I was just wondering if anyone around here plays Heroscape? The one-and-only official Marvel set included two of the most Iconic Avengers [Captain America and Iron Man], plus one-time member the Incredible Hulk. A friend and I have 'filled in the blanks' of the classic Avengers line-up from issue 4 [Thor, Giant Man and Wasp] using HeroClix figures. If anyone plays and / or is interested, I can post the Army Cards here.
Anyway, thanks for listening, great website and board you guys have here!
Post by humanbelly on May 14, 2009 20:33:37 GMT -5
Man, that's quite a coincidence, Garada-
My son (er, "Son of Belly", would be the appropriate name, I suppose. Or perhaps "Bellyspawn". . . ) thoroughly enjoys Heroscape. We both do, in fact. He says, "Yeah, you bet! I'd love it if he could post those cards! Do you know how hard it is to create those things??" Enthusiastic thumbs-up.
We both have a great time playing, and have the Marvel Set--- although we long ago incorporated it into our overall set. SADLY we had to ban the use of the Hulk, Abomination, Thanos & the Surfer, 'cause they're too hopelessly powerful when used alongside normal characters (their point values just aren't weighted enough). On a whim, we played a game with me as the Hulk, and my son as EVERY SINGLE OTHER MARRO (squads & heroes). The Hulk won.
Anyhoo, glad to have you aboard (makes me feel ever-so-slightly less new. . . !)
Last Edit: May 14, 2009 20:34:40 GMT -5 by humanbelly
we have made the following three Classic Avengers, which mimics the line-up from Avengers #4:
Any feedback is much appreciated. The cards aren't necessarily considered 'finished' yet, so any comments on thematic elements, typos, etc, are great.
We also made Doctor Strange and Namor to go with the official Hulk and Silver Surfer, thereby creating the original Defenders. They are fun to battle against this 5-man Avengers line-up. If you are interested, I will post the Defenders too!
Wow, Garada, these are extremely good! Thy totally make me want to play these characters. Yep, if you've got the inclination, I would love to see the Defenders cards, as well.
Thoughts on your new custom ones (can't help myself. . . my son has created about 20 or so custom characters himself, and we of course debate their abilities, cost, usefulness to death before he commits to printing them up!):
THOR- The Mjolnr attack is really two different special attacks, right? The first is a ground-slam, and the second is a hammer-throw? (That seems right, at least.) Also, is the Son of Odin power a doubling of the actual shields thrown, then? Wasn't quite clear from the wording-- but that's what I assume. MAN this is a powerful character! What is his cost in relation to the Hulk or Abomination cards?
GIANT MAN: I'll tell you, I think this is a very clever and cool card-- and a bargain at 200 points. In fact, he and the Wasp together for 340 is a no-brainer. Y'know, he may actually be too unbeatable. If you use the Avengers Assemble ability to keep both Cap & Wasp next to him-- coupled with his Pym Particle defense-- it would be nearly impossible to take him out. I would maybe suggest a weakness that keeps in the historical context of Hank's character. MANY times the Wasp has been grievously injured in battle, and Hank has immediately dropped out of the fight to rush her off to desperately save her life. Usually having a nervous breakdown in the process. What would you think of incorporating something like that into his make-up? (NOT telling you your business, mind you! Just an offhand thought. . .) Cyprien Essenwein has a similar relationship w/ Sonja Essenwein, I believe.
WASP: Yep, like her a lot for what she adds to Hank, AND for the high-ish defense. Does she possibly rate a short ranged attack? (Maybe 2 or 3?) That would certainly make her more useful for dropping into a small squad of Marros or those little Chinese foot-soldier guys or similar cannon-fodder.
But again-- love these as they already are-- would it be out of line to ask if my boy and I could play them? Don't want to step on your intellectual property! (Well, and we'll have to cobble the figures together. . .)
THOR - Yes, Mjolnr is basically a 2-attacks-in-1 power... if he's engaged / adjacent to an opponent, he MUST use the 1 range Attack [which luckily affects ALL adjacent figures] and if he is not engaged, he may 'throw' Mjolnr at an opponent up to 5 spaces away. The 1 range part of it can be looked at as a ground slam, or Thor swinging Mjolnr in a big circle, or bringing down the lightning... whatever works best in your mind when you play! We left it a bit vague just for that reason actually. The Son Of Odin power - Yes, every Shield rolled counts as an extra shield... so rolling his 5 defense dice, I roll 2 shields, which counts as 4 defense. As far as Thor's cost, at 390 he is more expensive than Incredible Hulk [at 370]. He doesn't hit as hard an an enraged Hulk [who can roll 11 attack dice if he has 5 wounds on his Army Card], but his flying and ranged attack add to his value in Heroscape terms. His points may still come down, as these are considered 'works-in-progress'.
