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Post by starfoxxx on Jan 10, 2012 15:48:47 GMT -5
Oh yeah, i forgot about the original post.
I can't come up with 3 NEW additons, but I would LOVE to see an Avengers team with Spider-Woman, Vision, and Dr Strange on the roster--BUT NOT WRITTEN BY BENDIS this time.
and Stingray would be a cool addition, too.
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 10, 2012 16:39:06 GMT -5
In fact, once you get bogged in those kinds of details, I find you often lose that emotional core. You mean like in the Ang Lee Hulk movie. I didn't need to see a full hour exposition about how Bruce was already exposed to Gamma radiation from birth (Something like that, I don't even remember the details of that cockamamy story now) and that's what caused his particular reaction to the later exposure. I was perfectly happy with the old Stan Lee explanation that "Bomb goes off, Bruce gets hit with Gamma rays, Bruce turns green and smashes things." Once the movie went crazy trying to make it all make sense, I just didn't care anymore.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 10, 2012 19:39:02 GMT -5
Man, a topic like this is just the kind of stuff that's Sharkar's bread & butter. I surely hope she reads this and then feels compelled to offer her academically-enhanced view. . . ;D And then I'll agree with her, and be able to go to sleep more easily (me & the Toad. . . twin sons of different amphibious mothers-!) While there's no disputing that of course we can't ever really know how superheroes and their ilk could actually operate or exist in a hyper-realistic setting, I don't think that I agree that the attempt to do so as a fictional exercise is necessarily pointless or even dull. I think in that sense it's simply a matter of individual taste. Really, it's nothing more than the ol' magic "What If-?" that is the basis for practically any and every level of fantasy &/or SciFi. I think we've reached the same conclusion on this particular question, though-- that there's not really a true, analogous organization in the real world for the Avengers. . . or really any other SuperTeam. But pointless? Nah-- not at all. By keeping the society as real as possible, and the heroes themselves as human (and flawed and realistic) as possible, it provides a way to tell very human stories in fantastical trappings. Look at many of the best episodes of Buffy-- when you pull the vampire/horror elements out, you discover that the compelling personal stories remain intact and are just as moving. I've always found straight, traditional Sword & Sorcery to be impossible to surrender to because it was, well, completely unrelatable to me on any level. I recognize that there's tremendously good stuff out there, but it simply doesn't hook me in because the level to which it's divorced from any common human experience is too large for me to navigate (I freely admit, the failing may be mine). But these would indeed fall under the heading of "Different Tastes for Different Folks", yes? Ha-! And I have to say, FF, that the ol' Navel-Gazing charge is probably an apt one-- but heck, that's TOTALLY a part of what makes being a devotee of this genre' fun, right? It's almost a requirement, dating clear back to the earliest, earnest "Who's stronger: Underdog or Mighty Mouse?" debates of our youth-! (Well, hopefully it was back in our youth. . . ) Now, where are ya, Shar? You're a lot more coherent about these things than I ever am. . . HB Ah, well I guess I more mean it gets pointless to examine in minutiae the realism of superheroes. For example, as a former physics minor, I find the whole comic universe silly from top to bottom. For example, ever seen a supervillain pull a girder down from a building skeleton? Well how is that possible? In 99% of cases, the girder weighs more than the person pulling it, he would just do a pull up instead of pulling it down. Even with super strength, he needs to obey gravity... Or how about holding a building at one corner and keeping it from falling? The building would just fall anyway. It's not a solid, the component pieces will break down... Or flying faster than sound and talking? Or breathing without external apparatus flying that fast? Or hell just getting radiation poisoning and tumors instead of become spidery or half ton green monster when exposed to too many rads...? So I suppose tackling all of those sorts of things would make comics more realistic, but inherently less fun. As such I just kind of check my understanding of physics at the door so I can enjoy the story. Once