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Post by bobc on Jul 31, 2006 10:40:29 GMT -5
Speaking of the Fantastic Four, The Essential FF #5 is now out, and it is soooooo good. These issues really were the golden era of the FF with awesome, top-of-his-game Jack Kirby art, and later the introduction of john Buscema. The characterization of everyone involved is top notch as well. Battles every issue, creative use of powers, humor, tons of guest stars--it is well worth the price. The 100th issue is included, with battle galore! Most of this stuff came out before even I was old enough to read comics--but it all holds up really well.
PLUS the introduction of one of my favorite villains is included--Annihilius (I think I've spelled that name wrong but it's the thought that counts).
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Jul 31, 2006 15:06:36 GMT -5
Good times, good times.
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 31, 2006 16:00:24 GMT -5
I have the Vol. 3 and 4 FF Essentials, and barring purchase of the FF DVD-ROM during this coming Sunday's venture to Wizardworld Chicago, Vol. 5 will be on my shopping list! I absolutely love the two volumes I presently own, and have really enjoyed the Spidey volumes I have as well.
Sorry to all about any misinformation I gave about the Death in the Family story (isn't that the same title DC used for the Jason Todd story??) -- I have the book in the comic room, but haven't read it yet.
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Post by Shiryu on Aug 1, 2006 5:23:22 GMT -5
Yes, it's the same title (DC's is "A death in the family" to be precise). Wonder which one came first.
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 1, 2006 8:32:26 GMT -5
Oh, DC's use of the title "Death..." preceded this FF story by almost 20 years!
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Post by ultron69 on May 12, 2009 13:54:36 GMT -5
Cap Beast Black Panther Wasp She-Hulk Vision Scarlet Witch
reserves: Thor Wonder Man
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Draganta
Force Works-er
AVENGERS ASSEMBLE...TO KICK STARKS SKIDPLATE!
Posts: 18
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Post by Draganta on Aug 9, 2009 4:32:56 GMT -5
Core Team:
Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Giant man, Wasp, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch
Reserve: Black Panther, Vison
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 19, 2009 16:02:37 GMT -5
Found this website while doing some research for the Bronze Age Babies blog -- thought you'd like to see the various team portraits within. I can't make out the artists (where noted). Clearly the inker is Josef Rubenstein, but I can't tell the penciller. On the middle one (IIRC), the piece is credited to George Perez. Anyway, really neat images!! www.dragonhero.com/marvel/avengers.html
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comaboy
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 34
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Post by comaboy on Nov 13, 2009 9:29:44 GMT -5
Iron Man Captain America Vision Scarlet Witch Wasp Giant Man Warbird Sliverclaw Justice You can probably tell what era of Avengers I really liked . . . I'd also throw in Thor, Black Panther and Wonderman as needed.
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jan 20, 2010 18:33:25 GMT -5
I can't believe I had passed this by till now. Alright, my "dream team"
Captain America (leader) Hawkeye Thor Ms. Marvel She-Hulk Wasp Quasar
Reserves: Iron Man & Mockingbird, with Pym being all scientist/around like he was for some of the West Coast run.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 21, 2010 5:54:13 GMT -5
I like this team, KidCage. It's a seriously competent squad of heroes that are well-proven in the team environment. Couple of points:
1) Like the fact that you've included 3 solid female members. 2) Kind of a feast-or-famine factor with the power levels, though. She-Hulk, Quasar, and Thor are all Heavy-Duty to Cosmic in power range. Cap, Hawkeye and Wasp are all Unpowered (or Low Powered). Ms. Marvel may be mid-range-- although I believe she probably tends toward Heavy Duty, yes? 3) I don't think you have any "problem" members here-- which I think is great. There's plenty of range for interesting personal interaction w/out the need to force any cliche'd soap opera plot devices.
Yep-- now somebody go write this group into something. . .
HB
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Post by starfoxxx on Jan 22, 2010 17:03:50 GMT -5
Okay, since this is my big "500th" post, I won't dwell on the cancellation of Mighty and Avengers Initiative (right when they were getting good, too). Now I will be down to Guardians as my sole "pull -list" title, until a non-Bendis Avengers book emerges....... I also like kidcage's "dream team", since She-Hulk and Quasar always were favorites. My "favorite" team would have to be circa Avengers #200. The Wasp and Yellowjacket, before the slap..... Vizh and Wanda, before the nonsense.... Beast and WonderMan (of course)..... Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, and the Big Three.... When I think Avengers, the image of Perez' #200 cover always comes to mind p.s., if Gyrich says that's too many members, he can stick it.
