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Post by starfoxxx on Jul 31, 2010 16:17:25 GMT -5
I liked this issue a lot more than #1. The art and colors are great. The Finesse/Quicksilver scene was very interesting: I like how Gage writes character interaction. Question: Did Hank mean Janet (was) older than him, or older than Finesse is now? The worst part is that horrible, horrible "Wasp" costume.....blecchhhhh. I will continue to pick this up, it's a lot like Avengers:Initiative, and I stuck with that for the whole run. Gage continues to write without ignoring the shadowing "mega-events", but telling nice stories around them.
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Post by sharkar on Aug 3, 2010 20:02:44 GMT -5
I just bought the first two issues and I agree, I like #2 better...no surprise, because #2 is more Pietro-centric than #1 was! I loved the walk down Quicksilver memory lane. (As an aside, baby Luna looks like a miniature Pietro--little tufts in the white hair, green clothing--instead of the usual way Luna has been depicted as a baby, as a mini-Crystal clone). If Pietro continues to play a big role here I'll definitely keep reading this series. I also like Hank's characterization, though the tunic he wears as the Wasp does him no favors--or as Starfoxxx so aptly put it: "blecchhhhh"! Looking forward to the next issue...particularly Finesse's interactions with Pietro and Hank. Question: Did Hank mean Janet (was) older than him, or older than Finesse is now? The latter. When Hank and Jan met, Jan was older (say, 18 or 19) than Finesse is now (14, 15,16).
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 10, 2010 15:03:21 GMT -5
So I went ahead & picked it up as well, and I find I like it quite a bit. And I'm about as skeptical as they come when it comes to "misunderstood, outcast teenager group" books. I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere, but how many have there been here at ol' Marvel?? Off the top of my head:
Original X-Men New Mutants Generation X New Warriors Runaways Young Avengers
Man, and I know I'm missing some easy ones somewhere there.
BUT-- these kids are being written well, I think-- avoiding the most hapless of one-dimensional cliches. And with Hank, Pietro, and Jocasta on hand it does feel like a smooth enough transition from Mighty Avengers. In fact, I daresay Hank sounds more like "Hank" here than he did in MA, in all fairness.
I'm liking the fact that they've officially declared these kids NOT mutants (although, geeze, what the heck are they, then? If, by and large, their powers pop out at puberty or exist at birth, I'm not sure what else they could be called.). Also liking the fact that, rather than one token "tragic" member, there are at least three whose powers can rightfully be labeled as an affliction or even a curse. This is an unusual dynamic-- much more like the old Doom Patrol, in a way.
Hmm. You know what? I'm realizing that I like it because it's about all of these people, and not just about what's happening (i.e. the plot). I would contrast this with Secret Avengers which, I'm afraid, isn't grabbing me as much as I'd hoped-- mostly because it's ALL plot (and rather slow-moving at this point), and not a lick of characterization or even meaningful interaction between the members of the team. People first, writers-- make them people first.
HB
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Post by bobc on Aug 23, 2010 12:47:17 GMT -5
I LOVE this book! Starry is so right--Gage is actually renewing my faith that writers today can actually write dialogue! He's like Bendis' polar opposite!
I also agree that the "Wasp's" costume sucks. Can someone fill me in as to why and when the real Wasp was killed? In a sense it seems like taking over your dead wife's identity is really bad taste.
Anyway--love the interactions between Tigra, Quicksilver and Finesse. I've never mentioned this on the forum before, but before I got into the art field I was a house-parent for emotionally disturbed children and had lots of experience with borderline (sociopath/psychotic) kids. Gage has nailed it with Finesse. These children have no empathy whatsoever with other kids but they learn, over time, to say all the right things to make you think they do. This emotional deadness is truly creepy and can raise the hair on the back of your neck.
This book is great and can't wait for the next issue!
