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Post by drew on Jan 22, 2011 2:22:25 GMT -5
I always thought of Thor and Hulk as roughly equal in strength, at least initially. The trick is when Hulk is angry (like he is constantly) his strength theoretically has no upper limit. I understand wanting to downplay Thor's strength because Iron Man, Giant Man, and the Hulk are all heavy hitters. I think this is why Tony generally uses his weapons and Ant Man appears more than Giant Man. Personally I like to think that Mjolnir is used as a focus for Thor's abilities, but he doesn't necessarily need his hammer to summon storms and throw lightning and all that. That doesn't exactly agree with the comics, but it's the only way I can make any peace with the inconsistencies. I'd really like to see Thor lose his cool at some point and go full on viking on someone and the inevitable moment when Cap picks up Mjolnir. Actually, maybe that is how Kang's disaster happens! Anyway, I can't wait until Sunday!
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Post by Shiryu on Jan 23, 2011 16:51:50 GMT -5
The latest episode is online! I'll comment it tomorrow, there are a lot of nice things in it.
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Post by drew on Jan 23, 2011 21:25:05 GMT -5
Just saw the last part of the Kang trilogy. Wow. Seeing a preview of the Avengers wearing space armor had me worried, but I should have learned enough to just sit back and enjoy. I don't want to spoil anything, but Thor cuts loose, Hawkeye gets a nice moment, Jan probably has her best episode yet, we briefly see a certain stretchy scientist, the Wakandans get a nifty mention, and the foreshadowing of evil Ultron. Also, HERBIE.
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Post by bobc on Jan 24, 2011 10:21:47 GMT -5
I liked it! I especially love how they always give us a little glimpse of a new character--last week, the Black Knight, this week a "certain stretchy scientist." It makes you not want to look away for even a minute! I learned this the hard way--I looked down at one of my dogs this episode, and suddenly heard Kang say "Wakandans!" I missed it! And last week, if you blinked you might have missed the Black Knight!
This writer is crafty!
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Post by drew on Jan 24, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
bobc Did you catch the part about Ultrons head design? Priceless. Seeing a close facsimile of the Iron Patriot alone was worth it. Still, I have no idea who the three goons on Damocles were, and I know about Razorback and Dr. Bong, so it's a little disturbing to see that gap in my knowledge. Does anyone know who those guys were? The time travel/superspeed thing was pretty fun to watch.
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Post by bobc on Jan 24, 2011 12:48:35 GMT -5
Yeah I did notice the Ultron thang.
I have never seen those Kang thugs before--maybe they are a new creation for the TV show--but I agree the whole thing was fun to watch! Kind of scary too. As others have noted earlier--I think Kang comes off way more formidable and scary "live" than in comics.
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Post by Shiryu on Jan 24, 2011 13:25:31 GMT -5
Did you notice that Kang's soldiers have some sort of "springy" neck? It's hard to describe, but at times it drops in and then springs out again for a moment. Not very overt but really creepy.
Anyway, another good episode! Best bits for me were - Thor deflecting the ray right back at them - The Hulk reassuring Wasp, a brief little pearl of characterization - The last Ultron being identified as Ultron 5
The armours looked like something designed to sell toys. Are there action figures from this show? If not, we may see them soon, after all it was only Wasp that really needed it.
PS, am I the only one to think that Damocles Base, now in the Avengers' hands, will be useful in the Kree/Skrull war? After all, once they figure out how to use it, it has powerful technology from the future.
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Post by drew on Jan 24, 2011 15:25:36 GMT -5
Yeah, my initial reaction to the Avenger armor was it was designed to sell toy variants and maybe it was, but at least it made sense story wise. It reminded me of the JLA story when they wore "fractal armor" to regain their powers to fight off Darkseid. What really happened is you could buy a Flash, Batman or GL toy with a bunch of goofy unnecessary plastic fastened on. Still, seeing the silver Iron Man suit and the Iron Patriot was pretty neat. Apparently Thor has been holding back somewhat. It would be interesting if Thor isn't using his full power because he's afraid of hurting people. Keep in mind what he said when deflecting the Damocles beam. "For Midgard!" Then Jane Foster and Jan are at his hospital bed was a nice touch. I also liked how the Hulk gave Thor a half compliment, the writing strikes the perfect tone on the characters. Did anyone else notice Tom Kane voiced Ultron, reprising his role from Next Avengers? Very creepy sounding. I thought SHIELD took over Damocles, not the Avengers. Maybe it is just me, but I think the insignia on Hank Pym might be a stylized ant head?