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jan 25, 2010 16:31:51 GMT -5
I like this team, KidCage. It's a seriously competent squad of heroes that are well-proven in the team environment. Couple of points: 1) Like the fact that you've included 3 solid female members. 2) Kind of a feast-or-famine factor with the power levels, though. She-Hulk, Quasar, and Thor are all Heavy-Duty to Cosmic in power range. Cap, Hawkeye and Wasp are all Unpowered (or Low Powered). Ms. Marvel may be mid-range-- although I believe she probably tends toward Heavy Duty, yes? 3) I don't think you have any "problem" members here-- which I think is great. There's plenty of range for interesting personal interaction w/out the need to force any cliche'd soap opera plot devices. Yep-- now somebody go write this group into something. . . HB Thank you, thank you. I loved putting this team together because they all tie into personal favorites of mine, but yet all seem to be able to work well. I think there's the definite possibility of great interaction (Hawkeye/She-Hulk), but I didn't want something to get bogged down. Wasp I planned on being the second-in-command since she's proven herself time and again, and Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk are personal favorites. I figure this could be a team with the power to fight a cosmic-level threat if needed, but could also make for a great throwdown against a beefed up Masters of Evil team, Ultron, etc. Some of this is taken with the fact I've been working like gangbusters to actually READ THROUGH the series lately, and I'm currently at 285 (I read about 2 - 4 issues a day), and the team made up of Cap/Wasp/Thor/Iron Man/She-Hulk/Hawkeye at #222 was one of my favorites, and I used this as a base. Anyway, glad you all liked it!
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Post by sufirjp on Apr 29, 2010 22:59:59 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and say I don't want the big three on the Avengers.
Does this mean I don't enjoy the heavy-hitters? Not at all. All three characters can consistently deliver engaging stories, but I feel they have the right stuff to carry series on their own. One of the reasons that the Avengers has proven to be such an excellent book over the years, to me, is that it allows an ensemble cast to operate with characters that have not traditionally proven their ability to support the weight of a book on their own. These second-stringers are given new life through their interpersonal dynamics. A classic example is Roger Stern's handling of the Wasp/Hercules relationship. Neither Wasp nor Hercules (until recently) could attract a large enough readership to have their own book, but their personality clashes made for truly gripping drama.
As such, here's my proposed Avengers:
Black Panther (Team Leader) Captain Marvel (Genis-Vell) Songbird Hawkeye USAgent Mockingbird Quicksilver
Reserves: Moondragon Hercules
Dynamics (or why I would pick such a strange-sounding mix):
Black Panther: When written at his most ruthless and mysterious, Black Panther is a fascinating character that puts everyone on edge. As a king, he is accustomed to having his orders acted on, and with a contrived reason to run the Avengers as compared to fulfilling his duties as monarch, he could find himself struggling to justify his seemingly-illogical actions to a team fully of strong-willed individuals. As his Machiavellian schemes drag a complaining and questioning team deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole, what is the point that they revolt altogether?
Captain Marvel/Songbird: The Genis-Vell/Songbird duo is an obvious nod to Avengers Forever, and a desperate plea to save Genis-Vell. Beyond that, though, Genis (after a contrived resurrection story) has been in a holding pattern since the end of his second series, wherein he needs to prove that he can live up to his father's legacy and is not a threat to human society. If this sounds like the Sentry, you're right, but Genis was always more of an interesting character with his own sense of morality that often put him at odds with "traditional" super-heroes. He can also act as a mirror for Black Panther, as the characters have similar themes of power and its abuse. Songbird, on the other hand, just deserves a break after years of abuse in one ugly Thunderbolts team after another.
Hawkeye/Mockingbird: Not only do I love the combative relationship dynamic between these two, Hawkeye had (before Bendis) become accustomed to leadership positions, especially in a more relaxed atmosphere. This subversion by Black Panther, who was never much of a team player, will relegate him to his traditional role of complainer/antagonist to the current administration, which is a role he may feel a lot less comfortable playing. Worse, it's likely to erode his relationship with Bobbi, as she loses respect for him when seeing Clint at his most juvenile.
