Question about Thor & Loki's childhood

[dinosaurneil2]

Can anyone tell me if their childhood together was ever shown? I'm wondering about their ages, are they roughly the same age or is one supposed to be slightly older? Was this ever shown?

[Shiryu]

Yes, it has been shown at least once, possibly more, in minis and one shots. There is one in particular that I recall (Thor Son of Asgard possibly? or Young Thor?) set when they were more or less children, and they seem to have the same age, give or take an year

EDIT: yes, it was Thor Son of Asgard.

[dinosaurneil2]

It was a busy year for Odin; sleep with Gaea, have a kid, war with Frost Giants, kill Laufey, adopt another kid. I was hoping it would be ambiguous or Loki was slightly older.

[Shiryu]

I don't think they ever clearly specified who is older than whom, they just look like two kids of the same age. However, the same mini shows Sif as a girl of Thor's age, whereas in the early stories by Lee and Kirby, Thor remembers bouncing the little baby Sif on his knees, impliying that he is much older. This has probably been retconned later.

Regarding the brothers, as far as I can remember, even the myth doesn't clearly state who is older between Thor and Loki. However I think in comics it has been indirectly implied that Thor is actually the elder brother. When Odin dies, it's Thor who receives the Odinpower and becomes king, two things that usually follow the firstborn in the bloodline. It also makes sense for younger Loki to be jelous of his "perfect" older brother, many younger siblings are known to feel like that at times.

[humanbelly]

Aug 9, 2010 14:02:39 GMT -5 dinosaurneil2 said:

It was a busy year for Odin; sleep with Gaea, have a kid, war with Frost Giants, kill Laufey, adopt another kid. I was hoping it would be ambiguous or Loki was slightly older.

This also kind of begets the question about just how long is an Asgardian God childhood? Do they still grow right up in 18 to 21 years, or is it also a proportionately slow process? Given the fact that the Asgardians don't seem to be psychologically any more sound than we mortals, I can't imagine any Asgardian parent surviving living with a 2-year-old who is two years old for, like, 135 years. Or 500 years of teenage angst. I know, I know-- it's all make-believe-- but it still sort of has to make sense, y'know?

Heh. Dinosaur Neil. From the intial run of The Tick AND the later FOX cartoon. Ohhhhh great stuff. . . ! (Welcome aboard-!)

HB

[Shiryu]

Don't Asgardians grow up (more or less) as normal until teenagerhood, whey they eat Idunn's apples for the first time?

It might be totally wrong, but I have a vague memory of reading something about this before, possibly on Wikipedia?

[humanbelly]

Hey, quick Thor question/thought from Son of HB (while we're on the subject). Thor is the offspring of Odin & Gaia/Gaea (Mother Nature, sort of), yes? Could his vast elemental power over storm, lightning & dimensions actually be something inherited from his mother, rather than a direct aspect of his hammer's powers? And that the hammer has always been a means of channeling & focusing that nearly-uncontrollable power-- without Thor ever being aware of it? That would be kind of neat, and in fact makes a bit of sense.

Has something like that ever been touched on?

HB--- ever-curious.

[humanbelly]

Aug 9, 2010 15:29:07 GMT -5 Shiryu said:

Don't Asgardians grow up (more or less) as normal until teenagerhood, whey they eat Idunn's apples for the first time?

It might be totally wrong, but I have a vague memory of reading something about this before, possibly on Wikipedia?

Ha! Well, that would certainly solve the "I'm gonna kill that kid someday" peril. Clearly even the writers of Norse mythology were aware of the rigors of child-rearing.

HB

[Shiryu]

Aug 9, 2010 15:32:59 GMT -5 humanbelly said:

Hey, quick Thor question/thought from Son of HB (while we're on the subject). Thor is the offspring of Odin & Gaia/Gaea (Mother Nature, sort of), yes? Could his vast elemental power over storm, lightning & dimensions actually be something inherited from his mother, rather than a direct aspect of his hammer's powers? And that the hammer has always been a means of channeling & focusing that nearly-uncontrollable power-- without Thor ever being aware of it? That would be kind of neat, and in fact makes a bit of sense.

Has something like that ever been touched on?

