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Post by humanbelly on Feb 25, 2011 19:27:56 GMT -5
In a way, the Hulk's ill-fated inaugural six-issue run is almost like a false start. Other than the very well done first half of Issue #1, with sequences that have been endlessly re-presented, homaged, refered to, and justifiably revisited, it really is a series of stories without a solid central focus or even a consistent direction. The commie red-baiting stuff was a truly unfortunate go-to escape hatch when stymied for solid story ideas. And really, the only lasting antagonists for the Hulk that we got out of this run were the perpetually histrionic homicidal war-monger, General T-bolt Ross, and the ultimate enduring C-lister-- Tyrannus (I'd forgotten he originally appeared in ish #5!). Oddly enough, an awful lot of this weak non-formula was retained with Hulk's re-introduction in Astonish a couple of years later--- but there was at least an effort to create his own specific rogues gallery (although Boomerang was, unfathomably, among the first in line there). But it was a good year or two after that before we were introduced to both the Leader and the Abomination, and managed to largely divest ourselves of the Fightin' the Dirty Commies motif.
Oh man-- issue #6 will be next, won't it? (SPOILER ALERT)
The method of defeat for the hopelessly lame Metal Master has GOT to be a finalist in the Stupid Contrivances/You've Gotta Be Kiddin' Me Hall of fame. It's literally throw-the-book-on-the-floor stupid.
And remember. . .I'm Greenskin's biggest fan!
HB
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Post by sharkar on Mar 3, 2011 19:45:17 GMT -5
I meant to ask a while ago--as far as I know, Stan starting used full credits--meaning crediting not only the writers, pencilers, and inkers but also the letterers--in the Marvel comics released in September 1962, as for example with Fantastic Four #9, the Torch story in Strange Tales #103, and Thor in Journey Into Mystery #86. I don't have copies of Hulk #4 and the Ant-Man story in Astonish #38, but I assume those comics have full credits too--right, Owen?
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Post by sharkar on Mar 3, 2011 20:26:28 GMT -5
In a way, the Hulk's ill-fated inaugural six-issue run is almost like a false start. You know, my first exposure to the Hulk (apart from the animated cartoon) was in the reprint comic Marvel Collectors' Item Classics (which I bought primarily for the FF reprints). I assumed the Hulk stories there were from earlier issues of Tales to Astonish, the comic he was appearing in at the time. Later on, when I discovered he'd had his own short-lived (volume 1) series, I was--you guessed it--astonished! ;D
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Post by owene on Mar 5, 2011 9:36:22 GMT -5
But it was a good year or two after that before we were introduced to both the Leader and the Abomination, and managed to largely divest ourselves of the Fightin' the Dirty Commies motif. As a kid the hulk was always the title (along with Iron man) that I most associated with the cold war. I guess it was the missile base setting that meant it always felt like a cold war title even when they stopped the succession of communist agents or people like the abomination shifted from being KGB agents to just being monsters. Also it was a title where the Hulk wandered all around the marvel earth and seemed to encounter foreign characters quite a lot. Of course it was also a title i never really read regularly. Oh yeah Hulk 6. thats an amazingly stupid issue. but the Ditko art had me liking it a lot more than what had come before. Sharkar the two hulk stories in #4 both have 'by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby' signatures worked into the art on the first pages but no mention of the inker or other creators. Astonish 38 has a full credits box underneath the regular art and seemingly done by the letterer rather than the artist.
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Post by owene on Mar 5, 2011 9:40:22 GMT -5
In a way, the Hulk's ill-fated inaugural six-issue run is almost like a false start. You know, my first exposure to the Hulk (apart from the animated cartoon) I think it was the live action series for me, which had a collectable sticker series in the UK (a bit like trading cards but you stuck them into an album) which featured pictures of his comic book foes alongside the photos of Bixby and Ferigno. It was a while before I read an actual hulk comic. I'd completely forgotten that. I remember a dormammu sticker, which just looked incredibly odd to me. Maybe that was for a follow up marvel series of stickers as he's not really a hulk villain
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Post by owene on Mar 9, 2011 17:59:58 GMT -5
A visit with the Fantastic Four By Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers. Villains: Dr Doom, Skrulls Guest Appearances: Willie Lumpkin So What Happens?: A new issue of the Fantastic Four magazine goes on sale and it seems like everybody the team encounters on their walk wants to play Fantastic Four. When they arrive home they are faced with a huge mail bag full of questions from fans and a few practical jokes from the Yancy Street Gang. The letters give the team an opportunity to retell their origin, defend Sue’s place on the team and reveal how Reed and Ben were college roommates and both served in World War 2. Finally there is time to celebrate Sue’s birthday. So is it any good?:It’s not really a story as such but it gives us some interesting titbits about the teams background. We had already seen Reed’s college days in the first Doom story but this story now introduces the idea that Ben was Reed’s roommate. And as an All American college football star and widely reported war flying ace Ben becomes a more heroic figure and what he is missing out on as the Thing becomes more pronounced and painful. It also slips in the idea that Reed came from a very rich background and had his own wartime experiences as a member of military intelligence. This would be expanded in Sgt Fury 3 which reveals Richards was a Major who worked alongside the Howling Commandoes. The idea that Sue wasn’t pulling her weight was a recurring one in early letters columns and to be honest has a lot of validity. Lee and the characters address it here by showing some of the handful of times that she has made a physical impact but also by telling the readers to go watch wrestlers if they want anything more physical and by having Sue cry at the idea that the readers have complained about her. That pretty much covers all of the bases to stop the complaints. Meanwhile she is still moping about Namor, Reed again makes his interest in her clear but she is still unsure who she wants. Despite the efforts of Stan and Jack in this issue to get people off Sue’s back she is still being written in quite a dreary way. Trivia:Willie Lumpkin, the Fantastic Four’s mailman was previously the star of a short lived newspaper strip, written by Stan Lee, detailing the adventures of a Mail Man in Glenville. Glenville was also the name of the Human Torch’s hometown from his solo stories. Lumpkin was played by Stan Lee in the 2005 Fantastic Four film. The Yancy Street gang were mentioned in issue 6 but this is the first time they have sent an actual practical joke to the Thing. As well as his college connection to Ben this issue tells us that Reed grew up next door to Sue and has had feelings for her ever since. Reed and Ben’s world War 2 links obviously caused some problems as the title’s lifespan got longer but the idea that Reed and Sue were the same age is also quite problematic given his graying hair and her quite youthful appearance and attitude. This was eventually retconned, although they are still fairly close in age Reed met her when she was 17 and he was in college, given that he must have spent a long time in education this is suitably vague. Is it a landmark?:No, it fills in a lot of information but it’s not really a landmark. The Impossible Man By Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers. Guest Appearances: The Impossible Man So What Happens?: A green skinned alien crash lands on Earth and is immediately sent packing by some hobos due to his lack of money for food. They send him to a bank and by shape changing he easily gets into its vaults and then walks away with a pile of money while the police powerlessly shoot at him. The FF are called in when he sets himself up in a restaurant and starts eating breakfast. The alien tells them how