USAgent: Always at his best when acting as the resident spy/jackass on the team, USAgent could play Gyrich's catspaw once more, ensuring that Black Panther is not using the Avengers as a tool for Wakandan national interests. In fact, a great subplot would be a quiet war between Bobbi and John, as Walker attempts to spy on BP and Mockingbird uses counterintelligence tactics to check his heavy-handed approach. This game could go on behind the scenes with none of the other characters (outside of BP) aware that it is even happening.
Quicksilver: Who would Pietro despise the most on this team? Black Panther, for being everything Pietro would like to be? USAgent, for being the jingoistic loudmouth? Hawkeye? Given the recent characterization of Quicksilver in Mighty Avengers, his initial sneering attitude towards the rest of the team could quickly change if he realizes that the group is in real peril of falling apart as it is the only family he has left. I find a certain joy in the idea that Quicksilver, as unobtrusively as possible, tries to keep the team together through a bit of meddling.
Runners-Up:
Quasar (Team Leader) Ant-Man (Irredeemable) Prince of Power (Amadeus Cho) Thundra Madame Masque War Machine Wonder Man
Reserves:
Two-Gun Kid Sersi
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Doctor Bong
Young Avenger
Master of belly dancing! (No, really...)
Posts: 73
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 30, 2010 1:04:51 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and say I don't want the big three on the Avengers. Does this mean I don't enjoy the heavy-hitters? Not at all. All three characters can consistently deliver engaging stories, but I feel they have the right stuff to carry series on their own. One of the reasons that the Avengers has proven to be such an excellent book over the years, to me, is that it allows an ensemble cast to operate with characters that have not traditionally proven their ability to support the weight of a book on their own. These second-stringers are given new life through their interpersonal dynamics. A classic example is Roger Stern's handling of the Wasp/Hercules relationship. Neither Wasp nor Hercules (until recently) could attract a large enough readership to have their own book, but their personality clashes made for truly gripping drama. As such, here's my proposed Avengers: Black Panther (Team Leader) Captain Marvel (Genis-Vell) Songbird Hawkeye USAgent Mockingbird Quicksilver Reserves: Moondragon Hercules Dynamics (or why I would pick such a strange-sounding mix): Black Panther: When written at his most ruthless and mysterious, Black Panther is a fascinating character that puts everyone on edge. As a king, he is accustomed to having his orders acted on, and with a contrived reason to run the Avengers as compared to fulfilling his duties as monarch, he could find himself struggling to justify his seemingly-illogical actions to a team fully of strong-willed individuals. As his Machiavellian schemes drag a complaining and questioning team deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole, what is the point that they revolt altogether? Captain Marvel/Songbird: The Genis-Vell/Songbird duo is an obvious nod to Avengers Forever, and a desperate plea to save Genis-Vell. Beyond that, though, Genis (after a contrived resurrection story) has been in a holding pattern since the end of his second series, wherein he needs to prove that he can live up to his father's legacy and is not a threat to human society. If this sounds like the Sentry, you're right, but Genis was always more of an interesting character with his own sense of morality that often put him at odds with "traditional" super-heroes. He can also act as a mirror for Black Panther, as the characters have similar themes of power and its abuse. Songbird, on the other hand, just deserves a break after years of abuse in one ugly Thunderbolts team after another. Hawkeye/Mockingbird: Not only do I love the combative relationship dynamic between these two, Hawkeye had (before Bendis) become accustomed to leadership positions, especially in a more relaxed atmosphere. This subversion by Black Panther, who was never much of a team player, will relegate him to his traditional role of complainer/antagonist to the current administration, which is a role he may feel a lot less comfortable playing. Worse, it's likely to erode his relationship with Bobbi, as she loses respect for him when seeing Clint at his most juvenile. USAgent: Always at his best when acting as the resident spy/jackass on the team, USAgent could play Gyrich's catspaw once more, ensuring that Black Panther is not using the Avengers as a tool for Wakandan national interests. In fact, a great subplot would be a quiet war between Bobbi and John, as Walker attempts to spy on BP and Mockingbird uses counterintelligence tactics to check his heavy-handed approach. This game could go on behind the scenes with none of the other characters (outside of BP) aware that it is even happening. Quicksilver: Who would Pietro despise the most on this team? Black Panther, for being everything Pietro would like to be? USAgent, for being the jingoistic loudmouth? Hawkeye? Given the recent characterization of Quicksilver in Mighty Avengers, his initial sneering attitude towards the rest of the team could quickly change if he realizes that the group is in real peril of falling apart as it is the only family he has left. I find a certain joy in the idea that Quicksilver, as unobtrusively as possible, tries to keep the team together through a bit of meddling. Runners-Up: Quasar (Team Leader) Ant-Man (Irredeemable) Prince of Power (Amadeus Cho) Thundra Madame Masque War Machine Wonder Man Reserves: Two-Gun Kid Sersi That would be quite an interesting set of team dynamics, yes sir... . I'll say I've often been intrigued by the fact that the Panther, with his royal background, obvious strategic savy and genius-level intelect, has never been the Avengers chairperson. No doubt the main reason was that his duties as a monarch have kept him off Avengers active duty most of the time; but another reason (whenever he actually was on the team) might be precisely what you refered to: that some of his teammates might suspect him of subordinating Avengers interests to Wakandan ones.
