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Post by humanbelly on Aug 27, 2012 10:04:49 GMT -5
I first discovered the Avengers with #161. The beginning of the Bride of Ultron story, the cover with those ants crawling all over the Avengers (still etched in my brain) and the George Perez art. How could I not be hooked after that?? Oh, good issue, Ultron, good issue. . . Ha! And like Starfoxxx, look who you've avatarred yourself after-! That's another solid story that draws the reader in with its sense of previous history, rather than intimidate the reader & drive him/her away with it. And I loved the fact that we get to see a heroic (albeit addle-minded and misguided) Ant-Man Hank as a serious force to be contended with as he manages to pretty much neutralize the entire team in a combat situation. Don't sell the Power of the Ant-Man short! HB
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 27, 2012 19:33:09 GMT -5
Thanks CC. And it occurred to me that it is the HEIGHT of sedentary laziness for me to sit here and ask a guy several thousand miles (and an ocean) away to answer a question that I was able to find out for myself by taking the trouble to go downstairs and look in Box 25 and pull out the TPB itself. Good grief, "Ugly American" indeed. The story does indeed span Moore & Delano's tenures. Starts in MIGHTY WORLD OF MARVEL 14, 7/84-- and ends in CAPTAIN BRITAIN #6, 6/85. I do apologize for my lamitudeness. . . back to our regular thread. . . HB It's no hassle at all. You should really check out the Alan Moore stuff some time. Regarding Al Milgrom and Joe Sinnott. I'm not a fan of that artwork, either in The Avengers or WCA, but I suspect part of the problem is that Sinnott just doesn't suit Milgrom, indeed I'm not sure anyone but himself does. Sinnott in particular seems to me to be someone who is good for some artists but really damaging for others. John Byrne is someone I've seen him really mess up -making the art look plasticy and shallow. In Avengers Annual 23 Milgrom inks his own work in the story 'Master of his own Destiny' and the results are far more impressive IMO. Unfortunately it seems to be one off and in most of his work, like Ron Frenz, he comes over as a second rate Jack Kirby. Whoops, and I still misread the credits. It is indeed the arc that starts with Delano-- right after Moore's run. And goes about another year past the issue I cited (didn't turn the last page, there). I tell ya, CC, you and I do seem to have pretty much diametrically opposing tastes, I'm thinking. But you're very observant and analytical, and are always able to solidly support why you like/don't like things, and offer solid reasoning for your opinions---which I think is great. I think I tend to respond a little more organically or emotionally to art/music/movies/story/comics, etc-- and my analysis tends to stem from whether or not it moved or engaged me. And if it didn't, what was it that pulled me out of the moment. But even at that- they still (I should get a t-shirt w/ this emblazoned on it. . . ) are matters of taste, eh? Sinnott doesn't work for you on Milgrom or Byrne? Okey-doke. I actually much prefer both those guys w/ Joe's brush on them. Even more oddly, I kind of like Al's inking on just about everyone but himself. Go figure. . . ;D HB
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Aug 28, 2012 21:59:44 GMT -5
There were so many issues that I inherited from my older brothers....
...But I think that the first that I purchased on my own was 'Bid Tomorrow Goodbye'...
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Post by Crimson Cowl on Aug 29, 2012 7:34:11 GMT -5
Whoops, and I still misread the credits. It is indeed the arc that starts with Delano-- right after Moore's run. And goes about another year past the issue I cited (didn't turn the last page, there). I tell ya, CC, you and I do seem to have pretty much diametrically opposing tastes, I'm thinking. But you're very observant and analytical, and are always able to solidly support why you like/don't like things, and offer solid reasoning for your opinions---which I think is great. I think I tend to respond a little more organically or emotionally to art/music/movies/story/comics, etc-- and my analysis tends to stem from whether or not it moved or engaged me. And if it didn't, what was it that pulled me out of the moment. But even at that- they still (I should get a t-shirt w/ this emblazoned on it. . . ) are matters of taste, eh? Sinnott doesn't work for you on Milgrom or Byrne? Okey-doke. I actually much prefer both those guys w/ Joe's brush on them. Even more oddly, I kind of like Al's inking on just about everyone but himself. Go figure. . . ;D HB Interesting. Actually, I try to respond to things 'organically' too, I only attempt analysis afterwards. I guess it must just be differing tastes. ultron69's post gave me intense flashbacks as it reminded me of reading the Ultron story from about ten issues later (or at least the second part of it) in black and white. It was the one with Ms. Marvel, the nuns and the Scarlet Witch defeating Ultron (171?). I suspect that was earlier than the stuff I mentioned before but I'm pretty sure that they didn't do the intervening issues as I didn't read the Korvac saga till a bit later (and in colour!). Anyway, I remember that I really loved that story, so I gues it may well be 'the beginning'.
