Doctor Bong
Young Avenger
Master of belly dancing! (No, really...)
Posts: 73
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 30, 2010 9:45:49 GMT -5
Up to #280. I was enjoying enormously recently rereading it, before my reading material sources were shut down... . Oh daggone it--- I was wondering what you were refering to, hoping against hope that it wasn't what I feared. So I went to check out Freecomicsonline. . . and it's gone! GONE! RAAAARGH---WHY MUST HUMANBELLY'S FAVORITE WEBSITES GO AWAY??? Blast, blast, blast--- HB All Humanbelly wants is to be left alone but puny humans are always hounding Humanbelly! But Humanbelly is the strongest there is! The hungrier Humanbelly gets, the stronger he gets! Humanbelly smash! But seriously, folks, I hate being the deliverer of such grim tidings. Here's hoping it not a permanent thing... .
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 30, 2010 16:37:42 GMT -5
Oops. Just found your Hulk thread. Sorry that I cross-posted over in the "introduce yourself" thread, but it doesn't look like anything I had to say there has much impact on the current discussion. Which I can't really spend any time commenting on, as I haven't read a lot of pre-PAD Hulk. I'll need to read select issues here and there, as I'm currently trying to get a better understanding of the whole Red Raven/Sky People/Bi-Beast story, which frequently involves the Hulk. I'm also intending to read through Man-Beast's continuity, which intersects with the Hulk at various points, as part of my larger "Mt. Wundagore Chronology Project", wherein I read every comic that ties into Transia (High Evolutionary, Chthon, Spider-Woman, Puppet Master, Werewolf by Night, etc., etc.) Oh my heavens, Suf, that latter reading quest of yours would give even the stoutest comics scholars reason to pause and double-check their girded loins-! Man- Werewolf by Night? That means you and I will be the only two folks on earth who have read that series. . . (there was a brief point where Hulk and WWBN were the only two titles I was able to buy). And yep, the Man Beast meets his apparent demise in Hulk #176-178. Or at least gets devolved into a . . . stringy wolf? A jackal? A hayena? It's a little unclear. What the heck was he? Hulk also encountered him in issue # 158. Say, has the High Ev returned from whatever his last apparent demise was? He's always been kind of a second-tier cosmic/godlike character, so every writer seems willing to kill him off without expecting consequences. . . HB
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Post by humanbelly on Apr 30, 2010 16:45:33 GMT -5
Oh daggone it--- I was wondering what you were refering to, hoping against hope that it wasn't what I feared. So I went to check out Freecomicsonline. . . and it's gone! GONE! RAAAARGH---WHY MUST HUMANBELLY'S FAVORITE WEBSITES GO AWAY??? Blast, blast, blast--- HB All Humanbelly wants is to be left alone but puny humans are always hounding Humanbelly! But Humanbelly is the strongest there is! The hungrier Humanbelly gets, the stronger he gets! Humanbelly smash! But seriously, folks, I hate being the deliverer of such grim tidings. Here's hoping it not a permanent thing... . Ha! Okay, I'm totally going to hit you with an exalt for this, and thereby help to rebuild your artificially-depleted Karma rating. . . ! HB
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Post by sufirjp on May 1, 2010 15:45:05 GMT -5
Have you already read "Atlantis Attacks"? I have. I had the entire series when I was younger, and recently reacquired them. However, it's been nearly twenty years, so I'll have to reacquaint. I remember they wrote a great chronology for Set/Chthon/etc., but that it was rather broad in scope. Thanks for the recommendation, though!
