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Post by goldenfist on Oct 11, 2007 19:24:18 GMT -5
Here's a review from ign.com about New Avengers #35.
I did not have high hopes for this issue. I hate symbiotes. They're typically lame plot devices and are responsible for some of the worst storytelling to come out of Marvel during the '90s (Spider-Carnage anyone?). What makes an issue like this any different? Well, Brian Michael Bendis for one. His Ultimatization of the Venom saga was one of the best single arcs of Ultimate Spider-Man, so I'd like to think the man knows his away around symbiotes. But the real reason is Parker Robbins.
You see, this issue actually has almost nothing to do with the symbiote arc that should be going on in Mighty Avengers right now. The Hood is the star of the show here, and he steals d**n near every scene. If his brief appearances in the last two issues didn't convince you Mr. Robbins is awesome sauce, this one will do the job nicely. We get a much closer glimpse of his grab for power in the seedy underbelly of Marvel's New York. The concept of supervillains uniting under a single banner isn't exactly a new one. Heck, just look at the Injustice League over at the Distinguished Competition. But it feels fresh here, and MAX fans will be very happy to see that Hood's entry into the Marvel U proper hasn't dulled his edge any (Poor, poor Tigra). I just wish I recognized more than a handful of his new minions.
Leinil Yu's art is also worth mentioning, if only because it feels much less muddy and messy than recent efforts. Yu is no doubt a great match for this series, but his tendency to ink his own work too often wreaks havoc on my overall enjoyment of the book. Not so here. The line work is cleaner, the faces more expressive, and the colors actually pop. Slightly Other than one or two instances where the storytelling momentum just stops flat, this is easily the best issue of New Avengers since the end of Civil War. We haven't seen hide nor hair of Skrulls in months, and I don't care in the slightest. As long as I get more of the Hood, I don't care if I see another green, scalloped chin for the rest of my life. (This reviewer gave the book an 8.6 whichs mean the score say's great)
another take from another reviewer I'll be honest, I'm guilty of judging a book by its cover. When I saw the one on this issue, I cringed. Wolvenom? Venolverine? It was like something out of 1994 that would sell 350,000 copies, be adored by nine-year-olds, and be considered a critical and commercial success by Marvel. Imagine my sheer delight upon discovering that cash cow/symbiote hybrids are nowhere to be seen in this issue's pages and instead the focus is on Bendis's new golden child, the Hood. Not a moment too soon, either. I never read the Hood's debut miniseries and skipped Beyond! so I was one of those readers left scratching his head when Parker Robbins showed up in recent issues of New Avengers and everyone's knees started quaking. I mean, he doesn't even have a proper costume. A red hood and some Dockers pleated khakis. Please. But after this issue, well... I'm a believer. If this trend continues, I'll be able to accept the Hood standing alongside the comic book supervillain greats. Robbins and his cadre of losers (The Wrecking Crew? Madame Masque???) are given a real adrenaline shot with this issue, and it's a welcome departure from the stream of comics out there featuring villains we're just told we should be afraid of. Bash Bendis all you want, he can shape a character like it ain't no thing.
I've never been the biggest advocate of Yu's artwork on New Avengers, and if you're like me this issue won't change your mind. The scene in Tigra's home stands out as a sequence that works well (partly thanks to Dave McCaig's outstanding color work) but for every one of those, there's a cramped, confusing action scene with wildly shifting angles and frustrating fluidity like the opening sequence. It's definitely not awful by any means, I'm just not sure Yu's work gels with Bendis's scripts as well as I'd like. (This reviewer gave the book an 8.7 which also means the score say's great)
So who disagree's with the reviews of New Avengers #35.
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Post by thew40 on Oct 11, 2007 22:25:10 GMT -5
Thought this issue was really disappointing, but I like what's happening with the Hood. Kinda making his own anti-Initiative.
~W~
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Post by Tana Nile on Oct 11, 2007 23:43:14 GMT -5
I haven't been buying this book for a couple of months, and after seeing these pages, I'm glad. community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4182789.html?page=2#commentsSo Tigra, with her cat-like reflexes, enhanced strength, and Avengers training, is easily pistol-whipped and beaten? I'm sure somebody out there enjoys sleaze like this. No thanks.
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 12, 2007 4:13:12 GMT -5
So Tigra, with her cat-like reflexes, enhanced strength, and Avengers training, is easily pistol-whipped and beaten? I'm sure somebody out there enjoys sleaze like this. No thanks. Agreed. At least some people can see the sickeness and non-entertainment value in this. I've said it before and I'll say it again.... you suck BENDIS!