I've done that, the idea that "superhero- quasicops" seems okay as anything else... I also think we're confusing resonance with realism. I too am not a big fan of sword and sorcery, but I think these stories appeal to nomadic types who don't want to be tied down, and their world seems so big and unconnected because they want it to be that way; no worries, just a lone guy cutting a swath through women and adventure. The one guy I know who is a big sword and sandal fan is a lifelong bachelor and I think it reflects a lot of who he is that he likes that so. And that resonates with him. But I've enjoyed some far out stuff that didn't fit the genres I like because it tugged the heartstrings in the right way. I grew up in the eighties and saw flicks like Enemy Mine and Starman, both of which should've bored my young self who was looking for Star Wars style entertainment. But they were interesting, scifi stories that were really just disguised stories about family and romance, respectively. I just find in my experience all your really need is to have the characters reach something universal in your story and that's when you mine good emotional stuff. Doesn't have to be realistic to do that. In fact, once you get bogged in those kinds of details, I find you often lose that emotional core. I find that especially true of a lot of current comics. I really don't care when these heroes and villains die these days, unless I have a strong tie to them from years ago. A lot of current comics don't make me feel anything but annoyed. Wow, physics minor, eh? I'm thinkin' we need to hook you up w/ HBSon, as the race is currently on to see if we can indeed get him fully accepted into a decent college before he actually, irrevocably fails his senior AP Physics class this year. . . (parenthood is KILLIN' us, believe me-!). At some point on this board, we mentioned a book by physicist James Kakalios called "The Physics of Superheroes", which I believe he developed initially to supplement the Intro to Physics classes he teaches. Chances are you've probably picked it, I bet. But he goes a long way towards making a lot of physical-law absurdities palatable AND worthy of scrutiny by generally granting one or two "miracle exceptions" for each case under discussion. That way the real-world baby doesn't have to get thrown out with the never-happen-in-this-universe bathwater. And he does stand firm on things that simply don't work, period, even with "miracle exceptions" (The Atom being so small that he can instantly travel along a wire on a telephone signal, f'rinstance. Oy, I'm no physicist, but the absurdity of that STILL makes me slap my forehead). In Jim Butcher's Dresden Files series, he does an extremely commendable job of integrating basic physical laws into a world where magic can work quite effectively for those adept at it. Basic things like momentum & mass and the laws governing conservation of energy and the like. The magic ain't just magic, as it were-- it's governed by fundamental universal rules that seem to resemble science/physics more than, well, magic. Hey, that holding-an-intact-building-by-a-corner example you mentioned? Incredible Hulk #120? Maximus' Central American castle/fortress? Yes? Yes? (Fairly famous one, in fact. Even back in the forgiving late-1960's, that gaffe got quickly called out on the letters page. No-Prize may have been awarded. *sigh* Those were indeed the days. . . ) Ha! ANY thread can be bent towards ol' Greenskin-! HB
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Post by freedomfighter on Jan 11, 2012 0:14:44 GMT -5
Actually never read the book, but the Atom never bothered me. At that size he's likely transformed into some sort of subatomic particle and the idea that he attached himself to another subatomic particle in a soundwave never really seemed that far fetched, given that when I was into theoretical physics we were assuming things worked the same as they do in the macrouniverse but weren't 100% sure... Don't know if I have too much left to help out son of HB. I'm pretty good with basics, but any major revelations in the last twenty years would leave me needing to do some reading. Anyway, trying to go back to the topic thread, I already offered Nova and Vance Astro and Modred. I would also offer up Sunfire- he's connected to the whole Japanese sphere of the MU and he would slightly make up for a horrible lack of Asians in the flagship title of Earth's premier super team. (Do you realize there have been more Asgardian Avengers than superpowered Asians??). Seriously, that's pretty freaking weak...
