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Post by humanbelly on Oct 4, 2012 8:37:17 GMT -5
Someone must have decided Arrow sounds cool, or Green Arrow sounds to comic bookish. Oh brother. I hope this isn't an indication that they've bled everything good out of the character. As someone who's rather on the outside of this topic, I have to say that, all things being equal, "Arrow" does seem like a pretty solid code name. It's just not what we're used to for that fellow. Although it never had any bearing on how much I did or didn't like an individual character, I always found the habit of attaching an arbitrary color to a codename to be a little. . . I don't know. . . forced? Lazy-ish, maybe? Mostly because the color never seemed to have any immediate, apparent significance to me. Green Arrow-- why green? Scarlet Witch-- why not rose or emerald green or Burgundy? Red Tornado-- 'cause of his skin color, right? Blue Devil? Blue Beetle? Green Fury/Flame? Black Abbott? Green Lantern, of course, although DC did an heroic job of creating a whole systematic mystique out of the symbolic strengths of the color associations. Just curmudgeoning a bit, here. . . HB 12:33pm-- "Silver Surfer"-- how in the world did I miss him??
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Post by spiderwasp on Oct 4, 2012 21:03:01 GMT -5
Although it never had any bearing on how much I did or didn't like an individual character, I always found the habit of attaching an arbitrary color to a codename to be a little. . . I don't know. . . forced? Lazy-ish, maybe? Mostly because the color never seemed to have any immediate, apparent significance to me. Green Arrow-- why green? Scarlet Witch-- why not rose or emerald green or Burgundy? Red Tornado-- 'cause of his skin color, right? Blue Devil? Blue Beetle? Green Fury/Flame? Black Abbott? Green Lantern, of course, although DC did an heroic job of creating a whole systematic mystique out of the symbolic strengths of the color associations. True, and as you indicated by mentioning the Scarlet Witch, it's not just DC that does this. Although the colors do make the names sound cooler, they are rather pointless with a few exceptions. Black Panther, Black Widow, White Tiger, Yellowjacket, Black Cat, Black Mamba, and Red Wolf all make sense because they're named after animals. Even Red Guardian, Black Goliath, and Yellow Claw make sense if you don't mind the inherent racial issues. At least someone like the Red Skull was given a skull to match the name. I do however agree that the names you've listed above, along with Black Bolt, Green Goblin, Crimson Dynamo, Purple Man, Silver Sable, Grey Gargoyle, Black Tom Cassidy, Golden Archer, or even Pink Pearl seemed to have just had an arbitray color forced on them - often it seems, to create the alliteration Stan Lee loved so much. Or should that be Silver Stan?
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Post by drew on Oct 6, 2012 1:30:51 GMT -5
I've read Stan used so many alliterative names to help him remember names while writing or scripting up to ten books a month. I'm willing to give Mr. Lee a pass on this.
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Post by drew on Oct 7, 2012 16:28:42 GMT -5
Another great week of DC animation! If you had told me a few years back I'd like a CGI show I'd have said you were crazy, but GL is just a blast! This week had Ch'p, the squirrel GL, and he embarrasses Hal and then helps him. Now I just need G'nort and I'm good. I had no idea the big metallic dude was the Anti-Monitor, but eventually I figured it out. The show is following fairly recent events from the comic pretty closely. I'm willing to bet we see the anti-matter universe and Qward and Sinestro next week. I never liked the portrayal of John Stewart on JLU; but after seeing Guy Gardner on GL I'd like to their take on John and even Kyle or dare I hope Alan Scott?
