How is Osborne still walking around?

[Nutcase65]

Okay, I dont understand why Osborne is free and in charce of the T-bolts.

The whole point, on the surface, of the SHRA was to make the norms feel safer with the supers under control.

So Osborne, supposedly under Starks control goes nuts and starts a fight with Atlantis. He's then arrested. On world-wide television.

So here are my questions.

1. Atlantis is proud of their honor. How can they not be asking for Osborne to face Atlantis style justice.
2. How can the common people feel safe with Osborne in control of the super-cops?
3. Wouldn't Tony, since making people feel safe is his main goal, put Osborne back away?

This is the one thing about the series that doesn't make sense to me.

Please explain

[balok]

1. Atlantis might declare war. Given the tense political situation, extradition requests, even if there is a treaty, are likely to fall on deaf ears. But they could send some of their own people after the T-Bolts to get Norman themselves - perhaps that will happen in the book.

2. How can the common people feel safe with every superhero beholden to the government?

3. Maybe it's not his decision. The CSA is pretty clearly run by amoral people, considering who they put on the T-Bolts and how the let them operate. So Tony shouldn't want Osborne in their custody. But he doesn't rule the United States [1] and might have been overruled.

[1] Yet. When he's reached enough disagreements with the President, that will be the next thing he tries "to make people feel safe."

[Nutcase65]

Still, it is something I think should be addressed. There should be a reason, or excuse, given for why he's still out there.

[thew40]

balok said:

3. Maybe it's not his decision. The CSA is pretty clearly run by amoral people, considering who they put on the T-Bolts and how the let them operate. So Tony shouldn't want Osborne in their custody. But he doesn't rule the United States [1] and might have been overruled.

Just to point it out.

Tony has no say in the CSA. It runs seperately from SHIELD.

~W~

[Nutcase65]

All that aside. Isn't he PUBLICLY over the Thunderbolts? Wouldn't the already skittish American public be wanting to know why? The public isn't just gonna say,"Oh the war is over, we feel safe again".

It would just seem like with public opinion and security being a driving force in this whole thing, they wouldn't want the public seeing a person they know is insane behind the wheel of the tank driving down their street.

[balok]

According to the Battle Damage Report, Tony plans for SHIELD to enforce the Act only until Federal agencies such as O.N.E. and the CSA have developed sufficient capability to do this, which they did not have.

That book was a worthwhile buy - it provided a lot of answers, such as the real reasons why Namor and the Black Panther entered the Civil War on Cap's side.

And occasional bits of hilarity: they gave Doctor Strange an exemption from the SHRA (because of his status as mystic defender of the planet, but really because they know they can't take him down), but he is now wanted as an accessory for aiding the New Avengers. And Tony thinks Brother Voodoo could stand a chance against him!

[The Night Phantom]

balok said:

And occasional bits of hilarity: they gave Doctor Strange an exemption from the SHRA (because of his status as mystic defender of the planet, but really because they know they can't take him down), but he is now wanted as an accessory for aiding the New Avengers. And Tony thinks Brother Voodoo could stand a chance against him!

I found that bit about Brother Voodoo quite hilarious as well. My comics pusher—er, seller and I laughed and laughed when I read that to him.

[Doctor Bong]

That's a character who's crying for a name change...

[Nutcase65]

ua2 said:

That's a character who's crying for a name change...

Yeah, I bet he gets made fun of at all the superhero parties.

"OOOH here comes Brother DooDoo"

[balok]

thew40 said:

Tony has no say in the CSA. It runs seperately from SHIELD.

That was my point.

Although given the CSA's past, and present morality, I'd rather have SHIELD in charge...

[Nutcase65]

But no matter WHO is in charge, I still have to ask, why do they allow Osborne to be free and in charge. The normal people would react in fear and distrust, and there is almost no way to spin Osborne's image in a positive manner.
As far as America is concerned he attempted to satart a war, and noone is gonna make America aware that Stark intentionally let that happen, so Osborne just looks completely uncontrollable.

[balok]

nutcase65 said:

But no matter WHO is in charge, I still have to ask, why do they allow Osborne to be free and in charge. The normal people would react in fear and distrust, and there is almost no way to spin Osborne's image in a positive manner.
As far as America is concerned he attempted to satart a war, and noone is gonna make America aware that Stark intentionally let that happen, so Osborne just looks completely uncontrollable.

These are the same people that keep Bullseye on the team - a man whose idea of subduing a suspect (whose only crime is that he failed to trust the government with his name) is to leave him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

They're not moral people. But, hey, at least they'll be running the Initiative soon!

[Tana Nile]

balok said:

That book was a worthwhile buy - it provided a lot of answers, such as the real reasons why Namor and the Black Panther entered the Civil War on Cap's side.

This is one of the reasons I have enjoyed the recent run of Black Panther - his meeting with Namor, where the Atlantean explained his apprehensions regarding US government-controlled heroes. Obviously this appealed to my own ethical beliefs, but regardless I think it was a well-written segment of the civil war event.

