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Post by humanbelly on Jun 4, 2009 15:21:38 GMT -5
Avengers #53 came in the mail yesterday. . . aaaaaaand I'm going to go out on a limb, here:
Somewhere at its core, this issue had some faint, but unmistakable, resonances of feeling. . . "Avengery", for lack of a better word. Now, it's veiled by the following continuing problems:
1) No particularly distinct speaking patterns for any of the characters. As always, everyone speaks with the same flippant, slightly-slacker voice. 2) This hopeless reliance on swearing to make everyone sound, geeze, I don't know-- "cool?" I'm in professional theater, for heaven's sake-- we're a pretty creatively foul-mouthed bunch. Some extremely so (self included). BUT- it's a terrible, lazy crutch for this writer to use, and it damages his characters (Dr. Strange? Never. Peter Parker? With that aunt of his?? Nope-- he's so delightfully square, the fact that he WOULDN'T swear speaks volumes about his character). 3) The completely un-interesting Hood, and the who-gives-a-!@#$ relationship he has w/ Masque. 4) Wasting, wasting, wasting Clint/Hawkeye/Ronin.
But, there are elements that give me some hope:
1) The team setting off to help a member who's in trouble. The Avengers take care of their own, as has always been said. 2) A nice, focused objective (securing the proper succession of the Eye of Ag). 3) Teammates performing specialized tasks to further the mission ("Wolverine, get your nose over here"-- or some close paraphrase.) 4) A nice, big dangerous foe to pound on. And I have to admit that a big, gun-toting, hooded hell-mouth does have some visual kick, in spite of my professed ambivalence. 5) While I'm not crazy about Stephen Strange losing his title, as it were, I am kind of enjoying the "who's next in line?" thread, as it brings back lots of peripheral mystical figures in the MU. 6) I'd be happy if we could keep this artist.
It feels kind of like. . . there's an Avengers story trying to happen here. And I'm happy to see it. And honestly, I don't hate this team. I've always enjoyed Spidey's forays into the team in the past, and never bought the "he's just a natural loner" rationale. A "natural loner" doesn't support seventy bajilliion issues of Marvel Team-up, and find himself on comfortable speaking terms with 90% of the heroes in the Marvel Universe. I've never followed Dr Strange, outside of the Defenders, but I've loved seeing him in this team environment where he seems a little more equal to everyone else. On the whole, this is potentially a fine group of heroes-- I'm just desperate to see a little less glib wise-cracking, and a LOT more effort spent on depth of characterization.
But this is enough to string me along for a bit longer, to see if there's a tide turning. . .
HB
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Post by goldenfist on Jun 17, 2009 9:16:09 GMT -5
Clint gave the Hawkeye mantle to Kate Bishop so she's Hawkeye now, What do you want to her be called Purple Arrow. NEW AVENGERS #57 Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS Pencils & Cover by STUART IMMONEN It was bound to happen and now it has. The Hood loses his grip on the colorful criminals that make his empire. It’s a super-villain turf war and guess who is stuck in the middle? That’s right... the powerless New Avengers. Not to mention the powerless Dark Avengers (who guest star, btw.) Who will replace the Hood as kingpin of criminals?? i.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/sept09/77_new_avengers_57.jpg
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Post by squidboy on Jun 17, 2009 21:33:42 GMT -5
Clint gave the Hawkeye mantle to Kate Bishop so that means she's Haweye now? Sorry, but just because a hack writes it doesn't make it right. So yeah, Purple Arrow or anything else would be much better.
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Post by bobc on Jun 18, 2009 8:18:59 GMT -5
YOU GO SQUIDBOY!!!
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Post by von Bek on Jun 18, 2009 10:50:59 GMT -5
What do you want to her be called Purple Arrow. No, Hawkgirl. Oh no, that one is taken. Arrowette? Taken too... Stupid character that should never exist?