he has come from the planet Popup and has the power to transform his body at will. Something that becomes obvious when the Thing attacks him and ends up with a damaged fist. The team are powerless to do much to him but eventually the alien decides that their bad manners are spoiling his vacation and storms out of the restaurant. At this point the alien finally realises that nobody else he has met on Earth have been able to change their shapes and decides to make the most of his powers. He quickly steals a cab and goes hurtling around the streets of New York until the Thing manages to bring him to a halt. By this point the army has become involved and the Impossible Man deals with them by becoming a bomb. Luckily Reed manages to toss it into the air before it explodes and the alien comes harmlessly back to earth. Eventually Reed hits upon an idea. He ignores the alien and, with everyone else doing the same, he eventually gets bored and heads back into space. So is it any good?: It’s a nice change of pace with the Impossible Man managing to stay the right side of annoying. He provides the creative team with a chance to do whatever it feels like and they get across the idea of a childlike alien whose fun the FF are spoiling quite well. Reed’s decision to just ignore him until he goes away could be quite silly but works fairly well as a one off solution and all in all it’s a decent light story. Trivia:The Impossible Man went missing for thirteen years after this story before reappearing in issue 175 and then appearing in the majority of issues through to 195. Since then he has largely appeared elsewhere as comic relief. A trend that started when Chris Claremont used him in Spider-woman 45 followed by X-Men and New Mutants annuals. He even graduated to a few specials of his own in the early 1990s. Is it a landmark?: The Impossible Man appeared as recently as issue 580 so I guess it is a key story of sorts.
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 9, 2011 19:56:38 GMT -5
Impossible Man just popped up (heh) as a supporting character in this month's Hulk (sort of the Red Hulk-centric title). It wasn't particularly impressive at all. In fact. . . I'm having trouble recalling the point of the story, or many of its details. It was a "lighter" issue. . .
And say, wasn't Impy instrumental in defeating Galactus during that above-mentioned longer run in FF? That was the "Cosmic Indigestion" gambit, yes?
His New Mutant days were actually kinda enjoyable, as he became buddies with that other Warlock character-- the one that was a techno-virus-entity-thingy. The were a pretty amusing couple of non-culturally-assimilated loose cannons, I remember. . .
HB
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Post by starfoxxx on Mar 9, 2011 23:02:51 GMT -5
One of my first comic books---and one I count as the reason I got hooked-- was X-men Annual #7, where Impossible Man puts the X-men (killer 80s line-up) on a Scavenger Hunt. The Avengers and Avengers Mansion have cameos, Claremont's Impossible Man is perfect/hilarious, just a total blast. Worth seeking out.
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Post by owene on Mar 10, 2011 14:08:04 GMT -5
Impossible Man just popped up (heh) as a supporting character in this month's Hulk (sort of the Red Hulk-centric title). It wasn't particularly impressive at all. In fact. . . I'm having trouble recalling the point of the story, or many of its details. It was a "lighter" issue. . . Impossible Man just popped up (heh) as a supporting character in this month's Hulk (sort of the Red Hulk-centric title). It wasn't particularly impressive at all. In fact. . . I'm having trouble recalling the point of the story, or many of its details. It was a "lighter" issue. . . yeah the FF issue i mentioned wasn't all that great either. i remember nice art but thats about it. Like a lot of recent FF issues there just seemed to be too many supporting characters and plots going on. starfoxxx that x-men annual is a favourite of mine too,
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Post by owene on Mar 10, 2011 14:14:46 GMT -5
The Thunder god and the Thug By Stan Lee with Larry Leiber, Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers Villains: Thug Thatcher Guest Appearances: none So what happens?:Thor needs to get back into Don Blake’s office without giving away his secret identity but eventually manages it by creating a decoy Thor in a nearby mannequin shop. Once at work he gets disturbed by a gun battle raging outside his office between the police and henchmen of the notorious gangster Thug Thatcher, recently found guilty of selling substandard steel. During an escape attempt Thatcher gets shot by the police and his men head into Blake’s office to get him medical help. They take Don Blake to Thatcher’s hideout where they force him to work on their bosses’ injured shoulder. Despite the gratitude of Thatcher’s girlfriend Ruby the gangsters feel they can’t let Blake live and turn on him. He transforms into Thor and manages to capture all of the gangsters except for Thatcher and Ruby. For some reason they had back into the city to find Don Blake and use him to get revenge on Thor. As Blake is still back at Thatcher’s hideout they can’t find him but do manage to take Nurse Foster hostage. Thor arrives and easily rescues her but Thatcher escapes again, climbing a half built skyscraper and threatening the crowd of bystanders. Unfortunately the skyscraper was being built with his own substandard steel and a girder collapses under his feet. Thor catches him and dispatches him to jail, taking time only to erase the memory of Thatcher’s loyal girlfriend to stop her having to wait for him. So is it any good?: It’s got some tremendous Kirby Gangsters. Absolutely brilliant broken nosed faces accompanied by Leiber’s best attempts at hard bitten gangster dialogue. Blake can’t be a doctor, he has to be a “skinny sawbones”, a term that gets used about 5 times. It has a great cover and the art is some of the most dynamic yet from Kirby in any post-FF1 title, it really is one of the first issues that has that classic Kirby look and it’s a shame it is his last issue on the title for a while. The story works fairly well given the huge gulf in power between the two sides. In fact it deals with this by never really even pretending that thor is threatened by any of the events. Instead the drama comes from his ability to protect the regular humans, including Don Blake, from the events. It helps that both Thatcher and his girlfriend have more personality than most of the bad guys we have seen so far. Ok the personality is largely just odiousness but he is well written and I liked that the ending made note of his likeable girlfriend. There are plenty of stupid moments in the story but all in all it’s quite an enjoyable tale, certainly several ranks above the ant-Man, Hulk and Human Torch stories from the same period. Are there any goofy moments? Don Blake, not Thor, has the ability to telepathically contact Odin and ask for help. Jane Foster’s daydreams about domestic life with Thor are hilarious, ironing his cape, polishing his hammer and cutting his flowing locks. Spider-Man aside the classic Marvel hero didn’t spend all that long stressing about secret identities. The Marvel hero of the pre-classic period really did. Thor knocking up a quick Thor costume in a convenient mannequin shop is a lowlight of this type of scene. Thatcher has heard of Don Blake and his friendship with Thor and heads to Blake’s medical office to find him. He is amazed when he isn’t there despite the fact that he had just had Blake captive at his own hideout minutes earlier. Trivia: Thatcher stayed in prison for a very long time and was eventually released in Thor 368. He attempted to get his revenge on Thor and Foster using the killer Zaniac only for Zaniac to end up killing his girlfriend Ruby. A good callback to Ruby by Walt Simonson but she deserved a nicer ending. Thor's decision to erase her memories to give her a fresh start in this story doesn't really seem much like something Thor would (or indeed could) do but it's a nicer ending
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Post by humanbelly on Mar 11, 2011 21:59:28 GMT -5
Hey, hey, HEY! Where's the "Is it a landmark?" question?? Okay, maybe the story itself isn't-- but I'm pretty sure this is a legitimately iconic cover. This cover pose was the one used to create the Thor figure for an early series of one-color, molded-plastic toy Marvel figures (about 5" tall). Sort of like really big plastic army soldiers.
