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Post by Van Plexico on Apr 26, 2006 17:18:04 GMT -5
Well, well. NEW AVENGERS #18. Not bad, Bendis. Not too shabby. Not a home run, or anything, but... The giant, space-wasting double splash pages were held to something of a minimum, at least for this book-- and even the one at the end was superior to the awful opening sequence two issues ago. (Yes, it has been three issues now, and we've had one villain arrive on the scene and watched him have one confrontation with the Avengers. Hrmm.) I was surprised at just how happy I was to see the Young Avengers turn up in this issue. Seeing them being waited on by Jarvis, who is dispensing Jarvisian wisdom (or something like that)... It was nice. I love that group. And, thinking back on it, I believe that's the main thing I like about the Young Avengers overall: their obvious love and devotion for one another. They are all so fiercely devoted to one another, with that blinding passion of youth... It stands in sharp contrast to the often-bickering and recriminating ways of the Avengers in times past, and sets them apart. I don't think I would have wanted the Young Avengers to be a carbon copy of the older group, and they're not. Yet still the dynamic works. Yay, Young Avengers. The Vision: Well. So I must, at long last, throw my hands up and admit defeat. The Vision, in whatever incarnation, in modern Marvel Comics, is essentially a robot. Not even an android, really, but just a robot. He has "internal hard drives" now. Okay. Fine. I give up. Though I would like a flashback story, somewhere along the line, that explains this. It could be called, "Synthezoid No More."That being said, it was nice to see him back in action, at least in some capacity. I liked the way he looked-- and I generally liked Deodato's work very much in this issue. Much more than Finch. I also think Deodato is better able to interpret Bendis's often apparently hard-to-interpret script instructions than Finch was. (See the script for ILLUMINATI to see what I mean.) Ms. Marvel: Leave it to Bendis to leave us a big cliffhanger about her situation at the end of the previous issue, and then have me (at least) wondering what the deal was, and would be, given her status quo in her own series... and then come back to it this month, raise it as an even bigger issue... and then wrap it up by having Carol simply ask, "What was the deal with that?" *sigh*.... (Just think if all writers were like Bendis. Just before Kang conquered the world, Galactus could show up, eat him, and vanish, and the Avengers could stand around and ask, "What was the deal with that?" The End! G'night, folks! Spider-Man: I haven't been reading any of his titles lately, so I have no clue whatsoever about the Stark-ish armor he's wearing, or why he's wearing it. I just sort of shrug and say, "Okay, he's in this suit-- whatever." I'm an Iron Man fan, so it's fine with me if Spidey wants to be Iron Spider or something. And I loved his smart-alec reply about the Spider-Mobile. That is definitely one thing Bendis excells at-- the smart-alec nature of Spidey. Having written ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN for so long, I'd expect him to have this part down, and he does. (Though he often leaves Peter remarkably one-note, which is a shame...) (And-- what was the Sky Captain reference, that I saw mentioned on the other thread here? I didn't catch it.) Iron Man: Well, that bit with the armor flying off was new. And I had no idea he had rocket thrusters in his crotch. Interesting addition there, Tony... though potentially unpleasant if they ever malfunctioned. (Of course, I'd also like a flashback comic that explains when/why Tony switched from "boot jets" (ie pull air in, shoot air out, fly without setting fire to everything below him) to freaking reaction-thruster rockets... I guess it just looks "cooler" on the page... And it gave me a nice joke line for SENTINELS vol. 2. www.plexico.net/sentinels Overall, a pretty good issue. If every issue was this "not bad," I'd think much more of Bendis's run. Alas...