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Post by sharkar on Jun 18, 2009 11:21:05 GMT -5
Aubergine Archeress? ;D
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 18, 2009 16:03:44 GMT -5
Aubergine Archeress? ;D I suppose we should give the poor kid a chance though, shouldn't we? It's not her fault she got caught up in the aftershocks of bad plotting consequences. I've forgotten-- was she "Hawkeye" from the get-go, or did she have a different name? She's the rich girl who trained herself up to be an astonishing weapons/archery master, yes? (At, like, 16 years old--??) It's a given that her background/origin doesn't really even qualify her to hold Clint's quiver-- plus she literally doesn't have (and never will have) the body mass/muscle mass to become Hawk's equal as an archer. (His upper-body strength contributes mightily to what he can do w/ that bow.) NEVERTHELESS-- she's certainly deserving in her own right. There's no law that says there can only be one archer hero per universe. So, there has to be a good, reasonable code-name for her. Truly. Mostly, I'd think it would NOT want to be something feminized--- (Ha!''Archeress"--- that's terrific--!) Arrow? Ivanhoe? (ooh, I kinda like that, actually) Deadshot? Oh!Oh!-- what was Hawkeye's "secret" other teacher? It was "Trickshot", wasn't it? Oh, that would be perfect! Somebody get on the phone to those guys. . . HB
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Post by sharkar on Jun 19, 2009 11:00:02 GMT -5
;D Good one, HB! IRC, in an early appearance she was sporting Mockingbird's mask, so one of her comrades -- er-- mocked her by suggesting she call herself "Hawkingbird." Okay, here's a code name that I don't believe is being used today (in DC or Marvel superhero comics, that is ): Kate Bishop, I dub thee--Artemis!
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 19, 2009 11:24:41 GMT -5
;D Good one, HB! IRC, in an early appearance she was sporting Mockingbird's mask, so one of her comrades -- er-- mocked her by suggesting she call herself "Hawkingbird." Okay, here's a code name that I don't believe is being used today (in DC or Marvel superhero comics, that is ): Kate Bishop, I dub thee--Artemis! That's it, Sharkar! You've hit upon the bell-ringer! Greek Goddess of the hunt, yes? I mean, yes, I'm pretty sure she popped up in that Invading Olympus arc--- but there's no reason a human hero couldn't co-opt the name & identity. Artemis is one tough cookie, as portrayed in ancient literature. Not a girly-girl at all. And it would be nice to see the name itself be reclaimed as feminine-- HB
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Post by freedomfighter on Jun 19, 2009 15:20:22 GMT -5
Cause you can't keep repacking the Avengers with the same characters. ? Was this from the solicitation for the issue? Because to be honest, Bendis has had one of the most moribund and static Avengers lineups ever. Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider Man, Spider Woman (real and fake I suppose), Ronin/Echo have all been around for what 50 plus issues now? Sentry Cap and IM left for various plot reasons, but bendis has retained a very stable membership core for the most part...
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Post by goldenfist on Jun 22, 2009 10:55:04 GMT -5
Marvel Preview: New Avengers #54 A Sorcerer Supreme is chosen! Be witness to a very important chapter in Avengers history and the lore of Marvel magic! Plus, the Avengers finally have a big showdown with the Hood and not everyone walks away from it unharmed! Click on the link to see the previews www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=1132
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Post by goldenfist on Jul 22, 2009 10:00:39 GMT -5
NEW AVENGERS #58 Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS Pencils & Cover by STUART IMMONEN The Hood's control over his turf is challenged. Big time. And you won't believe by who. And you won't believe where the Hood is getting his newfound powers from. A big status quo change for the power brokers of the Marvel Universe. Guest-starring the Cabal. All that and guess which Avengers hook up this issue. And by hook up... we mean " hook up". i.newsarama.com/preview_images/marvelnew/oct09/73_new_avengers_58.jpg
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Post by goldenfist on Aug 8, 2009 20:29:49 GMT -5
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Post by goldenfist on Aug 18, 2009 12:44:35 GMT -5
NEW AVENGERS #59 Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS Pencils & Cover by STUART IMMONEN Aw, it’s been a long long time since Spider-Man and Spider-Woman had some alone time. Some nice quality time. Too bad this isn't that time. We'd tell you who they are fighting here but it'll spoil some big goings on in the issues you haven't read yet. From the dashing duo of Brian Bendis and Stuart Immonen! i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Nov09/76_new_avengers_59.jpg
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Post by betaraybill on Aug 21, 2009 21:59:54 GMT -5
Ivanhoe? (ooh, I kinda like that, actually) I'm not sure we want to have the word "Ho" anywhere near a female character's codename (unless she's Tigra... Thundercats HO!) Artemis sounds perfect. Or Artem-ish... she's SORT OF like the goddess of the hunt, eh. If it's Artemis, she'll have some big shoes to fill... bigger, even, than HAWKEYE's were that the case. Artemis Gordon is, perhaps, and always shall be, the greatest sidekick in all of fictional storytelling. The things that man could do with an eyepatch, cane and cotton, all to fool the shifty villains of the wild, wild west... simply genius. Imagine HIM on the Avengers! (along with DOCTOR Sam Beckett, MacGyver, Thomas Magnum and Kelly Garrett... a true superteam)
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Post by sharkar on Aug 24, 2009 10:12:08 GMT -5
If it's Artemis, she'll have some big shoes to fill... bigger, even, than HAWKEYE's were that the case. Artemis Gordon is, perhaps, and always shall be, the greatest sidekick in all of fictional storytelling. The things that man could do with an eyepatch, cane and cotton, all to fool the shifty villains of the wild, wild west... simply genius. LOL--even though the WWW character you're referring to is Artemus...not Artemis (different spelling/pronunciation, etymology...)