But yes, a terrific cover-- one I recognize w/out knowing a fig's tooth about the story inside.
HB
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Post by owene on Mar 12, 2011 8:23:55 GMT -5
Sorry, for some reason, probably that it just said "no" i didn't copy and paste that bit of the review.
But you are right it's a truly classic cover, by far the best Thor one yet and probably the best of any issue i've read so far. I do like some of the cornier FF covers, the one with Namor watching the team get kicked out of the Baxter Building is a fave as is the wanted poster on FF7 but for classic Kirby art that Thor one is special
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Post by owene on Mar 17, 2011 14:08:25 GMT -5
Tales to Astonish 40 The Day Ant-Man Failed. By Stan Lee with Larry Leiber, Jack Kirby and Sol Brodsky. Villains: the Hijacker Guest Appearances: none So What Happens?: The cities trucks keep getting hit by a Hijacker and truck owner Howard Mitchell rages at the NYPD about their uselessness and his inability to contact Ant-Man. Luckily a nearby ant sends Pym this information and he stops work on a gasmask for the military and heads over to Mitchell’s office. After complimenting Mitchell on his Inca art collection Pym promises to ride inside a truck and find the Hijacker. This makes Mitchell’s guards happy but unfortunately Pym soon comes down with suspected appendicitis and has to leave the truck. The guards are dismayed at Pym’s failure but go ahead with the run. Sure enough the truck is captured by the Hijacker and its guards are gassed. However Pym soon reveals himself. He thought his presence would put off attacks so faked his appendicitis. He had followed along in his tiny ant-plane and used his new gas mask to escape the Hijackers gas that had put the trucks guards out of action. The Hijacker turns on Ant-Man and forces him to hide inside the truck’s engine. The hijacker almost knocks him out with the truck’s horn but Pym’s loyal ants turn on the windscreen wipers and Hank launches himself at the Hijacker’s mask. Ripping it exposes the Hijacker to his own gas and he is soon knocked out and revealed to be truck owner Mitchell who wanted to hide his firm’s losses by playing criminal. So is it any good?: It’s tempting to quote the synopsis again at this point. No it’s not very good. Yet again we have a mystery villain who goes to the trouble of involving a hero who would otherwise have shown no interest in the case. A villain who was largely attacking his own trucks to cover the losses of those trucks and then complains about the effect it has on his business. You have a hero faking appendicitis to get out of protecting the trucks, hence leaving the guards to be attacked by a dangerous villain and you have an action sequence where Ant-Man is almost knocked out by a car horn being too loud for his tiny ears. On the plus side we have a new inker for Kirby. I like Ayers and Brodsky actually has some big deficiencies with regards to drawing people but he also gives Kirby a more heavy blocky feel that works quite nicely in places. He’s hardly Chic Stone or Joe Sinnott but after dozens of Kirby/Ayers issues of various titles the variety is nice. I quite like the cover as well, with it's melodramatic caption it makes you think the story is about some sort of Spark plug problem Are there any goofy moments?:Lee and Kirby attempt to add some extra drama by having Ant-Man overshoot his pile of ants while being catapulted to the crime scene. Thankfully the ants reach up and catch him. Whew. The sheer melodrama of the car horn and windscreen wiper sections are pretty goofy. Trivia: Given that he didn’t appear again in any Ant-Man comics the Hijacker had a fairly good track record as a villain. He appeared twice in Marvel Two In One (admittedly one of them was an issue featuring dozens of villains), before being killed by Scourge in Captain America 319 Ok that’s not incredibly impressive but it’s probably more than he deserved. Is it a landmark?:No
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Post by owene on Mar 17, 2011 15:39:29 GMT -5
Strange Tales 105 The Return of the Wizard By Stan Lee with Larry Leiber, Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers. Villains: The Wizard Guest Appearances: the Invisible Girl and the Fantastic Four So What Happens?: After winning the wardens trust the Wizard is allowed to work in the prison hospital, bringing him into contact with chemicals and enabling him to create a substance that burns through his cell walls allowing him to escape. He makes his way back to his futuristic mansion where he manages to hold off the Police with forcefields. Sue forbids Johnny from going to battle him but when he goes anyway she trails her brother to the mansion. Johnny manages to evade most of the Wizard’s defences but Sue soon gets trapped and the Wizard is able to use her distress to force Johnny to surrender and place himself in the Wizard’s explosive rigged cell. Johnny manages to burn through the Wizard’s alarm system and deal with the bomb that threatened them bot. Then his flames trigger the houses’ sprinkler system and force the Wizard to lose his footing. While Sue frees the captive policemen Johnny brings down a section of roof on the Wizard’s head and captures him. So is it any good?: Some of it is quite fun but it leaves a fairly sour taste. Sue is just a nag throughout, trying to talk Johnny out of capturing the Wizard and then blundering into traps and forcing the competent Torch to hand himself over to the Wizard. Luckily Johnny can deal with all the trouble she causes and gets to give her a few cross words at the end when she starts to nag again. I can see where Stan was going with Sue as Johnny’s guardian and main authority figure but it’s still sexist rubbish that fits right in with how uselessly Sue was depicted in FF at the time. This spoils a nicely drawn story that does actually feature a competently written Johnny with few of the real blunders of previous stories. Although he is still tossing around Fire-saws and making flame duplicates to evade Sue’s motherly eye. At least he isn’t going on and on about his secret identity in this one. Are there any goofy moments? The Torch creates a catapult made of flame and uses it to send a bomb a safe distance away. Ok. I’m not sure what the sliding scale of Marvel Universe time was back in those days but surely the time since issue 102 isn’t enough for the Wizard to have demonstrated enough good behaviour to put him in charge of dangerous chemicals. Trivia:The Wizard becomes the first villain other than Dr Doom, or if you count him Namor, to reappear in the Marvel Universe. Inexpliably Lee obviously considered him quite bankable as he would reappear three more times in the title before moving over to the pages of Fantastic Four. His next appearance in 110 would lay the groundwork for the Frightful Four by teaming him up with Paste Pot Pete Is it a landmark?:No.
