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Post by woodside on Oct 31, 2012 20:58:43 GMT -5
SPOILERS!
I was able to get a little caught up on some comics this week and managed to snag the two most recent issues of Avengers and the most recent issue of New Avengers. I actually stopped reading these titles for a while (after Siege and Avengers Prime), but I picked them up during AvsX and decided to go ahead and see the end of the Bendis Avengers era.
"New Avengers" seeks to wrap up the long-running "Sorcerer Supreme" arc that's been on-going since World War Hulk. The first part of this story was pretty bland and un-interesting, but Bendis' magic stuff never really clicked with me. It is satisfying to know that this will be wrapped up, though.
"Avengers," on the other hand, was amazing. Probably two of the best, most fun issues that Bendis has written. In a nutshell: the Avengers detect an emergency signal from the Microverse and Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and Giant-Man head down to figure out who sent it -- and it came from the Wasp! Who happens to be alive!
I know it does contradict some of the other post-Secret Invasion stories (this is a Bendis comic, of course), but since I didn't read them, it doesn't bother me. I LOVED the scene where Jan is reunited with the others. There's a great feeling of friendship and closeness that it actually reminded me of the early Busiek issues when these five were running the big, bloated team of Avengers and were working on trying to create a new line-up.
My only gripe is, honestly, that Jan had no real reaction to Cap being alive and well. Maybe Bendis forgot (shock), but the last time Jan was around, Bucky was Cap.
Speaking of Cap, Captain America # 19 was good. Tied up a loose end with the 50s Cap, but served as a bit of a love letter to Steve. Ed Brubaker, take a bow!
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Post by spiderwasp on Oct 31, 2012 21:38:16 GMT -5
SPOILERS! I was able to get a little caught up on some comics this week and managed to snag the two most recent issues of Avengers and the most recent issue of New Avengers. I actually stopped reading these titles for a while (after Siege and Avengers Prime), but I picked them up during AvsX and decided to go ahead and see the end of the Bendis Avengers era. "New Avengers" seeks to wrap up the long-running "Sorcerer Supreme" arc that's been on-going since World War Hulk. The first part of this story was pretty bland and un-interesting, but Bendis' magic stuff never really clicked with me. It is satisfying to know that this will be wrapped up, though. "Avengers," on the other hand, was amazing. Probably two of the best, most fun issues that Bendis has written. In a nutshell: the Avengers detect an emergency signal from the Microverse and Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and Giant-Man head down to figure out who sent it -- and it came from the Wasp! Who happens to be alive! I know it does contradict some of the other post-Secret Invasion stories (this is a Bendis comic, of course), but since I didn't read them, it doesn't bother me. I LOVED the scene where Jan is reunited with the others. There's a great feeling of friendship and closeness that it actually reminded me of the early Busiek issues when these five were running the big, bloated team of Avengers and were working on trying to create a new line-up. My only gripe is, honestly, that Jan had no real reaction to Cap being alive and well. Maybe Bendis forgot (shock), but the last time Jan was around, Bucky was Cap. Speaking of Cap, Captain America # 19 was good. Tied up a loose end with the 50s Cap, but served as a bit of a love letter to Steve. Ed Brubaker, take a bow! I'm actually glad you provided this spoiler. Obviously I love the Wasp and have been eagerly awaiting her return but didn't know it happened since I have sworn off all Bendis titles. I was hoping it would come after he left so I wouldn't be reluctant to buy it but at least it happened at the end so I can buy any upcoming appearances. Is she the same as she was before or have there been any changes? (Powers, appearance, etc.) |
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Post by woodside on Oct 31, 2012 21:53:24 GMT -5
There hasn't been a lot of elaboration in terms of powers, but she's definitely not gone to "the dark side" -- ie. all angst and drama. She looks as hot as ever.  |
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 1, 2012 5:34:50 GMT -5
There hasn't been a lot of elaboration in terms of powers, but she's definitely not gone to "the dark side" -- ie. all angst and drama. She looks as hot as ever. *Sigh* And here I was, counting on the return of the classic "Insect Mutate Jan". . .  (Hyar-hyar-hyar-hyar!!!) HB |
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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 9, 2012 7:22:58 GMT -5
More Spoilers
Okay, so I broke down and bought this, despite Bendis, because of my love for the Wasp. All in all, it really wasn't bad. I actually started getting kind of excited. The Scarlet Witch is back to being a hero (Not reflected in this book but true nonetheless), the real Vision is back, the Wasp is not dead, Hank Pym is not being regarded as a joke or complete loser, and a bonus that I hadn't heard about happened in this book - Wonderman is trying to patch things up which means it looks like he is on his way back to being a hero as well. Combine this with Bendis leaving and I had this wonderful feeling that some of what made the Avengers great might be returning.