Giant Man - He's a bruiser. My collaborator chose to stick the Avengers Assemble power on his card because of the physical height of the mini itself; when he's up there, he has a good view of the battlefield, able to help position his comrades better. Plus, it serves as a nice way to keep Wasp [and Cap] close so he can benefit from their bonuses. I LOVE the idea you are suggesting about a disadvantage for him involving Wasp. I will discuss this with my pal and see what we come up with!
Wasp - Ya know, I think originally we had a weak ranged attack, but it didn't feel too thematic, plus we needed room on the card! Instead, we went with the triple attack - meant to represent her buzzing around your head and repeatedly 'stinging' you. Remember that since it's a normal attack, height advantage would still apply, plus with triple attack she can attack different targets with each attack. Add in her stealth flying and she can still dart around and hold her own against squads even without range. My main question is... DOES the Wasp [esp the 'classic', Pym's Arm Candy Wasp we are using as our model] use a ranged weapon, or does she mostly attack at close range?
As far as whether you and your son should play using them... I wish you would.
I am delighted by any feedback I can get on these guys, and playtesting data and opinion on cost and theme are the best. Also, tell me if you spot a typo or error, I want these cards to look as good as they can, because I also don't want to have to print them out again!
As far as the miniatures needed, they can all be picked up pretty cheap. All are from Marvel HeroClix. None should cost more than $3, and some [like Wasp] can be found for $1 or less. There are also various versions of Thor, so if you prefer a more 'Classic' Thor, or an Ultimate Giant Man, they're out there. But generally, we tend to pick the version that has the finest sculpt at the most reasonable price.
Post by humanbelly on May 16, 2009 15:02:11 GMT -5
Whew! I'm generally liking what I'm seeing a lot (maybe a couple of questions/thoughts here and there, which I'll have to come back to you with later)-- but one more practical question for the here-and-now: Where do you pick up the HeroClix figures? Esp. the variety, etc? They seem a lot pricier at the local shops. . . when I even see them at all. Ebay? Craig's List?
Post by badgermaniac on May 16, 2009 15:16:43 GMT -5
Most of the characters have at least one version that is very cheap via the open market. While one of the high powered Thor heroclix figs might run you $10 or more, there are others that you can pick up for a buck or two.
Many of them are commons that can be had for under $0.50 each.
I have gotten all of mine via ebay, typically through a couple of the dealer types where I can pick up say, 20 or 30 figures at a time with much less shipping than you would get from purchasing through individual buyers.
Search around and find a dealer that offers a great shipping deal, and then buy in bulk.
Sometimes inviduals will also offer an Avengers themed lot, with 7 or 8 figures at a great price.
Post by humanbelly on May 16, 2009 20:21:30 GMT -5
Ha! That's great! The title is just excruciatingly perfect. . . and the effect is much better than what my son & I were floating around (Have him go back to the start area, or have reduced mov't, or something mundane like that). And having him stuck at giant-size has two very solid historical echos: 1965 or so, Hank was trapped at a 10' size (sometimes 12', depending on how shaky the editorial memory was that month) for quite some time. And then, years later, Jan was critically injured in issue #137 (fighting the Toad, who was masquerading as the Stranger). Hank went completely to pieces, but got her to the hospital-- where he collapsed and began growing uncontrollably while unconcious. Ultimately, the Vision fixed him up. Man, it all ties in!
Hey, you guys were on the money about ebay being a solid resource.. . . as well as some online stores. Thanks for guidance. We've already bid on a nice set of some secondary Avengers figures, and will easily be able to get more. Liking the idea of creating an Avengers team, a Defenders one, and I'd LOVE to put together the old, brief Champions team. All very doable--!
Glad you like the added power, and it's nice to know it has such a resonance with the character's history.
