with Wonder Woman. When you think of Superman's opponents, there's a lot of great ones: Luthor, Brainiac, Metallo, etc. Spider-Man's got the Goblin, Kingpin, Doc Ock. But who has WW got? Cheetah?! Circe? C'mon. It's just pathetic.
I'd really like to see Ms. Marvel face some better opponents. How would she fare against the Absorbing Man? Or the Abomination? There's gotta be some better foes for her out there.
OK, I'm done ranting now.
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Post by thew40 on Aug 6, 2007 22:10:13 GMT -5
Or how about someone new? A new villian in the Marvel Universe would be appreciated.
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Post by balok on Aug 7, 2007 12:37:59 GMT -5
MODOK doesn't have to be a Grade C villain. That depends on how he's written. Puppet Master can also be Grade B at least, depending on the writer AND on the story the writer chooses - he works best in elaborate conspiracy stories that build over several issues and involve a direct confrontation with him only at the very end. IMO.
Superman's opponents got nothing on Batman's opponents. Sure, very few of them have powers, but Bats has a dozen A-listers despite that. Maybe there's a lesson there for aspiring writers. I have always believed that overall, the quality of DC's opposition is better than the quality of Marvel's. (Yes, there are many exceptions - that's why I said overall.)
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Post by von Bek on Aug 7, 2007 12:53:19 GMT -5
I mean, can we get something other than AIM, or MODOK, or the Doomsday Man? Well, Doomsday Man I can understand. He is linked to her origin and can become Ms. Marvel Joker or Lex Luthor. These guys were bad enough, but now he's dragging the Puppet Master back into play? Are you kidding me? The freaking Puppet Master.  Wow, Tana if you were one of the 'new' fans I wouldn´t be so surprised to hear this from you! C´mon, the Puppet Master, Alicia´s father and one of the FF greatest foes... But who has WW got? Cheetah?! Circe? C'mon. It's just pathetic. Actually WW has some great opponents like Nubia or Silver Swan, that in the hands of a capable writer could become interesting, but instead we got she breaking Maxwell Lord´s neck or stupidity like that. |
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Post by Tana Nile on Aug 7, 2007 18:09:39 GMT -5
Balok, I agree regarding Batman's rogues. What they lack in actual power, they typically make up for in their unpredictability and sheer evil (particularly Joker). While I'm not saying Ms. Marvel needs to face powerhouses necessarily, I just don't think anyone she has faced so far has really represented a threat. Wow, Tana if you were one of the 'new' fans I wouldn´t be so surprised to hear this from you! C´mon, the Puppet Master, Alicia´s father and one of the FF greatest foes... VB, I have always considered Puppet Master to be the bottom rung of the FF villains - I'd even put the Red Ghost above him! His role as Alicia's father was never that impactful (to me). I have to say I am surprised by the response I got to my post. I didn't think anyone was really interested in this book. Personally I would like to support more books featuring female protagonists - providing of course, that they are worthy of that support. Right now, Ms. Marvel is on the fence for me. I'm curious how many of you are following this book? |
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 7, 2007 21:40:54 GMT -5
If I weren't on a Marvel boycott, this is a book I'd consider picking up. However, the writing has left me cold on the issues I've browsed. Reed's work seems to be totally hit-or-miss. Maybe more miss.
Some of the major plot points are direct outgrowths of "HoM," and are questionable at best and downright wrong at worst. I'd call the Simon interest "questionable," while Carol's hiring a publicist to enhance her image is totally opposed to the historical portrayal of heroism within the Marvel universe.
RSC
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Post by uberwolf on Aug 7, 2007 22:04:57 GMT -5
I read the first 10 issues. They were "eh" at best. Didn't see much point in seeing any more.
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Post by Shiryu on Aug 8, 2007 4:39:28 GMT -5
I'm not reading the title so mine is more of a general comment. I think it's ok for A heroes to fight C villains from time to time. For one thing in gives them (the villains) some nice screen time and it can result in interesting plots. All the battles between Cap and Batroc or Past Pot Pete come to mind...
Of course it shouldn't be C villains all the time, just between the major world-is-at-stake crisis.