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Post by Shiryu on Jan 24, 2011 19:34:59 GMT -5
You are right, Damocles is in Shield's hands. BTW I forgot to say -- I've read #3 of the comic book tie-in and it foreshadows the arrival of the Elders of the Universe in some future episode! This show gets better and better
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Doctor Bong
Young Avenger
Master of belly dancing! (No, really...)
Posts: 73
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jan 25, 2011 9:12:59 GMT -5
I liked it! I especially love how they always give us a little glimpse of a new character--last week, the Black Knight, this week a "certain stretchy scientist." It makes you not want to look away for even a minute! I learned this the hard way--I looked down at one of my dogs this episode, and suddenly heard Kang say "Wakandans!" I missed it! And last week, if you blinked you might have missed the Black Knight! This writer is crafty! Speaking of the scribes who have won our hearts so, who writes the show...?
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Post by bobc on Jan 25, 2011 10:53:42 GMT -5
I read his name but can't remember it. Don something? I didn't recognize him as a Marvel writer, although he might be.
You know what else I really liked? How Kang's invasion of Wakanda just basically disappeared--and the writer didn't explain it! I thought that was a nice, mysterious touch. It was like Kang didn't even know what happened!
I also enjoyed Kang's creepy promise that things were just beginning!
Shir--the thought of the Elders of the Universe appearing soon is making my comic nerd-gene tingle with excitement!
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Post by drew on Jan 25, 2011 14:53:27 GMT -5
The writer for the last episode is Brian Reed. The other two parts were written by Andrew Robinson. It's a bit odd that even interconnected episodes are written by different people, but presumably they get together and hash out a rough plot, then go their own way with dialogue. It sounds a bit odd but you can't argue with the results. Actually, the description of the old school "Marvel way" of writing always sounded crazy to me. Someone like Stan Lee would plot the story, the artist would draw his interpretation, then dialogue was added. It seems so backwards but it pretty much worked. Myself, I think how Wakanda took out Kangs forces is pretty much in line with the portrayal of Black Panther. You didn't actually see it, so you assume he did something very cool. Shiryu, do you know what the next episode holds? I'd really dig seeing the Taskmaster appear, along with Doctor Octopus and Jack Monroe. Something that has been on my mind is the lack of Rick Jones. While I certainly don't want a Wendy or Marvin type character, it seems odd for a show that throws out so many nods to ignore the guy who helped the Hulk, Captain America and Mar-Vell.
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Post by Shiryu on Jan 25, 2011 16:46:59 GMT -5
After nearly a hour of research, I do! Here is the list of the titles of most remaining episodes and a few one-line summaries. BEWARE, massive spoilers regarding future characters we'll see. www.imdb.com/title/tt1626038/episodes
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Post by sharkar on Jan 25, 2011 21:33:11 GMT -5
Speaking of the scribes who have won our hearts so, who writes the show...? Thanks for providing the info about Reed and Robinson, Drew. BTW the head writer/story editor is Chris Yost, whom we mentioned above as the writer of the companion comic book A:EMH limited series. I read and liked Yost's X-Men limited series, Emperor Vulcan and Kingbreaker (both featuring one of my faves, Havok!)--the action in the two series flowed well and the characterizations/dialogue were spot-on. Highly recommended--esp. EV. The writer for the last episode is Brian Reed. The other two parts were written by Andrew Robinson. It's a bit odd that even interconnected episodes are written by different people, but presumably they get together and hash out a rough plot, then go their own way with dialogue. It sounds a bit odd but you can't argue with the results. A committee approach is not uncommon in a high-volume, deadline-conscious industry like TV. For example, for soap operas (a new show 5 days a week!), broadly speaking it's the head writers who come up with a year's worth or more of the main storylines and arcs. Then there are the breakdown writers who plot out the stories/details/scenes. Then there are the dialogue writers who write the characters' words. Here, I assume Yost is supervising Reed, Robinson and others--so there is a cohesive vision, and it shows in the finished product (as everyone here can attest to--this topic already looks like the thread of the year, and it's only January! ;D).