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 12, 2007 4:17:53 GMT -5
So the this no talent hack has to make another double/triple agent now that Spider Woman is out of the picture for a while? He just did this whole Hydra owns Jessica thing for how long and now he's gotta do it all over again with Tigra? The man has some serious issues with women if you ask me. I'm telling you Heroes Reborn is looking pretty good in comparison.
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 12, 2007 4:18:47 GMT -5
And just in case no one caught it the first time... YOU SUCK BENDIS!
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 12, 2007 10:38:04 GMT -5
I was quite happy with this issue. Thought it was the best since... well, that's a good question. The best in a very long time anyway. Maybe even since "Breakout".
Bendis is FAR more comfortable writing crime/noir books than super heroes, and this fit right into that. Yes, some things about the Tigra situation pissed me off- in particular that Bendis chose her, since he's been very vocal about his dislike of her in the past. That irritated me.
But mostly... it was good. The art kind of ruined it, but I'm a sucker for villain issues and an even bigger sucker for giany super villain team-ups, which Marvel don't have NEARLY often enough. The villains themselves... meh. I can't really say. I want to like them, but the art is so atrociously awful I have no idea who the hell they are.
Some very nice bits in there, I quite like the Hood's Inner Circle, and I hope his little Marvel "Secret Society" get a LOT of play and aren't horribly misused. This should be less anticlimatic than DC's Society from a few years back.
At the same time, while it's done well, the villains themselves because many are so obscure and because we're seeing the Hood focused on rather than them, need more face time. It's not quite as good as the "Injustice League" arc going on in JLA right now, but it could be. It's bigger scale anyway.
Despite my nitpicks, a great issue. 8.5/10
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Post by balok on Oct 12, 2007 11:20:17 GMT -5
I was quite happy with this issue. You don't need to post this. We pretty much know it by now. While Bendis did a good job on Alias, he has not done a single team comic that I have enjoyed with the exception of the very first arc of New Avengers. It's been downhill ever since. I won't send Marvel the message that this hack is even a little bit acceptable as a creator by purchasing anything he does. He must go!
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 12, 2007 11:49:21 GMT -5
I was quite happy with this issue. You don't need to post this. We pretty much know it by now. Not at all. There have been a few issues recently I wasn't quite that happy with, plus quite a few pre-Civil War. And even the best of New Avengers still isn't on the level of Mighty. On the other hand, if people were to stop posting things about certain titles which they'd said before, you'd NEVER, EVER get to post Balok, so I think it's a poor rule.
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Post by goldenfist on Oct 12, 2007 13:24:55 GMT -5
So posting the reviews are banned now?
All I did was post what the reviewers said.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 12, 2007 15:10:47 GMT -5
Relax, 'fist -- Doom directed the last comment to Balok as an insult. It's just the way they are when they play together...
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Post by Shiryu on Oct 12, 2007 16:26:19 GMT -5
So posting the reviews are banned now? All I did was post what the reviewers said. Don't worry, you can post all the reviews you want I read the issue (online ^^ still can'b buy NA) and found it better than the previous ones. While still *very* far from what I'd consider a favourite book, I think that the post CW issues have not been too bad, despite a fair bit of inconsistencies and a "you are a Skrull" conspiracy plot dragging too long. I would rate this issue a 5.5 / 6- As for how easily Tigra is beaten, I agree with Tana that she should have managed to win against the Hood. This being said, inconsistencies have been around long before NA. I remember a huge one in the second Superman/Spidey crossover, where Clark has to save Peter from activating a bomb by blowing him away. His spider-sense must have been sleeping on that one...