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 8, 2007 11:41:49 GMT -5
I'm sure that Brian Reed would love to get his hands on Dr. Doom, Magneto, TRS, and so forth. How much easier would that make his job? I probably wouldn't blame him for the lack of A-list villains.
The fact that there are no A-list villains most likely means that editorial isn't making any A-list villains availble to use in Ms. Marvel. That shows how editorial views the title in the long run.
RSC
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Post by balok on Aug 9, 2007 9:27:17 GMT -5
Maybe, but would they likewise prohibit him from creating his own major villain, for this character?
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 9, 2007 11:41:07 GMT -5
A villain wouldn't be major if no one else's book acknowledged it as such. Even if Marvel wants to "push" a new villain like they are pushing Sentry, ultimately it will only be accepted if it resonates with the fans. That's not an easy task, as proven by the extremely small number of "A-grade" characters over the last 50 years.
RSC
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Post by sharkar on Aug 9, 2007 20:36:48 GMT -5
...the Puppet Master, Alicia´s father and one of the FF greatest foes... I love the Puppet Master! I will never forget "Terror in a Tiny Town." |
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Post by balok on Aug 10, 2007 9:50:24 GMT -5
A villain wouldn't be major if no one else's book acknowledged it as such. Even if Marvel wants to "push" a new villain like they are pushing Sentry, ultimately it will only be accepted if it resonates with the fans. That's not an easy task, as proven by the extremely small number of "A-grade" characters over the last 50 years. True enough, but he could set the villain on that path by establishing him (or her) as powerful, or ruthless, or deranged, or highly ambitions, or some combination of them. Even then, the idea might not catch on, but he could make the attempt. The key would, of course, be whether other writers went to their editor to ask permission to use the character, which is never a guarantee. But I think it would be a possible way around only getting C listers to use. |
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Post by uberwolf on Aug 10, 2007 10:20:50 GMT -5
C-listers need lovin' too! O' course a good writer can take even the lamest villain and turn them into something monstrous and enjoyable. Unlike BENIDS! who can take a great villain and make them laughable and retarded.
That's my BENDIS! bash for the day...
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Post by balok on Aug 10, 2007 17:49:56 GMT -5
If I exalt you will you bash him some more?  |
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Post by uberwolf on Aug 12, 2007 9:40:12 GMT -5
I dunno Balok, what more can be said? I mean really....
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Post by The Night Phantom on Aug 13, 2007 21:56:27 GMT -5
I tried Ms. Marvel for a while but ended up dropping it—the writing just didn’t grab me.
As for creating major villains: I actually felt that Warren Traveler had some potential. Maybe he still does.
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Post by overlord on Sept 15, 2007 17:06:41 GMT -5
MODOK doesn't have to be a Grade C villain. That depends on how he's written. Puppet Master can also be Grade B at least, depending on the writer AND on the story the writer chooses - he works best in elaborate conspiracy stories that build over several issues and involve a direct confrontation with him only at the very end. IMO. Superman's opponents got nothing on Batman's opponents. Sure, very few of them have powers, but Bats has a dozen A-listers despite that. Maybe there's a lesson there for aspiring writers. I have always believed that overall, the quality of DC's opposition is better than the quality of Marvel's. (Yes, there are many exceptions - that's why I said overall.) I would disagree DC often saddles its heroes with villains that are fighting heroes way out of their league. Outside of Batman's rogues gallery, the pickings get real slim. Look at Prankster with Superman, Captain Boomerang I with Flash, etc. Marvel does that way less then DC. Mr. Hyde starting out as a Thor villain, but the writers realized Thor could beat him easily, so he became a Cap/DD villain. If DC had more sense, they would have made captain Boomerang a Green Arrow villain after a few issues. But you do bring up a good point, there are no bad characters, only bad writers. If Gail Simone can make Cat man interesting, someone can do something with Puppet Master. |
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Wow, Tana if you were one of the 'new' fans I wouldn´t be so surprised to hear this from you! C´mon, the Puppet Master, Alicia´s father and one of the FF greatest foes... 