Who was in the Champions? I'm always up for trying to re-create famous AND obscure Marvel teams. We are working on the Fantastic Four right now. badgermaniac, the other heroscaper who posted all of his cool Avengers also assembled an Invaders team.
Fun stuff, please keep the comments and feedback coming.
What is your favorite Avenger? Which Avengers do you think would be the most fun to play in Heroscape?
Yep, that's the Champions! And there was also at least one other late-joining member--- a young blonde woman. . . Darkstar? Darklight?. . . of of those Darkforce-manipulating types. I think her specific character may be dead now, and the name has been passed on to someone else.
So, Son of HB & I were looking over the additional cards you posted (Whew!), and our own differences in taste began to emerge again. However, we both particularly like many of those lower/mid level characters, which always seem to be the toughest to create. Quicksilver, Tigra and Black Knight are dead-on (that Lover Boy trait made me laugh out loud! It's a perfect blend of character and playability!). SoHB prefers Badge's Namor, I'm more partial to Garada's. SoHB does tend to gravitate towards more intricate, complex, involved powers and abilitities, whereas I find them to hard to keep track of (or follow effectively during gameplay), and prefer a more direct style. Both cards' vital use of water is very ingenious, though-- well done. For us, the kind of heavy reliance on the loss-of-order-marker penalties doesn't play well. Our particular style of play (w/ large squads) uses a double-round of order markers, and if one very active character loses two or three in one round, it can pretty much decide the game right there, just because of the timing, and end a game prematurely. Perhaps a shackling of special powers or abilities for a round? Or some other penalty? (Just a thought. . . . ).
Other random feedbacks:
Black Knight: Not sure how the Atomic Steed ability initiates. Is he always on it, then? If he's knocked off, how does he get back on? Or am I missing something? How do you keep track of this?
Warbird: If her energy blast knock-back hits someone against a wall, should that be, like, a +1 to whatever hits they take? (I know, I know-- this is one of those complicated extra details that I profess to not like. . . ). SoHB liked the fact that she could therefore knock someone off a cliff.
Wonder Man: Ohhhhh, golly, I really wouldn't classify Simon as Arrogant. Poor guy. If anything (especially since this is his "scared to die" period), I would think of him as. . . Reluctant, maybe? Hesitant? Self-Doubting? Heh-- "In Need of Therapy"? And while we both like the idea of a Death Phobia trait-- it's that darn loss of order marker penalty. With Simon I would really make a case for halving his attack and defense when rolling an 18-20 (and that he'd roll the black die when attacked, as well). Again, this is just an opinion-- SoHB & I go back & forth on this kind of stuff all the time.
Ultron & Adaptoid-- while they're both very, very well thought out, I don't think I could ever keep track of how I was using them. What's the word-- cumbersome? Could that be the problem I'm having? They're both certainly powerful enough to justify their cost-- and you've, heh, "adapted" the Adaptoid's abilities very cleverly into the gameplay. Again, SoHB is more inclined to these complicated characters, so they may be just fine.
Jocasta: Well, SoHB pointed out, "Why would I spend 200 points on someone who would just bring someone else back to life?" Basically, a 200 point insurance policy. I mean, it does capture her nature, but I'm not sure how effective it makes her.
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Team cards! It immediately got us both thinking about different teams and other team iterations that could be used (Original Avengers, West Coast, Gyrich's Team, etc.). Keep this idea!
Hey, my favorite Avenger has always been Hawkeye/Clint Barton. I even enjoyed him during his time as Goliath. Ronin, maybe not so much. I made sure that the batch of figures I bid on included him.
Post by badgermaniac on May 17, 2009 10:19:41 GMT -5
All of these figures are drafts. Some have been playtested. Some have not, so comments are very welcome.
1. Black Knight: Yes, he is always on his steed unless knocked off. I agree that the keeping track could be clunky. Perhaps putting a die or something on his card for the round he is off. He immediately remounts at the beginning of the next round.
2. Warbird. Some Marvelscape play with knockback rules where damage is inflicted when knocked back against a house or whatever. I have played them and am not a fan...too much extra work. I would view knockback on Warbird's ability as being a simple move back. You cannot be knocked off a map and you will take no extra damage regardless of what you hit. You CAN be blown off a building or a cliff however and take resulting falling damage.