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 30, 2010 14:15:32 GMT -5
[That would be quite an interesting set of team dynamics, yes sir... . I'll say I've often been intrigued by the fact that the Panther, with his royal background, obvious strategic savy and genius-level intelect, has never been the Avengers chairperson. No doubt the main reason was that his duties as a monarch have kept him off Avengers active duty most of the time; but another reason (whenever he actually was on the team) might be precisely what you refered to: that some of his teammates might suspect him of subordinating Avengers interests to Wakandan ones. It was done in an almost unacknowledged, offhanded manner 'way back when he was a steadily active member, BUT-- T'challa was pretty consistently referred to as "the man alone" in several circumstances. The most overt example is the number of times the team would head out or come back in a Quinjet--- except for Black Panther, who frequently flew his one-man, Wakandan, super-duper rocket flyer-thingy. I mean-- what kind of message does that send? "I'm with ya all the way, guys--- I just prefer to drive my own car!" Bobc's a huge Black Panther guy 'round these parts-- I imagine we could coax a comment from him. . . HB
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 30, 2010 17:14:21 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and say I don't want the big three on the Avengers. Does this mean I don't enjoy the heavy-hitters? Not at all. All three characters can consistently deliver engaging stories, but I feel they have the right stuff to carry series on their own. One of the reasons that the Avengers has proven to be such an excellent book over the years, to me, is that it allows an ensemble cast to operate with characters that have not traditionally proven their ability to support the weight of a book on their own. These second-stringers are given new life through their interpersonal dynamics. A classic example is Roger Stern's handling of the Wasp/Hercules relationship. Neither Wasp nor Hercules (until recently) could attract a large enough readership to have their own book, but their personality clashes made for truly gripping drama. As such, here's my proposed Avengers: Black Panther (Team Leader) Captain Marvel (Genis-Vell) Songbird Hawkeye USAgent Mockingbird Quicksilver Reserves: Moondragon Hercules Dynamics (or why I would pick such a strange-sounding mix): Black Panther: When written at his most ruthless and mysterious, Black Panther is a fascinating character that puts everyone on edge. As a king, he is accustomed to having his orders acted on, and with a contrived reason to run the Avengers as compared to fulfilling his duties as monarch, he could find himself struggling to justify his seemingly-illogical actions to a team fully of strong-willed individuals. As his Machiavellian schemes drag a complaining and questioning team deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole, what is the point that they revolt altogether? Captain Marvel/Songbird: The Genis-Vell/Songbird duo is an obvious nod to Avengers Forever, and a desperate plea to save Genis-Vell. Beyond that, though, Genis (after a contrived resurrection story) has been in a holding pattern since the end of his second series, wherein he needs to prove that he can live up to his father's legacy and is not a threat to human society. If this sounds like the Sentry, you're right, but Genis was always more of an interesting character with his own sense of morality that often put him at odds with "traditional" super-heroes. He can also act as a mirror for Black Panther, as the characters have similar themes of power and its abuse. Songbird, on the other hand, just deserves a break after years of abuse in one ugly Thunderbolts team after another. Hawkeye/Mockingbird: Not only do I love the combative relationship dynamic between these two, Hawkeye had (before Bendis) become accustomed to leadership positions, especially in a more relaxed atmosphere. This subversion by Black Panther, who was never much of a team player, will relegate him to his traditional role of complainer/antagonist to the current administration, which is a role he may feel a lot less comfortable playing. Worse, it's likely to erode his relationship with Bobbi, as she loses respect for him when seeing Clint at his most juvenile. USAgent: Always at his best when acting as the resident spy/jackass on the team, USAgent