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Post by thew40 on Oct 12, 2007 21:02:44 GMT -5
As for how easily Tigra is beaten, I agree with Tana that she should have managed to win against the Hood. This being said, inconsistencies have been around long before NA. . . . Or she could be a Skrull. ~W~
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Post by bendisbites on Oct 13, 2007 1:47:41 GMT -5
Read this one... seemed weird and silly. first, the cover. It had practically nothing to do with the inside of the book. what's the point of that? Sorry, if I were someone who wanted to see a comic based on that cover image (and there's probably someone out there who did), I just lost my dough. Second, the Hood. Man, how this third rater suddenly become more dangerous than Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet? Look I like the idea of a street level team up of villains; it's a good one and I would've liked it in marvel knights and that level of character. But suddenly The Hood sneaks around with his limited time invisibility, normal human strength, and ability to walk on air is beating the characters he should have the most trouble with--people like Tigra and Wolverine who have incredible speed and enhanced senses. what's next --is he gonna sneak up on the Black Panther? spider man? daredevil? I mean send him after luke cage who is strong and a powerhouse but might have trouble with a finesse villain. That's interesting to me. But ignoring what makes wolvie and tigra who they are in a storyline is a basic misunderstanding of competent storytelling. why not have the hood burn the Human Torch, out arm wrestle the Thing? out invisible the Invisible Girl? Other bad points? The villains in his circle...Dr Demonicus? Didn't he own an island? Or two? And giant monsters? Now he's accepting 25 grand for some reason? He had his own country recognized by the UN. Sure he had the island crumble around him, but he's had other bases et al and he's a world conqueror type villain who creates his own villain army. To me it's like having Donald Trump show up at the plumber's union local. why's he there I don't know, unless someone just didn't do their research... And I believe cutthroat is there too? the art is a little sketchy so I can't be 100% sure but if so, will someone please explain why he's not dead? It's been a couple of years since he popped up at the Raft after having been killed by Crossbones with no explanation of why he's not dead. can we just get a modicum of internal consistency? oh wait, he's probably just a skrull, right? bendis just doesn't pay attention to the details and that just ruins his work for me. good idea, lousy execution. gets a failing grade from me.
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Post by Alchemist-X on Oct 13, 2007 4:48:50 GMT -5
I was quite happy with this issue. Thought it was the best since... well, that's a good question. The best in a very long time anyway. Maybe even since "Breakout". Bendis is FAR more comfortable writing crime/noir books than super heroes, and this fit right into that. Yes, some things about the Tigra situation pissed me off- in particular that Bendis chose her, since he's been very vocal about his dislike of her in the past. That irritated me. But mostly... it was good. The art kind of ruined it, but I'm a sucker for villain issues and an even bigger sucker for giany super villain team-ups, which Marvel don't have NEARLY often enough. The villains themselves... meh. I can't really say. I want to like them, but the art is so atrociously awful I have no idea who the hell they are. Some very nice bits in there, I quite like the Hood's Inner Circle, and I hope his little Marvel "Secret Society" get a LOT of play and aren't horribly misused. This should be less anticlimatic than DC's Society from a few years back. At the same time, while it's done well, the villains themselves because many are so obscure and because we're seeing the Hood focused on rather than them, need more face time. It's not quite as good as the "Injustice League" arc going on in JLA right now, but it could be. It's bigger scale anyway. Despite my nitpicks, a great issue. 8.5/10 I'd say I have to agree with you on just about all points, but none more strongly than WHO THE HELL WERE ALL THOSE PEOPLE?? like...seriously, If I knew it would be a d**n good issue, I mean a lot did happen, and a fair bit of action was squeezed in too I think, but man, the art is just killing me.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 13, 2007 5:41:57 GMT -5
Read this one... seemed weird and silly. first, the cover. It had practically nothing to do with the inside of the book. what's the point of that? Sorry, if I were someone who wanted to see a comic based on that cover image (and there's probably someone out there who did), I just lost my dough. Fair enough, that's a valid criticism indeed. Of course, for me I dislike Venom and I dislike Wolverine so it actually made the issue a more pleasant surprise. But no, you're right there. Again, another fair enough criticism, I can see what you mean. I disagree, because Wolverine's senses couldn't have been much use to him in that confrontation and Hood didn#t really get a clean win, he just escaped. But I agree the Tigra confrontation was the weakest point of this issue, even if I didn't feel it was as bad as you did. I have no earthly idea as the art was so appaling I couldn't recognize anyone. Actually, to be fair I don't think you can blame Bendis on this one. I doubt he sat down and came up with an absolutely exhausitive list of every villain he could. More likely he asked for the Raft escapees, or named a few and Yu researched more, or Editorial came up with some for Yu to draw. It's more an editorial fault than a writing one.
