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Post by Yellowjacket on Apr 12, 2006 1:21:54 GMT -5
By the way, for what reasons did Geoff Johns quit writing the Avengers? I haven´t read anything from Johns before his Avengers run (I´ve got Vision [Vol. 2], but haven´t read it yet) and liked what he did so far. Certainly his stories were (imho by far) better than Chuck Austen`s, afterwards, of course, took Bendis over.
Was it right from Johns´ start clear that he was only a makeshift for Bendis?
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 12, 2006 9:59:29 GMT -5
I think things at DC were opening up left and right for Geoff Johns, and from what I've heard he's always been more of a DC loyalist (in terms of that's what he liked best when he was a kid -- DC's classic characters).
When Don Kramer was drawing JSA, Geoff would ask him if he knew how to depict such-and-such a villain. Don would research the 'net, look through my "Who's Who In the DC Universere" volumes and still couldn't come up with a visual. Finally Geoff would have to fax him an image -- xeroxed out of a Golden Age Justice Society Archives Edition!
He had that kind of appreciation for DC's history, and I think was going to get quite a bit of control there -- as we've seen with Green Lantern, Infinite Crisis, etc.
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 12, 2006 12:07:01 GMT -5
By the way, for what reasons did Geoff Johns quit writing the Avengers? I haven´t read anything from Johns before his Avengers run (I´ve got Vision [Vol. 2], but haven´t read it yet) and liked what he did so far. Certainly his stories were (imho by far) better than Chuck Austen`s, afterwards, of course, took Bendis over. Was it right from Johns´ start clear that he was only a makeshift for Bendis? dlw66 is mostly right, Johns was also having trouble with Marvel management because he did not like the new idea of decompressing stories to fit in trade paperbacks. Also around this time was when Marvel started pushing the story over continuum idea.
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Post by von Bek on Apr 12, 2006 12:38:20 GMT -5
Was it right from Johns´ start clear that he was only a makeshift for Bendis? No, Marvel hired Johns because he was a rising star at DC and Marvel wanted him to do with the Avengers more or less what he´d done with DC´s JSA, make the characters interesting again but at the same time paying attention to tradition. When Johns signed an exclusivity contract with DC Marvel tried a new take on classic Avengers with Chuck Austen, but sales went down and Mark Millar had this idea of turning the Avengers into Marvel´s JLA (the A-list characters together on a team).
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 13, 2006 9:08:48 GMT -5
Considering Austen run, I'm not surprised at all that sales went down. When was "Disassembled" planned then ? pretty much in the middle of Austen period ?
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 13, 2006 9:50:01 GMT -5
did sales drop? I thought they remained fairly static...
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 13, 2006 14:43:20 GMT -5
did sales drop? I thought they remained fairly static... Sales droped when Johns was finishing the Search for She-Hulk. Then they droped more after people realized how poor Austen's run was. I know for a fact that when Austen started his run disassembled was not planned so it had to happen around the middle.
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Post by The Natrix on Apr 25, 2006 16:48:43 GMT -5
I gotta throw my 2 cents in here...what is the problem with comic readers hating the "talky" issues? There has been plenty of "talky" writers and comics in the past...Bendis isn't the first, you know. AND...I thought the comics world imploded 10-15 years ago due to the fact that issues were all about fight scenes and pretty pictures...NO PLOT!!! So now when a guy like Bendis decides to write some words on his pages he is getting The Hate from everyone. What gives? Bottom line: Fanboys complain no matter what is given to them.
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Post by bobc on Apr 25, 2006 18:32:34 GMT -5
Oh for God's sake. Gee let's see--maybe it's not the number of words, Einstein, but the quality. There was a time in comics when there was lots of action, lots of characterization AND lots of plot. The simple sad truth here is that New Avengers is nothing more than a glossy marketing vehicle to get Spiderman and Wolverine in the same book, under the Avengers banner which sold well anyway. I really hate when posters like you dumb down very legitimate gripes over the handling of this title to "do you like lots of words or no words?"
