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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 12:31:30 GMT -5
appearantly they like to throw this kinda thing at me every 100 issues. Exactly 100 issues after me first truly what th,... moment in the Avengers series, here I have another.
This issue Cap decides, all of the sudden, that they need to pare the active membership down to 6.
At the beginning of the meeting a whole bunch of folks show up out of nowhere claiming they have been forced to show up
Moon Knight
Ice Man
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Angel
Yellowjacket
Tigra
Dazzler
Black Panther
Hercules
Then several of them start fighting each other
huh?
Then it turns out Moondragon is doing all of this because it's her job to straighten out the Avengers rank and file
huh?
So she freezes the Avengers and sends Hawkeye, Black Widow, Dazzler and Blsck Panther out the door.
Then the Avengers get free and fight her,... she fights back,... they start winning,.. she disappears claiming that she has more important things to do,... blah blah blah.
huh?
So , Scarlet Witch, Vision and Beast decide they are better served elsewhere, Wonder man goes off with his new buddy Hercules to make new friends in the movie buisiness. Jocasta the equivalent of Marvin the Paranoid Android gets depressed and heads off to find true love.
We're left with Cap, Iron Man, Yellowjacket, Wasp, Thor and Tigra.
Whatever
This was so haphazard and random I can only give it:
1 Loony out of 10
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 9, 2007 15:44:47 GMT -5
Jocasta the equivalent of Marvin the Paranoid Android gets depressed and heads off to find true love. Brilliant observation, and especially appreciated by another Hitchhiker fan. You're right, this was a pretty random issue of nonsense. Roster changes have not always been the smoothest. Refresh our memories now -- was this roster change brought on by a change in writers? Shooter had ended his second run just a little bit before this, right? But I don't think Stern had come on board yet. Is this Michelinie? |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 16:22:22 GMT -5
yes, but Shooter came back for this one appearance.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 9, 2007 16:46:05 GMT -5
So Shooter came back just to jack with the membership? Wow! Usually when people mess with the membership it's because they want to use certain characters in later stories -- but to fly in and mess it all up and then leave ... that's remarkable. I guess he was probably hired in order to bring about that particular membership.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 9, 2007 16:46:43 GMT -5
Oh no -- now I get it, this was when Tigra joined, so Shooter did a couple of issues after this. Ok -- not as brazen as I thought. My bad.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 17:18:19 GMT -5
Is it covered in the later issues when she gets a tail? Cuz she doesn't have one here.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 9, 2007 17:32:38 GMT -5
Another Tigra related question: she never used to have tufts of hair on her arms & legs until that unfortunate Avengers United cartoon appeared on tv; there, she was depicted with that look for the 1st time, but pretty soon the comics picked up on that look & started to depict her like that as well.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 9, 2007 17:45:43 GMT -5
maybe she just let herself go
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 15, 2007 6:36:07 GMT -5
It would be pretty funny if Tigra shaved her legs and pits.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 15, 2007 14:34:24 GMT -5
Is it covered in the later issues when she gets a tail? Cuz she doesn't have one here. #15. |
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 16, 2007 12:21:56 GMT -5
Yes, Phantom, I recall that storyline -- she was somehow under the influence of some cat-people (time has clouded my memory) and they made her more catlike.
I may be in the minority, but I really hated WCA. Not only were we subjected to the pain that is Al Milgrom's art (sorry Shiryu!!), but the stories were lame as well.
Is it me, or do comics stories in the MU just not work as well when they are not set in New York City?