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Post by betaraybill on Aug 24, 2009 21:38:53 GMT -5
If it's Artemis, she'll have some big shoes to fill... bigger, even, than HAWKEYE's were that the case. Artemis Gordon is, perhaps, and always shall be, the greatest sidekick in all of fictional storytelling. The things that man could do with an eyepatch, cane and cotton, all to fool the shifty villains of the wild, wild west... simply genius. LOL--even though the WWW character you're referring to is Artemus...not Artemis (different spelling/pronunciation, etymology...) Blast! I knew I should've gone with the "Hawkeye Pierce" angle instead!
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 25, 2009 7:11:02 GMT -5
LOL--even though the WWW character you're referring to is Artemus...not Artemis (different spelling/pronunciation, etymology...) Blast! I knew I should've gone with the "Hawkeye Pierce" angle instead! Hey! Heyheyheyhey! "Pierce" is another perfect codename for her! That's incredibly apt. She's an archer, for pete's sake. And it has the terrific advantage of being both a "name" name, and a properly descriptive moniker. HB
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Post by sharkar on Aug 25, 2009 8:26:17 GMT -5
LOL--even though the WWW character you're referring to is Artemus...not Artemis (different spelling/pronunciation, etymology...) Blast! I knew I should've gone with the "Hawkeye Pierce" angle instead! LOL--again!! And an exalt for being such a good sport.
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Post by goldenfist on Sept 17, 2009 23:36:04 GMT -5
NEW AVENGERS #57 Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS Pencils & Cover by STUART IMMONEN It was bound to happen and now it has. The Hood loses his grip on the colorful criminals that make his empire. It’s a super-villain turf war and guess who is stuck in the middle? That’s right... the powerless New Avengers. Not to mention the powerless Dark Avengers (who guest star, btw.) Who will replace the Hood as kingpin of criminals?? Click on the link to see the previews www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=1318
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 19, 2009 12:35:35 GMT -5
And the trap negated their superpowers leaving only Mockingbird standing since she technically has none. Yeah, neither does Clint Barton... That made me wonder when I read it, because Mockingbird wonders about the exact same thing. Can it be a hint that this revived Clinton is not what we think (and he thinks) he is?
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Post by starfoxxx on Sept 20, 2009 10:56:40 GMT -5
I am soooo glad I've stopped buying anything by Bendis. It's alot more enjoyable. Why would anyone even think Bendis has any care or respect for what came before him, and especially the mess he leaves in his wake?
