|
Post by Marvel Boy on Jan 9, 2014 13:42:40 GMT -5
Okay, #1 by Hickman and Spencer.
The Avengers have returned from space and the world goes to heck.
Cap works with Maria Hill towards the group helping/assisting SHIELD more when needed when three crisis erupts across the globe: Natural disasters increase along the Eastern seaboard as a result of major events on AIM Island, a deadly secret is unearthed in Madripoor amongst civil riots, and the entire population of a Italian village vanishes, which may have connections to a City of the Dead. The team splits into three groups to grapple with these emerging disasters.
The writing team do a commendable job of balancing these events while building momentum and suspense (although I question whether Widow actually killed a rioter in Madripoor who was assaulting a woman. She shot him with her Sting but it looked to me as if the shot actually penetrated his head.)
Either way, I did enjoy this issue but again, questions arise to this title's necessity. These stories could have easily been fitted into the main title or perhaps even Avengers Assemble. But the intent here seems to be that the Avengers title will handle the main Hickman story arcs as a team while this title will afford, hopefully, all the characters a chance to shine more in units as they handle other events.
And I must add, Sam and Bobby's dialogue here was odd. Lately, the duo seem relegated to comic relief, which is a shame given their experience and power. (Sam has been quite the competent leader before, having been trained as such by Cable no less).
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jan 9, 2014 17:50:03 GMT -5
I agree about the barrage of Avengers books being unnecessary--unfortunately, the business side of Marvel always takes over when a hit movie (like Avengers) or character (like Wolverine) takes off. I am reading the book "Marvel Comics" right now and milking a book(s) is a well known cycle and it always leads to people getting turned off eventually. Right now, there are something like 20 Avengers titles, which is ridiculous. It's like playing your favorite song until you are really sick of it. I am a huge fan of Hickman's, but now there is just so much going on all over the place that nothing seems to really matter. I was looking forward to Sam and Bobby being sort of the young, fun element to the Avengers but they have been completely washed away in a sea of super heroes. "We need to get bigger" said Captain America. I disagree.
|
|
|
Post by wundagoreborn on Jan 10, 2014 15:08:51 GMT -5
It's like playing your favorite song until you are really sick of it. I just wish readers WOULD get sick of it. The glut of books should extinguish itself through lack of sales support. But I don't see any evidence of that coming soon. I'm voting with my wallet and have no Avengers on my pull list despite them being my favorite team and the reason I got into comics. I follow what's going on through podcasts and posts like this (gratitude to you, MB, please keep it up) and then see for myself when stuff hits the dollar bins. Sadly, I expect to be doing that for a LONG time.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jan 11, 2014 13:41:27 GMT -5
I just read a chapter in "Marvel" where one of the writers quit one of the X-Men books because there were (GASP) FIVE X-Men books getting published (I think this was mid 90's)--and she thought it was just a short term cash in that would ultimately be bad for the group. I remember stopping buying X-Men books for exactly that reason--there were so many mutants and so many books I just didn't care anymore (plus Claremont's writing, over time, got so cliched it drove me up the wall. If he wrote "She's as beautiful as she is deadly" or "A lioness is most dangerous when defending home and cub (some crap like that) one more time I was going to hurl myself off the nearest skyscraper). Imagine what this writer would have thought about today's 20 something Avengers titles along with a million solo books!
|
|
|
Post by tomspasic on Jan 12, 2014 0:59:02 GMT -5
I may well be mistaken, but I was under the impression that Avengers World #1 is in fact simply a renumbering of the Avengers title, so it's actually Avengers #21 or something? It was a mostly enjoyable issue, but setting up more huge long term threats seems odd since I can't remember how most of the existing long term threats got resolved (ie Incursions, Thanos, Builders, Map Makers, inter-reality bleed, White Event, Alephs, Bio-bombs, Inhumanity, etc etc). I mean, I vaguely recall some of these people getting punched a bit, and many, many 2-page Title, Credits and Roster pages, but given the sheer scale of all these threats not much seems to have happened now they are "all done". Enh. I should probably knuckle down and re-read the Hickman run from start to finish to refresh my faulty memory.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jan 12, 2014 10:39:35 GMT -5
Tom you're not forgetting anything. Almost none of the things you mentioned was resolved--except for Thanos. You forgot to include the bipolar albino girl Black Swan. She's been around since issue one and about all she does is spout gibberish, and when she's not spouting gibberish she's yelling at people for being too stupid to understand her gibberish.