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Post by sufirjp on May 1, 2010 15:57:45 GMT -5
Oh my heavens, Suf, that latter reading quest of yours would give even the stoutest comics scholars reason to pause and double-check their girded loins-! Man- Werewolf by Night? That means you and I will be the only two folks on earth who have read that series. . . (there was a brief point where Hulk and WWBN were the only two titles I was able to buy). And yep, the Man Beast meets his apparent demise in Hulk #176-178. Or at least gets devolved into a . . . stringy wolf? A jackal? A hayena? It's a little unclear. What the heck was he? Hulk also encountered him in issue # 158. Say, has the High Ev returned from whatever his last apparent demise was? He's always been kind of a second-tier cosmic/godlike character, so every writer seems willing to kill him off without expecting consequences. . . HB Well, I'm a long way from the current point in High Evolutionary continuity. I did just read a fantastic appearance by him, though, in Fred Van Lente's phenomenal run on Wolverine: First Class , which is one of the only X-books I've read in the last few years (because Van Lente was writing it). However, I suspect that it is rather difficult to find interesting stories to write about HE himself. His best function, I suspect, is to act as a type of "weirdness tour guide", as Gruenwald did with his "Whatever Happened To Counter-Earth?" storyline in MTIO, and DeFalco recreated in his Thor run, wherein HE watches an evolutionary moment in Ego's Black Galaxy. But, to be sure, there are many, many tangents that lead to Mt. Wundagore. The continuity of such a place is so... diverse, that it can seem daunting. Still, it makes me think an "X & the New Men" series (where X=Spider-Woman, Quicksilver, Modred the Mystic, Werewolf by Night, etc.) could have some real legs, although the Quicksilver LS from the '90s goes a long way towards changing my mind. In regards to Werewolf by Night, it is certainly one of the greater challenges involved in such a process. I have made it through his Marvel Premiere issues so far, and have started slowly slogging through the series. What surprises me most about the horror and kung-fu comics of the '70s is the writers complete lack of investment in storytelling in far too many of these comics. The antagonists are bland and faceless, one generic Satanic cult or bully cop after another, existing only to highlight the core concept of the comic, over and over. I know that Jack Russell is deeply tied into the history of Mt. Wundagore, though, so I feel that there must (eventually) be some payoff.
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Post by humanbelly on May 1, 2010 19:26:55 GMT -5
In regards to Werewolf by Night, it is certainly one of the greater challenges involved in such a process. I have made it through his Marvel Premiere issues so far, and have started slowly slogging through the series. What surprises me most about the horror and kung-fu comics of the '70s is the writers complete lack of investment in storytelling in far too many of these comics. The antagonists are bland and faceless, one generic Satanic cult or bully cop after another, existing only to highlight the core concept of the comic, over and over. I know that Jack Russell is deeply tied into the history of Mt. Wundagore, though, so I feel that there must (eventually) be some payoff. Oh say, this would be the perfect opportunity to pop over to Shiryu's new Nostalgia Board--- I'll touch back on WWBN over there momentarily. . . HB
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Post by humanbelly on May 20, 2010 16:09:09 GMT -5
I'm. . . I'm up to issue #332. And am faced with the realization that there was a long string of months (if not years??) where I never read these books when I got them!!! I'd forgotten how wildly disenchanted I'd been by the John Byrne-to-Al Milgrom bait & switch. Amidst HUGE hoopla & fanfare, Byrne came onto the book to wreck his transformational havoc-- er-- magic, did six completely un-researched, poorly-written (though nicely drawn) issues, and disappeared w/out a word or even an acknowledgment at all that this unexpected change in creative staff had come about.
Before all of that happened, Bill Mantlo, Sal Buscema & Gerry Talaoc put together the whole Dimensional Crossroads series of tales which were. . . 'way, 'way, 'way better than I had remembered. I believe many folks put them on their list of "worst Hulk arcs ever" (as did I, frankly), but--- Mantlo's writing was quite well-crafted, and displayed far more depth than I'd associated with him. Possibly just shy of truly great-- but quite good, regardless. And Sal MUST look back at these issues as possibly some of his best penciling ever--- and sigh over the fact that it's largely forgotten. And Taloc's style, while unusual, sometimes had a Severin-like quality to it. Overall, an arc that developed with a careful, deliberate slowness that I think served it well-- just nobody liked it (sigh).
And a word in defense of Al Milgrom: He's not a bad plotter at all, and he clearly has enormous respect for his subject matter. And he can be a pretty good scripter, too. But lordy, those pencils. And given a weak inker-- the results can be terrifying. . .
But now we've hit the very, very first Peter David/Todd McFarlane issues! Good times are a-comin', I believe-- but as I said, I had stopped actually reading these issues, so it's all new-discovery for me, here.