could play Gyrich's catspaw once more, ensuring that Black Panther is not using the Avengers as a tool for Wakandan national interests. In fact, a great subplot would be a quiet war between Bobbi and John, as Walker attempts to spy on BP and Mockingbird uses counterintelligence tactics to check his heavy-handed approach. This game could go on behind the scenes with none of the other characters (outside of BP) aware that it is even happening. Quicksilver: Who would Pietro despise the most on this team? Black Panther, for being everything Pietro would like to be? USAgent, for being the jingoistic loudmouth? Hawkeye? Given the recent characterization of Quicksilver in Mighty Avengers, his initial sneering attitude towards the rest of the team could quickly change if he realizes that the group is in real peril of falling apart as it is the only family he has left. I find a certain joy in the idea that Quicksilver, as unobtrusively as possible, tries to keep the team together through a bit of meddling. Wow, like your thoughts on the dynamics. LOVE the subplot ideas (there are an awful lot of prospective writers hanging around here, it seems). I have one thought/suggestion, though-- I'm not sure we're seeing potential for the other side of the dynamics coin, as it were. Where is the strong interpersonal resonance against which the obvious dissonant elements stand out? Or rather- who are the friends, buddies, comrades, and trusted co-workers in this group? I mean, apart from the couples, of course (Bobbi/Clint & Genis/Mockingbird)-- who are the folks that really hit it off (Iron Man/Thor; Cap/Hawkeye; Beast/Wonderman; Jan/Monica), or at least have friendly rivalry (Subby/Herc; Hawkeye/She-hulk)? Melissa will get along with everyone, naturally. But then? Yikes- Hawkeye's probably the guy who has the broadest connection with that entire team, and certainly is capable of being the steady hand on the tiller (boy, talk about coming a long way!)-- but I don't see him dealing w/ arrogant, snotty Quicksilver and blowhard, small-minded John Walker and sharp-tongued wife Bobbi and secretive, taciturn, withdrawn leader T'Challa all in one day and not blowing his top. I think. . . I think the most important factor for a team's success is it's interpersonal bond--- perhaps even more than its reason for forming in the first place. But I must say, this team you've chosen would be a GREAT one for that kind of creative investment. 'Cause it's a "team that shouldn't be", sort of. This is where I usually start shouting "Write it! Write it!"-- but, geeze, like anyone else has more time than I do? Man, I just want to see some of these story ideas come to life. . . HB
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Post by sufirjp on May 1, 2010 15:39:43 GMT -5
As such, here's my proposed Avengers: Black Panther (Team Leader) Captain Marvel (Genis-Vell) Songbird Hawkeye USAgent Mockingbird Quicksilver Reserves: Moondragon Hercules Wow, like your thoughts on the dynamics. LOVE the subplot ideas (there are an awful lot of prospective writers hanging around here, it seems). I have one thought/suggestion, though-- I'm not sure we're seeing potential for the other side of the dynamics coin, as it were. Where is the strong interpersonal resonance against which the obvious dissonant elements stand out? Or rather- who are the friends, buddies, comrades, and trusted co-workers in this group? I mean, apart from the couples, of course (Bobbi/Clint & Genis/Mockingbird)-- who are the folks that really hit it off (Iron Man/Thor; Cap/Hawkeye; Beast/Wonderman; Jan/Monica), or at least have friendly rivalry (Subby/Herc; Hawkeye/She-hulk)? Melissa will get along with everyone, naturally. But then? Yikes- Hawkeye's probably the guy who has the broadest connection with that entire team, and certainly is capable of being the steady hand on the tiller (boy, talk about coming a long way!)-- but I don't see him dealing w/ arrogant, snotty Quicksilver and blowhard, small-minded John Walker and sharp-tongued wife Bobbi and secretive, taciturn, withdrawn leader T'Challa all in one day and not blowing his top. I think. . . I think the most important factor for a team's success is it's interpersonal bond--- perhaps even more than its reason for forming in the first place. But I must say, this team you've chosen would be a GREAT one for that kind of creative investment. 'Cause it's a "team that shouldn't be", sort of. This is where I usually start shouting "Write it! Write it!"