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Post by humanbelly on May 23, 2010 10:49:18 GMT -5
Yep, there I was at one of our smaller LCS's (picking up the end of that Archie Proposes series for my daughter), and I thought, "okay, it won't kill me to try just the first issue".
And. . . I have to say that it benefitted from my initial low expectations. It is not bad. It works as a starting point, w/ almost no SIEGE-related info needed to follow what's going on.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS-- CAREFUL!!
The biggest point in its favor is that it seems like BMB may have grudgingly been listening to some of the complaints and criticisms of us much-maligned "old-timers" after all. Most of his overly-clever dialogue tricks have been left at home-- the style is fairly straightforward and at times amusing without being cutesy (Well, Kang makes one gratuitously wry comment that is completely out of character-- but one can't expect miracles). Bendis is still terribly weak at writing dialogue where everyone has a different voice, though. This is particularly noticable with Thor, whose manner of speech is now so contemporary that he could be anyone else if you weren't looking at the pictures. But BMB isn't the first writer to have this problem. The plot itself has the beginnings of being a vintage big ol' Avengers chase-'em-down & beat-'em-up w/ myriad twists and turns along the way. We've got Kang, there's an Ultron element, there's--- a surprise (but very welcome!) mastermind revealed in the last panel.
The art: as I've said before, JR Jr. just doesn't do it for me much anymore, although this isn't really bad work. He's dynamic, but as always, his faces are awful (and identical) and his mastery of anatomy needs to re-apply for a learner's permit (there's a panel where Thor's arm seems to have lost its elbow, and just curves conveniently like Plastic Man's). Klaus Janson's inking has just gotten rougher & rougher over the years, too. Man, he used to be the KING of fine detail. Oddly enough, it's colorist Dean White who I think deserves a lot of credit for maintaining the art's overall visual appeal. There's a lot of depth and shading that would be missing w/out his efforts here. The art's okay-- and wouldn't at all keep me from getting this book.
Interviews W/ the Avengers text piece at the end: Very, very weak. If Bendis wrote this, then it completely reveals his limitations, I believe. Every character sounds like every other character. I believe he may have done a bit of homework/research to tackle this-- but I don't think he assimilated what he read. Tony Stark, in particular, shows such an astounding lack of depth or self-awareness (mentioning repeatedly how "hot" Jan Van Dyne is) that it proves insulting (man, there's that word again) to the longtime reader.
BUT-- I would still give the book a reasonable grade of B-, maybe a B, even. Benefit of the doubt, as it were.
HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on May 24, 2010 15:51:29 GMT -5
Yeah, Bendis is writing the "new Oral history of the Avengers" and it wasn't exactly liked at all. I thought this wasn't terrible, it seems to be able to hold my interest to see what will come next.
I did go to the whole "Avengers Day" shindig. My comic dealer was giving free of Avengers #1 to people who had pull boxes with them. Then for the price of the book we could have an artist on hand do a cover for the blank cover variant. One of the artists who has done some of the chase sketch cards for the recent Marvel Masterpiece series' did a full cover sketch of Hawkeye. It was actually pretty cool. If I can get it over to a scanner I'll post it on here.
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Post by freedomfighter on May 25, 2010 17:11:17 GMT -5
Sigh. I just don't even get the fundamental storytelling that bendis uses. Here's my example of what I just don't get. Kang shows up with a doomsday weapon. The Avengers agree to his demands and essentially he uses that weapon as a bargaining chip. Ok, so if he's got this weapon and he's not afraid to use it as a bargaining chip, why not use it in his conquest? "Give me what I want, or else..." What Busiek went to great pains to illustrate was that Kang is a CONQUEROR. He has a thousand years of tech at his disposal, but for the most part it puts him at an even keel with many of the fantastic powers the super heroes have. He could easily bring a billion soldiers and win a campaign with overwhelming force, but to him it's a battle, a show of his will and his cunning and his might to win on a fairly competitive playing field. But for bendis, Kang is merely a tool in his box, a piece he uses to get his story rolling and not a character to be truly understood and utilized in a fashion that makes any sense. He did this with Ultron too; it's almost as if bendis has no real love for developing his super villains and would just simply use them as a plot device to get to his next bit of repartee. Those who think I'm picking on bendis I would simply ask which villain does anyone think he has truly portrayed as an Avengers foe? One who fits as an integral storyline you would say ranks among the best? Be forewarned, any answers that start with "the Hood" will be met with laughter so long and loud it may deafen and drive insane two generations...