Back to the grind-
HB
(Later addendum) (Might as well go ahead and just put a stake through the heart of any possible deeper interest on you kind folks' part. . . !)
Within the last 50 or so issues, there have been a number of milestones:
-The emergence for a sustained period of the Hulk personna which would later be called "The Professor". Hulk w/ Banner's brain, as it were.
-Dr. Kate somebody becomes an INTENSE love interest for Bruce-! Looks like the real thing!
-The Hulk's pardon followed by his mental collapse; Bruce's self-induced brain-death; emergence of a completely savage, non-cognizant Hulk.
-Banishment to the Crossroads Dimension.
-Return from Banishment so John Byrne can play god.
-Bruce & Betty get married.
-Ross falls 'wayyyyyy down the slippery slope and becomes irretrievably mentally ill (tries to kill Rick Jones twice, among other things), and ultimately dies saving Betty from a truly grotesque little brain mutant.
-Rick becomes the new green Hulk (!), while Bruce reverts to Grey.
Here's something everyone missed (unless I've missed that it wasn't missed. . .): Dr. Kate-somebody could clearly. . . CLEARLY. . . have borne Bruce's child. The timeline and surrounding circumstances make it such a glaring possibility that one could almost argue that it's a PROBability. Man, there's no continuity stretch or anything. One could literally point to the appropriate page and say, "yes, the baby was conceived right before this panel. About, say, 6 or 7 hours prior. . . ". I would love to see this happen. And would much prefer to see sincere, perservering, forgotten Dr Kate end up with Bruce than historically histrionic, unstable, fickle, self-involved, mean-spirited Betty Ross Talbot Banner. In a way, Betty's almost a great character just because she's such a lousy character-!
Hey and guess where Rocket Raccoon first appeared? THE HULK! Yes, that's right, fans! 2nd only to the first appearance of Woverine!! Yep, Incredible Hulk's the place to be. . .
HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on May 24, 2010 20:47:46 GMT -5
I found "Spider-Man versus The Incredible Hulk at the Winter Olympics" Marvel Treasury at a local used bookstore this weekend. I don't know, but 1970s to about 1980ish era Hulk always looked really awesome to me.
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Post by humanbelly on May 25, 2010 4:53:07 GMT -5
I found "Spider-Man versus The Incredible Hulk at the Winter Olympics" Marvel Treasury at a local used bookstore this weekend. I don't know, but 1970s to about 1980ish era Hulk always looked really awesome to me. *sniff*. . . Forgive me everyone. . . Kidcage has caught me off-guard. . . I'm a bit choked up. . . Oh, an exalt for you, pal---- w/out a doubt. Herb Trimpe's Hulk is almost certainly the one you're liking (although I'm not sure who drew that Treasury Edition. I've heard of it, but I've never seen it-! Quite a find. . . ). HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on May 25, 2010 17:38:57 GMT -5
*sniff*. . . Forgive me everyone. . . Kidcage has caught me off-guard. . . I'm a bit choked up. . . Oh, an exalt for you, pal---- w/out a doubt. Herb Trimpe's Hulk is almost certainly the one you're liking (although I'm not sure who drew that Treasury Edition. I've heard of it, but I've never seen it-! Quite a find. . . ). HB Why thank you sir. Yeah, I found it for $5 along with Treasury #9 (Greatest Team Up? Has Spidey/Surfer, Thor/Hulk, DD/Cap, and Thing/Namor stories) Like I said, the art for Hulk at this time I enjoyed, reminds me of an old puzzle of Hulk saving a schoolbus. Anywho, this is a pic of the issue, just in case for reference.
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Post by sharkar on May 26, 2010 18:25:38 GMT -5
I found "Spider-Man versus The Incredible Hulk at the Winter Olympics" Marvel Treasury at a local used bookstore this weekend. That's pretty cool. And I'm still drooling over your acquisition of Journey Into Mystery Annual#1!