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Post by owene on Mar 22, 2011 6:51:24 GMT -5
Fantastic Four 12 The Incredible Hulk By Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers. Villains: The Wrecker (Karl Kort) Guest Appearances: The Hulk So What Happens?: Alicia and the Thing’s date is spoiled when a platoon of soldiers armed with experimental weapons mistake Ben for the Hulk and attack. Ben deals with all that they can throw at him but is annoyed at the comparison and starts vandalising the Baxter Building when he returns home. The rest of the team are also concerned by the Hulk. The army has contacted them due to series of attacks on weapons installations and asked for help finding and destroying him. The team agrees to help and, with Thunderbolt Ross in tow flies across country to meet weapons designer Bruce Banner and his assistant Rick Jones. They also meet scientist Karl Kort, who, terrified of the Thing, drops his wallet as he heads back to his work. The Torch gives Rick Jones the job of returning the wallet, only for Rick to snoop inside it and discover Kort is actually a red agent. He soon manages to get himself captured by Kort. Meanwhile the FF are busy upgrading and test driving some military tech, much to the annoyance of Thunderbolt Ross who, having recruited the FF is constantly losing it due to their lack of military discipline and inability to follow orders. Reed improves a Rocket sled but it crashes to a halt due to sabotaged tracks. At the crash scene Banner finds a note from the Wrecker instructing the Hulk to drive the FF away or risk Rick’s life. He immediately goes to his own secret hideout and transforms into the Hulk. Both the Hulk and the FF quickly find a series of tunnels under the desert and search for the Wrecker. Unfortunately they run into each other first and battle it out across the desert. The battle is quite inconclusive until the Hulk to be struck by a ray fired by the Wrecker and knocked out. The FF easily deal with the Wrecker and his robot and, with Rick safely returned, get a parade in their honour before heading back to New York. So is it any good?: Yes. In fact it is far more effective than most of the Hulk stories to date. While we are sure of the Hulk’s innocence he is still the primary adversary in the issue and the government’s panic about him is portrayed far more clearly here than in his own book. The Thing’s rivalry with the Hulk is setup very early on and makes sense as the Thing is still quite aggressive and insecure himself at this point. Similarly Reed’s respect for Banner and Rick Jones getting over protective of his friend in an annoying way are established very early in the story. As with the FF’s appearance in Spider-Man 1 you immediately get a clear idea of how these different concepts fit together in the same world and why everyone can’t just get along and solve each other’s problems. While the other heroes will interact with the Hulk time and again they will never quite get the full picture of what is going on or be able to use their power to make things better for him. He will remain misunderstood and hunted, they will return to New York and adulation. The art is superb throughout, the wrecker’s robot is a classic Kirby design and while we are still tied to a constrictive 9 panel grid for a lot of the book this switches to 6 panels for the battle between the FF and the Hulk and it starts to feel a lot more like a Marvel comic from a few years later. There is more time spent on the slugfest here than in previous books, we don’t have to really establish a villain or a plot, it is just the FF against the Hulk and, aside from some of the Namor issues (which of course also feature an anti-hero adversary who doesn’t need to be totally defeated), it is the first issue that climaxes with a multi page action sequence where the sheer physical dynamics are what you are supposed to be impressed by. Mindless battle issues (particularly between heroes over a misunderstanding) rightfully get a bad name in comics but it’s interesting to note that for the first year of FF (and the other titles) there wasn’t actually that much focus on a climactic fight using super powers. The powers until this point are largely incidental to a twist ending. This issue feels more like a “classic Marvel” book. Which is a good thing really as the mystery in this issue is pretty poor, could that weedy looking guy who is named even though we’ve never seen him before and who drops his wallet in front of the heroes possibly be the villain. Why yes he is, his communist front membership card is there in his wallet. I loved the characterisation of the FF and General Ross. As an American general facing commie saboteurs he is in theory the good guy but his inability to stay civil with the heroes subtly gets across the idea that his rage at the Hulk is also misguided to anyone who hasn’t read that book. I also really loved the idea that let loose in an army base full of experimental weapons Reed immediately sets about improving them and Ben wants to test drive them all. Oh and for all the “Hulk is strongest one there is” stuff the Thing pretty much holds his own in my view. Are there any goofy moments?:I love the idea that the communists give their agent a massive super strong robot and an atomic ray gun but not enough training to ensure they don’t keep their membership card in their easily dropped wallets. It’s that slapdash training that means the West is bound to be victorious. Reed is still replying to reader’s mail within the story. Here he points out that a lot of people felt the last Fantasti-car design looked too much like a bathtub. Trivia:For the first time in the title the Torch is consistently drawn with visible facial features while flamed on. This move away from the Golden Age Torch look (where he doesn’t even have a nose) and is established from this point onwards. A very similar look is also evident in this month’s Human Torch story in Strange Tales 106 (there are a few noses in close ups in 105 as well but a lot of full face flames as well). 106 was drawn by Dick Ayers, the first time anyone other than Kirby had drawn the torch and it might actually be a result of Stan liking that look. This version of the Wrecker never appeared again. Presumably because the name was soon tied up by the Giant Man foe who appears in Astonish 63. (Or the Thor guy I guess) This issue came out the same month as the Hulk’s title folded and may well have been planned prior to that. The Hulk doesn’t actually appear again until Avengers 1 six months later. Is it a landmark?: Yes, the Hulk/Thing rivalry and idea that the heroes of different books could interact and often not as friends, make it a landmark for the Marvel Universe.