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 21, 2009 13:27:53 GMT -5
And the trap negated their superpowers leaving only Mockingbird standing since she technically has none. Yeah, neither does Clint Barton... That made me wonder when I read it, because Mockingbird wonders about the exact same thing. Can it be a hint that this revived Clinton is not what we think (and he thinks) he is? Omigod, Teammates-- I think you may have hit upon it. I can't believe I'm saying this, but this may be a moment of solid, legitimate story-telling rearing its head. Mind you, I've read almost nothing of the wave of Hawkeye/Clint/Ronin books that came out- nor the stuff w/ Bobbi's resurrection-- BUT---- is it possible that all of our bemoaning how hopelessly out of character he's been since returning is due to the fact that it is, indeed, NOT him?? Wow. Think about it further. He comes back from the dead for reasons that I, personally, have never had explained to me. He THINKS he's himself, clearly. He completely drops his heroic identity-- one that's more "him" than he himself is (hmm. A lot of syntax to sort through, there). During a battle, he makes an offhand reference to "all those years spent learning to use a sword"-- and we crow about what a stupid mistake that is. He seems to continue on a promiscuous trend that began right before he died-- and we have a LOT of trouble with that. He makes an outrageous declaration about the necessity of killing Norman Osborn-- which we (correctly) insist could NEVER have come from the mouth of Clint Barton. And now he's seriously effected by this power-nullifying techno-whatsis-- which simply shouldn't happen. And now Bobbi notices. I think these have been clues all along. In fact, I HOPE they're clues, 'cause I STILL want my real & proper HAWKEYE back sometime before I'm too old & poor to buy comic books any more! And I would much prefer its having been this ridiculous subterfuge all along, than to surrender to the fact that, yes, this favored character has just been this badly handled for the last couple of years. Yep, I believe the reality behind the facade has been gleaned--- HB
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Post by scottharris on Sept 21, 2009 14:14:39 GMT -5
The only issue I would have with this is that Clint has been written in character (more or less) by other writers since his return. If it's not Clint, though, who would it be? I'd love it if it were Swordsman, but he doesn't have any powers either. Who has had years of swords training but also super powers? And the person has to have been absent from the MU since Clint's return as well. Hmm. OMG. I think I know who Ronin really is. He's... ...THE NEEDLE!
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 21, 2009 15:59:14 GMT -5
Who the hell is that guy?? 0___o @hb: I hadn't thought so far ahead, but you could be right. It could possibly be someone who believes to be Clint but has some subtle differences, showing with moments of erratic (OOC) behaviour and now with his vulnerability to the Hood's power. In my opinion, he could end up being revealed a construct of Wanda's chaos magic, like her children used to be (Young Avengers' retcon notwithstanding). If his entire being is somewhat magic, it would make sense for him to be so affected by the powers negating thing. I must admit I'd be amazed if this is the explanation for his behaviour. A well-structured subplot developing over a number of issue with subtle hints... I could change my opinion of Bendis
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 21, 2009 19:20:07 GMT -5
The only issue I would have with this is that Clint has been written in character (more or less) by other writers since his return. If it's not Clint, though, who would it be? I'd love it if it were Swordsman, but he doesn't have any powers either. Who has had years of swords training but also super powers? And the person has to have been absent from the MU since Clint's return as well. Hmm. OMG. I think I know who Ronin really is. He's... ...THE NEEDLE! Hmm, indeed! This fellow's shoes, alone, seem to be some sort of unearthly superpower--! (Wow, where did he come from??) Y'know, I totally don't believe this is the case, but---- where's Dane Whitman, these days? Is he part of Excalibur, or something? Other than the obvious fact that he. . . well. . . would have to be somehow inhabiting or impersonating Clint's body-- he would kinda fit the situation. The obvious mastery of the sword. The enhanced magical aura which would respond vaguely like a superpower to the Hood's thingy. The *ahem* "womanizing" factor (in the Heroscape cards we've discussed elsewhere, he even has a "Loverboy Power" which is rather hilarious!). And, tellingly, the willingness to kill an overwhelming foe--- recall that Dane was the one that apparently killed the Supreme Intelligence during Galactic Storm, yes? Again, I completely don't believe this is the case. . . but isn't it funny how it fits? Almost eery. . . Now, watch it be nothing at all. No clues at all. Just the normal inconsistent, careless, disrespectful use of long-established characters. . . HB
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Post by spiderwasp on Sept 21, 2009 21:57:37 GMT -5
Omigod, Teammates-- I think you may have hit upon it. I can't believe I'm saying this, but this may be a moment of solid, legitimate story-telling rearing its head. Mind you, I've read almost nothing of the wave of Hawkeye/Clint/Ronin books that came out- nor the stuff w/ Bobbi's resurrection-- BUT---- is it possible that all of our bemoaning how hopelessly out of character he's been since returning is due to the fact that it is, indeed, NOT him?? HB Okay, I'll admit that this COULD be true and it would be better than having had Clint totally change his personality BUT I'm not going so far as to call it good storytelling. We just went through a whole long series of people being written out of character that was justified by the reveal that they were Skrulls. Turning right around and doing it again would not be clever but lazy. Yes, lazy. How much easier could writing be than simply writing every character the way you want to even though it has no bearing on that character's history just because after a year or two you are planning to say "I did that because it's not really him." Even lazier is repeating the process soon after. I hope this does turn out to be the case because lazy writing is better than sloppy writing but either way, I'm not impressed.