-- but, geeze, like anyone else has more time than I do? Man, I just want to see some of these story ideas come to life. . . HB Interesting set of points, HB. While I tend to look for the points of conflict in a team, as that is the nature of drama, and see characters growing closer together as they undergo adverse circumstances as a team, there's a few unlikely friendships that could emerge. First, while it may seem a bit distasteful, I can't help but think that USAgent and Genis-Vell could gain a grudging respect for each other as they have similar militaristic views in many ways. They (along with T'Challa) have proactive attitudes and cut and dry moral codes that are strikingly harmonic, and converge with BP in their willingness to do whatever it takes to protect what they consider to be "the good". Also, there's a great buddy comedy waiting to be written between Hawkeye and Hercules that I've never seen properly explored. These characters are born to go out on the town, get ripped, and make fools of themselves as they try to take on the bad guys. Another "boon companionship" could be Moondragon and Quicksilver, whose condescending attitudes and belief that they are superior to the people they surround could lead to a team-up where Pietro and Heather decide they need to "manage" the team from behind the scenes to make sure things run smoothly. Although those are the only friendships that immediately seem apparent to me, I can't help but imagine that many writers for the Avengers did not have these relationships mapped out from the beginning, or even if they did, that they changed based on the events within the comic. Who says that Mockingbird and USAgent, when placed in a high-stress situation together, gain a mutual grudging admiration and respect that the writer had not foreseen until he placed the characters together in that situation, and their relationship grew organically from the story itself?
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 5, 2010 22:19:26 GMT -5
I'll take these guys. Look really close, and you can see the Wasp flying in front of Iron Man; the background is actually Goliath!
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Post by spiderwasp on Jul 5, 2010 23:42:09 GMT -5
Nice picture DLW. And you're right. Those are the Avengers. I just wish Quicksilver had been thrown in there but it's otherwise perfect.
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Post by humanbelly on Jul 6, 2010 5:55:11 GMT -5
Wow, great painting. Alex Ross, or a Ross lookalike? I would totally purchase this as a poster. . .
HB
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 6, 2010 8:00:04 GMT -5
HB --
It's actually a print that will be available in San Diego this year at Comicon. It is indeed by the incomparable Alex Ross. If you check out our blog post today (address in sig. line) you can get a link to a blurb about this in the LA Times. You can also run a general Google search for "Alex Ross" + Avengers + Comicon and you'll get all sorts of fanboy adoration for this painting.
It is cool... Very cool!
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jul 6, 2010 15:04:06 GMT -5
Wow. That's just... Wow. I'm certainly hoping this comes available after SDCC for purchase, cause this would hang on my wall over my collection with pride.
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jan 8, 2011 15:26:12 GMT -5
Ah to resurrect, lol. I was looking at my Hasbro Marvel Universe and Iron Man 2 figures collection and realized with just the figures that have been released, I think I found some interestingly cool teams that would be great for the team.
This would be the kidcage alternate universe where Bendis has no hold. I tried to keep it to 7 members with 1 reserve and reasons why.
Avengers: East Coast Branch Leader: Captain America (Steve Rogers) Members: Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Black Widow, Yellowjacket, Wasp. Reservist: Namor
<>The reason to this group is because I see this as all the founding members (minus Hulk) along with some needed other members. Black Panther could be part of a "royalty" aspect, serving as an international ambassador for the Avengers. Black Widow can be the espionage part of the team as well. Namor can come in where needed since he's on good terms with Cap. Also, notice Steve is Cap and Jan isn't dead. Who needs that noise of Bucky taking over and Jan being dead? Not this team.