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Post by sharkar on Aug 29, 2012 9:59:09 GMT -5
There were so many issues that I inherited from my older brothers.... ...But I think that the first that I purchased on my own was 'Bid Tomorrow Goodbye'... Wow, so you were able to get by with your brothers' comics for several years. Nice. My cousins are some years older than I am and they had a huge collection of DCs, many of which were from the early 1960s (no Marvels, alas). They had so many comics I don't think they ever noticed that I surreptiously "borrowed" some of their comics from time to time.
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Aug 31, 2012 20:57:36 GMT -5
As for the truth in comics...we trust our brothers...and so we trust their comic hand-me-downs.
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 31, 2012 21:27:56 GMT -5
As for the truth in comics...we trust our brothers...and so we trust their comic hand-me-downs. So very true, actually. As I've mentioned elsewhere, that early, priceless Silver Age core of my Marvel collection originally belonged to my best pal's two older brothers. . . who pretty much just cast them aside once they'd read them a couple of times. I think the only cost I bore for them ultimately was however much I spent on my spinner-rack collection of Sad Sack (and his related titles) in a trade. And I think I may have gotten about 3 books back for every one of those I contributed. Man, I hope none of those guys are reading this. . . HB
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Aug 31, 2012 22:36:22 GMT -5
Do you remember vendor machine comics?
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 1, 2012 7:54:37 GMT -5
Do you remember vendor machine comics? Y'know, I'm aware they existed. I even have a very old World's Finest with a "Vend-a-Comic" sticker over the price. 15 cents instead of the newstand's 12 cents. But I never, ever saw one of the machines itself in my life. I'm guessing the business model idea was long on the novelty aspect of the 50's/60's vending machine craze-- but quite short on the return-on-investment aspect. The machine itself would certainly have cost at least a couple of hundred dollars even back then. That is a LOT of units that would have to be sold (at a 25% mark-up over normal cover price!) to recoup that cost for the machine's owner. And comics simply wouldn't move nearly as fast as candy or cigarettes or soda-pop. Where did you come across one? HB
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Sept 1, 2012 8:03:06 GMT -5
In Warren, Mi...there was a party store ( umm...convenience store ) on Dequindre road.
I am guessing the whole idea was to keep kids from reading without buying.
The bad part was that whoever was stocking it, did not put several copies of the same issue in each slot...there were single copies of several different titles. So you had to pay a lot to get the the one that you think you wanted...or wait a while until it came to the front.
My sister bought me one. Just by chance, it was JLA #94...and that opened up a whole new world for me.
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Sept 1, 2012 10:21:17 GMT -5
On a side note...the machine was very large....almost like a short bookself display.
The comics sat sideways...binding down...and they were dropped by that type of coil mechanism that we still see today.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Sept 3, 2012 21:31:40 GMT -5
First Avengers issue was #214, an issue I borrowed from a friend in elementary school. I was getting into Ghost Rider at that time and here was GR fighting against this group I'd never read before. The individual members, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, I'd read of them separately but never together here in this group. (The shot of Zarathos grabbing hold to Mjolnir's handle and using it to ride back to Thor to smack him, still one of my all-time favorites)
I was intrigued by the team and hunted down the then 'current' issue of #219. Had no idea who Moondragon was, smaller team this time, and Part One of a story at that, but still liked it enough to want to read more.
But there were only a few convenience stores in my area that carried comics, so noticing the subscription ads in the books, I convinced my mom to let me subscribe to two books, Avengers and Iron Man.
My first mail issue (which I consider my first 'real' issue) was #227. Loved it, especially the split scene cover. This was the lead-in to the Trial of Hank Pym, of whom I knew very little about at that time.
Been reading them ever since.