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 11, 2012 21:25:50 GMT -5
Actually never read the book, but the Atom never bothered me. At that size he's likely transformed into some sort of subatomic particle and the idea that he attached himself to another subatomic particle in a soundwave never really seemed that far fetched, given that when I was into theoretical physics we were assuming things worked the same but weren't 100% sure... Don't know if I have too much left to help out son of HB. I'm pretty good with basics, but any major revelations in the last twenty years would leave me needing to do some reading. Anyway, trying to go back to the topic thread, I already offered Nova and Vance Astro and Modred. I would also offer up Sunfire- he's connected to the whole Japanese sphere of the MU and he would slightly make up for a horrible lack of Asians in the flagship title of Earth's premier super team. (Do you realize there have been more Asgardian Avengers than superpowered Asians??). Seriously, that's pretty freaking weak... Man, Sunfire's such a jerk, though. Namor looks reasonable and easy-going next to him. But yeah, there's certainly a lack of Asians from Asia isn't there? Might be a little more luck w/ Asian-Americans. . . like Jolt, maybe? Or. . . doesn't Jubilee actually become an Avenger in some alternate future? Hmm. Here's a whole team's-worth of newish additions, then: Cannonball (co-leader) Mockingbird (co-leader) Missing Link Killraven Jolt Deathlok (Luther Manning) Dr. Strange (a bit of a holdover-- but make it really official) It would be nice also to see: Sharon Ventura/Ms. Marvel/She-thing (whatever form she's in right now) Lyja-! That's the Skrull we should get! Sif Valkyrie, on the REAL team. Re-animate poor Jack-of-Hearts Nightcrawler Boy, there are just so many. . . HB
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Post by freedomfighter on Jan 11, 2012 23:16:57 GMT -5
Actually never read the book, but the Atom never bothered me. At that size he's likely transformed into some sort of subatomic particle and the idea that he attached himself to another subatomic particle in a soundwave never really seemed that far fetched, given that when I was into theoretical physics we were assuming things worked the same but weren't 100% sure... Don't know if I have too much left to help out son of HB. I'm pretty good with basics, but any major revelations in the last twenty years would leave me needing to do some reading. Anyway, trying to go back to the topic thread, I already offered Nova and Vance Astro and Modred. I would also offer up Sunfire- he's connected to the whole Japanese sphere of the MU and he would slightly make up for a horrible lack of Asians in the flagship title of Earth's premier super team. (Do you realize there have been more Asgardian Avengers than superpowered Asians??). Seriously, that's pretty freaking weak... Man, Sunfire's such a jerk, though. Namor looks reasonable and easy-going next to him. But yeah, there's certainly a lack of Asians from Asia isn't there? Might be a little more luck w/ Asian-Americans. . . like Jolt, maybe? Or. . . doesn't Jubilee actually become an Avenger in some alternate future? Hmm. Here's a whole team's-worth of newish additions, then: Cannonball (co-leader) Mockingbird (co-leader) Missing Link Killraven Jolt Deathlok (Luther Manning) Dr. Strange (a bit of a holdover-- but make it really official) It would be nice also to see: Sharon Ventura/Ms. Marvel/She-thing (whatever form she's in right now) Lyja-! That's the Skrull we should get! Sif Valkyrie, on the REAL team. Re-animate poor Jack-of-Hearts Nightcrawler Boy, there are just so many. . . HB Sif and Valkyrie on the same team? I dunno about that one, if only because Marvel usually won't let anybody get cut, so having two Asgardian chicks with swords would lead to a lot of "strike you with the flat of my blade" dialogue... (I know Val probably has a spear at this point and I'm thinking that's not much better...). As for Sunfire, I love arrogant characters and could see him and Quicksilver constantly trying to prove which one of them is more "homo superior." I actually have a lovely idea for a team with Namor, Moondragon, Quicksilver, new recruit Sunfire, a resurrected Dr. Druid, US Agent and poor Hawkeye as leader. I already have a cover idea for the first issue. All the other heroes are standing there with their arms folded, backs to one another out of contempt and Hawkeye is just standing rubbing his temples in frustration. I would read that book voraciously...
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 12, 2012 19:50:26 GMT -5
[Sif and Valkyrie on the same team? I dunno about that one, if only because Marvel usually won't let anybody get cut, so having two Asgardian chicks with swords would lead to a lot of "strike you with the flat of my blade" dialogue... (I know Val probably has a spear at this point and I'm thinking that's not much better...). Ha! Actually, I was thinking of it more as a "choose 3 from column A" sort of thing, and hadn't considered the possibility of the two Asgardian warrior lasses serving at the same time. But you got me to thinking about exactly what that scenario could entail. . . and I think there's a LOT of high-voltage dramatic gold to be mined there-! Do we have any idea if Sif and Val get along at all? (Shiryu, you're sort of the Thor-centric guy 'round here, aren't you? Any enlightenment?) My guess would be no-- no way. Thor & Sif have a long, long, long history, and the hearty Asgardians don't strike one as a particularly chaste bunch. Obviously that's been a romantic relationship, at the very