As for YJ, man that was just action packed. There wasn't a lot of foreshadowing; stuff just happened. Next week I'm sure a lot of stuff will be explained. Kalduran is easily the most heroic person on the show, since he has to make all his friends hate him to infiltrate The Light. I consider Black Manta one of the most evil people in comics. He killed a baby, for crying out loud. At one point the story was he wanted to relocate the entire African race underwater to achieve freedom, which is a cool idea but it's a big ocean so why is he always attacking Aquaman? I do like Manta's portrayal on YJ as it's a bit more regal, kind of making his war on Aquaman a bit like A Game of Thrones. When kings battle, the innocent suffer. Don't forget Mera was pregnant and Arthur Jr. should be around four years old and pretty much helpless. Seeing Impulse and Blue Beetle pal around was pretty cool, but to me the payoff was seeing Wally and Dick argue. It's hard to say who is right, Dick essentially saying victory over the Light will be worth the sacrifices and Wally saying it isn't are both good points. We don't really know much about the Batman/Nightwing dynamic on YJ. Did they have a falling out like the comics? If so, over what? Were Jason and Dick friends? Did they even know each other? Jason was a very different kind of Robin, probably more realistic of how an abused, abandoned orphan would act rather than making lame puns. Then again, perhaps Dick's lightheartedness was simply a coping mechanism. My favorite Robin is probably Tim, at least as Chuck Dixon wrote him. He's occasionally overwhelmed, but he's smart, capable and realistic. I honestly have no idea what is going on at DC comic wise, but their animated stuff is top-notch.
BTW, I believe "Arrow" airs Wednesday at seven central time. I agree the color thing seems a bit arbitrary, but back in the day in comics plagarism was rampant; giving a character something, anything distinctive was probably seen as a plus. Also since Green Arrow is two parts Robin Hood and one part Batman, giving him a distinct appearance and a green one at that makes a lot of sense.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Oct 7, 2012 17:23:02 GMT -5
Ch'p! Tomar Re! The coolness factor of this cartoon just went through the roof. Getting the band back together, the threat of the Manhunters expand, and I'm thinking this is the Anti-Monitor as well or at least a version of him. If Hal ended up on Qward in the Anit-matter universe, I have to wonder how long it will be before the Yellow Sinestro Corps appears. This was a fun episode.
As for YJ, I'm with Wally on this, that plan was WAY too risky, some of them or all of them could have just as easily been killed. I know she's undercover, but Artemis just blew up the Mountain, that's gotta hurt. The payoff from this scheme may not balance out the prices incurred so far and upcoming.
The scarab taking over Jaime and kicking butt, that was sooo crash.
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Post by drew on Oct 7, 2012 23:15:47 GMT -5
As I understand it, in YJ the scarab is a weapon Ted Kord invented but never got to use? Why is it so aggressive? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy it, but Ted was if anything kind of a pacifist. Previously it was a weapon of the Reach to combat the Guardians of Oa. I guess we'll see.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 9, 2012 12:57:33 GMT -5
Although it never had any bearing on how much I did or didn't like an individual character, I always found the habit of attaching an arbitrary color to a codename to be a little. . . I don't know. . . forced? Lazy-ish, maybe? Mostly because the color never seemed to have any immediate, apparent significance to me. Green Arrow-- why green? Scarlet Witch-- why not rose or emerald green or Burgundy? Red Tornado-- 'cause of his skin color, right? Blue Devil? Blue Beetle? Green Fury/Flame? Black Abbott? Green Lantern, of course, although DC did an heroic job of creating a whole systematic mystique out of the symbolic strengths of the color associations. HB 12:33pm-- "Silver Surfer"-- how in the world did I miss him?? I agree with most of those, though as you and Spiderwasp point out, there are exceptions where the color makes sense and adds something. I've got YJ & GL recorded but still haven't gotten around to watching them. Soon...
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Post by drew on Oct 9, 2012 14:51:35 GMT -5
Again, tomorrow Arrow will air. I'm not a big fan of Smallville type shows (how in the world did they get away with calling it Smallville and not Superman Origin or something, anything better is a mystery that still eludes me.) I did watch SV sometimes but mainly to see the guest stars. They did a pretty good version of Green Arrow on the show, even though he was a little more pro-active forming the JLA than Ollie ever was in the comics. My idea was they really wanted use Bruce Wayne, but there are too many interests in Batman for that to actually be feasible.