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 26, 2006 9:11:37 GMT -5
Come on guys, let's not get over irritated. Every one has the right to post his own opinion in a civil manner, and every one has the right to agree or disagree on what has been posted
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2006 9:19:29 GMT -5
I would not say that the fanboys always complain -- there are mostly positive comments about the various Avengers series, as long as Liefeld and Bendis are excluded. Those two creators seem to be most of our posters' sticking points. Even though there are creative periods in the team's history I don't recall fondly (the bomber-jacket era being one), I got through them. Liefeld's brief run and the current direction Bendis has taken are just to me no good.
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 26, 2006 9:30:02 GMT -5
I gotta throw my 2 cents in here...what is the problem with comic readers hating the "talky" issues? There has been plenty of "talky" writers and comics in the past...Bendis isn't the first, you know. AND...I thought the comics world imploded 10-15 years ago due to the fact that issues were all about fight scenes and pretty pictures...NO PLOT!!! So now when a guy like Bendis decides to write some words on his pages he is getting The Hate from everyone. What gives? Bottom line: Fanboys complain no matter what is given to them. Unfortuantly there is not much plot in NA either. Also there is a large difference between "talky comics" that move the plot along and "talky comics" that are just pointless diaglogue. NA has a lot of the pointless dialogue. In fact you can cut out large chunks of that decompressed comic that would reduce 18 issues to 12 and still get all the same plot advancement and action we have gotten out of 18 issues.
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Post by von Bek on Apr 26, 2006 12:40:52 GMT -5
As I said on another post, there is plenty of action in NA too, but, like the dialogue and "talky" bits, is senseless and pointless, in a way very much like the 90´s comics that imploded the industry.
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 26, 2006 14:13:02 GMT -5
As I said on another post, there is plenty of action in NA too, but, like the dialogue and "talky" bits, is senseless and pointless, in a way very much like the 90´s comics that imploded the industry. Not trying to fight, but what action are you refering to. Perhaps you are talking about the action in breakout. Well that was about one issue of action out of 6 issues, if you compile all the action pages together. Or perhaps the action in the Sentry arc, well aside from the wrecker fight, it was all sort of in the background or off panel. Or may the Ronin arc, where the Avengers fought, ninjas. LOL Or perhaps when Alpha flight fought the collective, nope that happened off panel. I will admit there is some action in issue 18 but come one. A duck is a duck, and lack of action is lack of action. Again I am just supporting my point of view here.
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Post by von Bek on Apr 27, 2006 9:38:48 GMT -5
As I said on another post, there is plenty of action in NA too, but, like the dialogue and "talky" bits, is senseless and pointless, in a way very much like the 90´s comics that imploded the industry. Not trying to fight, but what action are you refering to. Perhaps you are talking about the action in breakout. Well that was about one issue of action out of 6 issues, if you compile all the action pages together. Or perhaps the action in the Sentry arc, well aside from the wrecker fight, it was all sort of in the background or off panel. Or may the Ronin arc, where the Avengers fought, ninjas. LOL Or perhaps when Alpha flight fought the collective, nope that happened off panel. I will admit there is some action in issue 18 but come one. A duck is a duck, and lack of action is lack of action. Again I am just supporting my point of view here. I´m not saying the action moves the story forward or it´s interesting in any way, but there is action. You listed some of it, and there is more (ninjas, fighting a big... well, monster in the Sentry arc, the Wrecker, the savage land mutates, the poitless Spiderwoman/Wolverine fight, Cage beating the Purple Man to a pulp). Again, the "action" is stupid and pointless, but there is action. Or we can agree to disagree.
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Post by Black Knight on Apr 27, 2006 9:43:07 GMT -5
Well yes there is some action, not a lot, but some, and yes it is totally pointless. So I guess we can pretty much agree.
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