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Post by bendisbites on Oct 13, 2007 10:25:01 GMT -5
Read this one... seemed weird and silly. first, the cover. It had practically nothing to do with the inside of the book. what's the point of that? Sorry, if I were someone who wanted to see a comic based on that cover image (and there's probably someone out there who did), I just lost my dough. Fair enough, that's a valid criticism indeed. Of course, for me I dislike Venom and I dislike Wolverine so it actually made the issue a more pleasant surprise. But no, you're right there. Again, another fair enough criticism, I can see what you mean. I disagree, because Wolverine's senses couldn't have been much use to him in that confrontation and Hood didn#t really get a clean win, he just escaped. But I agree the Tigra confrontation was the weakest point of this issue, even if I didn't feel it was as bad as you did. I have no earthly idea as the art was so appaling I couldn't recognize anyone. Actually, to be fair I don't think you can blame Bendis on this one. I doubt he sat down and came up with an absolutely exhausitive list of every villain he could. More likely he asked for the Raft escapees, or named a few and Yu researched more, or Editorial came up with some for Yu to draw. It's more an editorial fault than a writing one. I am shocked. Shocked and stunned. You actually agreed with some of my criticisms... In any case, here's the stats on Tigra: She has pointed ears, sharper-than-normal teeth with pronounced upper and lower canines, eyes with enlarged irises and vertically-slitted pupils, and retractable claws on her feet and hands instead of nails. Her claws and teeth are sufficiently strong to puncture sheet steel, such as that found in a car body. Tigra also has a long semi-prehensile tail, and can willfully contact (but not grasp and lift) objects with it. Tigra's feline physiology grants her various superhuman attributes including superhuman strength, speed, stamina, agility, reflexes, and resistance to physical injury. If she suffers injury, her physiology enables her to heal much faster and more extensively than an ordinary human is capable of.
Tigra's senses of sight, smell, and hearing extend far into the superhuman range and are also superior to those of real cats. Tigra can see farther, and with much greater clarity, than an ordinary human. She has this same level of clarity at night, and her vision also extends slightly into the infrared spectrum, allowing her to see in complete darkness.
Her hearing is similarly enhanced, allowing her to hear a wider range of frequencies than a normal human as well as clearly hear sounds that would be far too faint for a human to detect. Exposure to intense, high-frequency sound is far more painful for Tigra than a normal human, however.
Tigra's sense of smell is developed to the point that she can recognize a person by scent alone, and track an individual across great distances and through complex environments. She can also sense changes in a person's mood through changes in scent.
The unusual animal-human hybrid configuration of her brain makes her somewhat resistant to telepathic assaults. Though Tigra is not immune to such tactics, attackers have been forced to focus their powers carefully in order to make them effective on her.
On occasion, she has demonstrated the ability to shift her bones like a cat, intentionally dislocating joints in order to slip free from mechanical restraints.
Tigra possesses a mystical talisman that allows her to change her appearance from feline to human at will. She rarely uses it and only appears in her human form when circumstances require it.
Tigra is an experienced and formidable hand to hand combatant, with a unique fighting style that exploits her feline speed, agility, and instincts. Like all Avengers of her generation, she has sparred and trained extensively with Captain America. Her becoming human (which she always hated) was obviously a necessary plot device for Bendis and it was out of character because her senses would've made the sneak up on her impossible. And even given the fact that she had a quarter second to react once she did turn back should've been enough for her to recoup given her amazing levels of speed and strength. Given the info I have read, she should've beaten the Hood like a cheap rug. And I don't see why bendis wouldn't have researched every villain he has in an issue. that just makes not one bit of sense. If you're going to have fifteen villains in a panel, each one should have their own internal backstory as to why they're there. You may never reveal it to the reader, but the writer should know it. That's just good writing. Ask folks like Kurt Busiek or Alan Moore if they ever throw folks into a story without knowing exactly why they're there.
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Post by balok on Oct 13, 2007 14:01:32 GMT -5
bendisbites, your comments make me glad I'm still not reading this book. It seems like Bendis cannot be bothered to do even basic research. He can do okay, with even occasional flashes of brilliance, with his own characters (who have no backstory requiring tedious research) and the right kind of story (crime). Doc, I cannot agree that this is an editorial problem. I think it's incumbent on the writer to understand the characters about whom he will write. Sure, he doesn't need to know much if all he's going to do is toss 'em in as background in a big scene - but he needs to understand at a minimum whether it's logical for them to be there, and whether they're alive or not. Brubaker better send him a memo before he accidentally includes Cap in a story...
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 13, 2007 14:11:45 GMT -5
On Jinx the Bendites were trying to figure out all the villains involved. Dr. Demonicus? He was the main baddy in my old Shogun Warriors comic. Had his own Island, giant mutated monsters and a secret base any James Bond villain would be proud of. Why the hell is he with this Hood pinhead?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Oct 13, 2007 15:32:03 GMT -5
...he's a skrull...?