Really, GA is one of the most interesting characters in comics; yes, Denny O'Neil did make him something other than a Batman clone but subsequent writers actually fleshed him out as something than a liberal stereotype. Oliver is a contradiction; he's the conscience of the JLA, but in his personal life he's a big jerk. I thought Connor was a maybe not a better GA, but he recognized his father had faults, accepted them, and moved on with his life. So he was a better, more centered person. I never cared for the Mike Grell version of Ollie; although more realistic it was also very cynical. The art was great though. It's hard to say which version of Oliver Arrow will portray; I suspect a mixture of all of them. To me, the Kevin Smith version was pretty great. His Oliver was flawed and he admitted it privately, but was brash and flamboyant publicly. It more be a more recent term, but the word "green" means more ecologically aware, and with Oliver being very left wing, almost pathologically so, it makes a good deal of sense he might call himself "the Green Arrow." So yeah, in this case the color name seems to me to be part of the character's persona. I guess we'll find out tomorrow.
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Post by humanbelly on Oct 9, 2012 19:09:41 GMT -5
It more be a more recent term, but the word "green" means more ecologically aware, and with Oliver being very left wing, almost pathologically so, it makes a good deal of sense he might call himself "the Green Arrow." So yeah, in this case the color name seems to me to be part of the character's persona. Hmm. The Progressive Arrow, perhaps? I like it-- it's kinda high concept. HB
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Post by drew on Oct 9, 2012 23:50:59 GMT -5
"Progressive Arrow" does have a bit of a ring to it. I always thought it was funny how the DC guys who look out for the little guy always seem to be billionaires while Superman comes from a modest background and has godlike power. Who does Superman fight? A rich guy. Even Batman can and will put down the smack on Clark whenever he feels like it. Grant Morrison's take on Batman was a bit strange (big surprise) but his take on Jason Todd as the Red Hood to take on Batman in a social media fight was quite brilliant. Oliver seems like he could do that sort of thing.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 10, 2012 8:31:51 GMT -5
Drew, I agree with you about Smallville. I've watched parts of a few episodes and always found it boring. In fairness, I'd really need to sit down and make it through several complete episodes to judge rightly. Good point about "Green" Arrow. They could make him an eco-warrior (which I think is how Aquaman was potrayed in Smallville, BTW) and it wold be rather true to his comic persona.
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Post by drew on Oct 11, 2012 11:10:56 GMT -5
Arrow was quite good. I have a few complaints but overall I liked it. Speedy/ Roy Harper seems unlikely to show up, and Meryln is GA's best friend and exhibits no archery talent at all. And Ollie can put a little green paint on his face and no recognizes him? The tiny domino mask was ridiculous enough, but seriously? The Smallville GA was way better, but it is only the first episode so I'll give it a shot and see what develops. It wasn't bad at all, but I don't see why anything too comic book is considered bad when the alternatives they come up with are often times equally ridiculous. In any case, there was enough meat there that I'll watch next week and see how it goes. I hope I didn't spoil anything; but it's worth a look.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Oct 11, 2012 22:14:56 GMT -5
Other than the bare-bone basics and what little I've gleaned from cartoons, my knowledge of GA is limited. That said, I thought the pilot episode for Arrow was very well-done, laid some strong foundations for stories, and constructed some interesting relationships.
5 years trapped on a island offers up plenty of story opportunities, so I hope they continue to use flashbacks of his time there, perhaps to highlight or expand on the current storyline. (And then there's that certain mask seen on the beach when he was rescued. Hm........)
Tracking down the corrupt people his father told him about is keeping with Ollie's activist ways in that he is helping the people affected by this corruption (and possibly helping to redeem his father as well)
Yeah, the spray-on mask is weak, considering how his picture has been plastered over the news since his return. Hopefully that will improve.
Nice shout-out to Mike Grell as well.