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Post by drew on Jan 25, 2011 23:46:36 GMT -5
Shiryu Yes! I've always liked the Falcon! Cap. Marvel and ... Victor Von Doom? Dr. Doom is one of the best fictional characters ever created imo. Plus the FF, Super-Skrull, and War Machine? Thanks for the research Shiryu! sharkar That makes sense, I guess I'm too much of a control freak to imagine sharing the writing duties. That said, Chris Yost is a name I've seen before, and he always does quality projects. P.S. Havok has always been a favorite of mine as well. I especially liked it when he battled the Hulk to a stalemate in X-Factor. I'll have to check out your recommendations. Yeah, I felt a thanks to the writing team was a bit overdue (sorry guys and gals) Doc B. is completely right on this. The animation is great, the voice acting is top notch, the character designs are superb, but it falls apart without solid writing. Lately I've been trying to watch earlier Marvel shows and they are pretty much terrible. As a fan, I've never understood the idea of keeping properties separate. Yes, I get the legal stuff, but if a crisis goes down I want to see Daredevil, the FF, Spider-man and anyone potentially helping out. The MU was built on being connected so it's lousy to see it compartmentalized. Thankfully EMH seems to be counteracting this.
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Post by drew on Feb 3, 2011 1:33:38 GMT -5
bobc I'm starting to see what you are saying about the villains generally being more impressive in animated form, especially after re-watching the Gamma World episode. Part of it is the excellent voice acting, but quite honestly I've always thought of the Leader as a guy with a big head who somehow can't beat a raging moron who runs around the desert in torn pants. (And I really like the Hulk, so this was always a sore point for me. ) Anyway, the Leader's address to the world isn't malevolent really, he sincerely believes his way is best. So does Magneto, Dr. Doom, The Master of the World, etc. Very few genuine "bad guys" of the MU are 100% evil, excepting Red Skull, Bullseye, or the Purple Man. So imagine how scary those guys are going to be when we get a good look at them. Then on the other hand, some comic villains might be too much for Tv, like Vermin, Sabretooth or the Scarecrow because they were victims of abuse. I think they could do a great version of Kraven, maybe he is hunting the more animalistic bad guys?
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 3, 2011 8:05:17 GMT -5
@i've always thought of the Leader as a guy with a big head who somehow can't beat a raging moron who runs around the desert in torn pants. (And I really like the Hulk, so this was always a sore point for me. ) Anyway, the Leader's address to the world isn't malevolent really, he sincerely believes his way is best. *sniff*-- drew said he really likes the Hulk--- Didja all hear that?? I'm. . . I'm givin' ya an exalt, man. Ohhh, the years of loneliness. . . *choke* HB PS- Don't worry, I'll return at some point to HB's Lonely Hulk Corner. Somehow, Hulk #455 didn't show up in my Christmas stocking (the one issue I'm missing ), so I'll procure it soon, and jump back into my Greenskin-oriented musings & observations. Heh-- thought it was safe around here again, eh?
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 3, 2011 8:26:25 GMT -5
So imagine how scary those guys are going to be when we get a good look at them. Then on the other hand, some comic villains might be too much for Tv, like Vermin, Sabretooth or the Scarecrow because they were victims of abuse. I wonder if we'll ever have them. Some villains have been/will be toned down for a younger audience. Modok is now Modoc (only for Conquer) and Ultron, according to his spotlight in the cartoon's tie-in comic book, will want to control humankind, not exterminate it. But I don't mind too much, it's a small price to pay after all.
