|
Post by Van Plexico on Dec 20, 2006 22:22:06 GMT -5
I think this issue perfectly demonstrates both the best and the worst of what Bendis brings to comics.
Taken strictly on its own merits as a single comic book issue and story, in general, I thought it was sort of nice. But as an entire issue of AVENGERS, it's horrible.
Bendis excels at writing stories where two or three characters have deep conversations and glance meaningfully at one another, and then away. He's utterly awful at writing comics in which super-heroes do super-hero stuff.
His stories read like screenplays for art movies. That's fine and wonderful-- I like some movies like that. I've never blasted Bendis one little bit for being untalented. I just don't think his style (at which he is very good) remotely translates to this kind of comic book.
It's like having a Conan or Rocky or the Rock big-budget summer movie written by Alan Ball (American Beauty / Six Feet Under). And, as usual, Bendis's insistence on relying entirely on the artist to make everything clear to the reader, rather than providing even the tiniest amount of information via captions, etc... It makes for a more cinematic experience, but makes it much more difficult on the reader-- and particularly when the artist is not up to the task of making everything clear. I did like Maleev's art very much-- not for an AVENGERS comic, but for one in which basically two conversations occur, and that's it.
But I think Bendis asks too much of every artist he works with. And of the readers, too.
|
|
BigDuke
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 136
|
Post by BigDuke on Dec 21, 2006 9:28:14 GMT -5
I would, just once, like to see Bendis tell a complete story in the NA. Every arc of this mag has had some significant leftovers at the end of it. Now, leaving some open ends to be the start of a new arc later is one thing. But at some point those ends have to be tied up. This struck me as just another example of him stirring up a story and then leaving it hanging.
Considering that the art for this issue was previewed, can any of you say that you know anything more now that you have read the story than you knew after seeing the art? Let's review. Based on the art pages we know Hawkeye is alive, he finds Wanda, and they hook up. Now that we have read the story, what do we know? The same and that Wanda doesn't remember anything. whup dee doo
I think the Avengers has been infected by their crossover with that soap opera.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Dec 21, 2006 12:23:41 GMT -5
I'm all for great dialogue but I have yet to read one thing Bendis has ever done that is thought-provoking, original or even interesting. I am re-reading the Dark Knight returns right now and the dialogue in that is just mind-bogglingly good. Miller gave a whole new dimension to the Joker--making him more effeminate and scary at the same time. For instance, when the Joker goes on David Letterman the makeup guy asks him "Want more lipstick, sweet guy?" you know, implying that the Joker was gay--and the Joker just blows him off saying "No, I brought my own"--and of course the lipstick was his killer brand which he later uses to kill some guests. So in a two sentence exchange, Miller defined the Joker's character, defined how Joker was seen by people on the set, AND he also set up a sense of fore-shadowing. I have yet to see Bendis do anything remotely that interesting.
I read Alias and kind of liked it, but it was very slow and there was zero action. This is a problem with Marvel in general these days--little or no action. My friend Tom here at work came into my office a week ago and complained about how the latest issue of Black Panther was going to be stupid because the Panther couldn't begin to fight the Sub-Mariner. He was going off the cover only, which depicts the Panther fighting Namor. Of course, upon purchasing the issue, I discovered that there was no fight between the two--just endless talking. The cover was completely misleading. Issue after issue goes by and no action. Even at the Panther's wedding, there was exactly one punch thrown, off panel of course. Now back in the day, the Black Panther's wedding would have been crashed by the White Gorilla, Kang, Ultron, and Galactus--and a memorable battle would have ensued. These days you're lucky to get a play slap from Princess Python.
|
|
|
Post by Bored Yesterday on Dec 21, 2006 14:41:15 GMT -5
I look forward to the day when I read a summary of the current issue of Avengers and I can't wait to read it myself. On that day,l I'll return to the comic store and doubtlessly see what else I can add to the pull list.
