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Post by humanbelly on May 1, 2010 19:48:31 GMT -5
Yep, here we go. Perfect place for tangential discussions. . .
Man, Sufirjp, you've read just about everything, it seems!
Yeah, as I recall, the storytelling problem you're having w/ WWBN doesn't ever really go away. Sometimes it tries to stick to its horror-book roots (Marvel Spotlight 2-4, I believe it was. And that issue #4 was a particularly good read.). Other times it skews a little super-heroish (particularly at the end of its run, when Iron Man guest stars), with a couple of "arch foes" and what-not. Ultimately, much like Bruce Banner, Jack just barely seems to have any life at all in between bouts w/ the full moon, which is terribly implausible. And his relationship w/ his sister (Lisa?) is kind of uber-creepy at times. . . very early-Wanda/Pietro. Once artist Mike Ploog left (very cool, stylized look-- unlike anyone else at the time), I'm not sure I'd say the book was ever actually "good" again. Ultimately, the artistic chores fall to the very ill-suited team of Don Perlin (who I've never cared much for) and Vince Colletta (who's a genius, no mistake). Somehow, Colletta's detailed inking read as little more than messy over Perlin's horribly stiff & uninspired pencils.
For the life of me, I can't remember who any of the writers were.
Hmm-- just totally making you look forward to this, I imagine, eh?
And like I said, I stubbornly stuck with this title to the end-- insisting it was one of my favorites. Boy, the blindness of youth. . . (I also couldn't believe it when they canceled Skull the Slayer. . . )
HB
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Post by Shiryu on May 2, 2010 6:08:30 GMT -5
I also remember good old Werewolf by Night, although mostly for his guest-star appearance in an early issue of Marvel Team-Up (which, just a few months later, also had John Jameson as the Man Wolf, you can tell werewolves were trendy at the time)
His stories were nice, but I've always preferred Dracula as Marvel horror character, especially with Wolfman (now, isn't that ironic ;D) and Colan as creative team.
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Post by humanbelly on May 2, 2010 13:04:17 GMT -5
I also remember good old Werewolf by Night, although mostly for his guest-star appearance in an early issue of Marvel Team-Up (which, just a few months later, also had John Jameson as the Man Wolf, you can tell werewolves were trendy at the time) His stories were nice, but I've always preferred Dracula as Marvel horror character, especially with Wolfman (now, isn't that ironic ;D) and Colan as creative team. Yes, that particular team-up (MTU #15?) was, like, the very next month after Gwen Stacey was killed, I believe. And Pete's shock and grief were just palpably evident elements. I recall it being a joyless "team-up" because of that, as here were two characters I really liked, but the surrounding circumstances sort of trumped any possibility of it being fun. Y'know, I'm sure Jack must still be out there, yes? As always, he's probably been a key player in some book, and I've been totally ignorant of the fact. . . HB |
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Post by Shiryu on May 2, 2010 13:18:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it's the same WWbN (but I think so), but one has recently starred in Marvel Zombies 4, forming the Midnight Sons with Morbius, Son of Satana and perhaps Man Thing. They have battled a few zombies arrived from the "zombieverse" to spread their plague (not sure if you are familiar with the Marvel Zombie series, but there are pretty good recaps on wiki).
At the end, WWbN has been infected by the zombie virus, and Morbius is trying to cure him. This has been referenced in a very recent issue of Amazing SM a month or so ago.
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Post by sufirjp on May 2, 2010 14:39:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the comprehensive survey, HB! I'll let you know my thoughts as I slog through them.
Well, compared to the Darkhold/Midnight Suns work of the mid-'90s that I'll be reading for Chthon-related material, I'm sure that Werewolf by Night will be a joy. Suffering is the name of the game when it comes to understanding complex comics continuity issues, though, and it generally doesn't get more complex (or incoherent) than when dealing with horror comics (with the possible exception of Marvel's UK mythology).
With Jack Russell, he's appeared a few times over the last decade. Early on, he got his own short-lived series penned by Paul Jenkins with art by the phenomenal Leonardo Manco, but I've yet to read it. According to Wikipedia, he's had a one-shot and a limited series in the last few years, but I haven't read either, and I can't speak on Marvel Zombies, but it is read by Fred Van Lente, who is one of Marvel's best creators today.
Jack has also been featured in the new Punisher series, where Punisher has been revived post-mortem as a Frankenstein's Monster, aka Franken-Castle, by the Legion of Monsters to stop some Japanese monster hunters. A bit of campy fun, to be sure, but the writer takes some real liberties with the characters, including making Jack Russell a cheap Wolverine knock-off. Worth reading, though, as it's a refreshing change of pace for a series that has been far too same-y for too long.
