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Post by thew40 on Jul 26, 2006 17:17:17 GMT -5
So, what did everyone think?
I enjoyed it. I liked Luke Cage's position in all this. Very average-man. I felt bad for he and Jess and the baby. Sad.
My biggest complaint is the art. Yu is probably one of my least favorite artists. I think this issue should have been handled by someone who would have been better suited for a more emotional tale.
~W~
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jul 28, 2006 4:20:21 GMT -5
My complaint is how utterly biased Bendis is towards the anti-registration side. He has Cage make all these arguments against Registration (totally implausible arguments- who the Hell is CAGE to lecture someone about selling out? YOU WERE A HERO FOR HIRE!) and Tony can't make any good comebacks. Plus he compares Registration to slavery which is totally ridiculous. Bendis seems to be making all his pet favourites against registration and portraying it as though it is obviously evil. More of a Civil War viewpoint than a New Avengers viewpoint. From a New Avengers viewpoint it was better than I am used to. I could complain that nothing much happened but this is a Bendis book, yeah?
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Post by bobc on Jul 28, 2006 8:22:14 GMT -5
you're not implying that Bendis is writing Luke Cage like he doesn't even know his history, are you? That is just crazy talk.
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Post by redstatecap on Jul 28, 2006 8:23:33 GMT -5
Didn't Marvel claim "neither side is wrong?" Is that happening? This story is a pile of garbage. It immediately morphed into yet another iteration of "corrupt evil US government picks on the poor heroes." Unfortunately some heroes are included in that.
RSC
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Post by bobc on Jul 28, 2006 9:24:49 GMT -5
I kind of like the premise of this, Red. I am in 100% agreement with you that this paranoid the-government-is-evil crapola has been stale for a decade now (I blame the X-Files--people these days think everything is a conspiracy), but I think Miller is handling Civil War pretty well. After all, being a superhero really IS totally illegal if you think about it. I haven't read NA and Bendis' take on the storyline but I'm sure it's as as deep as a wading pool.
Luke Cage comparing this registration act to slavery? Wow. Innovative.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jul 29, 2006 3:30:53 GMT -5
Depends.If you mean Civil War I totally disagree in every way. If you mean New Avengers I agree
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Post by spiderwasp on Jul 29, 2006 10:32:21 GMT -5
This was one of my favorite issues to date (Of course that bar isn't that high). I know I complained about nothing happening last issue that we hadn't already seen but there was so much more originality to Luke's thinking than to Falcon's or Yellowjacket's that it made up for the fact that we already knew which side he was on. Besides, the scene where he just sat in his house and waited for the attack and seeing how they handled Jessica and the baby was very interesting. As far as keeping things balanced, I don't think that's necessary for every single book, every single issue. It would get pretty boring to continually have the other side represented well every time a point is made. This issue focused on the down side to registration, just as Ms. Marvel's focusing on the up side. Balance can be achieved throughout the entire Civil War story without having to be achieved every time it is mentioned. Of course, I'll admit that it doesn't hurt that I'm totally on Cap's side. I can't believe I'm actually defending Bendis, but there it is. I thought this issue was very good.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Jul 29, 2006 15:20:50 GMT -5
I'm currently trapped under the tonnes of overused clichéd political banalities issue 22 dropped on me, call 911!
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Post by imperiusrex on Jul 29, 2006 18:22:31 GMT -5
I'm currently trapped under the tonnes of overused clichéd political banalities issue 22 dropped on me, call 911! heh. it's funny 'cause it's true. I kid. I kid.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jul 30, 2006 3:29:26 GMT -5
Spiderwasp- Well yeah, but they actually changed the entire Registration Act for this issue! It was originally stated that there was a grace period of a few days before they began to hunt heroes down, yet now they portray them as hunting them down STRAIGHT AWAY as of midnight? Plus Jessica Jones did NOT have to sign the act if she didn't want to keep being a hero- it is stated explicitly and everywhere that she does not.
This issue was more well-written than most, so it's a shame it is founded on rubbish and Bendis's biased interpretation of a law which I actually believe is right.