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Post by sharkar on Aug 25, 2010 20:06:50 GMT -5
Anyway--love the interactions between Tigra, Quicksilver and Finesse. I've never mentioned this on the forum before, but before I got into the art field I was a house-parent for emotionally disturbed children and had lots of experience with borderline (sociopath/psychotic) kids. Gage has nailed it with Finesse. These children have no empathy whatsoever with other kids but they learn, over time, to say all the right things to make you think they do. This emotional deadness is truly creepy and can raise the hair on the back of your neck. Just curious, bobc, since you're an artist, did you incorporate art as a way of connecting with these kids? My sister worked with emotionally disturbed adults a while back and I recall her mentioning they (and she) really enjoyed participating in drawing/painting sessions. Regarding Avengers Academy, if anyone's read #3, I'd love to know what they thought of it. I flipped through #3 in the store but did not feel compelled to buy it, mostly because... SPOILER ...#3 did not appear to focus on Pietro or Hank. I wanted to see a follow up to their dealings with Finesse, but I guess I'll have to wait for a later issue.
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Post by bobc on Aug 26, 2010 9:01:35 GMT -5
Hey Sharky
I actually connected very well with the kids--in fact several of them have contacted me recently even though I worked with them almost 20 years ago. We used art all the time--writing and sports, too. These things helped the kids who were "products of their environment" (in other words, they grew up with crazy people raising them). We did have a few budding sociopaths, however, and nothing really worked on them. One boy was setting fires since he was 2 years old, and it was virtually impossible to prevent him from doing it because he was ingenious at finding ways to start fired. When he was five, he basically burnt down several houses on his block so he had to be institutionalized just as he was turning six. He never left the institutions, either. By the time I got him, "Doug" was 15 and you could not believe one thing that ever came out of his mouth. He'd lie even when there was no reason whatsoever to do so. Doug had zero abuse in his background (that we knew of) and over time I grew to understand that most crazy kids are simply products of the insanity their parent (s) raise them in--but there are a minority of disturbed kids who have something organically wrong with them. There is an emotional deadness about them that you sort of have to feel to understand. It's pretty scary, really.
I am hoping Finesse is one of these kids--it'll be fascinating if handled well.
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 26, 2010 15:32:19 GMT -5
Hey Sharky I actually connected very well with the kids--in fact several of them have contacted me recently even though I worked with them almost 20 years ago. We used art all the time--writing and sports, too. These things helped the kids who were "products of their environment" (in other words, they grew up with crazy people raising them). We did have a few budding sociopaths, however, and nothing really worked on them. One boy was setting fires since he was 2 years old, and it was virtually impossible to prevent him from doing it because he was ingenious at finding ways to start fired. When he was five, he basically burnt down several houses on his block so he had to be institutionalized just as he was turning six. He never left the institutions, either. By the time I got him, "Doug" was 15 and you could not believe one thing that ever came out of his mouth. He'd lie even when there was no reason whatsoever to do so. Doug had zero abuse in his background (that we knew of) and over time I grew to understand that most crazy kids are simply products of the insanity their parent (s) raise them in--but there are a minority of disturbed kids who have something organically wrong with them. There is an emotional deadness about them that you sort of have to feel to understand. It's pretty scary, really. I am hoping Finesse is one of these kids--it'll be fascinating if handled well. My mother taught elementary school for about a million years, and would occassionally come across an anomolous kid like that. One in particular (in 2nd grade) had mastered being able to pass himself off as the same as everyone else, but then yielded gleefully to his darker nature the instant he thought he had a solid opportunity. His folks were lower income, but just regular folks who were at their wits' end about what to do with this clever, violent, remorseless and deceptive (yet charismatic) child. I believe he was permanently institutionalized by 4th or 5th grade (several violent in-class episodes--- tried repeatedly to stab a smaller classmate in the face with a pencil, for instance), and actually was difficult for the institution to handle-- kept finding ways to escape, or would manipulate support staff's sympathies, or become wildly, unexpectedly violent at very critical times--- very scary. Someone that you just hope will never, ever find their way into society. HB
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Post by bobc on Aug 26, 2010 16:27:11 GMT -5
Man, HB--did you ever nail it. They are incredibly charismatic, and are very skilled at getting naive adults to believe they are angels and are getting picked on. They could even manipulate seasoned professionals and you'd be surprised how often they could pit one professional against another. I recall one boy named Jesse who was almost 15 but looked like he was twelve, and he one of the few kids at our facility who was allowed to still go to public school. He looked like a typical cute, chubby kid. One day when Jesse was at school, I got a call from his principal who informed me "Either you come and get Jesse, or THE POLICE WILL." I got to the school, only to find Jesse giggling like a crazy person, chasing his teacher around with a pair of scissors. I got the scissors away from him, got him back to our treatment center--but that was when he truly went psychotic. He was made to strip down to his underwear (a tactic to keep them from running away) but he ran around the cottage, grabbing whatever he could find to stab himself with. I ended up having to physically restrain him but eventually he became so slick with sweat that I could barely hold him! Throughout the whole ordeal he was giggling and making really, really scary, nasty sounds. I could certainly see how, in times gone by, people would think a kid like this was possessed.