3. Wonder Man. I like your points. I just got done reading the West Coast run, and he is most certainly arrogant there. The problem with making customs with some of these characters is that they change so much throughout their history. The Death Phobia is meant as a freeze up...he may no longer attack or move that turn. Due to his ionic structure, he would still defend normally.
4. SA and Ultron. You are correct that the issue of being true to the character adds a cumbersomeness that some people do not like. I have playtested both and been ok with them, but I do think it is a personal preference. My main issue has always been that being an Avengers fan, there is nobody I can really fight with them. If you take 5 or 6 to them, you are going to have about 1000 points of hero. That is why I have tried to take some villains and REALLY jack them up, typically with abilities. I have also added some limiting factors which get at the morality of the heroes and serve as disadvantages in the game (ie. no killing, which can limit damage). The abilities in this case are an attempt to "soup" up the villains. I don't know another way to do it other than give them like 15 life and 10 attack dice or something...which I may wind up doing.
5. Jocasta. Well, I do think she has some decent base values, and her recon ability could make her worthwhile in tandom with other tactical cards. I view her as used in tandem with someone like Thor or some other high priced figure. While the other team tries hard to take out the big gun, and perhaps finally succeeds, you then can sacrifice Jocasta instead, which could really screw up that type of strategy. To be honest, I haven't playtested her yet, so you might be right. Maybe if I made her lower costed, it would help? The problem with her is that as you actually look at her abilities in the real Marvel world, she is pretty darn powerful, even though she wasn't used all that much by the writers during her run.
Thanks for the feedback. I will give your comments some thought.
The great thing about customs is that you can fit them into your own style of gameplay. I agree that each card isn't for everyone. Do you like simplicity of gameplay, such as the core HS game? Or, do you like that greater thematic feel? It is a constant tradeoff.
Post by humanbelly on May 17, 2009 15:05:13 GMT -5
Yep. . . is it an extremely complicated variation of chess, or is it an immersive role-playing game? The answer, of course, is that it's either and it's both. Hence, the appeal. In fact, I'm really surprised it hasn't become a more wide-spread gaming phenomenon. Of course, their marketing and distribution strategies have been a HUGE bust. But I digress. . .
Yeah, I completely recognize your dilemma with the hyper-powerful villains. Balance would clearly become the issue. I mean, it usually takes ALL of the Avengers to beat ONE Ultron-- and that's usually by a whisker (or maybe an antennae). In his case--- I would indeed consider opting for jacking his lives up even farther if it facilitated making his game-play simpler. BUT I'm not sure my boy agrees with me on that. Adaptoid would be worth trying as-is to me. Mostly, I'd fret about how to keep track of various absorbed abilities and how long I've had them. I'd completely forgotten about Simon's boost of self-esteem during his WCA years. I think dating Tigra could do that for anyone. . . . But there may be also something to be said for playing with a reluctant, or even fearful, character. Very unique. I think you're sort of bringing me around on Jocasta. Man, maybe if she was even 180 points, instead of 200. Her base values are quite solid. . . but she's life-shy, at 4. She was a heartbreaking character in the series, because she was DESPERATELY lonely & isolated, and was completely neglected by EVERYONE even as she was reaching out to them. And yet was incredibly empathetic and sensitive to the needs of others. You know. . . I wonder if she would be a different kind of playing character altogether? Something more like Raelin (from the base HS game)-- where proximity to her boosts other folks' base levels? And maybe (to account for her self-sacrificing nature) that boost to others comes at some reduction of her own base levels when she's near them? This is TOTALLY coming off the top of my head as I write it.
Say, are you guys by any chance working up some sort of squad cards? I think that's kinda the missing element in the superhero-based scenario. And SoHB is a big believer in strength-in-numbers, so I know it would appeal to him. Common squads of AIM agents, Hydra, Moloids, Morlocks, Maggia Goons, Taskmaster grads, Lava men, Ninjas, SHIELD agents, US army, SWAT teams, Kree, Skrulls, Shiar--- lordy, it could go on forever. Unique squads of, maybe, Super Soldiers, LMD's, Manbots, "lesser" groups of heroes & villains, and so forth. Or am I just loading 'way too much on your plate, here?
It's dicey to get me started, 'cause I just go on and on. . ..
Hey Belly, thanks for your continued interest and feedback.