Some great things have happened in this book but those things IMO seem lost amidst all the dangling plot lines. Is Terrax still sitting in that chair in the basement? Why doesn't Hickman tie these things up? It's been what? two years?
|
|
|
Post by Shiryu on Jan 12, 2014 13:46:07 GMT -5
I may well be mistaken, but I was under the impression that Avengers World #1 is in fact simply a renumbering of the Avengers title, so it's actually Avengers #21 or something? They are separate books, future solicitations list both Avengers World and Avengers, as well as New Avengers, Secret Avengers, Avengers AI, Avengers Assemble, Mighty Avengers and Uncanny Avengers (and some of these are bi-weekly). The only thing that changed is that Avengers is going from bi-weekly to monthly, so Avengers World is basically replacing the second issue, and that Young Avengers is over, for the time being. I'm not particularly bothered by the high number of Avengers titles, but Hickman's storytelling is still unnecessarily involuted and complicated.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jan 12, 2014 17:03:05 GMT -5
There's also Avengers Arena, A+X, Avengers Undercover, and Young Avengers, right? Unless some of these got cancelled.
I just went back and re-read (or at least skimmed) most of Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers to make sure I hadn't missed some plot resolutions and I hadn't. I think Hickman has done two things magnificently, two things I've been waiting years for someone to do:
1. He actually showed Captain American leading real, strategic missions instead of just bellowing 'Take them down!" CA always had this rep as being a great strategist, but until Hickman came along nobody actually showed him planning out a strategy. CA is clearly the leader of the Avengers now and he should be. There's still a lot of "Take him down," which is fine, but I like seeing CA use is troops in an orchestrated way.
2. Hickman finally made The Black Panther FORMIDABLE. But again, BP got his power up, what? three years ago now and yet we still don't know what it is exactly nor have we seen it in action. He beat Black Dwarf, a Hulk level threat, but it was done off panel, which was really frustrating. Anyway--love the changes but I think months and even years are too long to wait for a power up to be revealed.
Now that the Avengers have "gotten bigger," I find myself wondering why a team that has Hyperion, Thor, Captain Universe, Hulk, Smasher and some of Marvel's other biggest guns on it would possibly need Hawkeye, Black Widow or even Spiderman and Wolverine? Don't get me wrong, I like all those characters, but with Thor and Hyperion around, what menace could they face that wouldn't instantly vaporize the lesser powered Avengers? Back in the 80's, Thor complained he was as powerful as all his other team mates combined, and often acted as less than he truly was so as not to overshadow them. Now we have about a dozen Thor level guys running around. Are the lesser powered guys going to keep getting relegated to dullsville group fight scenes against flunkies, rather than taking on the real bad guys? I can't see that as being very interesting. In the latest New Avengers, as if things weren't convoluted enough, Hickman is introducing Avengers teams from various futures and I was like "ARRRRRG!!" TOO MUCH GOING ON!!!
|
|
|
Post by Shiryu on Jan 12, 2014 18:16:31 GMT -5
There's also Avengers Arena, A+X, Avengers Undercover, and Young Avengers, right? Unless some of these got cancelled. Arena ended about a month ago, Undercover will be its sequel. Young Avengers ended with issue #15 and A+X is slated to end next month.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jan 13, 2014 16:24:19 GMT -5
I see. Thanks for the info.
|
|
|
Post by spiderwasp on Jan 13, 2014 16:55:21 GMT -5
Just read the first issue. Not bad but I doubt that I'll stick with it for long just because Hickman's writing style is always so convoluted and rambling that I can't make any sense out of it. I followed this one okay but, if his usual pattern happens, the next will just seem like gobblygook to me. Also, it really is too many characters for one book.
I stopped reading the other Avengers title a while back so I don't know if any explanation has been given regarding Hyperion being on the team. I love the Squadron Supreme and would love to know what happened to them and to their world that led to this. Can anyone fill me in?
Also, to weigh in on the number of titles: I don't really mind if there are a lot of titles IF they are good. There are certainly enough Avengers to merit several books with several different teams. The problem, for me, is that there aren't several different teams. The characters from the movie are in too many different titles. If each book had its own separate identity and reason for existing, and the quality was high, I wouldn't mind a dozen titles (My wallet might mind but I wouldn't). As it stands now, there's a lot of clutter and very little quality.
