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Post by humanbelly on Jan 13, 2011 6:21:57 GMT -5
I agree that it seems highly unlikely that supervillains would ban together as easily as they often do since they always have their own motives and they don't seem likely to jive together unless they are out for financial gain, world domination, or vengence. The simple fact that they are all evil doesn't seem to cut it. Then again, that's the biggest problem I have with many of the groups, the names. The Masters of Evil, The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, The Circus of Crime, The Institute of Evil (From Squadron Supreme), The Sinister Six, The Frightful Four. Generally speaking, bad people don't see themselves as bad. They see their evil actions as justified or righteous. In comics by choosing these sinister, evil titles for themselves they make it clear that they are one dimensional bad guys out to simply do bad stuff. It greatly reduces their depth. It does, however make it easier to identify the bad guys when they tell us straight out "We're bad." Wouldn't it be nice if, in real life the Ku Klux Klan called themselves The Klan of Evil, Hitler had controlled the Hatred party instead of the Nazis or the Westboro Baptist Church (The ones that march and protest at the funerals of soldiers) called themselves the Church of the Evil Bastards? Ha! Yes, SW-- this has nagged at me for about a zillion years, this exact point! Particularly with the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants"-- even as a kid I recognized that Magneto did not consider his own goals of mutant world domination as "Evil", but as the natural course of evolution. Nowadays, as the "Brotherhood of Mutants" it just has the sexist issue to overcome. . . Thunderbolts, of course, provided a terrific exploration of this issue over many years. Where the outward behaviour (whatever its initial motivation) ultimately effects the person within. The MoE simply couldn't live up to their former standards of "Evil", as it were. HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jan 13, 2011 13:27:45 GMT -5
I think I'm of the mind a "team of villains" just may not be feasible due to conflicting wants and plans. It'd be one thing if you had a group of villains who are just wanting to rob banks, it's another when you have two or three villains all with plans of world domination teaming up. How do you split it up? Does one just want Liechtenstein and is cool with the others taking everything else?
I'd find that villains would have a tougher time finding a common goal. You know, "There came a day unlike any other when Earth's Evilest Villains found themselves united in a common goal: sole domination that has eluded them in the past" just doesn't have the same zing as heroes brought together.
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Post by sharkar on Jan 23, 2011 16:51:15 GMT -5
Ha! Yes, SW-- this has nagged at me for about a zillion years, this exact point! Particularly with the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants"-- even as a kid I recognized that Magneto did not consider his own goals of mutant world domination as "Evil", but as the natural course of evolution. Funny you should single out the BoEM, HB, because here at least Stan got it right--in those early X-Men stories, Magneto, the Toad and Mastermind themselves never refer to the group as the BoEM, or even as "evil mutants." (At most Wanda and Pietro--the group's outsiders--would occasionally refer to the others as "evil"; one such example can be found in their Strange Tales appearance). Surprisingly, it was Roy Thomas--who should have known better--who years later had Magneto all of a sudden calling his own group "the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants." This started when Magneto appeared in the Avengers comic, beginning in Avengers #47 and throughout that 1968 Avengers-X-Men crossover arc.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 9, 2011 15:43:32 GMT -5
Ha! Yes, SW-- this has nagged at me for about a zillion years, this exact point! Particularly with the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants"-- even as a kid I recognized that Magneto did not consider his own goals of mutant world domination as "Evil", but as the natural course of evolution. Funny you should single out the BoEM, HB, because here at least Stan got it right--in those early X-Men stories, Magneto, the Toad and Mastermind themselves never refer to the group as the BoEM, or even as "evil mutants." (At most Wanda and Pietro--the group's outsiders--would occasionally refer to the others as "evil"; one such example can be found in their Strange Tales appearance). Surprisingly, it was Roy Thomas--who should have known better--who years later had Magneto all of a sudden calling his own group "the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants." This started when Magneto appeared in the Avengers comic, beginning in Avengers #47 and throughout that 1968 Avengers-X-Men crossover arc. Yeah, I've been re-reading the original X-Men (I'm up to #13) and I noticed that they weren't called the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. I always wondered why they'd call themselves evil, or at least once I turned around 12 I started wondering things like that.
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Post by wundagoreborn on Mar 8, 2013 13:51:49 GMT -5
My dream team would be a theme team:
Wasp (chair) She-Hulk Sersi Scarlet Witch Captain Marvel (Monica) Black Widow
Only need 6 members, because this group has everything: Brains, brawn, brass, legal prowess, speed, strategy, illusion, real hex & magic, cosmic power. Cap, Thor and Iron Man can guest often, but their comings and goings would only highlight how these ladies don't need them.