Yep, I think it was touched on here and there and then put together and rationalised in the handbooks. The power over lightning/storm/wind/rain and so on certainly comes from the hammer. A wonderfully-drawn LS (art by Steve Rude if I recall the name correctly) titled Thor: Godstorm also goes further indicating that storms are actually living, sentient Asgardian beings, who either are bound or spontaneously offer their power to Thor when he is in need.

However, being the son of Gaia he has some rarely-used powers involving control over the earth, last mentioned at some point at the beginning of V3 I think, as well as vastly more strenght than the average Asgardian.

A summary of his powers from Wikipedia (not always the best source, but pretty accurate here as it's based on the handbooks)
And BTW this reminds me that we haven't seen his magical belt in decades at least!

Like all Asgardians, Thor is not truly immortal but relies upon periodic consumption of the Golden Apples of Idunn to sustain his lifespan, which to date has lasted many millennia. Being the son of Odin and the elder goddess Gaea, the character is physically the strongest of the Norse gods, and has performed such feats as almost lifting the entire World Serpent[115] (stated to encircle the Earth multiple times)[116] and hurling the Odinsword, an enormous mystical blade of incalculable weight, through a Celestial.[117] If pressed in battle, Thor is also capable of entering into a state known as the "Warrior's Madness" ("berserksgangr" in Norse), which will temporarily increase his strength tenfold.[118]

The character also possesses high resistance to physical injury;(e.g. rocket fire;[119] intense cold;[120] falls from orbital heights[121] and the gravity of a neutron star[122]) superhuman senses ("super-breath" [123]; tracking objects traveling faster than light;[124] hearing cries from the other side of the planet[125]); speed; agility and reflexes enabling him to make trenches before even Quicksilver could react.[126] Thor has also shown the ability to regenerate when wounded.[127] Like all Asgardians he has resistance to all Earthly diseases and some resistance to magic. However, magic exceeding the Odinforce, like Dormammu's, can overwhelm the enchantment that transforms him between immortal and mortal forms.[128]

As the Norse god of Thunder, Thor can summon the elements of the storm (lightning; rain; wind; snow) and uses Mjolnir as a tool to focus this ability. As the son of the Earth goddess Gaea, Thor has shown some control over the Earth.[129]

The character is a superb hand-to-hand combatant, and also skilled in armed combat, excelling in the use of the war hammer, sword and mace. Thor possesses two items which assist him in combat: the enchanted Belt of Strength, and his mystical hammer Mjolnir. The first item doubles Thor's strength and endurance[130] while the second is used to control his weather abilities; flight; energy projection and absorption; dimensional apertures; matter manipulation and the most powerful of his offensives, the God Blast (which taps into Thor's life force and has driven back a weakened Galactus),[131], the Thermo-blast (which has challenged Ego the Living Planet),[132] and the Anti-Force (which counteracts another force).[133] Using Mjolnir, Thor can also travel at supersonic speeds in Earth's atmosphere and travel faster than light in space. Thor also uses a chariot drawn by two huge mystical goats called Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder.[134]

After Odin's death, Thor inherited his father's power, the Odinforce. Thor becomes capable of feats such as reconstructing the Earth's Moon,[135] willing the Asgardian monster Mangog into nothingness,[136] and, by focusing his entire power into a hammer throw, decapitating a Desak-occupied Destroyer.[137] Thor also acquires mastery of the Runes, and a level of enlightenment that allows him to free Asgard from the eternal cycle of Ragnarok.[138]

As Donald Blake he is a highly trained and licensed physician and surgeon.

When Mjolnir is damaged, the Odinforce is transferred by Doctor Strange from Thor to the hammer, as the power is required to restore it. However, doing so has also bound Thor's own life force into Mjolnir, meaning that if the hammer were to be broken again, Thor would also die

[dlw66]

If you seek out the recently-released Tales of Asgard hardcover (which actually reprints the mini-series that reprinted the classic Lee/Kirby stories that were back-ups way, way back when), you'll find a few stories of Thor and Loki as youths. Another source that reprinted the specific stories of which I'm thinking was the mid-70's Bring on the Bad Guys tpb.

Hope that helps -- maybe I'm off base...

Doug

[sharkar]

Not off base at all; Tales of Asgard is the perfect place to start. You can begin with the ToA story in Journey into Mystery #112 that features the birth of baby Loki (he's adorable! ;D) and go on from there. As dlw stated, these stories have been recently released in a collection; they're also included in the first two or three Essential Thor volumes.