Oh, and bobc, Avengers Arena, A+X, and Young Avengers are all gone. YA ended this month, thankfully. Maybe it can get another reboot. This one was awful. Never heard of Avengers Undercover.
|
|
|
Post by Shiryu on Jan 13, 2014 17:37:15 GMT -5
I stopped reading the other Avengers title a while back so I don't know if any explanation has been given regarding Hyperion being on the team. I love the Squadron Supreme and would love to know what happened to them and to their world that led to this. Can anyone fill me in? As far as I know, it's a different Hyperion altogether. Apparently, there are several According to Hickman: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(comics)#Marvel_NOW.21
|
|
|
Post by sharkar on Jan 13, 2014 20:24:18 GMT -5
In the latest New Avengers, as if things weren't convoluted enough, Hickman is introducing Avengers teams from various futures... Thanks for the info, bobc. Yeah, this got to be a bit much when Hickman was on the Fantastic Four. While I get that this (the notion of "various futures") is Hickman's pet theme/device, IMO after a while it became--as you so aptly put it--"ARRRRRG!!" TOO MUCH..!" ;D
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jan 14, 2014 9:35:14 GMT -5
I know whatcha mean, Sharky. In general I don't much care for alternate future storylines and think they should be done very infrequently. But in Hickman's case there are so many loose ends, why is he introducing more chaos? About a year ago, didn't Black Swan tell Terrax that something was going to happen with them "soon?" How soon is soon? And is the fight between Namor and Black Panther ever going to happen? Namor is doing a d**n thing of any import in regards to the incursions, and while the tension between BP and Namor is a great plot device, it really needs to move along. Hawkeye, Black Widow, Spiderwoman, Spiderman, Falcon, Wolverine, Cannonball and Sunspot haven't done much of anything during the entire run--in fact whole issues fly by where they never get a line of dialogue!
I still like Hickman but it's starting to remind me of the first two issues of Bendis' New Avengers--it got off to a flying start and then just nothing. All promises that are never fulfilled. SO far, the Avengers has been the Thor, Hyperion, and Hulk show.
|
|
|
Post by Marvel Boy on Jan 17, 2014 9:12:08 GMT -5
Judging by some of his other work (East of West, Pax Romana, Manhattan Projects, etc), alternate history seems to be a recurring theme or element in Hickman's work. Nothing wrong with that but if taken to extremes, it can induce quite the headache and confusion. Lack of resolution over some previous plot points is an issue for me. AW #1 teased a scene with the Origin bomb site in Canada, with Omega Flight and Validator. Their appearance earlier in Avengers is one of the better issues I enjoyed and I was looking forward to learning more of their fate after seeing this AW scene in previews. Yet sadly, no joy. I just hope that Hickman himself is able to keep track of these dangling plot threads. Also, to weigh in on the number of titles: I don't really mind if there are a lot of titles IF they are good. There are certainly enough Avengers to merit several books with several different teams. The problem, for me, is that there aren't several different teams. The characters from the movie are in too many different titles. If each book had its own separate identity and reason for existing, and the quality was high, I wouldn't mind a dozen titles (My wallet might mind but I wouldn't). As it stands now, there's a lot of clutter and very little quality. Totally agree. A solid identity for each team/title would help immensely. The only real distinction seems to be between the main Avengers team and UA's Unity Squad.
|
|
|
Post by Marvel Boy on Jan 25, 2014 12:36:56 GMT -5
AW #2 - we shift focus from three overall crisis to the events on AIM Island with Cannonball, Sunspot, and Smasher. Sam and Bobby have been captured while the AIM Scientist Supreme schemes to make Smasher his messenger to the outside world over what he sees as new and vital technologies humanity needs as given to AIM by the mysterious Entropic Man, apparently some new cosmic character. The Scientist Supreme's arguments to Izzy reflect back on her experiences with her grandfather and his death. In the end, she unwittingly becomes that messenger, with her costume being altered to STRONGLY resemble Yellowjacket's classic colors. As a spotlight issue on Smasher, this story was decent. I like Izzy and Hickman and Spencer do well in adding to her backstory. As for the events, once again, Hickman's thoughts are grand and I'm not sure where this plot is going. We may have to wait a bit and see since the next issue's focus will be on Shang-Chi (and I must say, about time ).
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Feb 2, 2014 13:37:07 GMT -5
I went to Austin Books last week and it was a sea of titles screaming "INHUMANITY" and I bought five of them. I have no clue how any of them fit together, what to read first (or second for that matter) but I do know this: I didn't think any of them was any good with the exception of the main book. "Inhumanity" didn't need to be 500 comics and I am starting to resent Marvel for trying to force me into buying tons of mediocre books.