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Post by sharkar on Mar 22, 2011 18:51:03 GMT -5
Sharkar the two hulk stories in #4 both have 'by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby' signatures worked into the art on the first pages but no mention of the inker or other creators. Astonish 38 has a full credits box underneath the regular art and seemingly done by the letterer rather than the artist. Got it--thanks for for checking, Owen. Re FF #11: ...Reed and Ben’s world War 2 links obviously caused some problems as the title’s lifespan got longer but the idea that Reed and Sue were the same age is also quite problematic given his graying hair and her quite youthful appearance and attitude. This was eventually retconned, although they are still fairly close in age Reed met her when she was 17 and he was in college, given that he must have spent a long time in education this is suitably vague. Actually in #11's letter column, a reader asks how old the members of the FF are. Stan's reply is that Ben and Reed are in their late thirties, Sue is in her twenties, and Johnny is 17. So the age gap between Sue vis-a-vis Reed and Ben is established pretty early on. Speaking of letters, in issue #15's letter column a letterwriter **** suggests that the FF insets that appear along the bottom of #11 be incorporated as part of the masthead, with two heads on either side of the title. By the time the fan's letter was published, these insets were being used in a similar way-- in the FF corner box, which made its debut with issue #14. ****Roy Thomas!
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Post by sharkar on Mar 22, 2011 19:18:27 GMT -5
Hey, hey, HEY! Where's the "Is it a landmark?" question?? Okay, maybe the story itself isn't-- but I'm pretty sure this is a legitimately iconic cover. This cover pose was the one used to create the Thor figure for an early series of one-color, molded-plastic toy Marvel figures (about 5" tall). Sort of like really big plastic army soldiers. But yes, a terrific cover-- one I recognize w/out knowing a fig's tooth about the story inside. You are spot-on about that, HB--#89's cover image is THE Thor image of the Silver Age (and probably beyond). And not only was #89's image used for the Thor toy figure you mentioned, but it was also for other marketing/merchandising, such as the 1960s T-shirts. IMO #89's image is far superior--Thor's stance, the positioning of his head, his proportions--to the first Thor cover of JiM #83 (which I feel is somewhat awkwardly laid out).
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Post by owene on Mar 23, 2011 3:57:37 GMT -5
Actually in #11's letter column, a reader asks how old the members of the FF are. Stan's reply is that Ben and Reed are in their late thirties, Sue is in her twenties, and Johnny is 17. So the age gap between Sue vis-a-vis Reed and Ben is established pretty early on. That makes a lot more sense and indeed is the way it's always been played. The thing that led me the wrong way was the panel in #11 of WW2 era Reed where he says that the only thing that kept him going was the memory of the girl (sue) he left behind and how they had been kids together. I tend to go with on-panel stuff ahead of letter columns and features but in this case the on-panel stuff makes no sense at all and was probably the result of Lee having to fill a series of panels that segue from the war to an upset Sue without really thinking about what he was saying.
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Post by owene on Mar 24, 2011 12:43:24 GMT -5
The Incredible Hulk 6 The Metal Master By Stan Lee and Steve Ditko Villains: The Metal Master Guest Appearances: Rick Jones So what happens?:The army can’t trial its new weapon without Banner and Banner can’t get to the base while the army is hunting for the Hulk. Hulk eventually evades the troops and changes back to Banner at his hideaway but while he is doing so he sees that his new weapon being destroyed by an alien calling himself the Metal Master. The Metal Master destroys a bunch of tanks and attempts to imprison General Ross, Rick and Betty in a metal cage before heading off from the base to deal with a variety of other military targets. Banner tries to become the hulk again to deal with the threat but is left with the Hulk’s body and Banner’s head. Luckily he has some Hulk masks on hand and suitably disguised goes after the Metal Master. The Metal Master proves able to easily defeat the Hulk and he is found, defeated, by the army. Luckily when a soldier tries to unmask him his green Hulk head has replaced Banner’s features but the Hulk is still captured by the military and taken to a specially constructed concrete cell at the base. As the Metal Master continues to attack around the world the Hulk turns on Rick and Betty worries about the missing Banner. Eventually the Hulk breaks free and makes his way back to his hideout where he transforms into a drained Bruce Banner and, with the help of some of Rick’s ham radio buddies, starts working on a plan to defeat the Metal Master. With the Metal Master still easily defeating missiles and fighter jets the Hulk faces him with a huge cannon he has constructed. The Metal Master tries again and again to destroy it but his powers have no effect on it. Eventually he allows the Hulk to get close enough to grab him and threatened by the Hulk’s physical force agrees to put everything back the way it was and leave the planet. It turns out that the Hulk’s secret weapon simply wasn’t metal but a mixture of plastic and card painted to look metallic. So is it any good?: After almost all the Marvel stories to date being drawn by Kirby and Ayers it is a nice change to see somebody else. Especially when it is some truly excellent Ditko work. His style suits the flowing malleable metal structures the alien creates very well and he immediately imbues the supporting cast with a lot more personality and emotion than in the preceding issues. His Hulk is also excellent, particularly his glowering head. Ditko would of course draw several issues when the Hulk returned to action in Tales to Astonish and I look forward to reading those. The story isn’t outstanding and doesn’t really make much of a case for continuing what has been a rather confused title but it is one of the better stories in the short run. The trick ending is very lame but the Metal Master is a suitably creepy looking villain and Ditko’s depictions of Betty, Rick and General Ross are possibly better than Kirby’s so in some ways it is a little bit better than the preceding issues. It would perhaps have been better as a 12 page story similar to the ones in issue 4 and 5, it is slightly padded out with pages of the Metal Master destroying yet more missiles. Also coming across as padding are the scenes where the Hulk ends up with Banners head and worries about his identity, it’s very hard to really equate the Hulk with caring about such things and it is a visually ridiculous as well as thematically confused development. In fact the only thing that makes it worse is the fact it doesn’t go anywhere at all. Knowing this makes it even harder to care about this subplot at all. While it is slightly better than some of the preceding stories it doesn’t really make you want to see any more of the title although I will say that I would like to see some more Ditko mixed in with all of the Kirby in upcoming months. Are there any goofy moments? This doesn’t start to make any sense at all. And it isn’t even really used for any drama inside the story. The Teen Brigade; with their shouts of ‘last one back is a rotten egg’ begin their brief period of Marvel stardom. The ending is just stupid. What kind of metal master can’t tell metal from cardboard? Trivia: Despite the ease with which he was tricked, surely being able to control metal must involve some ability to tell metals from non-metals, the Metal Master seemed to have more potential as a villain than a lot of early Marvel foes. He has reappeared, in a non-continuity Rampaging Hulk story, in an issue of Rom, and for a panel in the Maximum Security event but not as often as you would expect. You would think an Iron Man appearance would have been a certainty. This issue ended the Hulk’s title. The first setback to the Marvel age of comics. The character wouldn’t appear again until Avengers #1 six months later.