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 26, 2006 19:38:39 GMT -5
And-- what was the Sky Captain reference, that I saw mentioned on the other thread here? I didn't catch it. Spider-Man is brought aboard the SHIELD Helicarrier, where Director Hill introduces herself. Spider-Man’s reaction: “No eyepatch?” One could easily see that as a lame comparison between Hill and her predecessor Nick Fury, and so I’ll explain. The explanation might be considered spoilerish for those poor souls among you who haven’t yet seen the movie, and so I’m going to surround it with a few mostly-blank lines. . . . . . . . . . . SPOILER ALERT! (for the movie Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow)In Sky Captain, the title character lands his plane on a secret British aircraft carrier that flies. Upon his arrival, he is met by the carrier’s commanding officer, a woman wearing an eyepatch. (This is the Angelina Jolie role.)
Of course, the original Sky Captain scene might have been an homage to SHIELD and its eyepatch-wearing Nick Fury in the first place!SPOILER ALERT CANCELLED.. . . . . . . . . .
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Post by spiderwasp on Apr 26, 2006 20:54:07 GMT -5
Okay, things are starting, just starting to get a little better. The fact that the New Avengers have called in Ms. Marvel and Vision is a step toward remembering that "Once An Avenger, Always An Avenger." I still don't like the big splash pages. I hate paying 3 bucks for a buck and being able to read in less than a minute which sometimes feels like the case with this trend. I know that a picture speaks a 1000 words but a picture with a 10-15 words still speaks more loudly to me.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 26, 2006 21:44:13 GMT -5
I know that a picture speaks a 1000 words but a picture with a 10-15 words still speaks more loudly to me. LOL! ;D
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 27, 2006 9:12:16 GMT -5
As usual I'm a couple of steps back here Is the "real" Vision back ? in his red body, with phasic powers, density control, heat vision etc ??
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 27, 2006 10:44:13 GMT -5
As usual I'm a couple of steps back here Is the "real" Vision back ? in his red body, with phasic powers, density control, heat vision etc ?? No it is the Vision from YA.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 27, 2006 20:32:39 GMT -5
As usual I'm a couple of steps back here Is the "real" Vision back ? in his red body, with phasic powers, density control, heat vision etc ?? No it is the Vision from YA. That’s true, but the Young Avengers’ Vision is rebuilt from the body of the old. More or less same body, but new (though not entirely different) personality (based on Iron Lad’s engrams).
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 28, 2006 7:50:03 GMT -5
No it is the Vision from YA. That’s true, but the Young Avengers’ Vision is rebuilt from the body of the old. More or less same body, but new (though not entirely different) personality (based on Iron Lad’s engrams). Its not built from the body of the old vision, it is Iron Lads armour, just redesigned to look like the vision that is why he has Iron Lads engrams. However, the reason he has the Vision powers is that Iron lad downloaded all the visions memories, so the armour now mimicks Visions abilities.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 28, 2006 8:42:17 GMT -5
All right. Does it have any of the Vision personality then ? And has there been any attempt to rebuild the "classic" Vision ?
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 28, 2006 8:54:44 GMT -5
All right. Does it have any of the Vision personality then ? And has there been any attempt to rebuild the "classic" Vision ? No, he has the visions memories, with the engrams of Iron Lad, as well, so his emotions are based on Iron Lad's now.
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Post by thew40 on Apr 28, 2006 14:21:52 GMT -5
I loved this issue. Probably the best issue to date. Good lines from Spidey, we finally get to see the Sentry in action, the Young Avengers, the new (!?) Vision, and all that. As far as Ms. Marvel's temporary Binary-powers only be touched on, I can understand the Avengers "we'll wait until after the current crisis" attitude. Whatever happened, obviously she has under control and they need to just concentrate on the bigger problem: Michael. VanPlexico, ain't ya being a little nit-picky about Iron Man's armor? Though I liked your crotch-rocket joke. ~W~
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 28, 2006 17:08:06 GMT -5
That’s true, but the Young Avengers’ Vision is rebuilt from the body of the old. More or less same body, but new (though not entirely different) personality (based on Iron Lad’s engrams). Its not built from the body of the old vision, it is Iron Lads armour, just redesigned to look like the vision that is why he has Iron Lads engrams. However, the reason he has the Vision powers is that Iron lad downloaded all the visions memories, so the armour now mimicks Visions abilities. Oops! I stand corrected. Thanks. Where I went wrong was that I had a strong memory-image of the full-page flashback panel in YA #2 in which the Iron Lad-to-be encountered the Vision’s “corpse”. But in that scene the Lad was simply downloading, not repairing or appropriating the hardware. The physical quasi-resurrection of the Vision took place in #4, and it “repurposes” the chronal armor, just as you described.