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Post by Ignore Me! on May 30, 2010 17:27:05 GMT -5
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Post by humanbelly on May 31, 2010 6:41:47 GMT -5
Yeesh! How squirmy! That's one of the few issues of the old Incredible Hulk magazine-format that I don't have, in fact. Let's see- material inappropriate for the younger readers that were indeed buying the book; situation not well-handled from a societal viewpoint (i.e.- attempted serial rapists remain free to prey on others & suffer no consequences); Banner's non-reaction completely out of character, w/ an inane justification; doesn't serve any enlightening or thought-provoking purpose at all--- just an extremely ugly, trashy incident in the story that doesn't rise above the level of shock value. Ugh. . . HB
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Post by freedomfighter on May 31, 2010 18:55:04 GMT -5
Yeesh! How squirmy! That's one of the few issues of the old Incredible Hulk magazine-format that I don't have, in fact. Let's see- material inappropriate for the younger readers that were indeed buying the book; situation not well-handled from a societal viewpoint (i.e.- attempted serial rapists remain free to prey on others & suffer no consequences); Banner's non-reaction completely out of character, w/ an inane justification; doesn't serve any enlightening or thought-provoking purpose at all--- just an extremely ugly, trashy incident in the story that doesn't rise above the level of shock value. Ugh. . . HB Actually the story is based on an incident that happened to Shooter in real life... goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/03/25/friday-in-the-shooter-gallery/
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 1, 2010 20:42:15 GMT -5
Yeesh! How squirmy! That's one of the few issues of the old Incredible Hulk magazine-format that I don't have, in fact. Let's see- material inappropriate for the younger readers that were indeed buying the book; situation not well-handled from a societal viewpoint (i.e.- attempted serial rapists remain free to prey on others & suffer no consequences); Banner's non-reaction completely out of character, w/ an inane justification; doesn't serve any enlightening or thought-provoking purpose at all--- just an extremely ugly, trashy incident in the story that doesn't rise above the level of shock value. Ugh. . . HB Actually the story is based on an incident that happened to Shooter in real life... goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/03/25/friday-in-the-shooter-gallery/I didn't quite get that level of specificity from the link, but even if that's the case--- man, at some point the editorial brain has to prevail and ask, "Wait a minute, even if this is cathartic for me, is it really something our fans will want to read? Or at the very least, will it have an important, positive effect on them?" I don't know-- horrible near-misses with sexual predators is just a hard-sell as entertainment in my mind. Too many folks have lived it, actually, and to be casually reminded of it in a comic book-? I. . . don't see the plus side to the equation, as much as my heart goes out to Jim S if he indeed survived this scenario. HB
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Post by freedomfighter on Jun 2, 2010 0:23:48 GMT -5
I didn't quite get that level of specificity from the link, but even if that's the case--- man, at some point the editorial brain has to prevail and ask, "Wait a minute, even if this is cathartic for me, is it really something our fans will want to read? Or at the very least, will it have an important, positive effect on them?" I don't know-- horrible near-misses with sexual predators is just a hard-sell as entertainment in my mind. Too many folks have lived it, actually, and to be casually reminded of it in a comic book-? I. . . don't see the plus side to the equation, as much as my heart goes out to Jim S if he indeed survived this scenario. HB You're right...here's a more concise link. www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=69312It's discussed as a small part of a much larger and more interesting story about gays and comics and their fans here...