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Post by freedomfighter on Sept 21, 2009 21:59:33 GMT -5
The only issue I would have with this is that Clint has been written in character (more or less) by other writers since his return. If it's not Clint, though, who would it be? I'd love it if it were Swordsman, but he doesn't have any powers either. Who has had years of swords training but also super powers? And the person has to have been absent from the MU since Clint's return as well. Hmm. OMG. I think I know who Ronin really is. He's... ...THE NEEDLE! Hmm, indeed! This fellow's shoes, alone, seem to be some sort of unearthly superpower--! (Wow, where did he come from??) Y'know, I totally don't believe this is the case, but---- where's Dane Whitman, these days? Is he part of Excalibur, or something? Other than the obvious fact that he. . . well. . . would have to be somehow inhabiting or impersonating Clint's body-- he would kinda fit the situation. The obvious mastery of the sword. The enhanced magical aura which would respond vaguely like a superpower to the Hood's thingy. The *ahem* "womanizing" factor (in the Heroscape cards we've discussed elsewhere, he even has a "Loverboy Power" which is rather hilarious!). And, tellingly, the willingness to kill an overwhelming foe--- recall that Dane was the one that apparently killed the Supreme Intelligence during Galactic Storm, yes? Again, I completely don't believe this is the case. . . but isn't it funny how it fits? Almost eery. . . Now, watch it be nothing at all. No clues at all. Just the normal inconsistent, careless, disrespectful use of long-established characters. . . HB The Black Knight is part of the recently canceled Captain Britain and MI13. Shame as that book was really quite good. Well except the final storyline. The Britain vs. Dracula thing dragged on entirely too long... I doubt Bendis has done anything like you guys have guessed. My two thoughts are: a) he decided that Clint is a mutant because no one has that kind of skill otherwise. b) Bendis decided that Clint still has some Pym particles in his system and they made him susceptible to this "powers" bomb. (Have I mentioned how stupid a bomb that stops extranormal abilities on a genetic level sounds to me, anyway? It doesn't affect normal people, right? So then Superman wouldn't be affected because as far as Kryptonians go, he's completely normal. It wouldn't affect Cap because he's simply genetically ideal, not extranormal...a telepathic attack just makes more sense. make people forget how to do things and it doesn't matter what powers they have. Sorry this is just one of those plot devices that bugs me to no end.)
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Post by scottharris on Sept 21, 2009 23:35:07 GMT -5
Gosh, guys! I can't believe you don't remember the Needle. He's fought the Avengers on multiple occasions.
Of course, those were also some of the lamest Avengers comics ever, but that's not the Needle's fault!
(For those who still don't remember him, he's a part of the Night Shift, and he fought the West Coast Avengers a couple different times such as in WCA #40 and #76-79; they also appeared in Solo Avengers and in several issues of Captain America). And they just showed up in, er, Marvel Zombies 4 earlier this year (not sure whether to thank or curse the internet for telling me that).
...THE NEEDLE!!!!
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Post by humanbelly on Sept 22, 2009 7:12:12 GMT -5
Omigod, Teammates-- I think you may have hit upon it. I can't believe I'm saying this, but this may be a moment of solid, legitimate story-telling rearing its head. Mind you, I've read almost nothing of the wave of Hawkeye/Clint/Ronin books that came out- nor the stuff w/ Bobbi's resurrection-- BUT---- is it possible that all of our bemoaning how hopelessly out of character he's been since returning is due to the fact that it is, indeed, NOT him?? HB Okay, I'll admit that this COULD be true and it would be better than having had Clint totally change his personality BUT I'm not going so far as to call it good storytelling. We just went through a whole long series of people being written out of character that was justified by the reveal that they were Skrulls. Turning right around and doing it again would not be clever but lazy. Yes, lazy. How much easier could writing be than simply writing every character the way you want to even though it has no bearing on that character's history just because after a year or two you are planning to say "I did that because it's not really him." Even lazier is repeating the process soon after. I hope this does turn out to be the case because lazy writing is better than sloppy writing but either way, I'm not impressed. Yes, we/I may indeed be trying to impose forethought and proper storytelling structure into a situation where it really isn't there. Maybe it's just more attractive here for this "detective" element on our part. . . Geeze- what if Clint's a leftover Skrull?? Man, that's every lazy, poor, careless choice wrapped up into one! HB
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