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 16, 2007 13:08:12 GMT -5
Yes, Phantom, I recall that storyline -- she was somehow under the influence of some cat-people (time has clouded my memory) and they made her more catlike. I may be in the minority, but I really hated WCA. Not only were we subjected to the pain that is Al Milgrom's art (sorry Shiryu!!), but the stories were lame as well. Is it me, or do comics stories in the MU just not work as well when they are not set in New York City? If you are in the minority, at least know that you are one of two. I gave away all my copies of the WCA with Englehart and Milgrom. Had either the art or stories been better I wouldn't have parted with them (which is why I keep the Roger Stern/Milgrom Avengers issues), but they were just not a pairing I liked. I have liked Englehart on other books before and after, but Milgrom's art has never worked for me. I understand he was often the go to guy when a book was late, but that doesn't excuse his sloppiness. I mean anyone can draw a book BADLY in a week... And some books work on the West Coast. I just re-read all the Champions in TPB and it ain't half bad... |
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 16, 2007 13:34:01 GMT -5
Yes, Phantom, I recall that storyline -- she was somehow under the influence of some cat-people (time has clouded my memory) and they made her more catlike. I may be in the minority, but I really hated WCA. Not only were we subjected to the pain that is Al Milgrom's art (sorry Shiryu!!), but the stories were lame as well. Is it me, or do comics stories in the MU just not work as well when they are not set in New York City? Now, dlw66, don't go jinxing the Initiative... Superhero stories must work in every state of the union & Thor stories must work in Oklahoma... |
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 16, 2007 14:15:31 GMT -5
And some books work on the West Coast. I just re-read all the Champions in TPB and it ain't half bad... I, too, have recently read Vol. I (I owned those stories individually back in the 70's) of The Champions and have purchased Vol. II -- it's jammed with lots of Champions crossovers, too! And yes, that team seemed to work on the West Coast. Didn't DD and the Widow operate out of San Francisco for a time?? |
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Post by von Bek on Apr 16, 2007 14:37:38 GMT -5
Didn't DD and the Widow operate out of San Francisco for a time?? yes they did, Spiderwoman too IIRC. |
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Post by Tana Nile on Apr 16, 2007 15:02:33 GMT -5
Yes, Phantom, I recall that storyline -- she was somehow under the influence of some cat-people (time has clouded my memory) and they made her more catlike. I may be in the minority, but I really hated WCA. Not only were we subjected to the pain that is Al Milgrom's art (sorry Shiryu!!), but the stories were lame as well. Is it me, or do comics stories in the MU just not work as well when they are not set in New York City? I really wanted WCA to succeed, since Avengers was my favorite book, and I was a native Californian. But I gave up on the series relatively early, and came back around the time of Byrne's run. I went back a few months ago and re-read those early issues, and I can say that, in my opinion, Englehart's writing really seemed to take a dive here. Like DLW, I've never liked MIigrom's art, so dropping this book was a no brainer at the time. However, there's no reason west-coast based books shouldn't succeed. There's just as many story opportunities inherent in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles as there are in New York. Now that creators are spread out all over the globe (and not all living in New York), I would hope we'll see some more variety in locations. That might be the one good thing to come out of this Initiative malarkey - the decentralization of super-heroes. |
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Post by von Bek on Apr 16, 2007 15:17:29 GMT -5
What do you guys (and girl) think of the WCA mini series (4 issues) that was released before the ongoing? The one Roger Stern wrote? Had Stern stayed we would probably've had the Shroud as an Avengers instead of Doctor Pym.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 16, 2007 16:25:02 GMT -5
Those were some of the first comics I ever had. I really enjoyed them. They might not be the most sophisticated to the comic conniseur but they were fine by me.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 17, 2007 1:12:30 GMT -5
I would love to see Marvel giving the Avengers West Coast another go...
I always thought Hawkeye deserved another chance to show the world & the Avengers from NYC that his team could be as succesful & as deserving of the name as their East Coast counterparts...