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Post by Doctor Bong Crosby on Sept 6, 2012 5:53:06 GMT -5
As far as I can remember, mine was #93, and then I was doomed for, how could a child take the tale of Ant-Man's "Amazing Voyage" inside the Vision's body and not be hooked on comics for life...? The Avengers and the action scenes looked terrific. IMO, only Perez beats Adams at depicting EMHs. It's truly a shame that his stint with them was so short-lived. The issue was chokeful with unforgetable moments: the Vision slamming the meeting room doors and then collapsing in front of Cap, Shellhead and Thor... Ant-Man's sudden appearance startling the others... the battle between the Avengers and the fake FF ... . And, of course, Ant-Man's "Amazing Voyage" inside the Vision itself! The power of the imaginery was such that even today I can simply close my eyes and instantly recall them oh so vividly. For my money, one of Hank Pym's finest moments, along with his defeating a large assembly of Avengers with but the help of an army of ants, defeating Egghead's Masters of Evil (alone, once again) and his smashing of Ultron in Vol. III.
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 12, 2012 20:45:32 GMT -5
As far as I can remember, mine was #93, and then I was doomed for, how could a child take the tale of Ant-Man's "Amazing Voyage" inside the Vision's body and not be hooked on comics for life...? The Avengers and the action scenes looked terrific. IMO, only Perez beats Adams at depicting EMHs. It's truly a shame that his stint with them was so short-lived. The issue was chokeful with unforgettable moments: the Vision slamming the meeting room doors and then collapsing in front of Cap, Shellhead and Thor... Ant-Man's sudden appearance startling the others... the battle between the Avengers and the fake FF ... . And, of course, Ant-Man's "Amazing Voyage" inside the Vision itself! The power of the imaginary was such that even today I can simply close my eyes and instantly recall them oh so vividly. For my money, one of Hank Pym's finest moments, along with his defeating a large assembly of Avengers with but the help of an army of ants, defeating Egghead's Masters of Evil (alone, once again) and his smashing of Ultron in Vol. III. Boy, what a great jumping-on point. I'm not sure how to quantify it, and I know it's a bell I keep ringing (Ha! Pun intentional, Bong, you ol' rascal-!), but I feel like there has to be a specific, identifiable aspect of the writing that draws the new reader into this world, and makes him/her want to find out much more about it-- to surrender to it. And that quality seems to be completely absent in the couple of titles I've looked over in recent months (New Avengers & Secret Avengers). In fact, they push me away quite strongly-- the situations are incomprehensible and overwrought and overly complex and only haphazardly explained. Much of the dialog and interaction assumes a deep, deep knowledge of the characters and their established personalities (more or less) and their histories. Nothing is written with an eye towards actually fleshing them out right there in front of us. Does this resonate with anyone else? Am I onto a specific, rational criticism that could be presented to the editorial folks? Yeesh, like, is there a prayer anyone would care-? HB (unnecessarily despondent)
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Post by Crimson Cowl on Sept 13, 2012 2:15:46 GMT -5
In fact, they push me away quite strongly-- the situations are incomprehensible and overwrought and overly complex and only haphazardly explained. Much of the dialog and interaction assumes a deep, deep knowledge of the characters and their established personalities (more or less) and their histories. Nothing is written with an eye towards actually fleshing them out right there in front of us. Does this resonate with anyone else? Am I onto a specific, rational criticism that could be presented to the editorial folks? I think Jim Shooter's been saying much the same thing for the last 15 years. One of his things was always making sure that the character's names were said so that new readers knew who was who. It's noticeable how rare this is now. On a larger scale I'd say it's really rare to see a self-contained issue nowadays - a story that takes place in just one comic. That was one of Marvel's strengths originally -'book length epics'! Multi-issue extravaganzas were something exceptional in Stan and Jack's day -now the opposite is true. Of course the view is that multi-issue arcs pump sales -but in the long run their overuse can actually be very damaging and alienating (a phenomenon that is well known where TV shows are concerned -they've been given orders to really dial it back in that regard on Doctor Who this year so I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever get to know the full story behind the crack in Amy's wall...).
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Sept 15, 2012 7:40:48 GMT -5
Do any of you remember buying older comics in a '3 Pack'? Most of them had the covers removed...or partially removed. You would find them at your local party store ( Convenience Store..Bodega).