--
Avengers: West Coast Branch Leader: Hawkeye Members: Ms. Marvel, Ant-Man (Scott Lang), War Machine, Vision, Firestar, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) Reservist: Human Torch I
<>Hawkeye goes West to re-establish the Avengers as a nationwide team. Since Mockingbird hasn't been made in figure form, I got a little creative. I went with Firestar because I do like the character and think she'd have some good interactions with the team. War Machine can be the firepower, Vision can add some power along with Ms. Marvel. Spider-Woman and Ant-Man would be along to add a new feel to the West Coast. Human Torch I was a throwback to the AWC and added because his resurrection issue is a fond memory from childhood.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 11, 2011 5:59:52 GMT -5
Ah to resurrect, lol. I was looking at my Hasbro Marvel Universe and Iron Man 2 figures collection and realized with just the figures that have been released, I think I found some interestingly cool teams that would be great for the team. This would be the kidcage alternate universe where Bendis has no hold. I tried to keep it to 7 members with 1 reserve and reasons why. Avengers: East Coast BranchLeader: Captain America (Steve Rogers) Members: Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Black Widow, Yellowjacket, Wasp. Reservist: Namor <>The reason to this group is because I see this as all the founding members (minus Hulk) along with some needed other members. Black Panther could be part of a "royalty" aspect, serving as an international ambassador for the Avengers. Black Widow can be the espionage part of the team as well. Namor can come in where needed since he's on good terms with Cap. Also, notice Steve is Cap and Jan isn't dead. Who needs that noise of Bucky taking over and Jan being dead? Not this team. -- Avengers: West Coast BranchLeader: Hawkeye Members: Ms. Marvel, Ant-Man (Scott Lang), War Machine, Vision, Firestar, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) Reservist: Human Torch I <>Hawkeye goes West to re-establish the Avengers as a nationwide team. Since Mockingbird hasn't been made in figure form, I got a little creative. I went with Firestar because I do like the character and think she'd have some good interactions with the team. War Machine can be the firepower, Vision can add some power along with Ms. Marvel. Spider-Woman and Ant-Man would be along to add a new feel to the West Coast. Human Torch I was a throwback to the AWC and added because his resurrection issue is a fond memory from childhood. Boy, whenever someone posts on this thread, I'm just unable to turn away (I notice I have 'waaaayyy too many posts on it!)-- no willpower whatsoever. It's just like putting a Star Trek re-run in front of a computer geek. . . (Okay, okay-- Star Trek has that effect on me, as well. . . ) Kidcage, I think your East Coast team could be viable even in the current (or someday "post-Bendis") era. Steve is still Steve, even if he's not Cap. And we're all assuming Jan will be revived somehow sooner or later. I've lost track of T'challa (sorry bobc!), as he may not be super-powered anymore-- but he'd certainly still be valuable to the team in any capacity. In fact-- maybe as its leader, rather than Steve? Or maybe there'd be an unwilling power struggle there? That could even be the interesting conflict to build a story arc around. The West Coast team is great! The one exception I'd take would be War Machine, as I've yet to see Rhodey used interestingly at all on an Avengers team. He's a great guy-- but he's never given any characterization whatsoever. In Secret Avengers, it could be anyone in that suit. Might I suggest. . . the original Luther Manning Deathlok? Not the robot copies, or various other mind-transferred/cloned versions-- but the original guy who woke up in that cyborg body with an "extra" personality complementing his human and computer personnas? His interactions with the (assumed) original Vision could be quite poignant-- who's the more human article? His background is deeply military, which could rub Hawkeye and (newly alive) Scott quite the wrong way, but Carol could certainly appreciate. Would Firestar be afraid of him? (He's extremely creepy). Wow-- could both Carol and Jessica even be attracted to him? Actually, not Carol-- she does have a precedent for liking a good-looking fellow. And how would Luther respond, as he has a wife & child lost somewhere in an alternate earth reality? See, this is why I get suckered in, here. It always makes me think of stories I want to see explored. . . HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jan 11, 2011 15:05:14 GMT -5
I never even thought of Deathlok since I never followed the character, but it could be awesome. I just looked over at my shelf of figures one day and saw the amount of Avengers and went "Hey.. What If?"
I immediately thought that the first team "villain showdown" would break down with Ultron (East Coast) while the West Coast would face off with the Wrecking Crew, just because I've always liked them and because it'd make for one heck of an interesting brawl.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 12, 2011 5:48:36 GMT -5
"The Wrecking Crew-?"-- I thought. "Aren't they kinda lightweight to be a major adversary?"
But that West Coast Team you've got isn't actually stocked with prime heavy-weights, and there is a precedent or two of the W-Crew being entirely composed of serious heavy-weight characters-- so that could be a hefty slug-fest, indeed.