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 2, 2011 6:03:13 GMT -5
The Incredible Hulk 6 The Metal Master By Stan Lee and Steve Ditko Villains: The Metal Master Guest Appearances: Rick Jones
Are there any goofy moments? This doesn’t start to make any sense at all. And it isn’t even really used for any drama inside the story.
The Teen Brigade; with their shouts of ‘last one back is a rotten egg’ begin their brief period of Marvel stardom.
The ending is just stupid. What kind of metal master can’t tell metal from cardboard?
Trivia: Despite the ease with which he was tricked, surely being able to control metal must involve some ability to tell metals from non-metals, the Metal Master seemed to have more potential as a villain than a lot of early Marvel foes.
He has reappeared, in a non-continuity Rampaging Hulk story, in an issue of Rom, and for a panel in the Maximum Security event but not as often as you would expect. You would think an Iron Man appearance would have been a certainty.
This issue ended the Hulk’s title. The first setback to the Marvel age of comics. The character wouldn’t appear again until Avengers #1 six months later.
*sigh* I just feel naked. It's so hard to be a Hulk fan, sometimes. . . The cringe-inducing ending is what's always stuck with me, of course. I'd completely forgotten about the untransformed Banner-head sub-plot. (Which, amazingly, was used again many decades later! Sort of an homage, I suppose. . . ) I didn't care for Ditko's Hulk when I first read this story 'way back when-- but it has since grown on me quite a bit. His run during Tales to Astonish was MUCH heralded-- really, it was treated like a second-coming event on the letters page-- but then it didn't last long at all. Like six months or so, I think. The Hulk series in that book suffered mightily from perpetual artistic turnover (I think I may have documented that in a thread a couple of years ago, in fact). Boy, it'll be awhile before you get back around to ol' Greenskin, eh? That still makes me kinda sad. . . HB
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Post by owene on Apr 3, 2011 1:39:24 GMT -5
*sigh* I just feel naked. It's so hard to be a Hulk fan, sometimes. . . The cringe-inducing ending is what's always stuck with me, of course. I'd completely forgotten about the untransformed Banner-head sub-plot. (Which, amazingly, was used again many decades later! Sort of an homage, I suppose. . . ) Seriously? when did that happen? was it just a panel or two for a laugh in a Peter David comic or did they actually do something with it? You really get the impression that Ditko was Stan's favourite artist. You very rarely get anyone other than stan himself writing for Ditko and he seems to be making more of an effort on those issues. I'm a few months ahead on writing these compared to posting them and there is a huge quality gulf between Spider-Man 2 (well the vulture story at least) and 3 and the rest of the stuff Marvel was putting out. The first few dr Strange stories aren't as good but they do seem to have Stan's full attention which most of the other anthology book super heroes don't. He's also on record saying ditko was his favourite kirby inker, I guess he just really loved the guy's work. avengers isn't that far away but yeah it's a while till he gets his own title again.
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 3, 2011 5:33:22 GMT -5
*sigh* I just feel naked. It's so hard to be a Hulk fan, sometimes. . . The cringe-inducing ending is what's always stuck with me, of course. I'd completely forgotten about the untransformed Banner-head sub-plot. (Which, amazingly, was used again many decades later! Sort of an homage, I suppose. . . ) Seriously? when did that happen? was it just a panel or two for a laugh in a Peter David comic or did they actually do something with it? Wow- that's tough to remember. I think it may have been in that unsettled period right before Peter David took on the writing chores. . . or maybe it was during PAD's run, but after the Pantheon era? Sheesh- or was it even very recently? It's actually the kind of little deep-history detail that Greg Pak has been just fantastic about referencing and including in the book. In fact, I'm inclined to think that might be the case. My reading was completely fragmented by the World War Hulk mega-crossover, and I've never gotten fully, correctly back on track since then. Although I've done a bit of catching up. But to answer your question-- no, it wasn't a particular plot point, I believe it was just a nice reference to an old artifact, as it were. HB
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 3, 2011 5:46:58 GMT -5
Fantastic Four 12 The Incredible Hulk By Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and Dick Ayers.
Forgot to mention that I always considered this an iconic cover, as well. I think it pops up as a collectable item in at least one of the Hulk video games, in fact. I'm not sure it's artistically the very best-- *There's that confusing three-toed Hulk that Kirby seemed to resort to when he was in a rush. *The dominant grey rock & background makes for a dreary visual feel, at best. *It always feels like a slightly out-of-frame photograph--- we're clearly shifted too far to our right in order to include all of the FF. . . but the Hulk is the dramatically interesting figure here. And he's chopped off at our left. And yet. . . it's a perfect, dynamic, "draw-'em-in-with-one-shot" moment! You look at it and think, "Hoo-boy, here we go; this is gonna be good!" I love this cover. . . ;D HB
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Post by sharkar on Apr 5, 2011 18:52:17 GMT -5
My first exposure to Ditko's art was in my first issue of Marvel Collectors Item Classics #12, which featured a double-dose of Ditko: this Ditko Hulk story plus a Ditko Dr. Strange story (along with a Kirby FF and a Heck Iron Man story). I remember thinking wow, this guy's art seemed delicate and wispy and very old-fashioned...and really, really weird. I appreciate Ditko's work much more now. He's also on record saying ditko was his favourite kirby inker, I guess he just really loved the guy's work. Where the monster comic anthologies are concerned, Kirby and Ditko were quite the tag-team, weren't they--Kirby would pencil the covers and Ditko would ink 'em. In fact one of my most treasured comics is Tales of Suspense #10, which features the Kirby-Ditko combo on the cover. Ditko had inked Kirby when Ditko was working at the Simon-Kirby shop for a while in the '50s, but I don't like Ditko inking Kirby on the superhero stuff (such as FF #13)--the two styles really don't mesh IMO. The combo seems better suited for the monster covers I've seen, such as this one.