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 15, 2012 9:13:17 GMT -5
Do any of you remember buying older comics in a '3 Pack'? Most of them had the covers removed...or partially removed. You would find them at your local party store ( Convenience Store..Bodega). Oh yeah--- still have a few of them. X-Men #46; a couple of Jerry Lewis comics; a Monkees comic; Hulk #106; Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea-- probably a few others tossed into a "remainders" box. I seem to remember that it was completely illegal for vendors to do that-- Stan's Soapbox or the Bullpen page explained it at some point. The vendors would pull the covers off, and ship them back to the publisher as evidence of unsold copies, and would be reimbursed for them. Then the vendor would make a few extra easy dollars by selling the coverless copies they were supposed to have destroyed. The same thing happened with cheap paperback books. The kind of calculated, penny-ante cheating does rub me the wrong way-- slippery slope, and all that. It did seem to disappear for the most part by the mid-70's, I think. HB
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 15, 2012 9:18:55 GMT -5
[ Of course the view is that multi-issue arcs pump sales -but in the long run their overuse can actually be very damaging and alienating (a phenomenon that is well known where TV shows are concerned -they've been given orders to really dial it back in that regard on Doctor Who this year so I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever get to know the full story behind the crack in Amy's wall...). Your Dr. Who example is particularly apt, in fact. As enormously convoluted and densely-packed as the original run was, w/ shifting Doctors, Companions, and iterations of the Master-- you could pretty much jump into that show at almost any point in those 25 years or so, and get sucked right in. And they generally got you enough status quo info one way or another to keep you from being lost. HB
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Sept 15, 2012 19:15:36 GMT -5
Greetings HB Once in a very rare while...you would find an in intact gem in one of these packs. I found an early JLA book...'Batman: King Of The World.' A full issue untouched and complete. It was kind of like 'The Golden Ticket'. Kindest Regards to you, Avenger!
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Post by sharkar on Sept 17, 2012 19:21:46 GMT -5
Do any of you remember buying older comics in a '3 Pack'? Most of them had the covers removed...or partially removed. You would find them at your local party store ( Convenience Store..Bodega). Oh yeah--- still have a few of them. X-Men #46; a couple of Jerry Lewis comics; a Monkees comic; Hulk #106; Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea-- probably a few others tossed into a "remainders" box. I seem to remember that it was completely illegal for vendors to do that-- Stan's Soapbox or the Bullpen page explained it at some point. The vendors would pull the covers off, and ship them back to the publisher as evidence of unsold copies, and would be reimbursed for them. Then the vendor would make a few extra easy dollars by selling the coverless copies they were supposed to have destroyed. The same thing happened with cheap paperback books. I never came across those comic book vending machines (from what I have read, they were not available on the east coast), but there was a neighborhood bodega that carried sets of coverless comics on a fairly regular basis. But they were Charlton comics so I wasn't interested. ;D But one day at a different bodega (the one near my school), I came across a coverless Avengers comic. It was about two years old and it was just sitting there among the current crop of comics. I was ecstatic!! It was Avengers #40, the Avengers vs. the Sub-Mariner; and you know, I don't think I ever actually saw the actual cover until a few years ago, when I got back into comics and set about restocking my Avengers collection.
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Post by ultron69 on Sept 20, 2012 9:38:09 GMT -5
I first discovered the Avengers with #161. The beginning of the Bride of Ultron story, the cover with those ants crawling all over the Avengers (still etched in my brain) and the George Perez art. How could I not be hooked after that?? Oh, good issue, Ultron, good issue. . . Ha! And like Starfoxxx, look who you've avatarred yourself after-! That's another solid story that draws the reader in with its sense of previous history, rather than intimidate the reader & drive him/her away with it. HB Don't you miss those days?
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Post by wundagoreborn on Jan 2, 2013 10:31:07 GMT -5
I make it pretty obvious with screenname and avatar.
When I was in the fifth grade, a comic shop opened right down the street from my elementary school. Going down after school became the new thing and one day I went along with the gang.
Of all the options, something made me buy Avengers 186, the first comic I can remember buying and a copy I still have. (There had been old DCs laying around the house forever - older brothers - but when I flipped thru them nothing clicked)
To say #186 blew my young mind understates the case - Modred, Darkhold, High Evolutionary, Knights of Wundagore, even some crewcut from the US gov't hassling superheroes? Wow. Laying out my 40 then 50 then 60 cents became a monthly 'must do.'
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comaboy
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 34
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Post by comaboy on Jan 2, 2013 15:20:04 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the first I read was so I'll go with the first I remember. It was the story around 120-121 . . . It was 122 for me. Avengers was the first and last title I bought on a regular basis while growing up.
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