[humanbelly]

Aug 9, 2010 17:03:56 GMT -5 Shiryu said:

[

Yep, I think it was touched on here and there and then put together and rationalised in the handbooks. The power over lightning/storm/wind/rain and so on certainly comes from the hammer. A wonderfully-drawn LS (art by Steve Rude if I recall the name correctly) titled Thor: Godstorm also goes further indicating that storms are actually living, sentient Asgardian beings, who either are bound or spontaneously offer their power to Thor when he is in need.

However, being the son of Gaia he has some rarely-used powers involving control over the earth, last mentioned at some point at the beginning of V3 I think, as well as vastly more strenght than the average Asgardian.

A summary of his powers from Wikipedia (not always the best source, but pretty accurate here as it's based on the handbooks)
And BTW this reminds me that we haven't seen his magical belt in decades at least!

][/quote]

Thanks much, Shiryu. This, and that wikipedia entry, were very helpful. I've gotta make a point of checking it out when I'm plagued with these questions. . .

Boy, a lot of Thor's powers (especially in those early stories) just smack of deus ex machina, don't they? Taken in whole, they make him an absurdly powerful and unbeatable character---- and so many of them seem to be ones he never, never uses (like his belt of strength enhancement). And man, if he was ever going to surrender to that berserker rage thingy, it would have been in that recent arc w/ Doom & the Destroyer armor (what with tortured, murdered, & desecrated Asgardians being involved)--- and yet it didn't happen.
And the super-vision and super-hearing? Heh-- sounds like ol' Stan just writing by the seat of his pants again to fit what was goin' on in the panel in front of him-! Although in retrospect, a case could be made that a "god" would indeed have such gifts due to the simple fact that he's a god. Or perhaps it synchs up with the unimaginably-advanced-technology route? Attribute it all to- what- nanites, maybe? Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmm. There's a thought. Perhaps those special Apples they eat are a way of introducing benevolent, self-replicating nanites into their system. . . hence all of this incredibly enhanced physiognomy and instances of special powers (the exact origins of which the Asgardians themselves don't seem to have an exact grasp of?)??

Hey, am I having an original thought here, or has this too been tossed around the ballpark already?

HB

[Doctor Bong]

Some years ago, Thor lost his powers and he was dying as well (some sort of business about a scientist taping into the power of the World-Tree...). At about that time, some secondary character -I forget if it was a journalist or a cop- was speculating along these very same lines: whether the asgardians were using a technology created by their ancestors, so advanced that even themselves thought of it as magic but that in reality was extremely advanced science.
And, if I'm not mistaken, something like that was also mentioned in the mini Earth X, but then, this being a different reality, is non-canonical for Earth 616.

[humanbelly]

Aug 11, 2010 15:05:04 GMT -5 Doctor Bong said:

Some years ago, Thor lost his powers and he was dying as well (some sort of business about a scientist taping into the power of the World-Tree...). At about that time, some secondary character -I forget if it was a journalist or a cop- was speculating along these very same lines: whether the asgardians were using a technology created by their ancestors, so advanced that even themselves thought of it as magic but that in reality was extremely advanced science.
And, if I'm not mistaken, something like that was also mentioned in the mini Earth X, but then, this being a different reality, is non-canonical for Earth 616.

Thanks Bong-- yep, I think I recall that arc, now (it, heh, "rings a bell. . . " *snicker*. . . stealin' yer tagline, there. . . )

Think it was a point where I picked up a few consecutive issues, and tried to fill in a few more from the grocery store. Mike Deadato was the artist? Thor was very isolated and depowered, and was being supported by (AND was more or less romantically involved with) the Enchantress? I could be mistaken, but I think it never had an actual resolution because the title was gobbled up by Heroes Reborn and, as with Teen Tony, the departing status quo was scarcely ever acknowledged, let alone properly dealt with or resolved.

That may be where I picked up the nanite (nannite?) idea, though. Son of HB says it's a ridiculously obvious concept, of course that's how the Asgardians' powers would work, that it barely merits discussion, and (unspoken) clearly by even talking about it I'm embarrassing him beyond the point of survival.

Teenagers.

HB

[Shiryu]

I think I prefer the traditional magic explanation, the science hypothesis sounds a bit too much like Stargate SG1.