And the resulting book would have, well, let's just say some really nice panels.
[Full disclosure - my LCS is running a March Madness bracket contest about the greatest female comic character right now, so maybe I've got chicks on the brain.]
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 9, 2013 6:48:22 GMT -5
My dream team would be a theme team: Wasp (chair) She-Hulk Sersi Scarlet Witch Captain Marvel (Monica) Black Widow Only need 6 members, because this group has everything: Brains, brawn, brass, legal prowess, speed, strategy, illusion, real hex & magic, cosmic power. Cap, Thor and Iron Man can guest often, but their comings and goings would only highlight how these ladies don't need them. And the resulting book would have, well, let's just say some really nice panels. [Full disclosure - my LCS is running a March Madness bracket contest about the greatest female comic character right now, so maybe I've got chicks on the brain.] Heck, I'd still bring in a 7th for you. Either a) Valkyrie-- as you kind of want to have your token mythological god-type on the team. And boy, I just do not see her and Sersi hitting it off well at all. Many ugly thought balloons: "frivolous, empty-headed cow", "thick-muscled, uni-browed old battleaxe"-- that sort of pleasantness. Or, b) Jocasta, if we ever get her back to some kind of normal existence (for her). There would still be problems for her with Jan and probably with Wanda-- and possibly Sersi, as well (the most likely one to dismiss her as less-than-alive). And again, you kind of want to have the requisite "what is it to be human?"-seeker on the team. Y'know, as much as I've posted at length on this thread. . . I don't see anywhere that I actually came up with my own team. So, let's see: This is entirely on first-impulse whim-- mostly just favorite characters as opposed to thinking much about team dynamics. Wasp (probable leader) Hawkeye (possible leader, and we'd just have to forget that his & Jan's stupid tryst ever happened.) Vision Captain Monica Marvel She-Hulk Quasar Dr. Strange (getting him on the team was one of the few developments of the Bendis era that I heartily endorsed) So, what have I dealt myself here, hmm? Ah! The first thing I'm liking is the potential for the LONG overdue romance between Monica and Wendell, which I'm sure I've touted 'round here before. We've got a return to the Hawkeye/She-Hulk antago-fest (much like Jack Benny & Fred Allen). I REALLY like the potential for a surprising- but almost inevitable- friendship between Vision and Stephen. . . the most magical guy on the planet and the most technological one (literally), and yet some surprisingly similarities in personal tone and demeanor-- a shared sense of "otherness", right? We have four characters who have led the team, and one who was the father-figure of a recent one. I like having three strong women covering a broad range of powers-- and that Hawkeye is less super-powered than any of them. This team may be lacking in internal volatility, though. Sadly, something might have to be imposed or created to give them sustainable narrative interest. Ugh. I hate seeing that happen to characters I like. *whew* That was a bit of an exercise! HB
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Post by Doctor Bong Crosby on Mar 9, 2013 14:17:57 GMT -5
My dream team would be a theme team: Wasp (chair) She-Hulk Sersi Scarlet Witch Captain Marvel (Monica) Black Widow Only need 6 members, because this group has everything: Brains, brawn, brass, legal prowess, speed, strategy, illusion, real hex & magic, cosmic power. Cap, Thor and Iron Man can guest often, but their comings and goings would only highlight how these ladies don't need them. And the resulting book would have, well, let's just say some really nice panels. [Full disclosure - my LCS is running a March Madness bracket contest about the greatest female comic character right now, so maybe I've got chicks on the brain.] Heck, I'd still bring in a 7th for you. Either a) Valkyrie-- as you kind of want to have your token mythological god-type on the team. And boy, I just do not see her and Sersi hitting it off well at all. Many ugly thought balloons: "frivolous, empty-headed cow", "thick-muscled, uni-browed old battleaxe"-- that sort of pleasantness. Or, b) Jocasta, if we ever get her back to some kind of normal existence (for her). There would still be problems for her with Jan and probably with Wanda-- and possibly Sersi, as well (the most likely one to dismiss her as less-than-alive). And again, you kind of want to have the requisite "what is it to be human?"