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Post by goldenfist on Aug 3, 2007 6:30:33 GMT -5
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Post by uberwolf on Aug 3, 2007 9:45:28 GMT -5
You know, I really don't like to hate the BENDIS!??, but his writing just feels like fingernails on a chalkboard. How anyone could take a potentially great story like this and make it look like it was written by a 3rd grader and get paid for it WITH great reviews is beyond me.
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Post by Tana Nile on Aug 3, 2007 10:00:08 GMT -5
There was a great opportunity to show what Cap really meant to Hawkeye there, and Bendis completely mischaracterizes him as some sort of bully drill instructor. Cap breaks Hawkeye's bow, punches him in the throat, and then kicks him while he's down?! Give me a break. Cap was pretty stern with the 'new' Avengers, especially when Hawkeye and Quicksilver were always questioning his leadership. But that's just going too far. And by the time Jan and Hank had returned to the team, much of that quarreling had already stopped. It just shows me once again how Bendis has no respect or understanding for the history of this team.
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Post by balok on Aug 3, 2007 10:47:53 GMT -5
God, I hate Leinil Yu's art. I'm sure he has his fans, but boy, count me not among them. While the characterization of Cap in that flashback did seem harsh, I have to disagree that is was disrespectful. I got the distinct impression that Hawkeye was realizing that what Cap said - that he'd thank him for it - was true. And that he now believes he won't have that chance. The dialogue could have been better, but that's always true of Bendis, whose mastery of dialogue is right up there with George Lucas, one of the legendary masters. In this scene, too, we see what happens when there is no leadership in a small group. Clearly this is the New Avengers' biggest problem, which also reflects on the absence of Cap. Someone needs to emerge as a leader, and darn soon. It's not going to be any of the people in that room. The most qualified in terms of sheer experience is probably - Doctor Strange. And he's not a leader sort of person. The book still looks like a bastard step-child of Marvel - a think created to throw a bone to readers who don't like the new direction. Except this bone is dry and brittle and has no marrow. |
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 3, 2007 11:19:51 GMT -5
I just want to throw in that while the lesson makes sense, I did find Cap to be acting out of character there myself. He was in full drill sergeant which I've seen used before but never thought was appropriate to Cap's character. Hell, what he does in that scene would remind me more of the Cap knock-offs used in Vietnam etc.
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 3, 2007 11:46:12 GMT -5
I checked out the preview, and...well, is it a surprise to anyone here that Bendis fundamentally misunderstands the "classic" Avengers? Anyone?
I'm on record as approving of a harder-core take on Cap, but that was just ridiculous.
It's a scene clearly meant to retroactively justify Bendis' putting Clint in the Ronin suit and using a sword instead of his bow. That's its only purpose. Even so it was hardly necessary to "reveal" posthumously that Cap was an *sshole. Good job, Bendis.
Have I already said that the art stinks? It really, really, really does. Looking at it, I suspect that Yu could actually do some decent work, but that he's trying for this "look" for whatever reason.
RSC
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Post by von Bek on Aug 3, 2007 13:03:41 GMT -5
That´s no Captain America. That´s not even Ultimate Cap. Ultimate Cap at least is shown putting his skills (and superserum) against people with (super)powers. That´s no Hawkeye either. This rookie is not the one who with only his bow and arrow fought Iron Man. Iron Man.
Not to beat a daed horse, but BENDIS! is the worse thing that ever happened to the Avengers. Everybody was turned into an @sshole, jerk, loser or retard.
It´s just disgusting...
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Post by von Bek on Aug 3, 2007 13:16:32 GMT -5
I'm on record as approving of a harder-core take on Cap, but that was just ridiculous. It's a scene clearly meant to retroactively justify Bendis' putting Clint in the Ronin suit and using a sword instead of his bow. That's its only purpose. Even so it was hardly necessary to "reveal" posthumously that Cap was an *sshole. Good job, Bendis. RSC Heh, I remeber you stating on another tread that you wanted the Cap-Hawkeye relationship to develop into a father-son relationship, RSC. Now thanks to BENDIS! if that ever happens it will be an abusive father-son relationship... |
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Post by goldenfist on Aug 3, 2007 16:43:56 GMT -5
At comic con Joe Quesada was asked if Spider-Man would ever
leave the New Avengers he said no.
Spidey has nowhere else to go he can't go back home to Mary
Jane cause he'll get chased by Iron Man and the rest of the Might
y Avengers.