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Post by Shiryu on May 26, 2010 8:04:37 GMT -5
I found this issue to be so so, miles better than NA but still a way to go to be truly good. Thor's speech pattern is more or less a consequence of Straczinsky's run on Thor, although Bendis had a better grasp of him in Siege. The group put together by Steve is more than a bit odd, but having Clint as Hawkeye again was enough to make me overlook that for a time. But I didn't like that scene with Wonder Man, he sounded like his WCA self rather than the nice guy he was in Busiek's Avengers.
Kang's presence was a mere plot device, he could have been anyone else really and it wouldn't have mattered. In fact, I'd rather it were Zarrko, who doesn't have the same magnitude of Kang and can be "wasted" without a second thought. But the Maestro's presence in the final panel was a good plot imo.
I'd rate it somewhere between C+ and B- I think.
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Post by scottharris on May 26, 2010 11:23:49 GMT -5
SPOILERRRRS
I'm not actually sure that's Maestro at the end. It might be, mind you, but one thing I'm not sure any of you realized -- and I totally had no clue whatsoever about when I read this issue -- is that those kids at the beginning and the Ultron conquered future and whatever are all from a straight-to-DVD cartoon called Next Avengers (which is the title of this issue, btw). I appreciate that for once Bendis actually included exposition to explain to everyone the story, which he usually does not do when he includes some obscure reference or characters, but still. From what I've heard, in that cartoon the "Next Avengers" team of Avengers children end up beating Ultron by enlisting the help of an old Hulk.
So while I have heard that this story is going to somehow fuse the Maestro storyline with the Next Avengers DVD storyline, I wouldn't be too excited about the Hulk's appearance at the end of the issue, because it may not be Maestro at all but rather an unexplained reference to an obscure story that never even appeared in a comic book at all.
Again, the comic makes sense without knowing about the DVD so I can't complain too much, but it makes me very wary about whether or not I'm going to be able to follow the plot in upcoming issues.
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on May 26, 2010 13:01:50 GMT -5
Yes, the kids are all from the Next Avengers DVD. You've got the son of Hank and Janet (how is he still there, then?), son of Black Panther, son of Hawkeye, son of Cap & Black Widow, and then the Daughter of Thor. When I saw them I was like "whoa... weird!" but at the same time, a neat little thing. And yes, in the movie they enlist the help of both the Hulk and Iron Man (who was the only Avenger to not be killed by Ultron in the movie, and has been looking after them.)
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Post by Shiryu on May 26, 2010 13:27:45 GMT -5
That's where they were coming from!! I knew I'd seen them somewhere, but couldn't focus on where it was. I liked the movie, it will be interesting to see how and if it's put in continuity.
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Post by freedomfighter on May 28, 2010 10:11:09 GMT -5
That's where they were coming from!! I knew I'd seen them somewhere, but couldn't focus on where it was. I liked the movie, it will be interesting to see how and if it's put in continuity. Eh, it's a possible alternate timeline that may or may not take place. Marvel always plays fast and loose with those. Something funny tho'. My wife knows I'm a huge Avengers fan and we were in the LCS and she wondering why I wasn't buying any of the books. I showed her the Bendis book and she read through the first few pages and asked me so simply "if Kang has this weapon that everybody's afraid of, why doesn't he just use it against those kids?" I had no answer for that... I don't think Bendis does either.
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Post by humanbelly on May 28, 2010 13:50:57 GMT -5
That's where they were coming from!! I knew I'd seen them somewhere, but couldn't focus on where it was. I liked the movie, it will be interesting to see how and if it's put in continuity. Eh, it's a possible alternate timeline that may or may not take place. Marvel always plays fast and loose with those. Which reminds me. . . isn't there an alternate timeline/universe where Steve has retired as Cap, and has become the director of SHIELD? Possibly a What If-? M2 Universe? I'm absolutely certain I've seen that explored as a "possible future" scenario at some point a few years ago-- which helps justify its occurrence now just a little, teeny bit. Not completely, mind you. . . HB
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Post by goldenfist on Jun 1, 2010 22:53:36 GMT -5
Look's like Mockingbird was hoping she would not end up with the West Coast Avengers.
Does anyone remember the issue where she had an argument with Hawkeye and left the team with Tigra and Moon Knight and then the West Coast Avengers had to fight against Mantis.
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jun 2, 2010 13:17:16 GMT -5
Yeah, the piece where Mockingbird is saying "Please don't say West Coast" had me smile. And I do remember the bit you mentioned, as it became the fracturing of the team for some time there. I didn't mind so much the two teams for a little while, it just felt like not enough time was given to them.