I would enjoy seeing him telling Cap "I told you so"...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 17, 2007 5:25:00 GMT -5
I just always hated that, Avengers West Coast thing. They will always be the West Coast Avengers for me.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 17, 2007 14:35:37 GMT -5
I just always hated that, Avengers West Coast thing. They will always be the West Coast Avengers for me. Was it just a gut feeling, Nutcase? Or do you have more specific reasons for your dislike...? I don't mean I particularly liked the execution of the idea, although I did enjoy some arcs of their run, but I love the concept of it: having another Avengers team on the opposite coast, especially one lead by Hawkeye, who gats the chance to lead an Avengers team with his own leading style, without competing with Cap or being under his shadow... |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 17, 2007 14:44:58 GMT -5
I just always hated that, Avengers West Coast thing. They will always be the West Coast Avengers for me. Was it just a gut feeling, Nutcase? Or do you have more specific reasons for your dislike...? I don't mean I particularly liked the execution of the idea, although I did enjoy some arcs of their run, but I love the concept of it: having another Avengers team on the opposite coast, especially one lead by Hawkeye, who gats the chance to lead an Avengers team with his own leading style, without competing with Cap or being under his shadow... Nothing any more sophisticated than I didn't like the name. I really enjoyed the story. Iron Man casting the vote that put the West Coast out of buisiness, then when Cap is congratulating him on making the right decision, he quit. I liked it a lot. Just never like the name change. Blame it on old fogyism |
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Post by perceval on Apr 21, 2007 14:39:08 GMT -5
Well, we saw what this issue was really about, starting with the next one. This was the classic case of a title that had started stagnating (with several months of guest writers on top of it). New writer comes aboard (or old writer returning, in this case), has a big storyline planned, and shakes things up in the first issue to get everyone's attention.
And, say what you will about what happend, it got people interested in the book, again. The storyline continued into Stern's long run, and we're still seeing the fallout from it. On the one hand, one can say it ruined Hank Pym. On the other hand, it revived the character. Hank had, by that point, often found himself in Character Limbo, considered too bland and boring by the readership, especially compared to his Better Half. By this point, we'd even just had a few years of Jan being a regular in the series without Hank, with the readership not caring.
After what happened, people cared about Hank, for the first time in many years, whether they loved him or hated him. He hasn't been a nonentity, since.
Of course, leave it to the comics industry to take something that works in one instance and overdo it. The success of Hank's storyline led writers to decide to make everybody headcases. Well, not really everybody, but far more than enough.
As for what Byrne did to Tigra in WCA, Byrne screwed up a lot of characters during his brief run. Look at the Vision and Scarlet Witch. They never recovered from what Byrne did to them.
And Byrne had done such a great Fantastic Four, too...
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Post by ultron69 on Jun 13, 2009 13:08:35 GMT -5
#211 was the start of a very nice run by Shooter, IMO. The book had been a bit stagnant for the previous 5 issues, at least. It did seem to have a lot of fill-ins. On the first page of #211, when Cap says that they need to have a roster of six, I'm thinking "WTF?" that seemed so random and arbitrary, but it makes sense if Moondragon was controlling him. Shooter must have either really loved or really hated Moondragon.
Speaking of which, I nominate, as one of the greatest moments in Avengers history, the end of #220, when Moondragon's mental powers are temporarily drained, and she says that she will defend herself with her martial arts skills. Then the Wasp knocks her out...with one punch. Beautiful!! :-) :-)
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Post by scottharris on Jun 13, 2009 14:32:45 GMT -5
#211 was the start of a very nice run by Shooter, IMO. The book had been a bit stagnant for the previous 5 issues, at least. It did seem to have a lot of fill-ins. On the first page of #211, when Cap says that they need to have a roster of six, I'm thinking "WTF?" that seemed so random and arbitrary, but it makes sense if Moondragon was controlling him. Shooter must have either really loved or really hated Moondragon. Speaking of which, I nominate, as one of the greatest moments in Avengers history, the end of #220, when Moondragon's mental powers are temporarily drained, and she says that she will defend herself with her martial arts skills. Then the Wasp knocks her out...with one punch. Beautiful!! :-) :-) I was going to mention the Moondragon thing. Later in this era run, probably during this Moondragon storyline in 219-200, the Avengers speculate that Moondragon not only set up that roster change, but that she may have manipulated them into choosing who they did for the roster. It's still a bit of a deus ex machina, but they basically said that it was completely random and arbitrary because Moondragon mind-controlled the whole thing. It's obvious that Shooter just wanted to reset the lineup for his Tigra and Yellowjacket storylines, but if you're going to radically remake the team with no warning or reason, this explanation makes about as much sense as you could hope for. |
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