Thanks for keeping me posted and saving me the traumatic disappointment of reading each of these abominations myself.
|
|
|
Post by Black Knight on Dec 21, 2006 16:36:25 GMT -5
I think what scares me the most, is that people are lapping this stuff up, heck they defending it, saying how amazingly great it is.
|
|
|
Post by Tana Nile on Dec 21, 2006 20:03:14 GMT -5
I looked this one over at the store. So, Hawkeye is alive. Wanda is apparently alive, living at Wundagore mountain. Assuming it really is her. But she doesn't know who she is. Or maybe she does and is being coy. And Agatha Harkness may be alive too. Or not. She might be hidden behind a door. Or not. But hey, the artist really did a great job emulating "The Kiss" (wish I could remember the name of the painter...). When are the real Avengers coming back?
|
|
|
Post by Van Plexico on Dec 21, 2006 22:15:44 GMT -5
I think this is my favorite line of the year. ;D
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Dec 22, 2006 10:11:52 GMT -5
you gotta laugh to keep from crying.
|
|
steed
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 215
|
Post by steed on Dec 22, 2006 12:39:03 GMT -5
I "read" this issue the other day (really not much to read). I thought the art was nice but not for the Avengers and there was absolutely no story there. It left me with more questions than answers and no motvation for what happens. In other words another great Bendis issue.
|
|
|
Post by henrypym on Dec 25, 2006 21:06:29 GMT -5
I looked this one over at the store. So, Hawkeye is alive. Wanda is apparently alive, living at Wundagore mountain. Assuming it really is her. But she doesn't know who she is. Or maybe she does and is being coy. And Agatha Harkness may be alive too. Or not. She might be hidden behind a door. Or not. But hey, the artist really did a great job emulating "The Kiss" (wish I could remember the name of the painter...). When are the real Avengers coming back? Gustav Klimt. I really liked the art in this. It just didn't look like a Marvel book.
|
|
|
Post by sharkar on Dec 25, 2006 22:16:39 GMT -5
Yes, Maleev channeled Klimt (as mentioned in the NA #26 spoiler thread)... but the cover also reminds me of Munch's "Madonna" (except that Wanda is clothed). Maleev's cover is that of woman as seductress...siren...succubus. Quite an- - interesting - -interpretation of Wanda...
As for the interior art: Maleev has gone on record as being critical of the issue's coloring; he was the colorist but he says that the digital program used "muted" the colors too much. To me, the muted tones lent this story the feel of a fairy tale or a dream.
I'm not familiar with Maleev's work but I will say this was different from what I usually see in comics. However in a few panels Wanda bears a resemblance to Angelina Jolie: the square jaw, the lips, the knowing eyes, the long straight hair (esp. the panel where she states her name, and in two panels on the next page. And is is too much to ask for page numbers??).
And I'm not sure if Maleev is an NFL fan but in many panels Clint looks like he's a blond version of Kurt Warner: the head shape, the stubble, the brows, etc. Well, Kurt and Clint are both from Iowa...
I do think Clint's breakdown was handled well pictorially (the panels where he's at the table and says "sniff").
Despite the similarities to Jolie and Warner, I liked the art overall; Maleev conveyed Clint's confusion and anguish, and portrayed Wanda as a fractured person.
As for the story...I'm at a loss. I've posted some thoughts about it on other boards so I'm sure I'll get to it here, too, but not much of it is positive.
|
|
|
Post by balok on Dec 27, 2006 19:23:56 GMT -5
I have ceased to purchase issues of Avengers, but I did borrow this issue from a friend - and... I'm glad I didn't purchase it.
As Van mentions, it's not a bad "lite" story if it's about two characters I don't care much about, but I didn't like it as an Avengers tale. While what happened to Wanda is entirely consistent with what has happened to her in the past, I felt Clint Barton was badly mischaracterized. And I'm not sure about the purpose of the Dr. Strange sequence beyond taking up panels. How did it really advance the story? Was it there to convince us this is really Clint, given what we learn about Wanda later?