THEN, I saw the ad for Hickman's upcoming Avengers which includes the tag line "Expanding their roster" and includes Cannonball in the picure as well as a couple of people I don't recognize. WHY? Most of the MU is already on the team, the classic members are returning, there's already another book featuring a combination of Avengers/X-Men - Why in God's name does this book need to focus on new members? I'm still trying to remain optimistic but my bubble did deflate a little.
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 9, 2012 8:58:51 GMT -5
More Spoilers Okay, so I broke down and bought this, despite Bendis, because of my love for the Wasp. All in all, it really wasn't bad. I actually started getting kind of excited. The Scarlet Witch is back to being a hero (Not reflected in this book but true nonetheless), the real Vision is back, the Wasp is not dead, Hank Pym is not being regarded as a joke or complete loser, and a bonus that I hadn't heard about happened in this book - Wonderman is trying to patch things up which means it looks like he is on his way back to being a hero as well. Combine this with Bendis leaving and I had this wonderful feeling that some of what made the Avengers great might be returning. THEN, I saw the ad for Hickman's upcoming Avengers which includes the tag line "Expanding their roster" and includes Cannonball in the picure as well as a couple of people I don't recognize. WHY? Most of the MU is already on the team, the classic members are returning, there's already another book featuring a combination of Avengers/X-Men - Why in God's name does this book need to focus on new members? I'm still trying to remain optimistic but my bubble did deflate a little. Well. . . except. . . . . . except. . . the last too-many years (7? 8? 10???) not-withstanding, the long-time convention for the team after a major upheaval, with the "Old Order Changeth"-ing and all, was to keep a cadre of stalwarts and/or beloved alumni, coupled with bringing in a couple of new, fresh faces. Heck, more than a couple sometimes (Cap's Kooky Quartet, of course, being the big-time precedent-setter, here). It might be hard to tell, as we're still caught in the chaos and mire of this nearly-ended (hopefully) era, but this really may prove to be a return to form. I have to say, SW, that you've convinced me to go and pick up this issue. . . ! And heck, Sam Guthrie? I'm pretty sure that somewhere back in the history of this very board- in one of those "Which Character w/out Their Own Book Should Be an Avenger?"-type threads, young Sam popped up more than once as a very likely candidate. I'm pretty sure I chimed in on his behalf at some point, even. Unless he's changed drastically since his New Mutant/X-Factor days, he's one of the most personable and likeable heroes out there. I would have recruited him for the team-! Heck, if he were real, I'd hire him to be on my OWN crews! No, as odd as it sounds, you almost have to be careful not to disqualify him on the grounds of X-saturation alone. Look to the person first (which means you bounce Wolverine immediately. . . ). Hmm. Y'know, the Avengers at this point probably could field an entire squad of Good Decent Folks-type heroes. Stable, bright, moral, personable, likable-- w/out a ton of angst-y personal baggage (or they at least carry that baggage very well). I'm thinking-- Cannonball, Quasar, Photon (Monica), Invisible Woman, Firebird, Scott Lang, Beast, Martinex-- and possibly adding Triton of the Inhumans as a new member. You really could add Spidey to that, too, in spite of his perpetually disastrous personal life. Aaaaand yet, even as I look that very list over, I'm afraid that the fist word that comes to mind is. . . "Zzzzzzzzzz". Yep-- man, that's too bad. Conflict, of course, is the heart of drama-- and inner conflict always trumps external for riveting, invested story-telling. And there might not be a wealth of inner conflict to be easily plumbed w/ this group. I wonder. . . I wonder if that's what kept the original Justice League of America from ever quite reaching the heights one might have expected? Ah, but enough of the multiple-tangent thread-jacking. . . I'll hold here. Thanks for speaking-up, SW-- it was awfully quiet 'round here! HB |
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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 10, 2012 22:41:02 GMT -5
HB, I agree that "The Old Order Changeth" has always been important for the Avengers and every writer has certain people they bring in that are new to the team. However, in just the last few years, additions to the Avengers have included Wolverine, Luke Cage, Spiderwoman, Dr. Strange, Sentry, Iron Fist, Ares, a new Ant-man, Valkyrie, Brother Voodoo, Speedball, Ronin, Red Hulk, Storm, Gambit, Rogue, all of the Young Avengers, and the graduates of both the Academy and Initiative programs. I'm sure I've left some off or confused someone since I haven't read most of this. Does it really seem to make sense to start the new focus by saying "Expanding Their Roster?" Too me, it's lazy writing to just keep reforming the team and adding new member rather than go into some depth with the characters that are already there. I've already seen Hickman overcrowd the FF books and make everything way too complicated and confusing. I just hope this isn't a sign of a repeat performance. I can easily see him focusing on three characters in January, two different ones in a different storyline in February, four different ones in March, and yet again more in April, before returning in May to the first group.