[Nutcase65]

balok said:

These are the same people that keep Bullseye on the team

I don't think the public knows bullseye is on the team. Isn't he always telepoted in and out and supervised by direct handlers? It seemed that way with Flagg.

[balok]

nutcase65 said:

I don't think the public knows bullseye is on the team. Isn't he always telepoted in and out and supervised by direct handlers? It seemed that way with Flagg.

That might be true, but whether the people running the CSA are moral or not has nothing to do with public perception. If no one knows he's on the team, the public might be more inclined to trust these immoral men and women. I guess Jack Flagg will have to have an accident to keep him from talking - I'm sure Moonstone can handle that.

[Nutcase65]

but again, I'm not asking about the morality of any issue.

One of the main drives behind all of this was the fact that the public was having problems with being afraid of the superhero population.

That's why we have all this. The Thunderbolts are driven by public opinion, that opinion is almost the biggest driving factor behind the Thunderbolts.
1. They are running a popular toy line
2. They have press notifications about their actions as they happen
3. They are able to spin-doctor their actions immediately through their press co-ordinator.
Public opinion really matters to this organizations success.

With public opinion being such a LARGE part of the organization I dont see how ANY group in charge, WHOEVER it may be can get by with Osborne in the drivers seat. The public opinion would be hugely negative in light of Osbornes past actions

and I definately see a Thunderbolts/Atlantis story as a possibility. They need to do some kind of story, because to keep doing superhero apprehensions one issue at a time will get sorta dull.

[The Night Phantom]

nutcase65 said:

With public opinion being such a LARGE part of the organization I dont see how ANY group in charge, WHOEVER it may be can get by with Osborne in the drivers seat. The public opinion would be hugely negative in light of Osbornes past actions

Maybe they see him as a victim of that nasty criminal Spider-Man.

[Alchemist-X]

The general public the the MU knows about Norm's Goblin days now right? I thought that was the last state he was in (But that could have been retroconed, I'm behind on my Spiderman readings)

If they don't know how bad he is, then that would be a good explination, but more likely he doesn't look like a bad spot because of the TBolts spindoctor, I mean its not like Osborn goes out and fights with the team right? Out of sight out of mind, same thing with Bullseye.

[Nutcase65]

but Osborne is a front man for the Tbolts with the media, and the public know about his craziness during the CW

[balok]

nightphantom said:

Maybe they see him as a victim of that nasty criminal Spider-Man.

This is how I'd spin it. And Spider-Man has given the CSA two powerful tools: he opposes registration, and he has a past checkered with periods of time where the police disliked and sometimes actively hunted him.

All that's necessary is to suggest that Norman is doing a patriotic thing by cooperating with (future) King Stark I, and Spider-Man is a vicious criminal who used to victimize poor Norman, and the public will eat it up.

[The Night Phantom]

balok said:

nightphantom said:

Maybe they see him as a victim of that nasty criminal Spider-Man.

This is how I'd spin it. And Spider-Man has given the CSA two powerful tools: he opposes registration, and he has a past checkered with periods of time where the police disliked and sometimes actively hunted him.

All that's necessary is to suggest that Norman is doing a patriotic thing by cooperating with (future) King Stark I, and Spider-Man is a vicious criminal who used to victimize poor Norman, and the public will eat it up.

Not to forget that Spider-Man’s ringleader in the outlaw pseudo-Avengers is Luke Cage, who was instrumental in defaming Osborn and getting his freedoms taken away.

[Nutcase65]

OK, that would answer my question. Play off of the public's fear of Spidey to outweigh their fear of Osborne.

That makes twisted sense

[Doctor Bong]

Perhaps the public al large is confused & thinks these heinous acts were actually commited by Ozzy Osbourne...

[Nutcase65]

No, the public would only think it was Ozzy if he urinated on an historic landmark while he did whatever evil that was happening.

[Doctor Doom]

It's easier to suspend disbelief on Osborn doing this than it has been for other things lately...

...Though really I must ask who decided to leave him unsupervised like that. I mean, I could see him getting the role with some oversight but I think 112 has shown us rather definitively for the 54th time in a month or so that he is an unhinged loon.

That said, I'm loving every minute of it!

[balok]

The inmates are running the asylum at Marvel right now.

At times, Marvel would run a cover with copy such as "Not a hoax, not a dream, not an imaginary story!"

I'd take any of those over what they've been shovelling since Civil War began.

[Nutcase65]

docdoom said:

It's easier to suspend disbelief on Osborn doing this than it has been for other things lately...

...Though really I must ask who decided to leave him unsupervised like that. I mean, I could see him getting the role with some oversight but I think 112 has shown us rather definitively for the 54th time in a month or so that he is an unhinged loon.

That said, I'm loving every minute of it!

Oh, I agree 100%. This is by far one of my favorite titles right now. I don't ask my question to be critical. I'm just wondering how they're gonna be set up ro explain it when he jumps the tracks again. Because nannites or not, he's already cracking at the seams.