Isn't New Avengers 14 late? Seems like it's been forever.
|
|
|
Post by spiderwasp on Feb 2, 2014 22:05:24 GMT -5
I went to Austin Books last week and it was a sea of titles screaming "INHUMANITY" and I bought five of them. I have no clue how any of them fit together, what to read first (or second for that matter) but I do know this: I didn't think any of them was any good with the exception of the main book. "Inhumanity" didn't need to be 500 comics and I am starting to resent Marvel for trying to force me into buying tons of mediocre books. . I'm with you. I've bought a few of the books too and it seems like an okay storyline. However, that's all it is; a storyline. It doesn't seem big enough to constitute the number of titles Marvel is using. But then, that seems to be the trend. I gave up long ago on trying to worry about being a completionist. Back in the 80s-90s, I would buy every title connected to what I was reading but Marvel has made that impossible.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Feb 3, 2014 15:47:18 GMT -5
For me it's not even about completing a set--I just have no idea what's going on except that apparently we are going to have tens of thousands of new super-powered characters. As if we need more.
|
|
|
Post by starfoxxx on Feb 4, 2014 17:17:14 GMT -5
For me it's not even about completing a set--I just have no idea what's going on except that apparently we are going to have tens of thousands of new super-powered characters. As if we need more. The most recent one that has got me "peeved" is the recreation of Ms Marvel---she's a teenager now, apparently. One day when I have some time I'd like to go through a current Marvel Previews and just point out what looks good (at this point I'm only buying Uncannny Avengers) and what looks bad, dumb, unnecessary, stupid, etc. It's pretty bleak these days for new comics.
|
|
|
Post by sharkar on Feb 7, 2014 15:08:34 GMT -5
I went to Austin Books last week and it was a sea of titles screaming "INHUMANITY" and I bought five of them. I have no clue how any of them fit together, what to read first (or second for that matter) but I do know this: I didn't think any of them was any good with the exception of the main book. "Inhumanity" didn't need to be 500 comics and I am starting to resent Marvel for trying to force me into buying tons of mediocre books. Ah, thanks for the reminder, bobc--I've been meaning to pick up Inhumanity #2 (the one with Medusa on the cover). Fwiw, I read Inhumanity #1...I found it pretty easy to follow, even though I have not read (nor do I have any desire to read) any of the associated tie-in titles. And I love the outdoorsy avatar!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Feb 7, 2014 16:48:24 GMT -5
Sharky--I'm a fossil hunter. That's me checking out a rock formation looking for 100 million old sea urchins. My Youtube channel is Noodleydoo if you ever get bored and want to see some cool fossil hunts. There's even a video of a 5 ft long gar (fish) slapping me across the face with its tail!
Starry I just bought New Avengers #14 and it was such a freakin' MESS I immediately threw it in the trash as soon as I was done reading it. All these alternate earths, alternate times, alternate characters--it is a disaster. On top of that, and three pages of recap, character lists, and introductions, we are treated to two pages of Reed Richards giving virtually the exact same speech he's already given 500 times ("Everything dies"). I am astonished at quickly this book has gone down the drain. I mean we GET IT--everything dies!!!! Then there is the same crappy, lazy art. This book sucks now. You are right--Uncanny Avengers is by far the best Avengers book. Marvel had better wise up because everybody I know is complaining about the absurd number of mediocre Avengers titles. I also hate how Ms. Marvel is handled now--and that horrible retro get-up she's wearing these days. What is going on?
|
|
|
Post by humanbelly on Feb 8, 2014 10:05:39 GMT -5
Sharky--I'm a fossil hunter. That's me checking out a rock formation looking for 100 million old sea urchins. I. . . I did not know that sea urchins had such an extended lifespan. . . ( Oh, I crack myself up-!) . . . And geeze-looweeze-- Bob, aren't gar some particularly bitey fish?? Like, that's what they're known for?? Goodness! HB
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Feb 8, 2014 14:25:07 GMT -5
I like to live dangerously, HB!!
|
|
|
Post by sharkar on Feb 11, 2014 13:16:10 GMT -5
Sharky--I'm a fossil hunter. That's me checking out a rock formation looking for 100 million old sea urchins. My Youtube channel is Noodleydoo if you ever get bored and want to see some cool fossil hunts. There's even a video of a 5 ft long gar (fish) slapping me across the face with its tail! Thanks, bobc--I was wondering what you were peering at so intently, but I didn't want to be too inquisitive ! I'll take a look at your YT channel, it sounds interesting!