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Post by Black Knight on May 1, 2006 7:58:22 GMT -5
Well I finally got my copy of NA 18, and it was one of the best issue of the run. Here is the sad part it is not hard to top all the other issues in this run. This issue actually had some action and Spidey not acting like a teenager for once, but still the comic is moving very slowly, and why are we subjected to Daisy Johnson (aka Angelina Jolie). Would it not made more sense for Cap to call in Old Avengers. Oh well, once again we have Bendis using charaters that make no sense simple because they are pet charaters of his.
All in all I give this issue a C+.
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Post by dlw66 on May 1, 2006 8:53:42 GMT -5
I read this over the weekend. As stated above, best issue (of the 18!! -- 18!!). To be honest, it was the first issue I liked, and also as stated above, the bar was unfortunately not too high. The battles were good, and at least there seemed to be some superheroing going on. Cap's line about "we've never faced this before" (pardon me -- I don't have the book in front of me right now) was stupid. In 40+ years you'd think they've seen everything.
Art was good. I have no interest in the Sentry character -- this is one retcon I'm not digging. But, it was good that he got off his butt and did something. Spider-Man and Wolverine do not work for me in this title at all.
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Post by Van Plexico on May 1, 2006 16:53:01 GMT -5
One thing I failed to note about this issue:
I think it was the first issue where Sentry actually participated in battle with the Avengers.
After being on the covers since #1.
Wow.
(I was really hoping he'd never actually participate as a team member-- that would have been hilarious to look back on, years from now...) ;D
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 2, 2006 18:07:12 GMT -5
I assume this issue was not her debut. Who is she?
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Post by Black Knight on May 3, 2006 7:53:22 GMT -5
I assume this issue was not her debut. Who is she? She was created by Bendis in the Secret War limited series that took two years to complete. Just another of Bendis's pet charaters that he wants to make important.
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Post by Shiryu on May 3, 2006 8:27:59 GMT -5
Wonder if this makes it a landmark issue ;D
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Post by thew40 on May 3, 2006 17:54:09 GMT -5
She was created by Bendis in the Secret War limited series that took two years to complete. It took a year and a half to complete because of the style of art. The script was tweaked continually as the book came out as a result. What's wrong with that? Surely, any writer wants to make their characters important. ~W~
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Post by dlw66 on May 3, 2006 21:20:40 GMT -5
God bless you for liking Brian Bendis -- I know he's a capable writer on other characters. As many of us have said, we really like his Ultimate Spider-Man.
But my friend, I've been waiting your year and a half to get my Avengers back. I'm tired of waiting...
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 3, 2006 21:24:35 GMT -5
I assume this issue was not her debut. Who is she? She was created by Bendis in the Secret War limited series Oh, goodness. I actually read earlier issues of that comic. I’d pretty much blanked them out! Thanks for filling in the memory gap.