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 11, 2012 9:45:21 GMT -5
I re-read your post on this from a couple of days ago, SW, and yeah, I'll admit that you do have good reason for concern. I kind of stuck on the fact that I like Cannonball as a potential Avenger quite a lot, and didn't take in the entirety of the rest of your points. Hickman is indeed worrisome, as his tenure on FF is what led me to finally drop that title. And seeing characters you don't recognize does of course suggest the creation of new, "pet" characters (a more miss-than-hit Avengers tradition, I'm afraid). Almost by definition, a brand new character couldn't meet the titular qualification of being one of "Earth's Mightiest Heroes"--- they haven't done anything to earn that distinction yet.
As to the ridiculous number of folks who are now considered Official Avengers (in one iteration or another). . . well, I suppose that can of worms can't be shoved back into Pandora's Box (or something like that-- perhaps a third metaphor can be jammed into that mix. . . rather appropriately, I dare say. . . ). At least there's the potential to somehow fix it bureaucratically, with an official reorganization, down-sizing, and perhaps a re-defining of official status levels. I mean, that problem really started with the oddball, sort-of-associate status of the original Guardians of the Galaxy. So maybe the grander organization is boosted by a scores-strong (could it be as many as a hundred now?) base of Auxiliary or Associate members? Where these willing and interested individuals serve as a sort of National Guard in the Avengers realm?
Hmm. Is that how the Initiative was supposed to function? I never read any of that series--- but w/out the compulsory-service angle, that seems like it wouldn't be a bad model at all.
We've already seen another attempt at solving a similar population-explosion problem when the number of Mutants & X-Folks in the MU grew beyond all reason and practicality as Marvel continuously milked that cash-cow during that genre's decades of wild popularity. Twice, in fact. First, they KILLED a ton of them with. . .the Legacy virus, was it? And then a bit later, didn't Marvel strip all but about 100 or so Mutants of their powers? Wasn't that a result of the House of M thingy? (Again, didn't buy it.). Personally, I think both of those methods are dreadful ways of dealing with a cumbersome population of characters. Slash & burn/Pyrhic solutions. If nothing else, just let all of the unused, unneeded heroes drift out of any spotlight at all, and let them lead quiet lives until a writer calls on them again. I actually LIKE seeing that happen, as it's something that makes the MU reflect the real world.
Agh-- talking overlong yet again--
HB
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Post by Marvel Boy on Nov 12, 2012 23:44:41 GMT -5
Hickman is indeed worrisome, as his tenure on FF is what led me to finally drop that title. Really? Would you elaborate further? I've always heard that Hickman has had the best FF run since Byrne but that he tended to have multiple plot lines that somehow or another managed to play out to a close by the end. We've already seen another attempt at solving a similar population-explosion problem when the number of Mutants & X-Folks in the MU grew beyond all reason and practicality as Marvel continuously milked that cash-cow during that genre's decades of wild popularity. Twice, in fact. First, they KILLED a ton of them with. . .the Legacy virus, was it? And then a bit later, didn't Marvel strip all but about 100 or so Mutants of their powers? Wasn't that a result of the House of M thingy? (Again, didn't buy it.). Personally, I think both of those methods are dreadful ways of dealing with a cumbersome population of characters. Slash & burn/Pyrhic solutions. If nothing else, just let all of the unused, unneeded heroes drift out of any spotlight at all, and let them lead quiet lives until a writer calls on them again. I actually LIKE seeing that happen, as it's something that makes the MU reflect the real world. Agh-- talking overlong yet again-- HB The problem back then was instead of forming an interesting origin for a new super-powered character, that character would just be a mutant. Simple, but also a cheap way out. Thus, Marvel's decision to lay waste to mutants by having Wanda hex them out of existence (House of M). It made mutants unique again and also in danger of extinction as there were only 198 mutants left in the world. (How or why these select few escaped Wanda's hex, I can't recall at the moment) As for Hickman expanding the roster, from what I read of his interviews, his intention is that the Avengers are the greatest team on the planet, thus they should face the greatest threats. More members help them do this as well as expanding the global make-up of the team. I think this is a left-over result of the Initiative. Due to AVX, mutants are becoming more mainstream and accepted or at least Cap and Co. are trying to present them as such. Marvel is downplaying the old adage of human fear and resentment of mutants. As for Cannonball, I like Sam, as I do for the rest of the New Mutants. Cable had trained him as a very capable leader (in their days in X-Force) and if you think about it, a dangling plot thread that is hardly ever mentioned these days but no one has ever dismissed since the 90s, Sam is immortal. Glad to hear that Jan is back. Hope her spirit of heart and passion hasn't been affected too much by whatever has happened to her. But they are still dealing with 'Sorcerer Supreme'? That's just one of the reasons why I never could get into New Avengers. Though darn it woodside, you now make me want to read a Bendis Avengers book. May have to check this out now. |