Finally, in Wolverine: First Class #10-11, there's a fun-filled romp of Wolverine vs. werewolves, with some nice cameos by Jack Russell, although he's far from being the star of the story. Written (again) by the ever-active Fred Van Lente, the entire first year of this series is phenomenal, and I can't recommend it highly enough to push your nostalgia-buttons.
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Post by sufirjp on May 2, 2010 14:44:53 GMT -5
Man, Sufirjp, you've read just about everything, it seems! I appreciate the sentiment, but that's far from true. My list of "to be read" versus the "actually read" is always tipped against my favor. |
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Post by sufirjp on May 4, 2010 12:02:11 GMT -5
Since we've got a whole conversation thread started on Werewolf by Night, I thought I'd do an issue-by-issue mini-review. Feel free to follow along, and chime in with your thoughts.
Here's #2:
My initial impression is that this is barely a step above the bottom of the barrel Atlas material, worse than Stan Lee's old Black Knight series. More than anything, I'm reminded of some of the '50s Sub-Mariner stinkers I've read thanks to reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces. Mike Ploog is either inept or simply dialing the art in, as the characters are sketchy and the backgrounds are nonexistent.
Moreover, the complete lack of direction for this book is evident from the beginning. The first scene is a pointless battle with cops, then a fight with a shark that serves no service to the story whatsoever. They lay some pipe with a helicopter throwing a net onto the Werewolf before we have to suffer through some ham-handed melodrama. If Russell says, "There's just some things I can't share with anyone... some things connected to the full moon!"...
However, the interesting part is that we get to see the slow evolution of the Darkhold as a concept, Lovecraft-derived as it is. Further, it seems like Conway understands that a fuller origin story should be developed, because he keeps awkwardly trying to bring the story back around to "the Balkans".
Finally, the confrontation with Cephalos (mad scientist) and his nameless, dwarven sailor lackey was lackluster, insipid, and a classic example of weak plotting. The miserable issue ends with, once again, Jack wondering, "was it the wolf that directed his hand... or mine?" Jack, poor lad, really needs some more character.
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Post by Shiryu on May 4, 2010 15:03:41 GMT -5
Ugh, I've seen Mike Ploog's art only once and it was enough, didn't like it really. His women were pretty, but the Werewolf was more like a gorilla with fangs in some panels.
But yeah, the Darkhold was a fascinating concept, that would keep coming back over the years, especially in the saga of the Serpent Crown if I remember correctly.
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Post by sufirjp on May 4, 2010 17:14:39 GMT -5
But yeah, the Darkhold was a fascinating concept, that would keep coming back over the years, especially in the saga of the Serpent Crown if I remember correctly. Well, I don't recall the Serpent Crown Affair being particularly tied to the Darkhold, but that may be memory failing. It certainly played a huge role in the Dr. Strange series from the late '80s/early '90s, and took storm with the Midnight Suns line, neither of which I find particularly appealing, but will have to be the rock to my Sisyphus of Mt. Wundagore. |
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Doctor Bong
Young Avenger
Master of belly dancing! (No, really...)
Posts: 73
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Post by Doctor Bong on May 5, 2010 1:31:10 GMT -5
But yeah, the Darkhold was a fascinating concept, that would keep coming back over the years, especially in the saga of the Serpent Crown if I remember correctly. Well, I don't recall the Serpent Crown Affair being particularly tied to the Darkhold, but that may be memory failing. It certainly played a huge role in the Dr. Strange series from the late '80s/early '90s, and took storm with the Midnight Suns line, neither of which I find particularly appealing, but will have to be the rock to my Sisyphus of Mt. Wundagore. Well in the backup features which run in the Atlantis Attacks crossover it is explained that Chton influenced peoples of the different Earths in the multiverse to create the Serpent Crowns as a focus of his power in the Earth plane, as he had been banished physically from Earth eons ago. And Chton created the Darkhold before being exiled from our plane of existence. |
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Post by humanbelly on May 5, 2010 4:57:33 GMT -5