As far as my view on 'super powerful' villains, as a comic fan I see the appeal, but when it comes down to it practically working in Scape, problems seem to arise. It's a lot easier in the comics to just write a battle wherein the Avengers only win the day by an antenna, but in a game like scape, you end up with a villain who can kill heroes with ease and can barely be scratched. I mean, even the Hulk would have a hard time surviving against a villain with 15 attack, and the same villain with 15 def and 20 life would just be impossible to kill.
Unfortunately in Scape, there is no real way to implement 'drama' and storytelling, beyond just the randomness of the dice and the great moments it seems to create [like when thanks to some lucky rolling, your last squad of 4th mass finally takes down the Hulk]. My point is just that you can't write the outcome of Scape battles the way you can in the comics, and the best way to make a single Ultron a threat for the Avengers [while still making him beatable in gameplay terms] is to back him up with other units that compliment him well. I'm not saying there's not a way to make it happen, but I can't really think how.
On the subject of Common Squads, who would be the most fitting in an Avengers scenario?
I have made a number of Common Squads myself, but they are so far all from the DC Universe. I can post them here if you have an interest, but there are some good Marvel Common Squads that other custom creators have made, such as Hydra Agents and Hand Ninja. I do plan on trying to make some of these myself someday, especailly since I already own enough minis to have 2-3 squads of practically ALL of those Marvel Squads you mentioned!
Please be aware that I did not create any of these, they were made by another customizer pal of mine named GreyOwl, and they along with almost every other Super Custom you could hope for can be found on the 'A-Z of Custom Comic Creations' [www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=15723]from a Message Board that I [and badger] frequent, heroscapers.com.
From the same creator, here are some awesome Hydra guys:
Post by badgermaniac on May 17, 2009 15:44:42 GMT -5
Ulitmately, you can't really put an Ultron against Thor, Wonder Man, Iron Man, Cap, Beast, Vision, etc. as occurred around Avengers 160, but I think you can get a bit closer.
What I probably will do is leave the base values the same, but add a couple more life points...maybe 7 or 8.
From there, I hvae some of my scenario cards...hero morality, Gyrich, surprise attack, and so forth that hopefully can even the battle out some.
I have given Ultron support in the past with things like Zettian Guards, but the Avengers typically make short work of them.
In the aforementioned Ultron run, he also used the Grim Reaper as well as Pym as "pawns", so they can be teamed with him as well.
As far as common squad, I haven't made any but I know I have seen SHIELD agents, Kree, and Hydra on the custom board. I have their cards printed, but have not yet used them. I think I would like to use my Super-Adaptoid with a squad of AIM agents, as I think that might work.
Speaking of SA, I think I will probably just allow the SA to use an adapted ability for one turn, rather than one+ one. The problem is that that really is the essence of the character, so you would like for him to be able to use Cap's shield or Thor's hammer. When I playtested him, he basically ran after the powerful figures (Thor, Vision, etc.) while those guys basically just ran away as they didn't want to allow SA to steal those powerful abilities to use against weaker characters like Panther or Wasp.
I think what you described is the best way to go, Badger. Buffing the villains a bit with more life, rather than pumping their Atk and Def to 'game-breaking' levels, and surrounding them with a few mid-level underlings [esp those with a 'support' power] would seem to work best.
That SA scenario you described is hilarious, and is one of the kind of things that makes me realize just how hard it is to make HS battles feel as thematically accurate as comic book battles. Then again, I can't imagine Revolutionary War soldiers ever causing a single wound to the Hulk, so sometimes we just have to accept Heroscape at face value.
Post by badgermaniac on May 17, 2009 16:37:28 GMT -5
For me, it is about balance. I don't need to see every ability that a character possesses in the comic book world, but I do want the essence or flavor of the character to remain the same. With that in mind, I don't need to be anal about getting EVERYTHING that Thor or Ultron or Iron Man can do, but I don't mind giving them 2 or 3 abilities, even if it makes them a little bit clunky in places. That is just my preference.
I have modified Jocasta and Ultron, but I have posted them on HS.com rather than here, so humanbelly, you can head there is you want to see what I did with some of your comments (again, which I appreciate).
One more thing for my Scape-playin Avenger Fans...
The Thor card in the first batch of Avengers cards I posted has been replaced with a new, 'Classic' sculpt version, which fits in better with the theme of this board and my impression in the general taste for classic Avengers action.