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 14, 2012 9:11:21 GMT -5
[ As for Cannonball, if you think about it, a dangling plot thread that is hardly ever mentioned these days but no one has ever dismissed since the 90s, Sam is immortal. . Wh-wh-what?? He is? Man, you drop a title for 10 or 15 years, and this is the kind of stuff that happens. . . HB |
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Post by tomspasic on Nov 14, 2012 9:51:48 GMT -5
[ As for Cannonball, if you think about it, a dangling plot thread that is hardly ever mentioned these days but no one has ever dismissed since the 90s, Sam is immortal. . Wh-wh-what?? He is? Man, you drop a title for 10 or 15 years, and this is the kind of stuff that happens. . . HB Yeah, he was an "External" I think it was. A special sub-group of mutants who were eternal. Can't remember who else was, or what happened. |
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Post by woodside on Nov 14, 2012 19:56:06 GMT -5
Sam's status as immortal has yet to be addressed since introduced back in the early pages of X-Force. If you check out UncannyX-men.net, they've got some more information about it.
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 14, 2012 20:03:38 GMT -5
Hickman is indeed worrisome, as his tenure on FF is what led me to finally drop that title. Really? Would you elaborate further? I've always heard that Hickman has had the best FF run since Byrne but that he tended to have multiple plot lines that somehow or another managed to play out to a close by the end. Ah- another waitin' for dance class night. Let me tag back on a couple of things where I can ('cause lord KNOWS I don't talk enough ALREADY!). I haven't entirely thought through why Hickman's run drove me off-- or at least soured me on the FF. Johnny's death, in fact, was my final, final straw- and I don't even remember if that was still Hickman- but I had stopped following closely loooooong before that. It started right off with a thud, of course, because Civil War had just resolved, and somehow Reed and Sue were lovingly working their differences out in the immediate aftermath-- when last I remembered, she had left in a righteous (and justified) wrath. Reed and the Illumes did some awful, awful things. Truly unforgivable things, as far as I'm concerned, which Sue was keenly aware of. I admired her courage in standing up to this misguided genius, and leaving him when the situation was untenable. Aaaaaand I have know idea how or why that all seemed to become okay. . . little more than a misunderstanding between them. I may be exaggerating, mind you. But their whole quick reconciliation played so false to me that I was immediately distanced from these characters. And rather than being involved in their stories from that point on, I felt that I was watching their stories, which is a different experience entirely. A semi-engaged spectator, at best. So Reed's whole inner conflict & turmoil with that early Solve Everything (was that it?) storyline was a step back in the wrong direction, because here he was going right back to being deceptive & duplicitous & engaging in VERY questionable actions. . . just like in Civil War. . . just like when he "became" Doom. . . just like when he took over Latveria. . . etc, etc.--- except this time I had no sympathy left for him as a person. He's kind of an idiot, even. Didn't like how the kids were written-- never bought it at all. WAY too much convoluted time-hopping. . . sick of alternate futures, dimensions, and realities. Never followed the whole Old Sue arc. The storylines were far too murky and complex to sustain themselves as a monthly book. Every time it came in the mail, my first reaction was, "Wait, what the flip is goin' on here, again??" Although I wasn't outright, actively disliking (or even hating) it as much as I was the Avengers titles at that point, the book was an unquestionable chore to try to read. . . not a pleasure or happy diversion at all. Sooooo, when the subscription ended the issue after Johnny's demise, I didn't renew it. For the first time since 1981, I believe. And there's my unedited, stream-of-consciousness tale-! HB |
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 14, 2012 22:35:57 GMT -5
Count me in among those disappointed by Hickman on Fantastic Four and FF. It was just SO boring.
It probably reads better in TPB form, but I couldn't get into it at all, some ideas seemed good (I liked the Council of Reeds for example), but I was constantly disappointed by the pace of the execution, and confused by everything that was going on with time-travelling, various kids and alternate/future versions of the characters.
I did however like Hickman's Uncanny Avengers #1, so I will give it a go, and probably read the main Avengers book too. Not very keen on the new New Avengers lineup though.
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Post by woodside on Nov 17, 2012 17:04:39 GMT -5
Um . . . Hickman didn't write Uncanny Avengers. It was Rick Remender. Sorry.
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