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 2, 2010 13:46:14 GMT -5
I didn't quite get that level of specificity from the link, but even if that's the case--- man, at some point the editorial brain has to prevail and ask, "Wait a minute, even if this is cathartic for me, is it really something our fans will want to read? Or at the very least, will it have an important, positive effect on them?" I don't know-- horrible near-misses with sexual predators is just a hard-sell as entertainment in my mind. Too many folks have lived it, actually, and to be casually reminded of it in a comic book-? I. . . don't see the plus side to the equation, as much as my heart goes out to Jim S if he indeed survived this scenario. HB You're right...here's a more concise link. www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=69312It's discussed as a small part of a much larger and more interesting story about gays and comics and their fans here... Very interesting article, FF. It in fact mentioned a trend amongst my gay comic-book reading friends (I'm a theater professional. . . a huge percentage of my friends and co-workers for the last 30 years have been gay. And a surprising number of comic book folks contained within that sphere.) that I'd noticed back in the early 90's: X-Men was almost always the preferred title. I assumed it was for almost exactly the reason mentioned in the article. As far as gay characters go-- yeesh, the problem is that no company is likely going to "out" a popular, mainstream character, as it were, for fear of possible public backlash. Batwoman is certainly a step in the right direction, as are Hulkling & Wiccan-- but I'd like to see a commitment to a likable, adult male gay superhero. I kinda don't count Northstar, as he's always struck me as a third-stringer. . . and because he has all the personal warmth of Pietro Maximoff. Not a likable guy at all. And THEN, once sexual orientation is quietly revealed, it needs to NOT be made into focal point for the book! That's the hardest trick of all-- but would be the best way to handle it. Make it NOT a big deal in the telling of the stories. Possibly controversial topic we're touching here. Hopefully no hornets' nests getting stirred up. . . HB
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Post by freedomfighter on Jun 3, 2010 10:34:29 GMT -5
You're right...here's a more concise link. www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=69312It's discussed as a small part of a much larger and more interesting story about gays and comics and their fans here... Very interesting article, FF. It in fact mentioned a trend amongst my gay comic-book reading friends (I'm a theater professional. . . a huge percentage of my friends and co-workers for the last 30 years have been gay. And a surprising number of comic book folks contained within that sphere.) that I'd noticed back in the early 90's: X-Men was almost always the preferred title. I assumed it was for almost exactly the reason mentioned in the article. As far as gay characters go-- yeesh, the problem is that no company is likely going to "out" a popular, mainstream character, as it were, for fear of possible public backlash. Batwoman is certainly a step in the right direction, as are Hulkling & Wiccan-- but I'd like to see a commitment to a likable, adult male gay superhero. I kinda don't count Northstar, as he's always struck me as a third-stringer. . . and because he has all the personal warmth of Pietro Maximoff. Not a likable guy at all. And THEN, once sexual orientation is quietly revealed, it needs to NOT be made into focal point for the book! That's the hardest trick of all-- but would be the best way to handle it. Make it NOT a big deal in the telling of the stories. Possibly controversial topic we're touching here. Hopefully no hornets' nests getting stirred up. . . HB doubtful it'll stir up a hornet's nest. we're a well read bunch here and fairly open when it comes to civil liberties (I don't think I've ever seen a negative comment towards gays or lesbians here). And I think we've all seen the hamhanded way comics have tried to make relevant minority characters. Someone once pointed out that Marvel has no in-between black characters- either they're pimps and street hustlers (Falcon and Luke Cage) or royalty/genius millionaire types (Black Panther, Storm, Black Goliath, Night Thrasher). It's a long road...
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 4, 2010 13:30:36 GMT -5
[ doubtful it'll stir up a hornet's nest. we're a well read bunch here and fairly open when it comes to civil liberties (I don't think I've ever seen a negative comment towards gays or lesbians here). And I think we've all seen the hamhanded way comics have tried to make relevant minority characters. Someone once pointed out that Marvel has no in-between black characters- either they're pimps and street hustlers (Falcon and Luke Cage) or royalty/genius millionaire types (Black Panther, Storm, Black Goliath, Night Thrasher). It's a long road... Boy, you're right-- I'd never given it much thought. And I'm scouring my memory to see what exceptions there might be. Monica Rambeau comes to mind, actually. Captain Marvel II/Photon/someone else, I think. She was. . . Coast Guard, I think? Something like that? Solid law enforcement officer-- but definitely not niche'd because of her racial identity (and her parents- ha!- they could've been just about of any ethnic or racial group you'd care to name, and could still have been written the same way. I did enjoy them, for all their old-fashioned contrivance!) Hey, and maybe Rage. He was from a poorer background, but had a loving grandmother. And I believe he was a very bookish kid until the accident that transformed him. If anything, his fool name ("Rage"? , for a kid who really seemed more cerebrally-inclined even after changing into a giant mountain of muscle??) was the ridiculously stereotypical aspect of his character. Can't---- can't come up with a single other one offhand, though-- Rats-- HB
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kidcage
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 167
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Post by kidcage on Jun 7, 2010 13:40:34 GMT -5
Captain Marvel (Photon, etc) is a great example. What about Patriot (of the Young Avengers), pretty much just a teen with traces of Super Soldier serum?