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Post by owene on Apr 6, 2011 15:02:11 GMT -5
In fact one of my most treasured comics is Tales of Suspense #10, which features the Kirby-Ditko combo on the cover. Ditko had inked Kirby when Ditko was working at the Simon-Kirby shop for a while in the '50s, but I don't like Ditko inking Kirby on the superhero stuff (such as FF #13)--the two styles really don't mesh IMO. The combo seems better suited for the monster covers I've seen, such as this one. I like that, but for similar reasons to liking FF13, which really feels quite spooky in places. The first shots of the blue Area are just pure Ditko, way more than Kirby, and like something from a mystery comic. I love those bits that look like faces and the whole organic insect like feel to the two towers over on the right.
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Post by owene on Apr 6, 2011 15:07:19 GMT -5
Prisoner of the Slave World By Stan Lee with Larry Leiber and Don Heck Villains: the window-washer, Kulla Guest Appearances: none So What Happens?: Eminent scientists keep disappearing so Pym decides to keep his ant costume with him at all times in a shrunken bag. He is soon visited by a window washer who offers to wash Pym’s windows as part of a free trial but then surprises Pym by throwing a bucket of paralysing water over him and whipping out a gizmo that will take them to another dimension. Kulla, the alien ruler of that dimension has been kidnapping human scientists to work on his laser rifle. Pym plays up to get put in solitary confinement and then breaks out his Ant-Man costume to escape his cell. He has soon gained control of some alien insects and returned to the lab of the captured scientists. Cutting his way into the guard’s shoe he creates a nuisance for the guards but is soon drenched in the paralysing water again. Luckily he can still think and manages to mentally command the alien insects to kill Kulla with the ray gun and open the fortresses doors to let Kulla’s rebelling subjects in. Pym and the scientists return home, leaving the treacherous window washer in the other dimension. So is it any good?: It’s pretty dreadful to be honest. You have an alien civilisation capable of dimensional travel and inventing quick acting paralysis weapons who need to kidnap a bunch of human scientists to invent some sort of hand held laser gun. Despite the fact that a few super villains apart earth doesn’t really have death rays at this point to inspire this plan and despite the fact that the aliens at the end are all carrying energy ray weapons. Plus the aliens methods for conducting these kidnappings were to work through a window washer who can get into the scientists homes and kidnap them and who seems to be totally motivated by getting paid by the aliens even though he himself points out the aliens money is useless. Pym goes to great lengths to get free as Ant-Man but is then reduced to hiding from the aliens, and paralysed and hidden in a crack in the floorboards, commanding a bunch of alien bugs to win the day. The plot is very similar to the one in Journey into Mystery 87 in that someone comes to visit prominent scientists to carry out a mundane job before hitting them with advanced technology and sending them to some enemy land. I guess that alien paranoia stories really were interchangeable with commie paranoia ones. Given the storyline the changeover from Kirby to Don Heck isn’t that jarring, in fact you get Pym in a little more action than of late as he is battling alien bugs and dodging guards. Heck actually does a nice job on the various scientists and draws an out of costume Pym really well. He doesn’t play around with the perspective as much as Kirby but he does a nice enough job. Are there any goofy moments?:The scene with Hank and the window washer is hilarious. I also liked the point when Pym carves through the sole of the alien guard’s boot to hide inside it while complaining about the smell of the aliens socks. Trivia: Hank Pym aide nobody from this story ever reappeared or got mentioned again. Is it a landmark?: No
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Post by owene on Apr 8, 2011 14:08:31 GMT -5
Spider-Man. By Stan Lee and Steve Ditko Villains: None Guest Appearances: John Jameson So what happens?:
Peter is overcome by guilt about Uncle Ben’s death and May is struggling to pay the bills. He decides to put on a show as Spider-Man and raise the money May needs. The show is a huge hit but he soon finds that a cheque in the name of Spider-Man isn’t much use to solve his money worries.
To make matters worse further shows are impossible as the Daily Bugle, and editor J Jonah Jameson’s TV appearances are all campaigning against Spider-Man as a bad influence on children. It seems that Spider-Man taking the limelight from Jameson’s astronaut son John is half the problem.
Without the Spider-Man money Aunt May is reduced to pawning her jewellery and Peter rages at the injustice of it all.
Peter goes to watch John Jameson’s rocket launch only for it to fail to launch properly, leaving Jameson’s capsule dangerously orbiting the earth with a vital component damaged. Peter changes into Spider-Man.
He crashes into the control room to grab the vital component and then forces his way onto a nearby air-field and commandeers a jet. Waiting on top of the jet for the capsule to fly past again he webs onto it and climbs aboard the speeding space craft. He quickly fits the component and allows the capsule to land safely.
Everyone involved in the space launch is pleased with him but Jonah Jameson still runs headlines about spider-man sabotaging the launch leaving Peter in the same dire straits as before.
So is it any good?: Taking the plot at face value, no it’s not. The plot is full of holes from the start and largely seems to be set up to show the world being as unfair as possible to Peter
On the other hand if you ignore the fact that almost none of it makes sense it is gorgeously drawn in a way that delivers a totally different kind of story than Kirby was doing in Marvel’s other titles. As melodramatic (and nonsensical) as a lot of it is you do really feel for Peter and Ditko also makes the physical super heroics far more dynamic than Kirby was doing at that point.
In J Jonah Jameson you immediately have an adversary with more personality than any of the ones featured in Marvel comics to this point. I guess technically he is a supporting character (and as such is again far more interesting than any others featured so far, which is essentially just Alicia Masters, Jane Foster and some ants) but here he is the figure who embodies the world’s displeasure and unwillingness to give Peter Parker an even break.
Ditko runs the full range of (negative) moods in his visual depictions of him but it’s not all ditko’s show, you can feel stan having a lot more fun with this title than he ever had on Ant-Man or the Human Torch and immediately it feels like it belongs with the Fantastic Four at the top table of Marvel’s books.
Are there any goofy moments? The whole space ship section is very dramatic and works within the story while making absolutely no sense. It is launched from New York and then keeps flying past the one place on the globe where Spider-Man is waiting to jump from a moving jet onto its nose before he can fix its technical difficulties whilst holding onto it. Probably best to just draw a line under it all and move on really.
The cheque in the name of spider-Man is also fairly silly. I can see the dramatic point but the guy writing the cheque actually points out that it will be uncashable and asks Pete if he wants the money some other way. Surely until the cheque is cashed Peter would be within his rights to go back and ask for his payment in cash.