I liked Justin Hartley as GA on Smallville but so far, I'm liking this series and eagerly awaiting the next episode.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 13, 2012 11:30:35 GMT -5
I loved seeing Ch'p and especially Tomar Re (who's always been one of my favorite GL's). So far, I think I'm liking this season of GL better than last year. I thought that they were too limited last year, stuck in the forbidden zone and always fighting the Red Lanterns, and with pretty much the same cast every week. I see more possibilities for varieties this season.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Oct 13, 2012 23:59:37 GMT -5
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Post by drew on Oct 14, 2012 4:49:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I was excited and all set to watch some DC goodness, then the dragon show came on. I thought my DVR had maybe recorded a little of the previous show, but that was not the case. What the hell? CN is full of stupid shows and two that are decent get pushed back? And why so long? How does an anniversary make a bit of difference what shows are aired? Anyway, there is a petition on ipetition to bring the shows back sooner. The goal is 10 thousand and it's already in the mid 2 thousand range. I don't know if it'll make any difference at all, but I feel slightly better now. Also, I have little to no intention of watching their new shows because they look kind of dumb. At least Arrow will give me something to watch, and I check out Disney because EMH aside, they ACTUALLY AIR THEIR CARTOONS! Screw you CN.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 14, 2012 11:13:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I was shocked to see How to Train Your Dragon on my DVR, too. I hadn't seen that article, though, so thanks for the info.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 14, 2012 11:13:34 GMT -5
By the way, apparently I don't the the CW, so I can't watch Arrow. :-(
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Post by drew on Oct 15, 2012 15:22:53 GMT -5
Ultron, I feel for you man. Arrow is quite promising but has some flaws. At times GA seems to show superhuman qualities, and no explanation has thus far been given. Kind of like how Batman can mysteriously vanish or dodge a hail of bullets sort of thing. My conjecture is that on the island somehow he trained with /survived Deathstroke and they had a falling out, somewhat like the Winick issues from a few years back where he went back to the island to re-hone his skills with Deathstroke's mentor. Arrow has much more in common so far with the fairly recent comics than any "classic" GA comics, if that is any consolation. I'd still love to see Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, or the Question though. Or Shado or Lady Shiva.
I've recently checked out the new series Revolution and it's quite good. Also the new season of the Walking Dead aired last night. I haven't read the comic but I liked it. A new book by Dark Horse I believe called Once Upon A Time Machine is coming out soon. It takes fairytale stories and gives them a sci-fi interpretation. It's about $15.00 on Amazon, for 400 pages. I've already ordered mine.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 16, 2012 7:44:47 GMT -5
I'd love to see the Question, if I could get Arrow, that is. I loved the take of him on the Justice League cartoon. I guess I'll have to rely on you for info on Arrow.
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Post by drew on Oct 18, 2012 1:30:14 GMT -5
Just saw episode 2 of Arrow. This show owes a lot, maybe too much to the Chris Nolan films. That's not really a bad thing it just seems so darn familiar. Another thing is when someone refers to GA they generally say something along the lines of "that whack job who thinks he's Robin Hood." or they could just call him Green Arrow. He's never referred to by name ever. It's kind of strange. Still the last five minutes or so are so jaw dropping it makes the Deathstroke mask seem like nothing. This show has its faults but d**n if it isn't entertaining.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 18, 2012 13:15:07 GMT -5
It sounds a bit like Smallville as far as not wanting to use his superhero name, then. It's as if is loses "realism" if they use a corny superhero name. Anyway, I'm sorry I'm missing it. Thanks for the update.
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Post by Shiryu on Oct 18, 2012 17:57:20 GMT -5
Heads up! Episode 2x10 of Young Justice and 1x16 of Green Lantern are online in the torrent network. They also went briefly on ITunes before being pulled off.