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 26, 2010 6:47:00 GMT -5
Jumping back to the topic of ol' Greenskin-- (heh)--
I've arrived at the point where Peter David's stories were seriously compromised by the Onslaught event, and he was seemingly given a set of parameters to work with, whether he liked it or not. Admittedly, his plots were already starting to drift badly, and the artistic direction had taken a seriously unfortunate turn towards that trendy, hyper-stylized 90's look (Angel Medina & a less-established Mike Deadato, to name two of the many artists) that really didn't work for this book after McFarlane's run. At this point, not very good comics--- and there's that old, familiar feeling that it's time for a shift of writers after all these years.
On another front, I picked up most of the recent re-launch of Incrdible Hulk (starts w/ #600)-- and was stunned to find that good ol' Greg Pak has just been doing a whirlwind of research in the last year or so, and been bringing in long-forgotten details and threads! There's Dr. Kate Wanesboro, whom I'd just mentioned recently! Who knew? He pulls the long-lost Atomic Armor suit (from Tales to Astonish #'s 59-60) literally back from the bowels of the earth-- something that's been nagging at me for months-! The Harpy makes a cameo (although it's inexplicably Marlo this time. . . )! I must confess that I had no idea there was this Ska'ar- Son of Hulk guy running around, nor that there was a new Savage She Hulk. While not being badly written, they just seem so. . . extraneous to me. And, okay, this whole World War Hulks/Fall of the Hulks mega-event is just incomprehensible to me-- there are FAR too many titles to buy, and I don't have any sense of complete co-ordination between them from the ones I've picked up, which would be crucial. But I do feel like there's a sense of respect for this extended cast of characters and their long, long history, even while new directions are being explored. This is nice.
HB
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Post by sharkar on Jul 22, 2010 20:37:57 GMT -5
*Whew* Up to issue #200, now...And we finally lost Herb Trimpe with issue #193, I believe. CLEARLY he had grown very bored with this book-- the art was never worse than when he was allowed to ink his own pencils....There'd still be flashes of brilliance-- but there was also a pervading sense of just-getting-it-done. Jack Abel inked for several issues, followed by Joe Staton. And Joe Staton was GREAT. I mean, no question. And, like Dick Giardono & Joe Sinnott (mentioned elsewhere), his style was instrumental in easing the otherwise-unthinkable transition from Herb Trimpe to Sal Buscema. I believe he's an unsung hero for this particular period. Like his brother John (and many other pencilers), Sal has strong opinions about inkers, and these opinions are included in Sal Buscema: Comics' Fast & Furious Artist. He's pretty harsh when it comes to Staton; he didn't like Staton's inks "at all." Sal said at the time he (SB) was doing "very tight" breakdowns--"everything was there except the black areas. There was no guesswork on the part of the inker. All he (Staton) had to do was spot the blacks and I just didn't like what he did with my penciling. His style was so different from mine." I'm. . . I'm up to issue #332... Before all of that happened, Bill Mantlo, Sal Buscema & Gerry Talaoc put together the whole Dimensional Crossroads series of tales which were. . . 'way, 'way, 'way better than I had remembered...And Sal MUST look back at these issues as possibly some of his best penciling ever--- and sigh over the fact that it's largely forgotten. And Taloc's style, while unusual, sometimes had a Severin-like quality to it. In the book, Sal is unstinting in his praise for Talaoc and says Talaoc made Sal "look good." Again, Sal was doing breakdowns (though not as detailed as earlier) and according to Sal, the key was that Talaoc "...was a terrific draughtsman and...could draw better than I did." And there's more: "I loved what he did" and "I have nothing but glowing words to say about him." BTW, the book is fantastic, a great read--it's a series of interviews with Sal about his work, his methods, John B, Marvel, the comic book industry, his dealings with Stan, Shooter, Mantlo, et al. There's a ton of art (some in color), including a self-portrait. Available at TwoMorrows, Amazon, B&N, etc. (I bought my softcover copy from a Japanese bookstore; it was nestled there among the manga--and for half-price! )