Well, I don't recall the Serpent Crown Affair being particularly tied to the Darkhold, but that may be memory failing. It certainly played a huge role in the Dr. Strange series from the late '80s/early '90s, and took storm with the Midnight Suns line, neither of which I find particularly appealing, but will have to be the rock to my Sisyphus of Mt. Wundagore. Well in the backup features which run in the Atlantis Attacks crossover it is explained that Chton influenced peoples of the different Earths in the multiverse to create the Serpent Crowns as a focus of his power in the Earth plane, as he had been banished physically from Earth eons ago. And Chton created the Darkhold before being exiled from our plane of existence. Hunh. I'm sure I've read it somewhere before, but how in the world did Jack's father (Gregory Russoff, was it?) get hold of that blamed book? I do believe there are facts beyond the traditional "came into his possession after years of seeking out rare occult lore-- razza-razza-razza"- but I'm not sure they were revealed in WWBN. And. . . I'll go ahead and take the risk and affirm that I really did like Ploog's art a lot. That's unusual for me, as my tastes run strongly to the photo-realistic (I may be one of the few folks who never fell totally in love w/ Jack Kirby)-- but I thought his fluidity, moodiness, and even "messy-ness" were great on this particular title. But make no mistake, his talents were clearly geared towards horror-based comics. I don't think his style would have had a prayer of supporting, say, Iron Man or the Fantastic Four. Possibly that would have been a kind of horror all its own. . . HB |
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Post by sufirjp on May 5, 2010 15:37:34 GMT -5
Well, I don't recall the Serpent Crown Affair being particularly tied to the Darkhold, but that may be memory failing. It certainly played a huge role in the Dr. Strange series from the late '80s/early '90s, and took storm with the Midnight Suns line, neither of which I find particularly appealing, but will have to be the rock to my Sisyphus of Mt. Wundagore. Well in the backup features which run in the Atlantis Attacks crossover it is explained that Chton influenced peoples of the different Earths in the multiverse to create the Serpent Crowns as a focus of his power in the Earth plane, as he had been banished physically from Earth eons ago. And Chton created the Darkhold before being exiled from our plane of existence. Huh. That's certainly possible, as I haven't read that stuff in a long, long time but I thought I recalled it was Set, not Chthon, that created the Serpent Crowns as his point of influence/contact, while Chthon employed the Darkhold primarily. I'll definitely need to re-read those. On a side note, there's actually another series of that sort as a backup feature in the late '80s Dr. Strange series, detailing the history of the Darkhold, which is pretty useful for understanding the whole mess. Now, if only someone would do that for the continuity of Ulysses Bloodstone or, more expansively, the entire Lifestone Tree (Man-Wolf's stone, the moonstone, etc.) |
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Post by sufirjp on May 5, 2010 15:41:43 GMT -5
Well in the backup features which run in the Atlantis Attacks crossover it is explained that Chton influenced peoples of the different Earths in the multiverse to create the Serpent Crowns as a focus of his power in the Earth plane, as he had been banished physically from Earth eons ago. And Chton created the Darkhold before being exiled from our plane of existence. Hunh. I'm sure I've read it somewhere before, but how in the world did Jack's father (Gregory Russoff, was it?) get hold of that blamed book? I do believe there are facts beyond the traditional "came into his possession after years of seeking out rare occult lore-- razza-razza-razza"- but I'm not sure they were revealed in WWBN. And. . . I'll go ahead and take the risk and affirm that I really did like Ploog's art a lot. That's unusual for me, as my tastes run strongly to the photo-realistic (I may be one of the few folks who never fell totally in love w/ Jack Kirby)-- but I thought his fluidity, moodiness, and even "messy-ness" were great on this particular title. But make no mistake, his talents were clearly geared towards horror-based comics. I don't think his style would have had a prayer of supporting, say, Iron Man or the Fantastic Four. Possibly that would have been a kind of horror all its own. . . HB I don't recall how the Darkhold fell into his hands, although I've probably read it in a summary somewhere. The first place I'd look would be the Handbooks, though. In regards to Ploog, while his design really helped set Russell apart from a generic werewolf, I can't shake the feeling that his compositions are lazy. His faces are far too similar, and the action seems stilted. He really reminds me of the hurried style of the Golden Age, where I felt he was just cranking out the pages, not crafting a labor of love. Of course, we're all entitled to our own opinions. I'm glad you're able to find some quality there that I'm missing. |
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Post by Shiryu on May 5, 2010 17:03:28 GMT -5
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Post by sufirjp on May 5, 2010 18:57:23 GMT -5
Without doubt! It has been a favorite of mine for the better part of a decade. Sadly, though, when it comes to expansive histories (such as the Darkhold) reading the issue-by-issue accounts can sometimes be confusing (see the Frankenstein profile as a great example). Hence, I'm hoping that actually reading every single issue will give me a better grasp on the subject manner. |
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Doctor Bong
Young Avenger
Master of belly dancing! (No, really...)