We never knew what set this episode off, but he never was allowed to go to public school again. The next day he acted like nothing happened and convinced his new on-campus school teacher (who should have known better) that we were abusing Jesse and made the whole incident up.
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Post by bobc on Aug 27, 2010 11:44:58 GMT -5
Back to the topic:
I just read AA #3, and it is PHENOMENAL. This book is so refreshing, so well written, so filled with suspense that I find myself looking forward to each new issue! The writer actually makes a reference to one of my favorite bands, the Smiths--did anyone else catch that?
This is one GREAT book. Top notch!
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Post by spiderwasp on Aug 27, 2010 23:51:32 GMT -5
Back to the topic: I just read AA #3, and it is PHENOMENAL. This book is so refreshing, so well written, so filled with suspense that I find myself looking forward to each new issue! The writer actually makes a reference to one of my favorite bands, the Smiths--did anyone else catch that? This is one GREAT book. Top notch! I honestly could not agree more. This is a quote from me before the first issue of this book came out. [/quote] The more I see of this, the less interested I am. [/quote] Here's me now: This has become my favorite regular title (Children's Crusade is limited and has only had one issue. Otherwise, it is also in the running.) Academy has interesting characters having interesting interactions. It is well paced and intriguing. I can't wait till next issue.
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 28, 2010 6:25:11 GMT -5
Man, HB--did you ever nail it. They are incredibly charismatic, and are very skilled at getting naive adults to believe they are angels and are getting picked on. They could even manipulate seasoned professionals and you'd be surprised how often they could pit one professional against another. I recall one boy named Jesse who was almost 15 but looked like he was twelve, and he one of the few kids at our facility who was allowed to still go to public school. He looked like a typical cute, chubby kid. One day when Jesse was at school, I got a call from his principal who informed me "Either you come and get Jesse, or THE POLICE WILL." I got to the school, only to find Jesse giggling like a crazy person, chasing his teacher around with a pair of scissors. I got the scissors away from him, got him back to our treatment center--but that was when he truly went psychotic. He was made to strip down to his underwear (a tactic to keep them from running away) but he ran around the cottage, grabbing whatever he could find to stab himself with. I ended up having to physically restrain him but eventually he became so slick with sweat that I could barely hold him! Throughout the whole ordeal he was giggling and making really, really scary, nasty sounds. I could certainly see how, in times gone by, people would think a kid like this was possessed. We never knew what set this episode off, but he never was allowed to go to public school again. The next day he acted like nothing happened and convinced his new on-campus school teacher (who should have known better) that we were abusing Jesse and made the whole incident up. Good guh-RIEF! First of all, bobc, I'm giving you a totally non-comic-related exalt for having taken on such a difficult and harrowing task back then. Wow--- don't think I'd have the wherewithall (or even the presence of mind) to handle it at all-! And yep, your account of Jesse's case is uncannily like this other kid's (Justin, I think his name was) from over 20 years ago. Even down to the obviously fabricated accusations of abuse. Wow-- HB
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 28, 2010 6:42:42 GMT -5