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 13, 2007 15:45:06 GMT -5
...he's a skrull...? oh... right. So how did The Hood know all this info on Tigra and her alter ego and where her mother was? Oh... skrull.... right.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Oct 13, 2007 16:35:42 GMT -5
Well, you've got to handle it to Quesada and his marauders: they suck at handling the Avengers but... What sheer genius...!!! What a coup...!!! Now all of them can include ANY number of dead people in their stories, write any number of individuals out of character and... it doesn't matter...!!! It all can be potentially explained away by turning them into skrulls... The plain and simple audacity of this makes me grudginly admire them, in spite of all else I might find objectionable about their handling of the MU... And I bet that no one will take more advantage of the situation than good ol' Bendis... In point of fact, it wouldn't surprise none if he would turn out to be the one who came up with the concept in the first place...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 13, 2007 16:58:24 GMT -5
...he's a skrull...? oh... right. So how did The Hood know all this info on Tigra and her alter ego and where her mother was? Oh... skrull.... right. Actually, that PARTICULAR thing is clearly a plot element, not some throaway thing. I'd wager either Skrulls or corruption in SHIELD, or both. But in that case, it's hardly fair- it's not like it's a convenient plot thing which will be retconned away quickly, it's very clearly a legitimate plot point- how exactly the Hood has this info.
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 13, 2007 19:01:15 GMT -5
Very true Doom. That the Hood was able to find her in human form (even though Bendis ignores the fact that she DOESN'T like being in her human form and used it as a plot device so the Hood could sneek up on her ) where did he get the info? Considering some of the villains at his meeting, his reach could be great indeed. The Mandrill, the Controller, I think i saw the Purple Man in there too. They could have operatives all over the Initiative, Shield, and who knows what else with out any need of Skrulls whatsoever. On the other hand, Hood is probly a dirty Skrull.
Anyway When did the Skrulls get their shape shifting powers back? Stern nerfed that racial abililty in Avengers Annual 14 back in '85.
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 13, 2007 19:02:46 GMT -5
It's like where's Waldo, how many villains can you name?
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Post by bendisbites on Oct 13, 2007 19:09:36 GMT -5
Very true Doom. That the Hood was able to find her in human form (even though Bendis ignores the fact that she DOESN'T like being in her human form and used it as a plot device so the Hood could sneek up on her ) where did he get the info? Considering some of the villains at his meeting, his reach could be great indeed. The Mandrill, the Controller, I think i saw the Purple Man in there too. They could have operatives all over the Initiative, Shield, and who knows what else with out any need of Skrulls whatsoever. On the other hand, Hood is probly a dirty Skrull. Anyway When did the Skrulls get their shape shifting powers back? Stern nerfed that racial abililty in Avengers Annual 14 back in '85. I think they got 'em back during Englehart's run on Silver Surfer...anyone up for a google run?
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 13, 2007 19:25:32 GMT -5
Too much work to look things up. So far I've been able to name these villains at the meeting. The art is bad and a lot of them are wearing normal clothes not to mention i've been out of the comic loop for a while.
Mentallo Crusader Manticore Tigershark Dr. Demonicus Armadillo Controller Ufoes Purple Man? Mr. Fear? Owl/Mr. Hyde Crossfire Nitro? Jigsaw Constrictor?
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Post by balok on Oct 13, 2007 20:17:05 GMT -5
It seems unlikely Nitro would be there. Last I heard he's enjoying Atlantean hospitality.
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Post by uberwolf on Oct 13, 2007 21:38:53 GMT -5
Seeing as how some of these guys are supposed to be dead, having Nitro there doesn't make any less sense. But it might not have been Nitro. Just a guy with long white hair. Besides, BENDIS! doesn't seem to care about any continuity aside from his own creations.
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Post by overlord on Oct 13, 2007 22:23:14 GMT -5
It seems unlikely Nitro would be there. Last I heard he's enjoying Atlantean hospitality. That's the Ghost Rider villain Blackout, not Nitro. Also to be fair in regards to some of the odd choices Bendis has made in his villains selection, that happens a lot in comics. Over at DC Black Adam, Zoom and Bizzaro were all members of Society, despite the fact their personalities would never allow them to join such groups. Also Joker was once a member of the Injustice gang. The having dead people on is weird though.
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