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Post by Black Knight on Jul 31, 2006 7:29:23 GMT -5
Spiderwasp- Well yeah, but they actually changed the entire Registration Act for this issue! It was originally stated that there was a grace period of a few days before they began to hunt heroes down, yet now they portray them as hunting them down STRAIGHT AWAY as of midnight? Plus Jessica Jones did NOT have to sign the act if she didn't want to keep being a hero- it is stated explicitly and everywhere that she does not. This issue was more well-written than most, so it's a shame it is founded on rubbish and Bendis's biased interpretation of a law which I actually believe is right. That is the problem this is probably one of Bendis's best written issues of NA, not saying a lot, since I think my 16 year old sister-n-law can write better then Bendis. Anyway, there is a decent fight scene and Bendis does has the hang of Cage, to bad that I have to agree with doc doom, since bendis totally change the law to fight his story. This is typical of Bendis's writing and one of the main reasons I dislike it. Don't like something about continuum change it to fit the story. Also all of Bendis's stories are about 5 steps behind CW, which lead to a kinda boring comic.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Aug 2, 2006 8:53:59 GMT -5
After all, being a superhero really IS totally illegal if you think about it. Would be just being a superhero illegal? I`d say many of their actions are illegal, (not only) therefore the registration act.
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Post by bobc on Aug 2, 2006 9:18:24 GMT -5
All of it is illegal from 1000 different angles. Wearing a mask in public, for one thing, is against the law--police don't enforce this law at Halloween but after that, you can get arrested for wearing a mask. Superheroes break lots of laws--they do breaking and entering, they search premises without search warrants, they attack and assault people, they are involved in property destruction, ect. Everytime the Thing, for instance, throws a tantrum and punches down a wall, he's destroying somebody's property.
The only superhero in the mainstream Marvel universe who was ever held resposible for his illegal activity, to the best of my recollection, has been the Sub Mariner.
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Post by balok on Aug 2, 2006 11:50:09 GMT -5
I liked the issue, but then as a staunch supporter of individual rights over state rights, I side with the anti-registration forces. That could have biased by view.
Working as a hero for money, voluntarily, isn't the same thing has working for the government without choice at all. Cage's dialogue was hyperbolic to be sure but his points weren't wrong: forcing someone to work for you whether they want to or not is slavery. In fact, it's the definition of slavery.
Was Bendis using Luke Cage as a mouthpiece for his own thoughts? Could be. But Cage's position on the matter makes sense for a lot of reasons (and yes, I *did* read Power Man and Iron Fist back in the day).
I'd have to say this issue was a pleasant surprise.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 3, 2006 14:58:41 GMT -5
All of it is illegal from 1000 different angles. Wearing a mask in public, for one thing, is against the law--police don't enforce this law at Halloween but after that, you can get arrested for wearing a mask. Superheroes break lots of laws--they do breaking and entering, they search premises without search warrants, they attack and assault people, they are involved in property destruction, ect. Everytime the Thing, for instance, throws a tantrum and punches down a wall, he's destroying somebody's property. It's interesting to note that in what the real court affairs that failed to make comics ilegal in seduction of the innocent et al, the current writers and fans subscribing the 'heroes are unreal and ilegal' vein so common these days might very well succeed. These days publishing a real old school superhero book seems indeed to be treated as ilegal, by editors, some writers, and some fans.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Aug 4, 2006 3:28:42 GMT -5
All of it is illegal from 1000 different angles. Wearing a mask in public, for one thing, is against the law--police don't enforce this law at Halloween but after that, you can get arrested for wearing a mask. Superheroes break lots of laws--they do breaking and entering, they search premises without search warrants, they attack and assault people, they are involved in property destruction, ect. Everytime the Thing, for instance, throws a tantrum and punches down a wall, he's destroying somebody's property. Don´t know if wearing a mask is in general illegal in other countries than the USA (though, I wouldn´t believe so). What I mean is they are illegal because of their actions (after all, wearing a mask is a action), not because they have special abilities etc. But that maybe a little fussy, I see your points and you´re right about them.
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Post by bobc on Aug 4, 2006 9:07:44 GMT -5
yeah but honestly the mask thing is the least of the legal issues facing them if superheroes were running around in the real world. At the same time, I kind of liked comics better when nobody worried about stuff like this--back in the 60's and 70's. It was a much more innocent time.
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