Luke Cage is the leader but he can't seem to hold the team toget
her, I wonder if Cage will ask his buddy Iron Fist if he is a Skrull
but Cage and Iron Fist have been friends for years I just can't see
him asking Fist if he is Skrull.
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 3, 2007 23:35:32 GMT -5
At comic con Joe Quesada was asked if Spider-Man would ever leave the New Avengers he said no. And the reason? $pidey ha$ nowhere el$e to go he can't go back home to Mary Jane cau$e he'll get cha$ed by Iron Man and the re$t of the Might y Avenger$. RSC |
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Aug 6, 2007 12:22:44 GMT -5
I object to the militarization of the Avengers.
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Post by Tana Nile on Aug 7, 2007 11:17:47 GMT -5
I object to the militarization of the Avengers. That's a big problem for me too, BY. It's one of the outcomes of the civil war and really effects all registered heroes. I guess I would trust the average hero to put his powers to better use than I would the government. |
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Post by balok on Aug 7, 2007 11:41:40 GMT -5
I would trust the average villain more than I would trust the government. It's not here to help, no matter what it says.
Quesada effectively gets what he wants: Peter Parker without Mary Jane, without having to kill her. In a few years, when the last of us old guard has left, some sort of tragic event could be arranged to add her name to the fallen.
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Post by goldenfist on Aug 10, 2007 14:58:26 GMT -5
With Quesada at Marvel he will do anything to end the marriage.
Even Alex Ross doesn't like the Spider-Man/Mary Jane marriage
and there's alot more writers and artisit that don't like it.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 10, 2007 16:28:26 GMT -5
I find it hilarious that now the new EVIL is getting rid of MJ, even though her marriage was actually the sort of forward movement most of this forum would oppose if they had their current mindsets at the time.
If anything this is going BACK to the way it was in the old days!
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Post by balok on Aug 10, 2007 17:48:59 GMT -5
When Mary Jane married Spider-Man, it didn't make him less of a hero. Much of what transpired during Civil War corroded the heroic ideals that defined these characters, especially Tony.
I am not opposed to change. I am opposed to change that damages characters.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Aug 10, 2007 18:11:46 GMT -5
I would counter that Civil War simply further Marvel-ised them- giving them greater flaws, and making them more human,. than ever before. If anything, it makes the heroics even more pronounced since we know how flawed the individuals are. Because we've never had THIS argument before  |
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Post by spiderwasp on Aug 10, 2007 23:30:38 GMT -5
I find it hilarious that now the new EVIL is getting rid of MJ, even though her marriage was actually the sort of forward movement most of this forum would oppose if they had their current mindsets at the time. If anything this is going BACK to the way it was in the old days! Don't assume that those of us who are unhappy with the current direction of Marvel are unhappy just because we want things back to the way they were in the 60s and 70s. You've been given many reasons by many people on this board as to very specific reasons for dissatisfaction. To just ignore those and imply that we only want to go back in time is insulting. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling. Granted that view is subjective, and we can agree to disagree about what is and isn't bad storytelling but give us the respect of recognizing that we do still judge each story on an individual basis rather than just with a "That's not the way it was when Stan wrote it" state of mind. I would like to think that you do the same and don't just automatically say "Hey this is not the way it's been done in the past so it must be good" state of mind either. Oh, and regarding the preview (Thanks for that by the way, Goldenfist. I read #32 in Borders today just to see how it was and am still resolved not to resume buying it) - I certainly agree that Cap was acting out of character. Even if (And this is a big if) he would have talked to Clint, Wanda, and Pietro this way because they were new recruits, there's no way he would have addressed two founding members this way. I also am confused about the whole Skrull paranoia. Is this the first time Bendis thinks Skrulls have taken over someone in the MU? After Lyja impersonated Alicia Masters, Skrulls didn't take over everyone else. This reminds me of the argument used in #32 to keep Spidey from going to the media. People will just make fun of you for suggesting there are aliens? Don't you think that after years of seeing the Silver Surfer, Galactus, the Avengers surrender to Kang on television, multiple attacks by sea monsters under Namor's control or subterranian ones under the Mole Man's, or freakin' Howard the Duck walking through New York that they are ready to believe just about anything. The fact that they didn't believe in aliens back in the 30s hardly seemed relative. Finally, I couldn't agree more about the art. If Wolverine really is looking for evidence that some of his teammates are not who they appear to be, maybe he should start with the fact that they all suddenly have enough lines on their faces to make them look 80. |
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