least, for many, many years. There's also been mention made relatively recently of at least a pretty serious liaison between Thor & Brunhilde at some point in their past. Surely. . . SURELY that would be the source of considerable friction between these two, yes? And they somehow find themselves on the same team on Midgard, fighting for the benefit of these mortals. Val certainly has some roots (admittedly disjointed ones) sunk in down here, and can be assumed to have a solid sense of commitment and duty. Sif has rarely seemed little more than tolerant of the Midgard situation, and may even be resentful of the responsibility to this team. All it would take is a couple of terse, snappish comments in the midst of a battle, and suddenly you've got a couple of full-powered Asgardians pulling out those swords you're worried about, and going at it toe-to-toe. Friends will do their best to intervene; foes (Lethal Legion? Zodiac? Circus of Crime?) will likely- and wisely- suddenly remember pressing hair and/or dental appointments elsewhere. Oooh, I'm likin' it a lot. . .! That is simply delightful, FF-- it truly is- ;D. Possibly to beef up the female contingent a bit, one could add Emma Frost & Finesse (from Av.Acad.)-? Man, Hawkeye would have to lead from the rear, as it were, with arrows pointed directly at all of their backs. Perhaps one could include Hercules at his gregarious, "give thee the gift of battle!" best, to give Clint a bit of over-the-top support. Heh. HB
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Post by freedomfighter on Jan 14, 2012 23:33:54 GMT -5
[Sif and Valkyrie on the same team? I dunno about that one, if only because Marvel usually won't let anybody get cut, so having two Asgardian chicks with swords would lead to a lot of "strike you with the flat of my blade" dialogue... (I know Val probably has a spear at this point and I'm thinking that's not much better...). Ha! Actually, I was thinking of it more as a "choose 3 from column A" sort of thing, and hadn't considered the possibility of the two Asgardian warrior lasses serving at the same time. But you got me to thinking about exactly what that scenario could entail. . . and I think there's a LOT of high-voltage dramatic gold to be mined there-! Do we have any idea if Sif and Val get along at all? (Shiryu, you're sort of the Thor-centric guy 'round here, aren't you? Any enlightenment?) My guess would be no-- no way. Thor & Sif have a long, long, long history, and the hearty Asgardians don't strike one as a particularly chaste bunch. Obviously that's been a romantic relationship, at the very least, for many, many years. There's also been mention made relatively recently of at least a pretty serious liaison between Thor & Brunhilde at some point in their past. Surely. . . SURELY that would be the source of considerable friction between these two, yes? And they somehow find themselves on the same team on Midgard, fighting for the benefit of these mortals. Val certainly has some roots (admittedly disjointed ones) sunk in down here, and can be assumed to have a solid sense of commitment and duty. Sif has rarely seemed little more than tolerant of the Midgard situation, and may even be resentful of the responsibility to this team. All it would take is a couple of terse, snappish comments in the midst of a battle, and suddenly you've got a couple of full-powered Asgardians pulling out those swords you're worried about, and going at it toe-to-toe. Friends will do their best to intervene; foes (Lethal Legion? Zodiac? Circus of Crime?) will likely- and wisely- suddenly remember pressing hair and/or dental appointments elsewhere. Oooh, I'm likin' it a lot. . .! That is simply delightful, FF-- it truly is- ;D. Possibly to beef up the female contingent a bit, one could add Emma Frost & Finesse (from Av.Acad.)-? Man, Hawkeye would have to lead from the rear, as it were, with arrows pointed directly at all of their backs. Perhaps one could include Hercules at his gregarious, "give thee the gift of battle!" best, to give Clint a bit of over-the-top support. Heh. HB As I recall, Thor and Brunhilde (Valkyrie) have an intertwined past. Back during the adaptation of the Ring saga, just before Thor battled the Celestials (so figure around Thor 293-299) they were both mortals long ago in the past and they were lovers in the storyline. However lately they've said that the Eye of Odin may have been telling a tall tale... marvel.wikia.com/Thor_%28Thor_Odinson%29As for my team, Finesse would be a perfect addition- thanks for the suggestion! Emma Frost...a good arrogant character but two reasons I'd probably eliminate her 1) Moondragon has been doing the arrogant telepath in a tight bikini thing so much longer without as much attention that I would want to spotlight her. 2) There's been enough cross pollination between the X-Men and Avengers. It's like seeing Derek Jeter on the Red Sox at this point. Just destroys the whole purpose of cheering one team in particular. I like that there are certain delineated "teams." It creates rivalry and those fan moments. We couldn't have Avengers vs. Defenders at this point, virtually every Defender is an Avenger now. The whole leadup to Avengers vs X-Men looks less promising simply because many of the X-team are currently Secret New or Mighty Avengers (Storm, Wolverine, Beast)...
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Post by Doctor Bong Crosby on Jan 15, 2012 17:05:34 GMT -5
We can always hope for Wolverine to take a leave from the Avengers, now that heĀ“ll be leading his own team of X-Men (one can always dream, right...?) .
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