Except for the fact that the Avengers are divided against each other now, failing to address the situation with Wanda would not only be a mistake, but a mistake they've already made in a certain sense.
At the end of the day this issue was exactly the sort of fare I have come to expect from Bendis. Nothing about it encourages me to purchase future issues in anticipation of better storytelling.
|
|
daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
|
Post by daned on Dec 31, 2006 23:18:21 GMT -5
Let's see:
It involves two non-active Avengers. At least one of them is confirmed as not wanting to be an Avenger. Art more appropriate for a noir-style comic. Pages upon pages of not much at all happening Plot points unresolved no fight And no #$%^$^ appearance of the Avengers
Yep, definitely another Bendis triumph
|
|
daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
|
Post by daned on Jan 1, 2007 0:29:02 GMT -5
Oh yeah. A major plot point provided by a non-Avenger. Can't forget that.
|
|
fatbob
Force Works-er
Posts: 27
|
Post by fatbob on Jan 8, 2007 9:46:10 GMT -5
I've only just read this and must agree with most of the points above, another triumphant Bendis! issue. No superheroics, no sign of an Avengers team, pages of people sitting around talking, and other pages of no dialogue, no thought balloons and we are supposed to work out what's happening by the less than thrilling art-so far, so typical Bendis. But then a new low. Clint Barton takes advantage of a mentally disturbed woman for his gratification. Isn't that at least morally reprehensible, at worst some sort of sex crime? Really really horrible. It amazes me that some people have been defending this elsewhere. And did I mention I hated the art?
|
|
|
Post by sharkar on Jan 8, 2007 19:47:12 GMT -5
No superheroics, no sign of an Avengers team, pages of people sitting around talking, and other pages of no dialogue, no thought balloons and we are supposed to work out what's happening by the less than thrilling art-so far Yes; basically, the whole story could have been gleaned from just the dialogue-less preview pages that were circulated a few weeks before the issue came out (Clint is alive and seeks Strange's advice, Clint and Wanda hook up). But then a new low. Clint Barton takes advantage of a mentally disturbed woman for his gratification. Isn't that at least morally reprehensible, at worst some sort of sex crime? Really really horrible. It amazes me that some people have been defending this elsewhere. That was my initial reaction, too; about their tryst, I posted over at the CBR board that "I'm a little surprised Clint would let this happen, given their friendship and his awareness of her mental state." But upon re-reading the issue, I think that Clint was not in his right mind either; he looked utterly confused, upset and anguished throughout their encounter, and he was presented as being in a pretty vulnerable state himself (at least, that's what I got from the artwork). I still think it was a questionable action, or reaction, on his part, though. The story did not add any new information or move the overall saga along- -except, possibly, if it results in Wanda giving birth to a human child or children.
|
|
|
Post by uberwolf on Jan 9, 2007 8:41:42 GMT -5
Just when I thought my opinion of BENDIS could get no lower.... ugh.
|
|
|
Post by muscleman11222 on Jan 25, 2007 0:06:08 GMT -5
Ok I am not gonna say this issue was the best at least Hawkeye is still alive. And note the Civil War is still taking place so unless you wanted another Civil War issue this was the best way to take us away from the War but at the same time keep us in the realm of the Avengers
|
|
daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
|
Post by daned on Jan 25, 2007 4:19:01 GMT -5
But, MM, He was dead, then alive, then dead then alive; that kinda thing kills any excitement for living state.
|
|
|
Post by dlw66 on Feb 14, 2007 18:55:06 GMT -5
As I've said before, I tend to let things pile up a bit before wading through it all. Given that we've had the past two days off school because of a bad snowstorm, I decided to (ugh!) go through the pile of NA that had accumulated. That would be #'s 21 (missed it at my shop the first time and got it on a re-order), and #'s 24-26 (I haven't picked up 27 yet -- but I'm not exactly looking forward to it given the conversation on its thread...).