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Post by thew40 on May 3, 2006 22:31:30 GMT -5
But my friend, I've been waiting your year and a half to get my Avengers back. I'm tired of waiting... You've got over 40 years worth of comics behind you. You can't read those until the "your Avengers" come back? Can't you try to like what's being put out? I'll grant you that Bendis has more dialogue than action and the stories are running at snails pace, but what exactly is wrong with the book? Has he thrown out continunity? Has he said a certain event never happen and it did? Has he turned any of the characters into immoral beings? Busiek wanted to make Silverclaw and Triathilon important, so why can't Bendis make Jessica Jones and Daisy Johnson important? What is the crime in that? How does that hurt the book and the ideal situation that is "your Avengers?" I've explained my feelings and reasons over and over. I'm enjoying this book. Why can't anyone else? ~W~
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Post by Black Knight on May 4, 2006 7:39:33 GMT -5
But my friend, I've been waiting your year and a half to get my Avengers back. I'm tired of waiting... You've got over 40 years worth of comics behind you. You can't read those until the "your Avengers" come back? Can't you try to like what's being put out? I'll grant you that Bendis has more dialogue than action and the stories are running at snails pace, but what exactly is wrong with the book? Has he thrown out continunity? Has he said a certain event never happen and it did? Has he turned any of the characters into immoral beings? Busiek wanted to make Silverclaw and Triathilon important, so why can't Bendis make Jessica Jones and Daisy Johnson important? What is the crime in that? How does that hurt the book and the ideal situation that is "your Avengers?" I've explained my feelings and reasons over and over. I'm enjoying this book. Why can't anyone else? ~W~ Yes Bendis has thrown out continuum, to be blunt the SW did know about here children before Bendis got ahold of her, the story line happened several years before bendis, but because he wanted to use her to destroy the Avengers, he ignored it. Also, he ignored continuum in favor of saying that Chaos Magic never existed. Well that was a lot of issues of Dr. Strange down the drain where the only thing he was using was Chaos magic. There is such a thing as introducing to many of your pet charaters into a book. Busiak had four, Justice, Firestar, Trailthon, and Silverclaw. Over many, many years, they came and went in the group, silverclaw not lasting more then a few issues. In 18 issues you have Cage, Spiderwoman, and now Daisy Johnson introduced. Yes I think he is overduing it, and not making much sense in the process. Oh well I guess we just agree to disagree, it will not matter much in a few months as the NA team will be totally different. I stand by what I said above, but would like to apologize for the tone, if any offense is taken, none is meant. I am glad you enjoy NA, it certainly has its fans, it is just not for me.
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Post by dlw66 on May 4, 2006 7:40:08 GMT -5
Excellent rebuttal with Silverclaw and Triathlon -- pet characters. I didn't like them either, although Triathlon was more interesting. I felt like he could have caught on with me had Busiek kept the book a few years longer.
Time was, a character had to be around for awhile before being offered Avengers status. Sometimes recently it seems like they just show up and BAM! -- rostered, baby!
W -- I am trying really hard to like this New Avengers. I have spent whatever -- $3x18 issues. I am just saying that the return on my investment is not that great. The books take 5 minutes (or less!) to read, and to be honest I am one of the people who actually likes the summary on the front page, because the stories are not memorable enough that after 30 days of the rest of my life I can remember what happened in New Avengers four weeks earlier.
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Post by Black Knight on May 4, 2006 7:41:17 GMT -5
She was created by Bendis in the Secret War limited series that took two years to complete. It took a year and a half to complete because of the style of art. The script was tweaked continually as the book came out as a result. What's wrong with that? Surely, any writer wants to make their characters important. ~W~ Two years, or a year and half, both are far to long for a 5 issue limited series. I have one question, why in the world would Cap calling Daisy Johnson (a charater he has worked with once) over the multitude of Avengers that he could call in? It is vastly out of charater and makes no sense. But that is just my opinion.