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Post by sharkar on Jul 22, 2010 21:05:08 GMT -5
... And I think we've all seen the hamhanded way comics have tried to make relevant minority characters. Someone once pointed out that Marvel has no in-between black characters- either they're pimps and street hustlers (Falcon and Luke Cage) or royalty/genius millionaire types (Black Panther, Storm, Black Goliath, Night Thrasher). It's a long road... Boy, you're right-- I'd never given it much thought. And I'm scouring my memory to see what exceptions there might be. Monica Rambeau comes to mind, actually. Captain Marvel II/Photon/someone else, I think. She was. . . Coast Guard, I think? Something like that? Solid law enforcement officer-- but definitely not niche'd because of her racial identity (and her parents- ha!- they could've been just about of any ethnic or racial group you'd care to name, and could still have been written the same way. I did enjoy them, for all their old-fashioned contrivance!) Hey, and maybe Rage. He was from a poorer background, but had a loving grandmother. And I believe he was a very bookish kid until the accident that transformed him. Captain Marvel (Photon, etc) is a great example. What about Patriot (of the Young Avengers), pretty much just a teen with traces of Super Soldier serum? Not a superhero but a character who avoids being at either end of this spectrum (IMO) is Joe "Robbie" Robertson. He comes off as real -- not "royalty/genius/millionaire" and not a "pimp/street hustler." A well-rounded, interesting character.
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Post by humanbelly on Jul 23, 2010 7:27:30 GMT -5
Not a superhero but a character who avoids being at either end of this spectrum (IMO) is Joe "Robbie" Robertson. He comes off as real -- not "royalty/genius/millionaire" and not a "pimp/street hustler." A well-rounded, interesting character. Yes, good catch, Shar. Particularly so, as he was added into the canon very, very early on, before that "dregs or heights" tendency for black characters would seem to have kicked in. Robbie would be just as remarkable if he were white, asian, hispanic, etc, with that driving sense of integrity that could drop a dissembler at 30 paces. Too bad it couldn't have been a reasonable vehicle for, like, Sidney Poitier or Morgan Freeman in the films. HB
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Post by humanbelly on May 8, 2011 20:05:39 GMT -5
I'm back, I'm back, I'm back. FINALLY got the long-missing issue #455, and have continued onward. This was the very end of Peter David's run, when he'd been de-railed by Heroes Reborn, and then upon reunification was told that the character needed to be taken in directions he wasn't interested in. In all fairness, the book hadn't been very good for quite some time, although his last two issues (Betty's death, and then a "future" retrospective featuring Rick Jones w/ the stories that "might have been") were both surprisingly moving. We got an interim arc written by Joe Casey, which was not too bad in spite of very sub-par art by a fellow named Pulido-- and then they canceled & immediately re-launched with HULK #1, written by god's-gift (groan) John Byrne-- which they'd been crowing about throughout Casey's brief tenure. Sheesh. Aaaaand true to form, Byrne talked about big plans and promises and directions. . . and then disappeared after 8 issues of convoluted, unfocused, overwritten drek. He may in fact be the Father of Decompression, as the first THREE issues pretty much cover just a few hours, if that, once you get all of the flashbacks and alternating points of view accounted for. Heh, I've just checked wikipedia, and they back up my take on how poorly Byrne's writing was received in general. Ron Garney's artwork, while not stylistically my cup of tea, was exceedingly dynamic.
I. . . I just have a feeling I'm going to have to plow all the way to Planet Hulk before we get back to Hulk comics that I actually liked again. I'm dreading the long tenure of Bruce Jones that I know is in front of me. . .
*sigh*-- it's hard to be a faithful fan sometimes. . .
HB
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Post by starfoxxx on May 9, 2011 14:38:03 GMT -5
Hey, I hate to distract from this thread, but I saw it was recently revisited , and Planet Hulk was mentioned......