Trivia:John Jameson has appeared in a variety of roles over the years and as a supporting character in titles as varied as She Hulk and Captain America. Kurt Busiek retroactively gave him a few early outings in the pages of Untold Tales of Spider-Man but he actually next appeared soon after Ditko left in a storyline starting in issue 41.
I’m fairly sure that Aunt May was later shown to own their Forest Hills home. Here she is renting it and has a hard time raising the rent money.
Is it a landmark?: Yes, as the first issue of spider-man and introduction of Jonah Jameson.
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 8, 2011 19:11:57 GMT -5
In fact one of my most treasured comics is Tales of Suspense #10, which features the Kirby-Ditko combo on the cover. Ditko had inked Kirby when Ditko was working at the Simon-Kirby shop for a while in the '50s, but I don't like Ditko inking Kirby on the superhero stuff (such as FF #13)--the two styles really don't mesh IMO. The combo seems better suited for the monster covers I've seen, such as this one. I like that, but for similar reasons to liking FF13, which really feels quite spooky in places. The first shots of the blue Area are just pure Ditko, way more than Kirby, and like something from a mystery comic. I love those bits that look like faces and the whole organic insect like feel to the two towers over on the right. "And That's the Rest of the Story" Dept. Wow, this cover (and the story) were reprinted in Where Monsters Dwell #1-- one of my first Marvel comic books, which I still have (albeit coverless and crumbling apart. . . ). I had no clue at the time that it was a reprint, of course. But that cover is another one that's always stuck with me--- despite the fact (now that I'm older & cursed- possibly- w/ a more critical eye) that it's almost laughably implausible-! Where in the ice, exactly, was that arm before? How can the scientist not hear this massive upheaval behind him?? How can the arm be animated while the torso is still clearly paralyzed?? What's goin' on with the perspective; re: relationship of girl to arm to scientist to rest of Cyclops' body??? Aaaaaand that Fantastic Four frame? Yep, indelibly stamped from an equally ragged early issue of Collector's Item Classics. This is the panel that always comes to mind when the "old" blue area is referenced. *sigh*--- serious nostalgia wave comin' on. . . HB
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Post by owene on Apr 9, 2011 16:17:43 GMT -5
I think my first encounter with the Blue area was in the Dark Pheonix saga where Byrne practically recreates that panel. the Kirby/Ditko one is a lot spookier but I quite like the way that by Claremont/Byrne's time it has become one of the classic locations of the Marvel Universe.
Of course Byrne went and put attilan on top of it, removing two of those classics in one go.
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Post by owene on Apr 9, 2011 16:24:55 GMT -5
Now the rest of spider-man 1 Spider-Man. By Stan Lee and Steve Ditko Villains: The Chameleon Guest Appearances: The Fantastic Four So what happens?:Still broke and still wanted by the FBI Peter decides he has got fix his money worries and his reputation by joining the Fantastic Four. He manages to sneak inside the Baxter Building and hold his own against the team but is disappointed when he learns they aren’t making money from super hero-ing either and that they too consider him an outlaw. With anti-spider-Man stories rampant soviet spy the Chameleon decides to make use of the fledgling hero. Using a frequency hearable with spider-sense he broadcasts a message offering spider-man a financial windfall if he comes to a certain point that night. The master of disguise then dresses as spider-man and steals a set of defence plans, leaving a bunch of witnesses webbed up with a makeshift web-gun. As Spider-Man arrives for his rendezvous the chameleon escapes in a helicopter and he is confronted by armed police thinking he is the spy. Webbing the policemen to the wall Spider-Man heads after the Chameleon, bouncing across the city to the sea and then using a motorboat to follow the spy to his meeting with an offshore commie sub. Spider-Man webs up the conning tower and causes the sub to flee leaving the Chameleon to be captured. Spider-Man brings him ashore for the police but he manages to get free again in a cloud of smoke and disguise himself as a policeman. With spider-Man still wanted by the police there is a desperate threeway battle before Spider-Man rips through the chameleon’s disguise and leaves him to be arrested. Spider-Man flees the scene and gains even more negative press leaving the Fantastic Four to wonder how long Spider-Man will remain a good guy. So is it any good?: Yes, on the face of it this is just another commie spy story revolving around yet another master of disguise. However it works extremely well, Ditko’s art is incredibly dynamic. The ‘battle’ with the Fantastic Four is in many ways a better showcase for their physical powers than anything we have seen to date in FF and Spider-Man’s journey across the rooftops to follow the Chameleon is also incredibly done. I’m a huge Ditko fan and this issue is immediately on a higher level than most of the preceding Marvel hero stories because of the art. The cloying atmosphere also works incredibly well. While it would occasionally tip over into self parody the feeling that the whole world is against Spider-Man is a huge part of this story and a face-changing villain fits into that perfectly. Peter is trusting and gets used easily by the Chameleon, he tries to get his message across to the police and the Fantastic Four and again and again he is doubted and thrown back. It gives the commie spy story a heightened, paranoid feel that suits it extremely well. The Chameleon, a literally faceless villain, isn’t particularly full of charisma but he does a good job of making Peter seem powerless and out of control of events which is one of the keys of a good spider-man story. The idea that Peter might turn to crime driven by a mixture of money worries and lack of respect is used nicely, it never really comes to much but it was a good touch having the story end with the FF worrying about what will happen to Spider-Man, it immediately sets out the idea that Spider-Man is a totally different type of hero than the more established FF. Are there any goofy moments? It can be put down to the novelty of the concept but Peter being able to tune in his spider-sense to hear broadcast messages is a bit weird, it suggests that they were initially seeing the spider-sense as something like Ant-Man’s cybernetic link to insect wavelengths. Even allowing for his powers being a bit undefined at this point how did the Chameleon know he even had spider-senses? Trivia: The Chameleon would next appear, in a secondary role in the first Kraven the Hunter story. It would be his connection to Kraven, eventually confirmed as being half-brothers that led to a lot of his appearances in the 1990s and up to the present day. Despite being the first super villain Spider-Man fought it took a long time for him to really make his mark. Aside from that minor appearance in issue 15 he waited until issue 80 to reappear and then disappeared until issue 186. Spider-Man’s encounter with the Fantastic Four in this story was retold in Fantastic Four annual 1 with Kirby pencilling but some Ditko inks to keep consistency. Is it a landmark?: The Chameleon is still appearing quite frequently and Peter has finally got to join the FF so yes.
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