-seeker on the team. Y'know, as much as I've posted at length on this thread. . . I don't see anywhere that I actually came up with my own team. So, let's see: This is entirely on first-impulse whim-- mostly just favorite characters as opposed to thinking much about team dynamics. Wasp (probable leader) Hawkeye (possible leader, and we'd just have to forget that his & Jan's stupid tryst ever happened.) Vision Captain Monica Marvel She-Hulk Quasar Dr. Strange (getting him on the team was one of the few developments of the Bendis era that I heartily endorsed) So, what have I dealt myself here, hmm? Ah! The first thing I'm liking is the potential for the LONG overdue romance between Monica and Wendell, which I'm sure I've touted 'round here before. We've got a return to the Hawkeye/She-Hulk antago-fest (much like Jack Benny & Fred Allen). I REALLY like the potential for a surprising- but almost inevitable- friendship between Vision and Stephen. . . the most magical guy on the planet and the most technological one (literally), and yet some surprisingly similarities in personal tone and demeanor-- a shared sense of "otherness", right? We have four characters who have led the team, and one who was the father-figure of a recent one. I like having three strong women covering a broad range of powers-- and that Hawkeye is less super-powered than any of them. This team may be lacking in internal volatility, though. Sadly, something might have to be imposed or created to give them sustainable narrative interest. Ugh. I hate seeing that happen to characters I like. *whew* That was a bit of an exercise! HB How about: Captain America, Captain Marvel (Carole Danvers), Jack Frost, Iron Man, Squirrel Girl, Thor, Firebird and an Enchantress trying to redeem herself...? Orrrrr... how 'bout: Hawkeye, Mockingbird, the Wasp, Hank Pym, Iron Man, Moondragon, Quicksilver and Crystal...? How's that for the volatility factor...? Oh the possibilities...! Oh the drama...! ;D
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Post by wundagoreborn on Mar 10, 2013 10:43:59 GMT -5
Orrrrr... how 'bout: Hawkeye, Mockingbird, the Wasp, Hank Pym, Iron Man, Moondragon, Quicksilver and Crystal...? That would be quite the soap opera! As the Avengers Turn? Days of our Avengers? The Avenging Light?
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 10, 2013 21:20:27 GMT -5
Orrrrr... how 'bout: Hawkeye, Mockingbird, the Wasp, Hank Pym, Iron Man, Moondragon, Quicksilver and Crystal...? That would be quite the soap opera! As the Avengers Turn? Days of our Avengers? The Avenging Light? Y'know "The Avenging Light" is a rather neat turn of phrase. If Dazzler ever became an Avenger, and then went rogue or vigilante, this would be a terrific title for that arc. . . HB
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Post by Marvel Boy on Mar 11, 2013 22:00:33 GMT -5
Cap (leader) Wasp (Hank Pym) Black Knight Songbird Wonder Man Scarlet Witch Ms. Marvel/Warbird/Captain Marvel
Reserves: Thor Black Panther
First grouping that comes to mind, no idea at the moment over this team's dynamics, just mixture of favorite characters and ones that I'd like to read more of.
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Post by ultron69 on Mar 25, 2013 12:20:39 GMT -5
Cap (Leader) Wasp She-Hulk Black Panther Beast Hercules Vision
reserves: Thor Iron Man Scarlet Witch Hank Pym Wonder Man
This is off the top of my head, as most things are.
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Post by starfoxxx on Apr 20, 2014 13:22:56 GMT -5
I just picked up Avengers #347 in a 25-cent bin. I stopped my 10 year collecting run at #343, but I'm slowly filling in any Avengers comics I didn't buy---as long as they're dirt cheap. I often think I'm fortunate I quit the book when I did, as the mid-90s era is the worst and unreadable, IMHO. But I was pleasantly surprised with both the story and art of #347, and this is definitely the best issue of the Galactic Storm multi-part crossover I have encountered so far. I know I have Galactic Storm issues from Wonder Man, Quasar, and WCA, but they were pretty bad and had crappy art, again, IMO.
The coloring and deep inks of those mid-90s Avengers comics (and Marvel and DC comics in general at the time) were off-putting for me. And the covers for Avengers #340-402 were ugly---#347's cover isn't bad, IMO, as it's black and white
But I'm writing here to comment on the great line-up in this issue: one of the most powerful line-ups up to the point (1992), and possibly ever (the Busiek/Perez reboot complete team and Avengers/JLA teams are impossible to beat, of course) Check out this team from #347-
Cap Iron Man Thor Clint as Goliath Vision Scarlet Witch Hercules Black Knight Wonder Man Captain Marvel II Starfox Quasar Sersi Crystal Living Lightning
You've got some serious muscle with Thor, Simon, Hercules, and Clint as Goliath. Two Etenals in Starfox and Sersi, and an Inhuman with Crystal (I have to say everytime, I hate her as an Avenger) The magic of Wanda and Black Knight's sword. The tech of Iron Man, the very powerful Vision and Monica, the Nega-Bands of Quasar, okay, Living Lightning is pretty lame, but he can fly and he's made of electricity, so that's pretty cool..... oh yeah, and Captain America leads the team.