I dunno, though-- they're ultimately a group of low-life, hyper-powered thugs (although Thunderball was once an atomic physicist-- he referred to being called "The black Bruce Banner" in Defenders # 16 or so.). And they've been used so inconsistently over the years that it makes me crazy. As long as the Wrecker is running their show, I have trouble taking them entirely seriously. . .
I would suggest another iteration of the Masters of Evil--- except that sounds so inane in a modern context. Y'know, to give credit to a maligned source-- the whole SuperVillain Mafia thing that Bendis created with the Hood at the helm isn't an entirely bad model (Ha! And which the Wrecking Crew were members of, now that I think of it!)-- I just think it needs someone more established and- dare I say- legitimate at the helm. Which could give rise to an off-shoot thread, here: What would your favorite (well, or "most likely to succeed") supervillain team be, here?
HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jan 12, 2011 13:49:17 GMT -5
Well, I think maybe the Masters of Evil could almost branch off into two versions to face off with them. I LOVED the whole "Siege of the Mansion" storyline and that MoE team, (which WC were part of, actually, lol) so maybe work on something like that. I think Zemo would still be content with making the East Coast team's life hell, so for the west coast... I haven't quite figured something out. I think it would be neat to create villains who aren't necessarily drawn into Avengers lore to be a problem. Doc Ock, for instance, but he'd pretty much be screwed against an entire team, hehe. All I know is the lineup above and the ideas of a series has me seriously considering a "what if" timeline of Avengers comics. Who needs Bendis when we have us?
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 12, 2011 17:36:09 GMT -5
Well, I think maybe the Masters of Evil could almost branch off into two versions to face off with them. I LOVED the whole "Siege of the Mansion" storyline and that MoE team, (which WC were part of, actually, lol) so maybe work on something like that. I think Zemo would still be content with making the East Coast team's life hell, so for the west coast... I haven't quite figured something out. I think it would be neat to create villains who aren't necessarily drawn into Avengers lore to be a problem. Doc Ock, for instance, but he'd pretty much be screwed against an entire team, hehe. All I know is the lineup above and the ideas of a series has me seriously considering a "what if" timeline of Avengers comics. Who needs Bendis when we have us? Well, here's a central question I'd ask you to mull over: Is an organized "team" of Supervillains even a realistically feasible entity? I mean, without becoming hopelessly shallow, cliche'd, and cheesy? Heck, I'll just bet that question's been clobbering these writers for years. The very aspects of their personalities that make them villains (megalomania, greed, selfishness, antipathy towards the norms and laws of common society, predisposition towards cruelty, lack of empathy, adherance to the needs of self in all situations, etc, etc, etc) are what should make them completely unable to function in a "team" environment of any kind. A team has to function with a common goal or desire, and subvert the individual identities to the needs of the group identity. Bendis' Hood bozo did that by appealing to a big group of Z-listers' naked greed, desire for revenge, and the inherent security brought about by being part of a pack. And I still have trouble buying it-- and it did, in fact, fall apart in the end. You almost have to explore the realm of street gangs, I think, where the interpersonal bonds are forged through being a part of something that's "better" than the gang 5 blocks away. But a regular Avengers-model team of supervillains-- I don't know. I know we have them, but their viability, to me, doesn't hold up at all upon closer examination of what their dynamics would have to be. HB
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 12, 2011 23:29:27 GMT -5
I agree that it seems highly unlikely that supervillains would ban together as easily as they often do since they always have their own motives and they don't seem likely to jive together unless they are out for financial gain, world domination, or vengence. The simple fact that they are all evil doesn't seem to cut it.
Then again, that's the biggest problem I have with many of the groups, the names. The Masters of Evil, The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, The Circus of Crime, The Institute of Evil (From Squadron Supreme), The Sinister Six, The Frightful Four. Generally speaking, bad people don't see themselves as bad. They see their evil actions as justified or righteous. In comics by choosing these sinister, evil titles for themselves they make it clear that they are one dimensional bad guys out to simply do bad stuff. It greatly reduces their depth. It does, however make it easier to identify the bad guys when they tell us straight out "We're bad." Wouldn't it be nice if, in real life the Ku Klux Klan called themselves The Klan of Evil, Hitler had controlled the Hatred party instead of the Nazis or the Westboro Baptist Church (The ones that march and protest at the funerals of soldiers) called themselves the Church of the Evil Bastards?
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