|
|
|
Post by humanbelly on Feb 11, 2014 20:08:38 GMT -5
Sharky--I'm a fossil hunter. That's me checking out a rock formation looking for 100 million old sea urchins. My Youtube channel is Noodleydoo if you ever get bored and want to see some cool fossil hunts. There's even a video of a 5 ft long gar (fish) slapping me across the face with its tail! Thanks, bobc--I was wondering what you were peering at so intently, but I didn't want to be too inquisitive ! I'll take a look at your YT channel, it sounds interesting! I tell ya, Shar, I found myself yelling at the screen- "Bob!! Put that fish DOWN! Right NOW!! I can see those needley-pointed teeth from HERE!!!! AAAAAGH!!!" (Happily, I feel confident in reporting that our brave Bobc did indeed survive the encounter.) (Moreso, in fact, than his raccoon encounter that he relates a little later on. . . heh. . . HB
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Feb 12, 2014 15:43:15 GMT -5
Oh god--the raccoon incident.
|
|
|
Post by humanbelly on Feb 12, 2014 19:04:42 GMT -5
Oh god--the raccoon incident. I. . . I would be remiss if I didn't urge all friends here to look it up simply for the flabbergastingly inexplicable headgear alone. . . HB
|
|
|
Post by Marvel Boy on Feb 22, 2014 18:57:24 GMT -5
First, before I get to AW #3, a little background...... Many moons ago, when I first started reading comics, my mom helped by getting me a longbox of comics for Christmas. It was a store production product, containing a wide variety of Marvel, DC, and some Indie comics, all within plastic bags; basically a sample box for beginning readers. I can't recall all of the issues that came within that box (which I still have to this day and use for storage) but one issue that I do remember stands out very well: Wonderfully done by Mike Zeck, full of power, mystery and intrigue, I remember reading it and having no idea what was going on. Since then, I've loved Shang-Chi, slowly building up my MoKF run over the years. ..which brings us to AW #3, featuring a spotlight on Shang-Chi, facing off against the Gorgon, leader of the cult that has awoken the ancient dragon upon whose head the city of Mardipoor rests. (A very cool image of this as the dragon takes flight). Overall, the fight, which lasts the majority of the issue, is okay. I've never heard of the Gorgon before, apparently like his namesake, he can turn you to stone if you look at him, so Shang searches for advantages that would negate that ability. The two vie back and forth, Shang searching for the inner strength to overcome this foe (recalling some ancient Chinese legends and warriors to do so) but alas the fight does not end well for Shang, whose fate we will (apparently) to have to wait another few issues for to see. Two things bother me though about this fight: 1) Unless I missed it elsewhere, I still have no clue as to the nature and type of 'improvements' Tony gave Shang-Chi back when Shang first joined the team. It would be nice to know what is Shang's natural abilities and talents and what is 'juiced' up by Tony's tinkering. This leads into...... 2) I didn't care for the some of the moves/abilities that Shang used in this fight. At one point, the Gorgon literally throws Shang across the roof of the temple. Shang crashes into the roof yet gets up seemingly unfazed to any major degree. That stretches my disbelief to some degree. But I had the biggest issue with Shang harnessing energy (particularly fire) to enhance his punches. For all intents and purposes, they turned him into Ryu from Street Fighter II. I kept expecting Shang to shout 'Hiroken!' as he punched the Gorgon. That doesn't jibe with the natural flow and energy that Shang utilized and epitomized for so long under the pen of Doug Moench. I'm disappointed to a degree. So AW #3 had a decent battle.....I just didn't like how that battle was fought........
|
|
|
Post by Marvel Boy on Apr 22, 2014 23:01:38 GMT -5
SPOILERS BELOW!
AW #4......
This issue focuses on Starbrand. He, Hawkeye, Spider-Woman and Nightmask are investigating a City of the Dead in Italy when Starbrand starts hearing voices, voices that belong to the ghosts of his fellow students that he inadvertently slaughtered when he received his powers. He still blames himself for that act, trying to avoid the guilt of it, but the ghosts hold a powerful sway upon him due to that.
Meanwhile, Bruce wisely points out to Cap that despite having nearly 40 Avengers on tap, there's nary a magical/supernatural hero to be found amongst that number. Hence, for this mission, Hill calls upon Sebastian Druid (whom I assume is related to Doctor Druid). He recognizes the City of the Dead as a powerful spiritual trap, a haven for souls that haven't crossed over yet. But to control centuries worth of powerful trapped spirits requires major magic. As Starbrand discovers when the ghosts deliver him to the City's new master, Morgan Le Fey!
I'm starting to like this title better than the main Avengers title. Spencer's writing input is invaluable, helping to scale back the wild concepts of Hickman and helping to focus on the characterization of these individual Avengers. As here, we are able to see the lingering doubt and guilt Kevin has over the destruction of his high school and the death of his classmates. Can he rise above it in time? Have to wait and see.....
|
|