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Post by drew on Feb 4, 2011 2:04:22 GMT -5
Ha! I've been waiting to be exalted! I think I've liked old jade jaws since I was four (I am a John Romita, Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno fan forever) I've since picked up a couple of the essential volumes, the black and white ones, and you get a better understanding of the progression of the Hulk. The fluctuations in intellect, aggression and appearance are quite interesting to see unfold. The EMH version is a good amalgamation of the Hulk's various interpretations. Personally, I like the occasional glimpses of cunning we see, it kinda rounds out his character. Shiryu. Yeah,I didn't mind the Modoc thing, but you can have depth without a lot of violence. Modoc is still Modok, the big weird head man, but sometimes if a villain has a violent .. I don't know .. reputation? then it's kind of pointless to animate them, since they'll just be a watered down version. I would point to Carnage in the 90's Spider-man series as an example. I don't want to see Carnage kill a bunch of people, but really that is all he does, so why bother? Seeing a bad guy with some depth is fantastic; that's why I liked the end of the Kang trilogy with Kang defeated, Ravonna in peril, he still is the conquerer and his pride won't let him back down. I'd like to see Bullseye as Hawkeye's counterpart, the Grim Reaper vs. the Black Panther, and Ben Grimm against the the Impossible Man. Any other ideas?
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 4, 2011 6:00:38 GMT -5
I've liked old jade jaws since I was four (I am a John Romita, Bill Bixby and Lou Ferrigno fan forever) I've since picked up a couple of the essential volumes, the black and white ones, and you get a better understanding of the progression of the Hulk. The fluctuations in intellect, aggression and appearance are quite interesting to see unfold. The EMH version is a good amalgamation of the Hulk's various interpretations. Personally, I like the occasional glimpses of cunning we see, it kinda rounds out his character. Yep, I completely agree with your opinion of EMH's version of ol' Greenskin. From a writing standpoint, I think someone took a step back from what's happened historically w/ abortive attempts to bring the Hulk under the Avengers' umbrella, and realized that it has never been handled with much care or credibility. Rather it only provided an initial reason for a fight to get started. Even as a kid I couldn't believe how stupidly these scenarios were handled by the characters in them-- everyone just SPOILIN' for a fight at the slightest provocation. Here, we have the Hulk integrated into the team, and while it's not exactly smooth or always comfortable-- we're able to see that inclusiveness is the order of the day, not coercion or submission. I also enjoyed hearing someone (Hawkeye) refer to him as "Jadejaws" out loud-! It's a nickname that you always read, but never hear spoken-- I thought it worked particularly well coming from Hawk- HB
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Post by drew on Feb 5, 2011 2:58:15 GMT -5
@hb I never really understood why Marvel made some of the choices they did with the Hulk. I'm really liking how they handle the Hulk in EMH. The Bruce Banner thing is strange, but not bad by any means. One of the best Hulk stories was "Banner!" because they really convey the guilt Bruce feels over the damage the Hulk causes, and how the army wanted to weaponize Gamma monsters, some of which was carried to EMH. It's really amazing how they are knitting together a new MU from all these disparate threads, but adding new stuff, like the partnerships between Thor and Jan, or Hawkeye and the Hulk. I still want to see Clint and Cap team up, if only to hear Cap call Hawkeye "circus boy" again. You should check out an older comic called Avengers 1.5, it's a direct continuation from Avengers 1 and it is spectacular. I can't remember right now who wrote it, but the artwork was by Steve Rude and it is pretty much EMH on paper. Plus, the team fights Doctor Doom.