I just saw "PLANET HULK" the cartoon/movie on Toon Disney, and it was very well done, and not the super-crossover confusing mess that happened in the comics. I recommend checking it out, but I wonder what the hard-core Hulksters thought about it???
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Post by humanbelly on May 10, 2011 5:07:57 GMT -5
I have to shamefacedly confess that I've never picked it up-! Although I've seen and liked the trailer, true. Usually, these dvd's cost more than I care to put out, so I haven't gotten into the habit of buying them. Hmm-- perhaps the library?
I'm sorry the original series didn't grab you, though. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it--- even though I was expecting to hate it. IIRC, it was running at about the same time as Thor's title was winding down, with a sort of alternate-Asgardian future in play. . . and it was also captivating. I was struck by how both titles had divorced themselves, pretty much, from the mainstream continuity, and were bearing unusually rich fruit. Planet Hulk (not the later crossover mess which drove me away, also-- World War Hulk, and all that) was a commendable example of solid, extended story-telling in comic book form. No decompression indulgences--- it worked and sustained interest month-to-month AND it reads well as a larger, single story. I do think Pak has lost a bit of his sharpness w/ the title & related characters of late-- but I still appreciate his immersion in deep, DEEP MU history to draw his plot elements from.
Although, yeesh, Tyrannus this month? That yahoo? AGAIN?? He's pretty much the least impressive "big" antagonist ever--- heck, I'm wondering if he's EVER appeared in any other title-?
Ah, tangents, tangents. . .
HB
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Post by Shiryu on May 12, 2011 16:13:45 GMT -5
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Post by humanbelly on May 13, 2011 9:02:08 GMT -5
Oh, buh-(as they say) rother! Aaaaaaaand is there some sort of perception in the fan world that this is "the end" of the Hulk's ongoing series? The couple of comments after the article would sort of suggest that, at least. 'Cause, yep, we've just experienced "final" issues of Fantastic Four AND Thor in the last couple of months--- and I'm SURE there are some others that I'm not aware of--- and that was clearly the end of those titles, too, eh? Certainly, it's a fitting tribute to Greg Pak's long, momentous run on the book(s). But really, the only question is whether they'll simply move everything over to the OTHER Hulk title ("Hulk"), or whether they'll just start all over again with yet another 1st issue collector's item smash-bang classic special hot-hot-hot razzarazzarazza title. A re-launch, in other words. For those not completely stupified by the minutia-- Incredible Hulk hasn't run for 635 issues, no matter how you look at it. After his own inaugural six-issue run, his numbering STARTED (at best) with Tales to Astonish #59, when he came into the book as a regular feature. He then took over TtA's numbering for his book with issue #102, when he & Subby split up into solo books. His run (which wasn't interrupted by Heroes Reborn, miraculously) ended with issue #474, I believe, and was followed the very next month w/ a re-launch as #1. (I'm about 25 issues into that run in my read-through). Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, that run also came to an end, and was followed by another re-launch after the Bruce Jones era, which is the book that Red Hulk currently inhabits. "Incredible Hulk(s)" then popped up right after (or kinda during) the World War Hulks event, starting off with issue #600, right? We just have to assume that this wasn't an arbitrary sales ploy, and really followed some kind of proper, synchronized, concurrent numbering pattern. But if Marvel wants to give the impression that there's been this 635-issue run for this title---? Please-- a little respect for us older fans AND for easily-confirmed historical fact. . . HB ps-- thanks for poppin' into the Lonely Corner, Shir-- yer a pal! You too, Starfoxxx!
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Post by Shiryu on May 13, 2011 16:18:24 GMT -5
Uhm, usually Marvel is pretty accurate with its numbering, except for when a series took over from a different magazine, like Thor whose first 81 issues don't really exist. So I would assume we have really had 635 issues with old greenskin. He was created some time before Spidey, wasn't he?
As for the closure, I'm sure it's not permanent, but we may have a hiatus for a few years, like it happened with Thor after Disassembled until JMS restarted it. I wonder if it means that sales aren't very good -- I must admit his' is one of the very few books I don't even glance at, just not my cup of tea.
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