Posts: 73
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Post by Doctor Bong on May 6, 2010 0:59:39 GMT -5
Well in the backup features which run in the Atlantis Attacks crossover it is explained that Chton influenced peoples of the different Earths in the multiverse to create the Serpent Crowns as a focus of his power in the Earth plane, as he had been banished physically from Earth eons ago. And Chton created the Darkhold before being exiled from our plane of existence. Huh. That's certainly possible, as I haven't read that stuff in a long, long time but I thought I recalled it was Set, not Chthon, that created the Serpent Crowns as his point of influence/contact, while Chthon employed the Darkhold primarily. I'll definitely need to re-read those. On a side note, there's actually another series of that sort as a backup feature in the late '80s Dr. Strange series, detailing the history of the Darkhold, which is pretty useful for understanding the whole mess. Now, if only someone would do that for the continuity of Ulysses Bloodstone or, more expansively, the entire Lifestone Tree (Man-Wolf's stone, the moonstone, etc.) Yes! You're absolutely correct! Sadly the ol' memory isn't what it used to be and I got my elder gods confused... . And such an obvious error on my part, too: Set, elder snake god=Serpent Crown... well, duh! |
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Post by sufirjp on May 13, 2010 20:28:46 GMT -5
Sorry I've been too busy to write up reviews of these comics, but I thought I should present a detailed analysis. I haven't forgotten this project, just been busy with the rest of my life. So, here's...
#3: Beginning with an intro sequence that was clearly visually inspired by Jim Steranko's moody experiments in "Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD", Mike Ploog gives his all here, and it shows. While not particularly well-executed, it's nice to see that he can occasionally rise up to the challenge a writer presents him with.
This rather inspired (if poorly executed) horror sequence is immediately followed by a ridiculous scene wherein Russell is driving and "forgets" that there's a full moon that night. Hasn't the trauma of becoming a werewolf had a strong enough impact on Russell that he pays more attention to the lunar calendar? He's become a monster and murderer, yet he takes no greater steps to control his condition at this point than failing to take a sleeping pill! While this is just an excuse to have an action sequence where the vehicle careens out of control, as there's a werewolf behind the wheel, Conway is (as usual) doing the issue by-the-numbers, it seems.
The fault here really lies with Roy Thomas, though, because as editor he should've recognized lazy plotting when he saw it and demanded more of his writer. Maybe it's just because of recently reading some interviews with Shooter and Owlsley/Priest, but this strikes me as indicative of everything that's wrong about '70s Marvel, and what makes so many of these stories painful to read. With an editorial staff letting the writers and artists cheat their way through bad stories, they often seem rushed and incoherent, especially the horror and kung-fu lines. Anyways, back to the comic at hand.
The evil step-father plot continues to drag on, yet I still find no investment in this aspect of the story, and simply hope they wrap it up soon. There can only be so many times the truth is "revealed" before Phillip either needs to die or be arrested. Anyways, in this issue it's just an excuse to put the lady in distress.
After this, the story starts to heat up as we get a portion of the Darkhold's history revealed with the origin of Aelfric and, in part, the origin of Jack Russell. While Conway hasn't impressed me much, I have to say that there's something to be admired here. He's been pretty careful about slowly laying out the origin, giving us piece by tantalizing piece. They seem to indicate at this point that the Darkhold was written by Aelfric, although it is never directly said, and there's that great bit about "a demon that has lain dormant in your ancestors veins for eighteen centuries". Well, that indicates that the Russoff curse is a bit older than Baron Russoff, but it'll be a story told at another time. My favorite bit of Darkhold history, though, is the string of murders for the books possession. I think that Marvel's writers could really milk this idea in the modern day, with a string of minor Dr. Strange foes murdering each other for the book's secrets, making the book a magical Maltese Falcon.
Our man Ploog seems to understand this backstory is the cornerstone of this issue, because his two most outstanding images in this issue are embedded here, with the rather psychedelic image of Aelfric murdering the knight, along with Aelfric's melting face. A chilling image, to be sure, and reminiscent of the best of the '50s horror mags.
In our next sequence, we get to see what sort of threat that Aelfric presents, and I have to say the Grey Death is quite a doozy. A magical version of chemical weapons nightmares from WWI and II, the idea of a gas that sloughs off flesh is pretty frightening. At last, I feel like we've gotten an adversary for Jack that's worthy of him.
Sadly, Conway fails to recognize what a great villain he's potentially got on his hands, because when it comes to the confrontation, it's a real yawner. Dragonus is ridiculous, and the accidental goring of Aelfric is anticlimatic. Moreover, it directly contradicts what had previously been established in the story. Remember when the knight's blade bounced off Aelfric and he says, "None may touch Aelfric, for Aelfric has power over all?" Yeah, well, turns out he's not so invulnerable to... whatever Dragonus is supposed to be (a minotaur, I guess). The story's finally wrapped with a belabored set of Christian images whose moral is that evil is a palpable force. This seems pretty weak and half-hearted, and I expect Conway just shoehorned it in to try and appease any fundamentalist mothers who happened to read the comic.
Overall? While the story is certainly a step up from previous issues, and both Conway and Ploog have begun to hit their stride, this is still far from a great comic. With stronger editorial control this could've been some really memorable, but is instead an inconsistent mess. Let's hope their hit/miss ratio improves.
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