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Post by humanbelly on Feb 5, 2011 9:41:14 GMT -5
@hb I never really understood why Marvel made some of the choices they did with the Hulk. I'm really liking how they handle the Hulk in EMH. The Bruce Banner thing is strange, but not bad by any means. One of the best Hulk stories was "Banner!" because they really convey the guilt Bruce feels over the damage the Hulk causes, and how the army wanted to weaponize Gamma monsters, some of which was carried to EMH. It's really amazing how they are knitting together a new MU from all these disparate threads, but adding new stuff, like the partnerships between Thor and Jan, or Hawkeye and the Hulk. I still want to see Clint and Cap team up, if only to hear Cap call Hawkeye "circus boy" again. You should check out an older comic called Avengers 1.5, it's a direct continuation from Avengers 1 and it is spectacular. I can't remember right now who wrote it, but the artwork was by Steve Rude and it is pretty much EMH on paper. Plus, the team fights Doctor Doom. Thank ya, Drew--- this will be going right onto my MileHighComics order. I'm on it--! HB
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Post by drew on Feb 6, 2011 4:25:13 GMT -5
Sorry, the artwork was done by Bruce Timm and the writer was Roger Stern. At one point, Thor asks Hulk "Is that shabby garb thy only raiment?" The Hulk angrily responds, "clothing is worn for two reasons, modesty and protection. I'm not modest and I don't need protection!" The episode Some Assembly Required prompted me to dig that issue up since pretty much the same thing happens.
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Post by Ignore Me! on Feb 6, 2011 23:25:10 GMT -5
A little behind the scenes insight on the show.
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Post by drew on Feb 7, 2011 9:00:39 GMT -5
That was really cool! I think hearing Josh Fine and Chris Yost pretty much being on the same page as what we like /dislike is very encouraging as a fan, and seeing Fred Tatasciore was just fantastic. (plus now I know how to pronounce his last name.) I'm glad Marvel has kept him around as the voice of the Hulk; he completely nails it every time. It's odd how Stan, Jack, Steve and other guys and gals from the House of Ideas over the years created this institution we know as the MU. It is truly something special, and seeing it being treated with care is great. I guess the best way to summarize is that I like Superman as a character, but I feel like I know Peter Parker as a person. To me, that is Marvel comics.
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Feb 7, 2011 19:48:57 GMT -5
*Continues to blame school for not allowing to watch this online.*
Someday I will watch this from beginning to end and then be able to comment on how cool I think everything is, lol.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 7, 2011 20:27:56 GMT -5
Make sure to use the Real Player Internet Explorer plugin to download the episodes though (or any of the several websites that do it). You never know when Disney or Marvel may ask to have them removed.
The BTS videos are cool, especially the interview with Tatasciore, who seems to have a good handle on Hulk's personality. But I'm hoping the show comes back soon from this hiatus. Does anyone have a date?
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Post by drew on Feb 8, 2011 9:45:21 GMT -5
Kidcage, school is important, but you do need time for yourself. Take a break and come back fresh. I'm very excited because initially I figured it was going to be a Iron Man/ action figure commercial, but that happily isn't the case. The Hulk, Giant Man, Hawkeye and to a lesser degree the Black Panther, the Wasp and Thor have been beautifully captured; I'm eagerly awaiting their interpretation of Captain America, who has to be difficult to write. I know we'll see Daredevil at some point, and it will be great to see the man without fear animated faithfully.
I'm sure most of you have seen the trailers for the Thor and Captain America movies, so what do you guys think? I've already made a date with the wife to see Thor, and Cap is kinda a given just because,well he's freaking Captain America. It seems the movie Cap will be battling Hydra instead of the Nazis, just like EMH. I'm a little conflicted about that, but heroisim, mythology needs to be.. bigger than real life. So I'm cool with it and curious to see how well they pull it off.
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Post by bobc on Feb 8, 2011 17:35:26 GMT -5
I missed this week's show--did anyone watch it? Witchcraftial's channel on Youtube hasn't been updated.
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Post by sharkar on Feb 8, 2011 20:23:47 GMT -5
Havok has always been a favorite of mine as well. I especially liked it when he battled the Hulk to a stalemate in X-Factor. I'll have to check out your recommendations. drew, have you read Brubaker's Rise and Fall of The Shi'Ar Empire? This X-Men 12-issue limited series (available in hc and tpb) precedes the two series I mentioned--and features a lot of Havok! Sorry for the brief detour, everyone : now back to our regularly scheduled programming, the Avengers cartoon...
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