The original version [which is a beautiful sculpt, and actually looks more 'Heroscapey'] can still be found here:
Now all I need is a Classic-style Wasp so that they would really look exactly like they do on the cover of #4, but that mini's a little pricey for my taste [in the $5-7 range last I checked], and the one I own [which is used on the card] is quite nice looking and only a dollar.
You guys are really bringing back some memories! I haven't played Heroscape but me and a couple of friends were deeply into Hero Clix when they first came out, and played regularly for about 2 years (after that, we started playing City of Heroes on-line and that became an obsession). Heroscape looks pretty cool, and your cards are very nicely done.
Thanks for the kind words, Tana. I know you don't play Heroscape, but if you see anything that looks wrong on any of my cards [including typos and even thematic elements] please let me know. I am striving to make them as polished, professional and balanced as possible, for maximum Avengery goodness.
Do you still have any of your old HeroClix figures? If so, I assume they're mostly all Avengers!
If you like games of this sort [and IMHO, Heroscape is leagues better than HeroClix], I highly recommend picking up the Heroscape Marvel set and one of the two Master Sets; most folks prefer the first set, 'Rise of the Valkyrie', due to its larger number of figures and wider variety of terrain, but the second set, 'Swarm of the Marro' is also pretty cool with Swamp Terrain and a giant alien Hive for the Marro invaders. Either way, the whole thing will only set you back $60-70 at most, plus around a buck each for any HeroClix you may need to Assemble your own Avengers team.
Otherwise, I hope you have fun comparing the stats on all of these guys.
Post by humanbelly on May 18, 2009 15:51:10 GMT -5
Heya Tana-- thanks for peeking in on us. I'll tell you, this game looks very intimidating from the outside, but the writer/creators do a good job of using tutorial play to get folks up & running in no time. (My then-9-year-old daughter, in fact, tried out the Beginner system with me on a whim. . . . and proceeded to kick my behind around the board. . . which bored her, so now she doesn't really care to play anymore. Sheesh.) To describe it objectively. . . it's most analogous to chess, but on a much larger board, and you get to choose your own pieces, and the pieces are all very idiosyncratic. There's a very fun overlay of being "inside" a story, like with most role-playing games. And the gameplay is ultimately decided by head-to-head dice-rolls which adds considerable tension, and a wild element of unpredictability. I also have a sense that most serious followers quickly adapt the game to suit their personal tastes (probably drives the creators crazy. . . ).
Hey Badge-- was it the Heroscape.com website that had your cards posted? I haven't been there often, and don't seem to be able to navigate to anything like that. . . . thks much-
My 7 year old girl LOVES Heroscape, and we play the Master Rules. I love that the game focuses so strongly on 'theme' over a complicated rule set [like Warhammer 40k]. Don't think of Heroscape as 'simple'... I think 'elegant' is the best way to describe it.
And as far as badger's customs, they should all be on Heroscapers.com. Just search by poster [he goes by badgermaniac there too], and click 'posts started by'. You should be able to find all of his stuff that way.
This take on Black Knight is way more simple and 'action-oriented' that the beautifully thematic version badger made .
Hey, I like to get the most out of my miniatures, so I will be printing out both versions to make a 'flip' card for him... depending on what mood I'm in [and how many points I want to spend on him, mine's 100 points more].
Belly, are there any other Avengers you'd like to see? You said you loved Hawkeye the most; have you and your son developed any stats or powers for him? If you have any ideas, I'd be glad to take a crack at him! Which mini of Hawkeye did you get in that auction?
Man, I really love this extremely Avenger-centric Heroscape discussion!
Heh- nope, haven't had a chance to work out any Avengers figures/scenarios yet. SoHB just set up a new board for our normal play, and it'll probably be a few days before we can break it in. (The time-consumption factor of the game is a very real consideration in our busy lives. . . !).
I tell ya, I'm happy w/ the cards I've seen so far-- I believe you guys are covering most of my favorites, and have given us ideas on directions to maybe take with our own. Boy, it's squad cards that would definitely add that missing element I think. As I listed awhile back, "bad guy" squads are pretty readily recommend themselves. "Good guys" are tougher to pin down. But it would be great to see some Super Soldiers, maybe? SHIELD agents. . . and wasn't there a superhero-oriented SWAT team in Thor 'way, 'way back? Ohhhhh, that would be great. . . !