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Post by sharkar on Jun 3, 2010 20:57:17 GMT -5
Which reminds me. . . isn't there an alternate timeline/universe where Steve has retired as Cap, and has become the director of SHIELD? Possibly a What If-? M2 Universe? I'm absolutely certain I've seen that explored as a "possible future" scenario at some point a few years ago-- which helps justify its occurrence now just a little, teeny bit. Not completely, mind you. . . Not sure if this is the story you're referring to, HB (or perhaps there's more than one with the scenario you're describing), but a few weeks ago I re-read What If? Classic volume 1, which contains a story called ""What If Captain America and Bucky Had Both Survived World War II? " (from v. 1 #5, 1977). The following may be SPOILERS: not only do the two heroes survive WW II, but Nick Fury dies in the 1960s (before SHIELD comes into existence); the super soldier serum will retard Steve's aging for only a few more years so Steve retires from active Cap duty and becomes the director of the newly-formed SHIELD; Bucky Barnes--known as Buck--takes over as Cap; Sharon Carter loves "Cap"/Buck; Rick becomes the new Bucky; "Cap" Buck Barnes is killed; and in the end it's implied that Rick will take over as Cap. It's as convoluted and tear-jerking as a What If? story should be--God, I love this series! (Both the old What Ifs? volumes and today's WIs.) EDIT: added cover AND the following: HB, I'm sure you already know this volume includes a Hulk story "What If The Hulk Had Always Had Bruce Banner's Brain?", illustrated by our friend Mr. Trimpe-- right?? ;D
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 4, 2010 8:32:35 GMT -5
I do believe that's the one indeed, Shar. From the initial "What If-?" run, that's right. EXTREMELY complicated story that, I believe, had some connection to the Avengers story in the preceding issue? I must confess that I had a heck of a time following it when I first read it. . . Ah, good stuff!
HB
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Post by sharkar on Jun 8, 2010 20:17:34 GMT -5
I do believe that's the one indeed, Shar. From the initial "What If-?" run, that's right. EXTREMELY complicated story that, I believe, had some connection to the Avengers story in the preceding issue? I'm not sure, HB. As far as I can tell, the Cap story in #5 is not related to the preceding What If? issue. In What If? issue (#4), there's an Invaders story, with a Cap who was neither Steve Rogers nor the 1953 Cap that Engelhart wrote about in CA #153-156--I guess this What If? Cap here could be called the Cap in the gap (sorry! ;D). And in What If? #4 there's a column by Roy Thomas in which he states this Invaders story was in fact supposed to be part of the regular Marvel continuity (unlike most What Ifs?). Is this the WI? story you're thinking of?
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 9, 2010 5:20:08 GMT -5
I do believe that's the one indeed, Shar. From the initial "What If-?" run, that's right. EXTREMELY complicated story that, I believe, had some connection to the Avengers story in the preceding issue? I'm not sure, HB. As far as I can tell, the Cap story in #5 is not related to the preceding What If? issue. In What If? issue (#4), there's an Invaders story, with a Cap who was neither Steve Rogers nor the 1953 Cap that Engelhart wrote about in CA #153-156--I guess this What If? Cap here could be called the Cap in the gap (sorry! ;D). And in What If? #4 there's a column by Roy Thomas in which he states this Invaders story was in fact supposed to be part of the regular Marvel continuity (unlike most What Ifs?). Is this the WI? story you're thinking of? Yesyesyesyes, that's right, Shar-- I think that's what I was trying to remember. Y'know, I own all of these darn comics, but trying to shift all of those long-boxes around on their storage shelves to track down the right one (even WITH a cataloged system, mind you!) inevitably proves to be too daunting a task. Plus I'm a trifle lazy. So I do tend to take the, er, "relaxed man's" way out, and try to mooch these nuggets of arcana off of you kind folks here. Sort of like an itinerant brother-in-law that even a healthy spray of RoundUp won't wipe out. . . HB
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nova36
Force Works-er
Posts: 19
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Post by nova36 on Jun 19, 2010 8:02:35 GMT -5
Well as i read this issue i felt it was the weakest of all the Avengers titles.
first what i liked, it was nice to see Steve giving this avengers team their mission statement, a nice little conversation between Steve and tony and the art.
Yeah i know alot of people hate JRJR's artwork but i am not one of them..no one draws a better spidey and i like his Thor.
I also did not mind Maria hill in this issue which is saying alot for me.
what i did not like... well i think there are too many members, and for me the story was weak, taking it from the NEXT AVENGERS DVD..i dunno.
Tho kang did look good and for the most part sounded like well...kang
I'll give it one story arc here is hoping...
;D
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