Anyway--love the interactions between Tigra, Quicksilver and Finesse. I've never mentioned this on the forum before, but before I got into the art field I was a house-parent for emotionally disturbed children and had lots of experience with borderline (sociopath/psychotic) kids. Gage has nailed it with Finesse. These children have no empathy whatsoever with other kids but they learn, over time, to say all the right things to make you think they do. This emotional deadness is truly creepy and can raise the hair on the back of your neck. Just curious, bobc, since you're an artist, did you incorporate art as a way of connecting with these kids? My sister worked with emotionally disturbed adults a while back and I recall her mentioning they (and she) really enjoyed participating in drawing/painting sessions. Regarding Avengers Academy, if anyone's read #3, I'd love to know what they thought of it. I flipped through #3 in the store but did not feel compelled to buy it, mostly because... SPOILER ...#3 did not appear to focus on Pietro or Hank. I wanted to see a follow up to their dealings with Finesse, but I guess I'll have to wait for a later issue. This could be its one drawback, perhaps. The cast is kind of too large--- the Academy kids themselves, and then the Established Avengers Team that's teaching them. There's a danger of disappointing a lot of readers by not focusing enough on their respective favorites (the way Shar would like to see more Pietro, f'rinstance). Quick question: Was the Hank Pym that was having a fling with Tigra during Secret Invasion a Skrull, then? I seem to remember that being the case, but wasn't sure. (And if not, then boy their interaction in these pages seems about as weird as a 6$ bill!) HB
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Post by bobc on Aug 28, 2010 11:00:40 GMT -5
HB--I don't think there are too many characters. For me, the mark of "too many characters" is when I stop caring about them--and after only three issues, I absolutely love these kids! I haven't cared about a superhero group like this since the New X-Men came out in '75. Make no mistake here--even though there are plenty of Avengers running in and out, the focus is always on the core kids.
Who is this Gage guy? He is AMAZING. Is he new? His ability to write moody, immature kid dialogue is just amazing to me. I'm not going to do a spoiler here, but what a couple of the kids plan at the end of the "Scared Straight" storyline in issue #3 is really, really brilliant! It's the first time I've been able to take Osbourne seriously in his recent ascension in the Marvel echelon.
I love that the Academy kids are kinda sneaky and think they are smarter than the grown ups. I also love how they fight with each other, too.
The scene with Valkyrie is HILARIOUS. Purists may complain that V is too "Asgardian" but I found the whole sequence very funny.
I think Gage is my favorite writer now!
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 28, 2010 15:52:19 GMT -5
HB--I don't think there are too many characters. For me, the mark of "too many characters" is when I stop caring about them--and after only three issues, I absolutely love these kids! I haven't cared about a superhero group like this since the New X-Men came out in '75. Make no mistake here--even though there are plenty of Avengers running in and out, the focus is always on the core kids. Who is this Gage guy? He is AMAZING. Is he new? His ability to write moody, immature kid dialogue is just amazing to me. I'm not going to do a spoiler here, but what a couple of the kids plan at the end of the "Scared Straight" storyline in issue #3 is really, really brilliant! It's the first time I've been able to take Osbourne seriously in his recent ascension in the Marvel echelon. I love that the Academy kids are kinda sneaky and think they are smarter than the grown ups. I also love how they fight with each other, too. The scene with Valkyrie is HILARIOUS. Purists may complain that V is too "Asgardian" but I found the whole sequence very funny. I think Gage is my favorite writer now! Yeah, yeah-- as always, bobc ol' sport, you manage to convince me to adopt your point of view. I think that must be your subtle, undiscovered superpower. . . ;D I just got halfway through the third issue, and SonofHB has taken it away while I sit here at the keyboard. This is undeniably good comics--- I'm completely on board with it, and I was DEEPLY skeptical; proFOUNDLY; undeNIABLY. . . I like your comparison to the early New Mutants--- I think that's very apt, as at that point we were interested in those kids as people more than we were about their roles as superheroes (I mean, how long was it before Danielle Moonstar had an actual codename?). Hey, and I think I'm getting a handle on Brunhilde/Valkyrie now after serious confusion a few months ago. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the Samantha Parrington version of Val, yes? The one who originally (and solely) appeared in . . . Incredible Hulk #142? (YES! The Hulk is once again the book-of-origin for a notable character! Wolverine! Rocket Raccoon! Samantha/Valkyrie!) Samantha was a hopelessly pampered feminist radical wannabe, and this version of Val is particularly consistent with that one. And I do believe I read somewhere recently that this was indeed "Sam". I'm kinda fuzzy on how Val seems to be able to exist as both a corporeal entity at times, and then as a "possessing" entity (ala Barbara Norriss), but I'm sure there's an explanation bouncing around somewheres. . . Man, great scene w/ her, Tigra, and the girls. . . A touch squirmy, perhaps. . . heh. . . HB (edit: well, duh-- I, of course, picked up Val's updated bio when I was browsing through the Marvel Encyclopedia! How could I forget that? And all of my questions were pretty much answered right there. It's all about properly using reference materials. . . )
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Post by sharkar on Aug 30, 2010 12:05:12 GMT -5
Good guh-RIEF! First of all, bobc, I'm giving you a totally non-comic-related exalt for having taken on such a difficult and harrowing task back then. Wow--- don't think I'd have the wherewithall (or even the presence of mind) to handle it at all-! An exalt for bobc from me, too. FWIW I am in awe of people like bob, my sister, HB's mom--and other selfless people of their ilk--who have the strength, compassion and conviction to reach out to the Dougs, Jesses, and Justins of this world.
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Post by sharkar on Aug 30, 2010 12:15:31 GMT -5
This could be its one drawback, perhaps. The cast is kind of too large--- the Academy kids themselves, and then the Established Avengers Team that's teaching them. There's a danger of disappointing a lot of readers by not focusing enough on their respective favorites (the way Shar would like to see more Pietro, f'rinstance). Well, I guess back-burnering is a necessary evil for a team book (or any book that has a large cast). This was always the "problem" with the Legion comics I read so you'd think I'd be used to it by now! ;D But as bobc pointed out, the focus of this particular comic is the kids and not the old-timers (hey, it's not called "Avengers Academy" for nothing--something I should try to keep in mind!). Anyway, given bob's unequivocally positive endorsement of #3, I may just pick it up after all (even if Pietro's role is relatively small in #3).
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Post by sharkar on Aug 30, 2010 12:32:46 GMT -5
Who is this Gage guy? He is AMAZING. Is he new? His ability to write moody, immature kid dialogue is just amazing to me... ...I think Gage is my favorite writer now! He's been writing some Marvel books for the past few years, bob--recently he scripted some of the later issues of Mighty Avengers (plotted by Slott). Besides MA, my previous exposure to his work was the 5 issue limited series Civil War: House of M. I read this because it included three of my favorite characters, Wanda, Polaris, and -- yes, Pietro. This series focused on the House of M reality created by Wanda, with Magneto as the main character. Gage wrote Mags about as heroic and sympathetic figure as you could imagine. Wanda came across as angelic in demeanor but ultimately calculating (as she should have been, since she was the one pulling the strings). It was an interesting concept but IMO some of the CW:HoM story was muddled and so, less than satisfying. However Gage ably conveyed character through dialogue and I think he demonstrated this facility in MA too.
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Post by bobc on Aug 30, 2010 13:40:42 GMT -5
Hey guys--honestly Sharky and HB--I loved that job. We had several boys who totally got their lives together and that made it all worthwhile.
Thanks for the Gage background. I just re-read these first three AA books this weekend, and yeah, they were/are every bit as good as I said.
This book, if it is not lost in a sea of mediocre Avengers titles, and gets some promo, will be The Next Big Thang.
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