First off, #21. Chaykin's art was so-so. The story actually had quite a bit of action in it and served to set up what has gone on in Civil War. Hank disappointed me -- re-read Avengers vol. I #28 to see his original thoughts on unmasking FOR HIS TEAMMATES, let alone the general public.
#24, the Sentry issue: Is Crystal not the biggest very *friendly* person in the MU these days??? I have not cared for the whole "the Sentry used to be the greatest hero but everyone forgot him" schtick since it began. I think it's a stupid idea that just allows them to retcon the entire 616. He and Crystal had a tryst back in the day after she cooled it with Johnny Storm?? Hel-lo!! Please go to my post on the Wedding of Crystal and Quicksilver on the Classic Avengers section. That doesn't seem to fit into continuity, does it? And why did Jae Lee get to create the new "iconic" look for the Inhumans in his miniseries a few years ago? Why is Black Bolt's look consistent, but everyone else has changed? I hate this...
#25, the Iron Man issue: very cool story. I actually liked it quite a bit. I thought the "disgruntled employee" thing was headline accurate, and interesting when applied to a Stark inventor. I thought this was one of Bendis' better issues. But I don't like Agent Hill...
#26, Hawkeye and Wanda: First off, I didn't care for Maleev's art. Just not my cup of tea. I've seen his DD and it's good. But this is the Avengers. We just need some nice, standard four-color art. Avant garde can stay in other books and be good there. I'll just echo some of the misgivings above. I thought the way Wanda was portrayed was excellently done. I just didn't think the love scene was necessary, although I agree with sharkar that Clint obviously wasn't in his right mind either. I'm sure this will be yet another dangling plot thread, as (unless I'm missing something) I dont' see Hawkeye or Wanda in any books coming out in the near future.
To repeat myself, I am not looking forward to #27...
|
|
|
Post by dlw66 on Feb 14, 2007 18:57:20 GMT -5
By the way, the site censor uses "very *friendly* person" in place of S_L*U-T...
|
|
|
Post by Tana Nile on Feb 14, 2007 19:22:42 GMT -5
By the way, the site censor uses "very *friendly* person" in place of S_L*U-T... I love the censor!! Makes me want to post the most obscene message I can just to see what it would be translated into!
|
|
daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
|
Post by daned on Feb 22, 2007 7:21:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I have to try this. One of Eric Cartman's rants to off Saddam in the South Park film:
DRIPPING girl thingy EATING SON OF A PIG- f**k**g CRACK sleeper!!! HAIRY thingy SLURPING MAGGOT f**k!!!! Tee hee.
I apologise in advance if I offend anyone.
|
|
|
Post by dlw66 on Feb 22, 2007 13:20:32 GMT -5
Yeah, tananile -- I think daned took care of it for you.
|
|
|
Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 23, 2007 2:58:31 GMT -5
I wonder... how one of Richard Pryor's old routines would be transformed by our good censor...?
|
|
|
Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 15, 2007 9:09:06 GMT -5
I notice a lot of people talking about Bendis not staying true to character I think Wanda is a good example of this as well. She was always very shy and reserved. Even without her memory she wouldn't be easy because her personality would still be there.
Now she's like the farmers daughter. Or the Wasp.
|
|
|
Post by balok on Mar 17, 2007 16:46:34 GMT -5
But then a new low. Clint Barton takes advantage of a mentally disturbed woman for his gratification. Isn't that at least morally reprehensible, at worst some sort of sex crime? Really really horrible. It amazes me that some people have been defending this elsewhere. Yeah, that bit of moral degeneracy was what I referred to above. Worse yet, they let something similar happen to Ms. Marvel back in the day. Admittedly, that was a retcon, but once the retcon occurred they knew Immortus had taken advantage of her and that they'd let it happen - one might think this would be a particularly sore spot for most Avengers, and something they wouldn't do themselves. But evidently, Bendis either doesn't know or doesn't care about that. What Clint did is morally equivalent to slipping a woman a Mickey and frog marching her semi-conscious out of the bar for sex - contemptible and not heroic.
|
|