Wow.
I realize this Galactic Storm team is an "ultimate alliance", such as #100's super/complete team. That team had the lesser super-powered Black Panther, Wasp, Ant-man, Swordsman, and Clint as Hawkeye......but they also had Quicksilver (very useful power) and the Hulk.
I have to admit I poop on the 90s a lot around here, but this one was pretty good. This line-up could NEVER be a personal favorite of mine, of course, without the Beast as a member.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 20, 2014 14:50:28 GMT -5
But I'm writing here to comment on the great line-up in this issue: one of the most powerful line-ups up to the point (1992), and possibly ever (the Busiek/Perez reboot complete team and Avengers/JLA teams are impossible to beat, of course) Check out this team from #347- Cap Iron Man Thor Clint as Goliath Vision Scarlet Witch Hercules Black Knight Wonder Man Captain Marvel II Starfox Quasar Sersi Crystal Living Lightning That's indeed an extremely powerful line-up. Was there any catch though? For example I seem to remember Thor was the less powerful/skilled Eric Masterson here.
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Post by starfoxxx on Apr 21, 2014 14:49:38 GMT -5
Yes, Shiryu, that is the Eric Masterson THOR, not the real deal.....
maybe you can help me with what happened with the Eric Masterson Thor taking over, and then who/what was Thunderstrike? I missed that stuff, I had just stopped buying comics around that time.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 21, 2014 17:40:13 GMT -5
maybe you can help me with what happened with the Eric Masterson Thor taking over, and then who/what was Thunderstrike? I missed that stuff, I had just stopped buying comics around that time. IIRC, Masterson was a civilian Thor had befriended during his time as Sigurd Jarlson, when his secret identity consisted of him tying his hair in a ponytail and working as a carpenter on construction sites. Masterson was eventually wounded and had to be merged with Thor to save his life. Some time later, it looked like Thor had killed Loki, so he was banished forever, and Masterson became the new Thor to protect the Earth in the original's place. It should be in this guise that he took part in Galactic Storm, showing a lot of raw power, but lacking experience and confidence. Eventually, Loki was revealed to be alive and the original Thor was brought back, but Masterson kept his powers and decided to carry on as crimefighter. To distinguish himself from Thor, he changed his costume and took the name Thunderstrike. Sadly for him, it didn't last long as he was killed not too long afterwards.
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Apr 21, 2014 21:14:42 GMT -5
Hawkeye Vision Black Panther Cap Goliath Wasp Hercules
Shellhead and Thor in reserve…and The Black Knight.
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Post by starfoxxx on Apr 22, 2014 16:00:48 GMT -5
maybe you can help me with what happened with the Eric Masterson Thor taking over, and then who/what was Thunderstrike? I missed that stuff, I had just stopped buying comics around that time. IIRC, Masterson was a civilian Thor had befriended during his time as Sigurd Jarlson, when his secret identity consisted of him tying his hair in a ponytail and working as a carpenter on construction sites. Masterson was eventually wounded and had to be merged with Thor to save his life. Some time later, it looked like Thor had killed Loki, so he was banished forever, and Masterson became the new Thor to protect the Earth in the original's place. It should be in this guise that he took part in Galactic Storm, showing a lot of raw power, but lacking experience and confidence. Eventually, Loki was revealed to be alive and the original Thor was brought back, but Masterson kept his powers and decided to carry on as crimefighter. To distinguish himself from Thor, he changed his costume and took the name Thunderstrike. Sadly for him, it didn't last long as he was killed not too long afterwards. Thanks Shiryu, great explanation! One more question though......they both had hammer's. I assume Thor had Mjolnir......what about Thunderstrike? ?
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 22, 2014 18:44:17 GMT -5
Thanks Shiryu, great explanation! One more question though......they both had hammer's. I assume Thor had Mjolnir......what about Thunderstrike? ? Yes, and actually Thunderstrike was both the name of the mace and of the character. It was created by the dwarves and gifted to Eric by Odin much like he gave Stormbreaker to Beta Ray Bill in the Simonson run. Unlike BRB though, I seem to remember it was stated that the mace didn't make Eric quite as strong as Thor, possibly because of his weaker human nature compared to Bill, who had been modified by the Korbinite race to be very strong of his own account.
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comaboy
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 34
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Post by comaboy on Jun 5, 2017 9:01:45 GMT -5
Cap, Iron Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Hank and Jan and Ms. Marvel. I'd throw in Silverclaw as a Reservist.
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