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Post by von Bek on May 4, 2006 8:54:06 GMT -5
You've got over 40 years worth of comics behind you. You can't read those until the "your Avengers" come back? Can't you try to like what's being put out? I really tried to like NA, W. Believe me, I know that some fans who grew up with the 'old' Avengers think if it´s not the big three plus Hawkeye, SW, Pym and the Wasp is not the Avengers, but I´m not one of them. I was open minded to the new membership, in fact Spiderwoman (the real Spiderwoman, Jessica Drew) was one of my favourite characters, but the stories are so bad and inconsistent, I just don´t think they´re worth $ 3. Another thing that I find annoying is BMB lack of respect for characters that are not his pet ones, if he dídn´t like them ok, but no need to destroy them. Since you asked, bad characterization, plot holes, continuity flaws, waaay too much decompression. Yes, many times. Again, many times. Yes, Wanda was turned into a psycho, Hawkeye into an homicide and suicide, Jan into an drunken idiot, Hank into an jerk. Silverclaw was there to serve as catalisator for the Kulan Gath storyline and Thriatlon same thing with the Triune Understanding (sub)plot. I really don´t know what Jessica Jones and Daisy Johnson added to the book. Yeah, and one of the good things of havin´such debates is understand what the 'other side' thinks. So please let me know what your opinions on the things I described are.
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Post by Shiryu on May 4, 2006 9:00:14 GMT -5
Looks like 18 issues of NA have gone by and the debate is still open.
What can I say, a writer has every right to introduce characters he likes in the book he writes, and a reader has every right to dislike them.
If anything, I can add that, to respect the readers, introducing new characters and making them Avengers should make some sense, and be a slow, flowing process and not something nearly like "Hello, what's your name ? ok, you are an Avenger now". I have only read some reviews of the issue, so I may be saying a completely wrong thing, but Cap doesn't consider calling old, mainstays Avengers at all. It wouldn't have been that bad adding a line saying "I called the [...] but they declined membership because [...]. However, I think I know someone else who may be of help: Daisy Johnson"
Anyway, as I mentioned elsewhere, my problem with NA is not the membership, but the really slow pace at which things move.
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Post by Black Knight on May 4, 2006 10:38:12 GMT -5
Looks like 18 issues of NA have gone by and the debate is still open. What can I say, a writer has every right to introduce characters he likes in the book he writes, and a reader has every right to dislike them. If anything, I can add that, to respect the readers, introducing new characters and making them Avengers should make some sense, and be a slow, flowing process and not something nearly like "Hello, what's your name ? ok, you are an Avenger now". I have only read some reviews of the issue, so I may be saying a completely wrong thing, but Cap doesn't consider calling old, mainstays Avengers at all. It wouldn't have been that bad adding a line saying "I called the [...] but they declined membership because [...]. However, I think I know someone else who may be of help: Daisy Johnson" Anyway, as I mentioned elsewhere, my problem with NA is not the membership, but the really slow pace at which things move. And with one throw away line, bendis fixes a lot of problems, that was brought up a long time ago when the NA team first formed, and people where wondering why Cap would not invite back some old Avengers, one throw away line like you mentioned would have fixed the problem, but we never got it. Instead, we all just keep looking at the comic like slow motion train wreck.
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Post by thew40 on May 4, 2006 12:41:49 GMT -5
Ohhhhhhhh well.
I like the book. I like the dialogue, I like the set-ups, I like the art, and I like the stories.
The fact of the matter is: this isn't the same old Avengers. Disagree or agree, that is a fact. I just wish there was someone else here, on this board, that liked it as much as I do.
I like the roster, I enjoy the storylines. The pace could be quickened, but I've just come to accept the fact that it's a slow book.
I've said it elsewhere, but this book will change. The creative team will change, the line-up will change, all of it. But for now, it's the way it is and there's no use complaining. I've read far worse books (Austen's "Uncanny X-Men," being a fine example).
Question: Besides the "Chaos magic" and the "crazy Scarlet Witch" incidents, where else are there continunity glitches?
~W~
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Post by dlw66 on May 4, 2006 12:51:15 GMT -5
I don't know if this counts as a continuity glitch, but just some of the dialogue is silly. An example I used above (think it was in this thread) was when Cap says, in regard to Michael (which by the way would have been WAY COOLER if it had really turned out to be Korvac) "We've never faced anything like this before!" I'm paraphrasing, to be sure. Anyway, I just found it ignorant that in all these years Cap would say something like that.
Some of the banter is OK; some of it is annoying.
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