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Post by drew on Oct 23, 2012 12:21:45 GMT -5
Since YJ and GL are basically on hiatus, and apparently *sigh* Arrow is doing pretty well, I was wondering what other comic properties might make decent live action shows. I think a show called Gotham Nights might be good, focusing on Robin, Nightwing, Huntress, The Question, Jason Todd and maybe the Creeper or Black Canary would be pretty cool. I actually think Steel would be pretty good too. Problem is, those two are tied to bigger franchises so that probably won't happen. I'd love to see a Shaza- no screw that he's Captain Marvel live action show. Dr. Fate could be a good idea, as could a Ralph and Sue Dibney globe trotting detective show. Or even the Doom Patrol, even though they'd probably call it "The Patrol." Really though I'll probably see a Detective Chimp series before any of these. It will never happen, but I'd love to see a Suicide Squad tv series.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 24, 2012 8:19:19 GMT -5
Gotham Nights sounds good - just don't call it The Batman Family. :-) I like the Question and could even see him in his own series. It could have a touch of an X Files feel to it. Gotham Nights would probably have to have Batman, even if only a supporting character, the way the Justice League is a supporting character in YJ. I like Nightwing (he's like a Batman with a sense of humor and more humanity) but I'm not sure he could carry a show by himself. Dr. Fate also popped into my head. It could have a surreal vibe to it, perhaps. I think Elastic Man & Sue is a great idea. It could be half mystery (I'm remembering Hart to Hart right now) with a bit of superhero action thrown in. Even Plastic Man might work, though that was obviously already done with the cartoon. Just no Baby Plas this time! Doom Patrol would work, though I don't think they'd even need to call it "The Patrol". I think Doom Patrol has a good modern sound to it. I think Birds of Prey could work. I remember reading the first TPB of that, and it was a bit like a super-espionage thing, and I think that could work. I'm always on board for Cap...I mean Shazam. There's no need to do a Green Lantern show since they've got the animate series. I think Suicide Squad or maybe even Checkmate could work. Animal Man could work, with an environmental message thrown in. Maybe Blue Beetle, too.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Oct 24, 2012 15:49:36 GMT -5
The whole time Smallville was on-air, I kept wondering why they didn't do something similar for Batman? Have a show that focused on Bruce's journey around the globe, learning his skills, solving mysteries, getting into adventures, learning the tough life lessons before his return to Gotham. I'd love to watch that.
Did you watch the old Birds of Prey TV show? It only lasted a season, but I remember liking it. It would be cool if they brought back the Flash TV show especially seeing as how Barry Allen is back in the comics now.
Deadshot is on Arrow tonight. He also made an appearance on Smallville, which, if memory serves, had something akin to the Suicide Squad on a couple of times (though not by that name). So there may be something to your suggestion there.
The three kids who played the founding members of the Legion of Superheroes on Smallville? I'd watched a live-action show of them and the Legion. A wild fantasy, but hope springs eternal......
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 25, 2012 8:24:52 GMT -5
There was a Birds of Prey TV show? I didn't even know that. I'll have to look for it.
I like the idea of a young Bruce Wayne. There'd be a lot of globe hopping, and as he learns many disciplines (forensics, detective work, many martial arts styles, computer technology) there would be many possibilities for stories.
A live action Legion? I don't even dare to dream of that!
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Post by drew on Oct 25, 2012 22:40:30 GMT -5
The Birds of Prey Show didn't last very long, but I heard good things about it. I seem to recall there was some talk of a young Bruce Wayne show, but there was some conflict with the movie people and it just never happened. The idea was Bruce would pop up in Smallville, get a spin off, and run intelligence and organization for the JLA (or whatever they called it) they ended up doing a lot of that with Oliver instead, and it still worked. Deadshot was portrayed fairly well, although the tattoo thing seemed unnecessary. They got a lot of the character right, but I'd have preferred the burned out cynic we saw in Suicide Squad or Secret Six. Did anyone catch Felicity Smoak? She was the lab tech Oliver went to. In the comics she was Firestorm's stepmother! That seemed a bit odd.
A live action Legion would be too awesome to ever possibly exist; or it would last one season, get great ratings, and then some network toolbag would cancel in for a stupid reality show.
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Post by Marvel Boy on Oct 26, 2012 18:44:45 GMT -5
Did anyone catch Felicity Smoak? She was the lab tech Oliver went to. In the comics she was Firestorm's stepmother! That seemed a bit odd. Hm, did not know that. I thought Deadshot was pretty good. Didn't quite get the tattoo thing either. He had the hand cannon though! ;D Liked that they are still using the flashbacks to slowly reveal what happened to Ollie on the island. A Chinese bowman and who were the guys in the black ops gear? More questions and questions...... Because of the success of the movies, that's the reason I've always heard about the lack of any kind of Batman TV show. Geoff Johns wrote the Legion episode in Smallville. There was only Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, and Saturn Girl, but you easily got the sense of the scope of the rest of the group, the history from the episode's story. When they gave the Legion oath, holding aloft their flight rings, I got chills and goose bumps.
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Post by Ignore Me! on Oct 28, 2012 21:43:43 GMT -5
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